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  #1  
Old 08-07-2022, 6:15 PM
Hoons Hoons is offline
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Default Ladder test and hornady OAL gauge

Should I do the ladder test first, use the best load and further dial it in using the hornady overall case length gauge or is it typically done the other way around?
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  #2  
Old 08-07-2022, 6:35 PM
baih777 baih777 is offline
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Use the OAL.guage first.
That will give you the max. Length.
Measure each brand of bullet you might use.
And measure your magazine also to make sure you dont load the bullet too long.
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Old 08-08-2022, 7:49 AM
kcstott kcstott is offline
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Depending on how far you have gotten already. Find your current max overall length for the chamber or magazine if using one and feeding from it. Tune your load at a fixed sheeting depth. Get the best es/sd you can then work on tuning sheeting depth to tune group size.

My load work up procedure for FClass matches.

Precision reloading guide

Last edited by kcstott; 08-08-2022 at 7:55 AM..
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  #4  
Old 08-10-2022, 12:23 AM
LynnJr LynnJr is offline
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I only use the ladder test to find my powder charge. Once you find the powder charge then adjust the seating depth and shoot 3 shot groups.
I always start with the longest seating depth and only move in one direction.
So if your gun has a magazine that would be your longest length.
If your gun is a single shot target rifle you would start at the longest length that will still allow the bolt to close.
If your gun is a dual purpose gun like a varmint rifle you do both of the above.
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  #5  
Old 08-10-2022, 7:33 AM
divingin divingin is offline
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I work on charge first, then seating depth, as I feel it's easier to make gross changes (those that make a large difference in accuracy) with charges rather than seating.

Some people work the other way.
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  #6  
Old 08-10-2022, 8:12 AM
fguffey fguffey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoons View Post
Should I do the ladder test first, use the best load and further dial it in using the hornady overall case length gauge or is it typically done the other way around?
I measure the length of the chamber from the beginning of the rifling to the bolt face. I measure the length of the chamber from the datum to the bolt face.
With those two measurements I can start reloading.

I am not infatuated with 'bullet off the land', I want my bullets to have a jump/running start. The running start gets the bullet past the beginning of the rifling with little rise in pressure.

Past the beginning of the rifling: A bullet setting at the rifling cannot get past the beginning of the rifling until pressure behind the bullet is high enough.

F. Guffey
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  #7  
Old 08-10-2022, 4:05 PM
LynnJr LynnJr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
I measure the length of the chamber from the beginning of the rifling to the bolt face. I measure the length of the chamber from the datum to the bolt face.
With those two measurements I can start reloading.

I am not infatuated with 'bullet off the land', I want my bullets to have a jump/running start. The running start gets the bullet past the beginning of the rifling with little rise in pressure.

Past the beginning of the rifling: A bullet setting at the rifling cannot get past the beginning of the rifling until pressure behind the bullet is high enough.

F. Guffey

He most likely doesnt know why starting at the lands is best.
If you jump bullets they release as soon as the case builds enough pressure to overcome the necks grip on the bullet. If your not turning necks like most reloaders the variation will release the bullets over a wide range of pressure resulting in large variations in your loads extreme spread.
If you seat into the lands the old wives tale is your gun will have extremely high pressure and blow up. The good folks at Berger Bullets tested out this and found you can expect a maximum of 3000 psi and that that difference wont blow anything up.
What it will do is allow for pressure to build before the bullet starts moving and giving you a much better extreme spread.
You can also look for a shooter known as David Tubb and see what he has tő say about bullet seating in his video about annealing brass.
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  #8  
Old 08-10-2022, 5:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
He most likely doesnt know why starting at the lands is best.
If you jump bullets they release as soon as the case builds enough pressure to overcome the necks grip on the bullet. If your not turning necks like most reloaders the variation will release the bullets over a wide range of pressure resulting in large variations in your loads extreme spread.
If you seat into the lands the old wives tale is your gun will have extremely high pressure and blow up. The good folks at Berger Bullets tested out this and found you can expect a maximum of 3000 psi and that that difference wont blow anything up.
What it will do is allow for pressure to build before the bullet starts moving and giving you a much better extreme spread.
You can also look for a shooter known as David Tubb and see what he has tő say about bullet seating in his video about annealing brass.

David Tubb is an interesting guy. Load work ups in .5 grain steps. No annealing, no neck turning, and .015" jam in most cases. and he cleans targets like it's nothing and gets very low SD's when he does post the data.
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  #9  
Old 08-10-2022, 6:16 PM
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BrassCase BrassCase is offline
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Any opinions on the Eric Cortina videos for long range shooting?
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  #10  
Old 08-10-2022, 6:51 PM
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Originally Posted by BrassCase View Post
Any opinions on the Eric Cortina videos for long range shooting?
He has solid data. I know two individuals that shoot with him one of which is also a US rifle team member
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  #11  
Old 08-12-2022, 8:36 AM
LynnJr LynnJr is offline
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“One thing that IS important is that the bullet be precisely seated against the lands. T.J. Jackson reported this fact in the May 1987 issue of Precision Shooting. In a letter to the Editor, T.J. wrote, “… in all our testing in that Houston warehouse … and the dozens and dozens of groups that Virgil King shot in there ‘in the zeroes’… he NEVER fired a single official screamer group when he was ‘jumping’ bullets. All his best groups were always seated into the lands, or at the very least … touching the lands.” – Secrets of The Houston Warehouse, Precision Shooting Magazine
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  #12  
Old 08-12-2022, 1:14 PM
fguffey fguffey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrassCase View Post
Any opinions on the Eric Cortina videos for long range shooting?
I am wondering if this forum allows opinions that are fair and objective. And then there are those that 'just do not understand' and those that are so confused.

I have to assume a reloader that is reading an opinion is familiar with the operation of a press and die.

And then I would like to have the luxury of disagreeing.

F. Guffey
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Old 08-13-2022, 8:43 AM
LynnJr LynnJr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
I am wondering if this forum allows opinions that are fair and objective. And then there are those that 'just do not understand' and those that are so confused.

I have to assume a reloader that is reading an opinion is familiar with the operation of a press and die.

And then I would like to have the luxury of disagreeing.

F. Guffey
This forum is more than fair and objective. It allows shooters who know how to win national level competitions to post as well as those just getting into reloading.

The forum uses mostly modern up to date terminology which confuses the elderly generation just like smartphones and texting but everyone can post.
If your the type that just wants to argue ratchets over pawls you might not get alot of replies.
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  #14  
Old 08-14-2022, 10:35 AM
kcstott kcstott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
“One thing that IS important is that the bullet be precisely seated against the lands. T.J. Jackson reported this fact in the May 1987 issue of Precision Shooting. In a letter to the Editor, T.J. wrote, “… in all our testing in that Houston warehouse … and the dozens and dozens of groups that Virgil King shot in there ‘in the zeroes’… he NEVER fired a single official screamer group when he was ‘jumping’ bullets. All his best groups were always seated into the lands, or at the very least … touching the lands.” – Secrets of The Houston Warehouse, Precision Shooting Magazine
While I agree with jamming being just about the best way to tune seating depth.
That doesn’t hold true for national match nor high power shooting. The reason is you can not have a cartridge that jams in a high power, CMP, and other matches require a ECI to be inserted. If a cease fire is called you have to unload and insert your ECI and step off the firing line. You can’t do that with a jammed bullet. So we F class shooters look for seating nodes. We case depthes in .002” steps till we see groups tighten up significantly then shoot .001” over and under that to be sure of node location.
With that depth recorded we know we can seat longer in the future to stay on the node.
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  #15  
Old 08-16-2022, 1:33 AM
LynnJr LynnJr is offline
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That was a benchrest article dealing with the worlds most accurate rifles.
Other classifications suffer accuracy due to the nature of the game
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  #16  
Old 08-16-2022, 6:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
And then there are those that 'just do not understand' and those that are so confused.
Isn't that, in your not-so-humble opinion, everyone except you?


Quote:
I have to assume a reloader that is reading an opinion is familiar with the operation of a press and die.
You never have before.
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  #17  
Old 08-16-2022, 8:49 AM
kcstott kcstott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
That was a benchrest article dealing with the worlds most accurate rifles.
Other classifications suffer accuracy due to the nature of the game
There have been multiple national and world records set in bench rest by shooters not seating on or in the lands.
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  #18  
Old 08-17-2022, 6:13 AM
LynnJr LynnJr is offline
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They would have shot even smaller with the correct seating depth
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  #19  
Old 08-17-2022, 9:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
They would have shot even smaller with the correct seating depth
Maybe, maybe not. Nothing is until it’s done. The records speak for themselves.
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