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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #121  
Old 01-18-2024, 4:06 PM
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listed 7.5 pounds. If you keep the scope reasonable in weight, scout rifle wise you have possibly a very good pseudo scout.

Scout rifle aside, on paper this looks like a very good general purpose or practical rifle.

Last edited by 1859sharps; 01-18-2024 at 4:10 PM..
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  #122  
Old 01-18-2024, 10:14 PM
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Never really bought into the concept. Col. Jeff Cooper revolutionized pistol gun fighting. No question. But this rifle always seemed pretty pointless to me. Then again, the AR15 wasn't what it is today. We did not have flat top receivers, mlok rails, LPVOs, etc. You certainly were not going to see a 16" barreled AR10 back then. Even now, the AR10 is still too heavy for most of us even with a shorter barrel to run around Africa hunting lions with it. So I get the need/want/desire for it. I am just not sure it did what was wanted/hoped for. Not just this one, but the entire concept fell flat IMHO. Every role I would use this rifle for, there is something else that would do the job better. Especially since I am never going on Safari. For the survival stuff, which many feel or felt this rifle would be ideal for...I would much rather have a modern AR15. Unlike back when the concept came about, 223 and 556 are going to be the more readily available round. If you had to scrounge for resources you'd probably have more luck. That just wasn't the case back in the day. Plus nowadays few rifles are lighter and more maneuverable than the AR15. Weight being a key principle in this rifles design. That said, to each their own man. I LOVE that we have a wide variety of rifles out there to choose from. Go nuts.

Last edited by tacticalcity; 01-18-2024 at 10:20 PM..
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  #123  
Old 01-18-2024, 11:00 PM
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Never really bought into the concept./// Every role I would use this rifle for, there is something else that would do the job better.
That was the point. It was supposed to be a single rifle that could meet the bare minimum of all of the jobs adequately, but not necessarily best something made as job-specific that would have one job to do better than it could.

However, the one job that was never discussed was 'sniper' of anything.

There were numerous articles and interviews of Jeff Cooper's comments and ideology about it at the time, and I think I read every single one contemporaneously - however the word 'sniper' never came up, and that's this Garand Thumb social-influencer poptart showing his pretentious numbskull side.

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  #124  
Old 01-18-2024, 11:25 PM
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That was the point. It was supposed to be a single rifle that could meet the bare minimum of all of the jobs adequately, but not necessarily best something made as job-specific that would have one job to do better than it could.

However, the one job that was never discussed was 'sniper' of anything.

There were numerous articles and interviews of Jeff Cooper's comments and ideology about it at the time, and I think I read every single one contemporaneously - however the word 'sniper' never came up, and that's this Garand Thumb social-influencer poptart showing his pretentious numbskull side.

---
I think you missed my point. I also think you misunderstood what Garand Thumb was saying as well. More on that later. What I was saying is that the one rifle that does all those things better, is almost always the modern AR15. And for most if not all of them it does them superbly well. Furthermore, when looking at the very reasoning behind the choices Cooper made when designing this rifle, those are all served better by the modern AR15 as well. Granted, at the time, the modern AR15 did not exist. What fans of the Scout overlook is that for each decision in the design process behind the concept conditions have since changed. From what is the most commonly available ammunition, to just how light you can make a reliable and accurate semi-automatic rifle now as compared to then. The reasoning was sound. The conclusions are, well not wrong as much as outdated.

What Garand Thumb half gets wrong was its intended purpose. It was not a safari rifle. Regardless of where the idea was born. It is not a sniper rifle, but you misunderstood him on that point. That's not what he was really trying to say. I will expand on that in the next paragraph. The scout was meant to be a do-it-all survival rifle from a time when semi-automatic rifles were heavy, awkward, and unwieldy. From an era when bigger was better and .308 Win was everywhere and 223 Win was still relatively new, unproven, and not likely to be easy to find during a period of civil unrest. Times have changed. None of those things are true. The modern AR15 can and does come in an extremely lightweight, compact, accurate package in an extremely readily available and effective cartridge. It is the true "practical rifle" that solves all the problems Cooper identified with the rifles of his day. Just in a totally different way than he envisioned at the time.

What you are wrong about is whether or not Garand Thumb thinks the Scout was supposed to be a sniper rifle. He knows that was not what Cooper intended. However, to pretty much everyone but a few old timers like us...this is a sniper rifle. Because their experience with it is from an iconic video game in which it was depicted as a superb sniper rifle. That is why he mentions sniping. Not because that is what it was designed for. But because that is how it has been presented to most of the people who even know what it is. He was explaining to that audience, that the Scout is not what they think it is.

Last edited by tacticalcity; 01-18-2024 at 11:49 PM..
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  #125  
Old 01-19-2024, 11:37 AM
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More on that later. What I was saying is that the one rifle that does all those things better, is almost always the modern AR15.
Actually no. The AR is not better in every way to what Cooper was going for. Can you hunt elk with an AR? No. Can you take the AR everywhere a rifle is allowed? No. Just a couple of examples of where the AR falls flat on its face.

AR is a great rifle, but it is not by any stretch a general-purpose rifle.

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Furthermore, when looking at the very reasoning behind the choices Cooper made when designing this rifle, those are all served better by the modern AR15 as well.
Again, no. I think you need to go study up on what Cooper was actually going for.

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Originally Posted by tacticalcity View Post
What fans of the Scout overlook is that for each decision in the design process behind the concept conditions have since changed.
Nothing has changed. People still hunt. People still need a rifle for protection. People still like to plink/target practice. The rifle Cooper envisioned would be plenty adequate for any of those 3 categories of needs.


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It was not a safari rifle.
Really? You sure about that? While not a specialized safari rifle, the Scout Rifle has been used in Africa many times and proven itself a suitable rifle for taking game in Africa over and over and over and over.

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Originally Posted by tacticalcity View Post
The scout was meant to be a do-it-all survival rifle from a time when semi-automatic rifles were heavy, awkward, and unwieldy. From an era when bigger was better and .308 Win was everywhere and 223 Win was still relatively new, unproven, and not likely to be easy to find during a period of civil unrest. Times have changed. None of those things are true. The modern AR15 can and does come in an extremely lightweight, compact, accurate package in an extremely readily available and effective cartridge. It is the true "practical rifle" that solves all the problems Cooper identified with the rifles of his day. Just in a totally different way than he envisioned at the time.
No, and no and no....

The Scout is NOT a "do all survival rifle". It is a general-purpose rifle (aka GPR). GPRs a built to handle any task with in the 3 broad non specialized areas that one uses a rifle for. Hunting, protection, other (example of other, informal plinking). Specialized would be sniper rifle, combat rifle, target rifle for specific competition (PRS, 3gun, Highpower etc), elephant gun and so on.

It was never meant to be the best at any of the tasks it was envisioned for. In order to be good enough at them all, compromises have to be made, so it will never be the best rifle for any one task, but it will be MORE than adequate for the tasks it was built to handle.

I don't know how old you are, but .223 has never been scarce in my half century plus of life. So not sure what you are talking about it having been "new", "unproven" etc. none of that is true by the time Cooper was formulating the Scout Rifle concept. He didn't choose the .223 (his biases aside) because the .223 can't take down a 500 pound target with a "single decisive blow" (his words) nor take on a 1000 pound target.

The AR is a great rifle. In some configurations it makes an awesome iron sighted target rifle (20 inch A2 models), in the "M4" style it makes a great protection rifle. In both these narrow categories (Coopers opinion aside), they make better choices given a choice and fore knowledge of the need than the Scout. But they do not make better replacements for what the Scout Rifle concept achieves.

Comparing the AR15 and Scout Rifles is like trying to compare apples and oranges.

While Cooper drew inspiration to some degree for the Scout from times past, it is actually a very modern design, and very relevant applications even today, and its influence on rifle design is undeniable. Just look at the numbers of short, light weight bolt action rifles available to use today. More specialized in their application and often heavier than Cooper would have wanted in a Scout, but the influence of "light, short, handy across the industry is undeniable.

While the Scout concept might not be for "you", the reasoning behind it is still alive and well and relevant today as it was in 1984 for when Cooper wrote the gun digest essay.
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  #126  
Old 01-19-2024, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by tacticalcity View Post
I think you missed my point. I also think you misunderstood what Garand Thumb was saying as well. More on that later. What I was saying is that the one rifle that does all those things better, is almost always the modern AR15. And for most if not all of them it does them superbly well. Furthermore, when looking at the very reasoning behind the choices Cooper made when designing this rifle, those are all served better by the modern AR15 as well. Granted, at the time, the modern AR15 did not exist. What fans of the Scout overlook is that for each decision in the design process behind the concept conditions have since changed. From what is the most commonly available ammunition, to just how light you can make a reliable and accurate semi-automatic rifle now as compared to then. The reasoning was sound. The conclusions are, well not wrong as much as outdated.

What Garand Thumb half gets wrong was its intended purpose. It was not a safari rifle. Regardless of where the idea was born. It is not a sniper rifle, but you misunderstood him on that point. That's not what he was really trying to say. I will expand on that in the next paragraph. The scout was meant to be a do-it-all survival rifle from a time when semi-automatic rifles were heavy, awkward, and unwieldy. From an era when bigger was better and .308 Win was everywhere and 223 Win was still relatively new, unproven, and not likely to be easy to find during a period of civil unrest. Times have changed. None of those things are true. The modern AR15 can and does come in an extremely lightweight, compact, accurate package in an extremely readily available and effective cartridge. It is the true "practical rifle" that solves all the problems Cooper identified with the rifles of his day. Just in a totally different way than he envisioned at the time.

What you are wrong about is whether or not Garand Thumb thinks the Scout was supposed to be a sniper rifle. He knows that was not what Cooper intended.

However, to pretty much everyone but a few old timers like us...this is a sniper rifle.

Because their experience with it is from an iconic video game in which it was depicted as a superb sniper rifle. That is why he mentions sniping. Not because that is what it was designed for. But because that is how it has been presented to most of the people who even know what it is. He was explaining to that audience, that the Scout is not what they think it is.
Nope on the AR15. Because it's not a bolt action. Part of the concern to be included as a Scout rifle is simplicity of operation, a minimum of parts, and a reduction in points of failure (certainly which the AR15 cannot claim).

And correct, as an 'old timer' I certainly never would conflate it with a sniper rifle (my SSG-69 is an old timer too, far preceding Cooper's Scout concept, and certainly is a 'sniper rifle, so I would never mistke them for each other) and have NEVER seen the Scout ever presented or marketed to anyone at any time, anywhere, as a 'sniper' anything by Steyr, Ruger, Springfield, Remington, Howa, or anyone else.

Video games, Anime, Hollywood, Wikipedia, Paul Koretz, and Everytown do not sniper rifles make or assign a purpose. Regardless of the Gen-Z collectivism of stupidity, no matter the sniper inference, it's important to slap back that nonsense wherever it appears. Terms matter.

So as you noted, it only then enters into the equation when someone like the douchiest of YouTube gun reviewers (or his fan-base) reinforce the misinterpretation of it as a sniper rifle merely because some kid in Japan or a high-rise in New York, who designs video games, thinks it 'looks' like what he thinks a sniper-rifle looks like - no different than Leftists calling any assortment of various pedestrian guns 'Assault Rifles' and 'military-style'.

But who knows - in an upside world where a boy can be a girl just by thinking it, and an individual can be a 'they' just by demanding it, I suppose a common field/ranch rifle can be a 'sniper rifle' just by a video game slating it as one - lest anyone actually hunt snipe with it.

Whoever would have thought such a simple concept in firearm frugality and pragmatic application would lead to so much misbegotten variety of misinterpretation and a polarizing spectrum in ambiguity of nomenclature?

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  #127  
Old 01-19-2024, 2:14 PM
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What I was saying is that the one rifle that does all those things better, is almost always the modern AR15
A modern ar15 is not so great at shooting 308. Amongst many other things. It?s a very good purpose built tool, designed to a very specific set of criteria. And if it?s the best general purpose tool for your criteria, that?s great. But it wasn?t for cooper, or other fans of the scout rifle concept.

I don?t particularly care for scout rifles for the record, although I don?t dislike them either. Fanboying for ar15s or scout rifles or anything else seems to be limiting your thinking far too much. Besides, everyone knows shotguns are the real best general purpose firearm anyways.
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  #128  
Old 01-19-2024, 2:51 PM
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Limiting thinking? Like saying "Ooh, I got me a .308 scout rifle", which does most things in mediocre fashion. Take it to Africa on safari? You're hunting some small critters. Any kind of predator or animal more than 200 pounds, and it's just a stunt. Take the right gun for the job. Hunting out west or in TX where 400 yards isn't unusual? Leave the .308 at home and take a .243, 6.5 CM, or even a .270.

Scout rifle fanboys love to spend $1500+ so they can say they have 1 rifle that does everything. That's dumb when you can buy 3 rifles for the same money, each better suited for the task than a scout rifle.
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  #129  
Old 01-19-2024, 5:45 PM
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Again, I?m not a particular fan of scout rifles. I don?t own one, and have no interest in purchasing one. I can see why some would find it interesting and others wouldn?t. I?m simply suggesting that making blanket statements about the superiority or supreme usefulness of a particular platform aren?t that interesting or beneficial. It says more about the person making the statement and their interests and priorities than anything else. I don?t really get what compels someone to go into a discussion about scout rifles to simp for ar15s; do people think that somehow scout rifle fans have missed that ar15s exist?

I will say carrying 3 $500 rifles sounds unpleasant. One $1500 rifle is definitely easier on the shoulder. Is having one mediocre tool better than 3 more specialized tools? To some yes and others no. Even the same person would likely make different choices in different situations.

And at 400 yards, 6.5 creedmore or 243 will have about 10% less drop using appropriate and comparable bullets to 308 (unless you?re cherry picking loads to prove a point). 270 a little better than either of those at that range. Either way you need to know your holds or dial it in, there?s going to be a couple feet of drop regardless. The difference isn?t different enough to fundamentally change what you?re doing or how you?re approaching it.
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  #130  
Old 01-19-2024, 6:08 PM
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Not a single response to my posts actually read any of my posts all the way through. I already rebutted the points you make in those posts. If you had just read a little further.

Cooper was at heart, a gunfighter. Yes he liked to hunt. But he approached everything from the perspective of how best to win a gunfight. Including the design of the Scout rifle. A primary driving factor behind the design was to build the ideal rifle with make it through a major catastrophe or period of civil unrest. Availability of ammo, availability of parts, and the (perceived) lack of reliability of the chosen military and police of the day were all major factors in his design choices. Taking down an Elk was I admit a bonus. But was not, I repeat, not why .308 ammo was chosen. It was chosen because it was easy to source at the time and if some cataclysmic even happened at that time would be easiest to source despite the inevitable collapse of the economy however short or long term.

Now that we figured out the problem with the M16 during Vietnam was been counters using the wrong gunpowder in the ammunition to save money, and we have decades worth of success using the modern-day AR the qualms about its reliability are gone. Not that we have flat top receivers they are optics ready. Now that they are the most common rifle sold and sold to the general public in droves, replacement parts are everywhere. More so than any other type of rifle in America. So yes, EVERYTHING has changed between then and now that led to Cooper even feeling he needed to come up with this design.

Is the AR15 a good hunting rifle? Not for large game. But for anything smaller than a person...yes. Is it the best option for a firefight? Absolutely. Will it break down on you and constantly need repair like once thought? No. If it does will it be the easiest gun to repair and find replacement parts for? Yes. Is it incredibly light weight allowing you to not only carry it but all your other survival gear along with plenty of ammunition should you need to bug out? Absolutely.

Almost everything the scout rifle does remotely passable the AR15 excels at. Except taking down an Elk.

Last edited by tacticalcity; 01-19-2024 at 6:37 PM..
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  #131  
Old 01-19-2024, 6:19 PM
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A modern ar15 is not so great at shooting 308. Amongst many other things. It?s a very good purpose built tool, designed to a very specific set of criteria. And if it?s the best general purpose tool for your criteria, that?s great. But it wasn?t for cooper, or other fans of the scout rifle concept.

I don?t particularly care for scout rifles for the record, although I don?t dislike them either. Fanboying for ar15s or scout rifles or anything else seems to be limiting your thinking far too much. Besides, everyone knows shotguns are the real best general purpose firearm anyways.
An AR15 cannot shoot 308 at all. But I know what you mean. I am not advocating that an AR10 is a better survival rifle than a scout or meets the needs the scout was intended for. It does not. It's actually a major reason for coming up with the concept in the firts place. It's heavy, big, clunky, and even now they tend to be very temperamental compared to a modern AR15.

I am saying if the AR15, and gun culture, and the marketplace were back then what they are today...Cooper would not even be a fan of the Scout rifle. He was all about winning the gunfight. Nobody, and I mean nobody who has shot both a scout rifle and an AR15 thinks the scout is ever going to win a gunfight.

Last edited by tacticalcity; 01-19-2024 at 6:40 PM..
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  #132  
Old 01-19-2024, 8:41 PM
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I am saying if the AR15, and gun culture, and the marketplace were back then what they are today...Cooper would not even be a fan of the Scout rifle. He was all about winning the gunfight. Nobody, and I mean nobody who has shot both a scout rifle and an AR15 thinks the scout is ever going to win a gunfight.

I believe you are mistaken here. Cooper believed in first-round hits. He would relish the idea of being fired at wildly, shots going everywhere but on target. Then he, with one shot, has ended the threat from the shooter who erroneously believes that his volume of fire will save the day.
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  #133  
Old 01-19-2024, 9:52 PM
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Nobody, and I mean nobody who has shot both a scout rifle and an AR15 thinks the scout is ever going to win a gunfight.
My friend, would you please expand on that a bit, and also tell us your experiences in armed conflict? I am interested in how you arrived at that conclusion.
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  #134  
Old 01-19-2024, 10:47 PM
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Not a single response to my posts actually read any of my posts all the way through. I already rebutted the points you make in those posts. If you had just read a little further.

Cooper was at heart, a gunfighter. Yes he liked to hunt. But he approached everything from the perspective of how best to win a gunfight. Including the design of the Scout rifle. A primary driving factor behind the design was to build the ideal rifle with make it through a major catastrophe or period of civil unrest.

Availability of ammo, availability of parts, and the (perceived) lack of reliability of the chosen military and police of the day were all major factors in his design choices. Taking down an Elk was I admit a bonus. But was not, I repeat, not why .308 ammo was chosen. It was chosen because it was easy to source at the time and if some cataclysmic even happened at that time would be easiest to source despite the inevitable collapse of the economy however short or long term. WRONG. At the time, 5.56x45 was just as prevalent and available. He chose it as purposed based.


Now that we figured out the problem with the M16 during Vietnam was been counters using the wrong gunpowder in the ammunition to save money, and we have decades worth of success using the modern-day AR the qualms about its reliability are gone. Not that we have flat top receivers they are optics ready. Now that they are the most common rifle sold and sold to the general public in droves, replacement parts are everywhere. More so than any other type of rifle in America. So yes, EVERYTHING has changed between then and now that led to Cooper even feeling he needed to come up with this design.

Is the AR15 a good hunting rifle? Not for large game. But for anything smaller than a person...yes. Is it the best option for a firefight? Absolutely. Will it break down on you and constantly need repair like once thought? No. If it does will it be the easiest gun to repair and find replacement parts for? Yes. (IN THE FIELD? ABSOLUTELY NOT!! You want something that's not going to need much maintenance in the first place. )

Is it incredibly light weight allowing you to not only carry it but all your other survival gear along with plenty of ammunition should you need to bug out? Absolutely.

Almost everything the scout rifle does remotely passable the AR15 excels at. Except taking down an Elk.

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Originally Posted by tacticalcity View Post
I am saying if the AR15, and gun culture, and the marketplace were back then what they are today...Cooper would not even be a fan of the Scout rifle. He was all about winning the gunfight. Nobody, and I mean nobody who has shot both a scout rifle and an AR15 thinks the scout is ever going to win a gunfight.
First off, Cooper was very much around when the modern reliable variants of the AR15 was around, and he did NOT suggest an AR15 for use as Scout rifle when he easily and readily could have. That's just fact and historical truth.

You've got Cooper balled up as solely dedicating everything to a gunfight and that simply wasn't the case here. He was pragmatic in describing what the Scout rifle should be, and it was specifically for the individual that was in the role of a SCOUT.

You are making this about a rifle vs. rifle for single purpose of combat, rather than the concept of the rifle which is stated by the very name it has been given after the role for which it was named. As a 'SCOUT' rifle; the rifle is intended to meet the role and needs of a SCOUT - not for the scout to adapt to a rifle, nor being given a rifle to fit the role of a gunfight or law-enforcement. Jeff Cooper himself opined it was not intended for combat/gunfight scenarios.

It's no different than you would not expect to use a typical safari scout vehicle or reconnaissance vehicle (scout) for a role where you needed a hauler or a tank.

Cooper's application most intended and conveyed a rifle for a safari scout, range scout, mapping scout, or hunting scout, and even civil-unrest scout that needed a rifle for both food and defense - not necessarily a military scout sent out to collect data or information on enemy positions or for combat as in fighting as a soldier in a civil-war. And he certainly did not intend it for fire-fights and strategic combat scenarios at all. Completely different application, and yet an AR15 would still not be the best option for a military scout.

If you're a safari scout, whether in Yosemite or Zambia, you had better have something lithe enough to carry all day, be simple for minimal chance of failure, and be hard-hitting enough to take down man or beast (and not just coyotes) - beast meaning a charging Bison, Moose, Cape Buffalo, or Lion.

And the same could be said that you will need it for this, AS WELL AS for defense against poachers, drug-lords/growers, and for defense in civil-unrest scenarios TOO. He wasn't opposed to semi-auto, but he was clear it should be at least .308 Winchester or greater.

The Scout rifle as we know it would still be better for that purpose than an AR15 as hard-hitting, long-range, WHILE imbibing simplicity, minimal number of parts to go wrong, combined with moderate accuracy (better than an AR15, but not 'sniper rifle' dedicated) as more applicable and useful than an AR15.

Could an AR15 be used? Sure, and it's not like someone would turn that down, but it wasn't the concept - and if Cooper was a live today, no, I do not think he would suggest an AR15 over his original idea for it. And if he did, he would certainly suggest an AR10/DPMS/.308 option instead.

---

Some articles on these points, and they also touch on the fact that the AR10/DPMS .308 would be the only acceptable AR as a Scout rifle.

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...rifle-concept/

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...cept-obsolete/

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...-ar-be-a-scout

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_rifle



Quote:
Cooper's scout-rifle concept was largely influenced by the exploits of the scout Burnham in the Western United States and Africa and as such it is best suited to a man operating either alone or in a two or three man team.[4]

"The general-purpose rifle will do equally well for all but specialized hunting, as well as for fighting; thus it must be powerful enough to kill any living target of reasonable size. If you insist upon a definition of 'reasonable size', let us introduce an arbitrary mass figure of about 1,000 pounds (454 kilograms)


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The Scout Rifle Defined

In summary, Cooper defined a Scout Rifle as weighing 6.6 pounds or less, including sling and optical sight. No more than a meter long, with a 19-inch barrel, and chambered for the .308 Winchester. He also stipulated auxiliary ghost ring sights, a low-power, forward-mounted optical sight, and that the rifle be very friendly, easy to carry, fast to get on target, and well configured to allow for excellent marksmanship from field shooting positions.

Cooper felt that the optimum general-purpose rifle should be the same no matter the geographic location where it might be employed. He thought it should provide an effective hunting arm for most animals on earth. And that it should serve equally well for survival in unique situations where one man may be operating remotely and alone. However, he did not feel it should be a battle rifle for prolonged engagements or target rich environments.


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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?

Last edited by The Gleam; 01-19-2024 at 11:44 PM..
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  #135  
Old 01-20-2024, 10:23 AM
1859sharps 1859sharps is offline
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
Scout rifle fanboys love to spend $1500+ so they can say they have 1 rifle that does everything. That's dumb when you can buy 3 rifles for the same money, each better suited for the task than a scout rifle.
This is most definitely a personal opinion and really is completely irrelevant to if the Scout concept works, has merit etc.

Two counter thoughts to your comment

1. I challenge you to show me 3 rifles that can be bought for the cost of a Steyr scout rifle and that can objectively do their jobs better than the Steyr.

It is possible to buy 3 rifles that are each designed to do a specific task better than the Steyer, just not for the same money as it takes to acquire a Steyr.


2. I went down this path, get a rifle for different interests/uses. For me, it turned out to NOT be an advantage over a GPR, either of the type Scout Rifle or of some other design.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tacticalcity View Post
I am saying if the AR15, and gun culture, and the marketplace were back then what they are today...Cooper would not even be a fan of the Scout rifle. He was all about winning the gunfight. Nobody, and I mean nobody who has shot both a scout rifle and an AR15 thinks the scout is ever going to win a gunfight.
Seriously, where do you come up with this stuff?
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  #136  
Old 01-22-2024, 2:39 PM
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tygerpaw tygerpaw is offline
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It's funny all the vigorous debate and disagreement.

I have a Steyr Scout and I love it for what it was designed for. I've killed several pigs with it, enjoy shooting it, carrying it and generally think it's a very cool rifle. I have no intention of ever trying to win a gunfight with it (hopefully will NEVER be in a gunfight). I wont shoot an animal past 200 yards with it. I'm glad I have it, but would I buy it again - probably not for the cost of the Steyr. It's a little overpriced in my book, but an excellent rifle. You can get a very similar experience for about half the money with the other options out there.
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