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General gun discussions This is a place to lounge and discuss firearm related topics with other forum members. |
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#1
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When would you draw and fire !
Recently while having lunch with near strangers the conversation drifted to CCW holders. 3 of the 4 expressed how these people are basically looking for trouble and had no training, blah, blah , blah .Added to that, were comments about how needing a gun is rare, that it’s not realistic anyone would ever need it.
After those inane comments, i said I would only fire to protect myself and someone I love if I had a CCW. One guy got mad that I would not protect strangers who care so little for their own lives, they make no effort to protect themselves. Any thoughts on hypothetical situations? |
#2
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It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. With that being said, there have been many unrecorded incidents where a defensive use of a firearm was utilized and not a single shot was fired. If you don't have to shoot someone, why the hell would you? To answer your initial question, if I drew my firearm, I would only fire if the need arises. If my life, the lives of my family, or innocents were in immediate danger. Basically, if there was an imminent threat.
Last edited by Grobie; 06-07-2021 at 8:35 PM.. |
#4
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I would only draw and shoot if me or a family member's life or health was at stake. Anyone else, unless the circumstances were correct, no.
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Let us not pray to be sheltered from dangers but to be fearless when facing them. - Rabindranath Tagore A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes the hand bleed that uses it. - Rabindranath Tagore Talent hits a target no one else can hit. Genius hits a target no one else can see. - Arthur Schopenhaur |
#6
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#7
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To their comment
Florida had over 1 million CCW licenses since before Y2K. Idiots said law abiding gun owners would have a gunfight with each crash Never happened Maybe your coworkers/ colleagues will realize that what they are afraid of - is not a problem in 30-35 states who allow many to get a permit. Nor in areas in CA that issue San berdu Bakersfield Orange County It’s just not a real issue
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Rule 1- ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED Rule 2 -NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY (including your hands and legs) Rule 3 -KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET Rule 4 -BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT (thanks to Jeff Cooper) |
#9
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Only to stop a threat, period.
When I'm out somewhere there could possibly be an issue I'm looking for places I could shelter, hide and DEFEND! Hence the term, Self Defense. Especially in an active shooter situation. The very last thing I want to do, and live with is to shoot someone.
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#10
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Seat belts are rare until you need one.
Life insurance is rare until you need it. Deadbolts are rare until you need them. Life vests are rare until you need one. But when you do you thank God you have it. I'd rather have it and not need it than....you know the rest. |
#11
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Please get professional training from a certified instruction group. This isn’t a topic that can be throughly covered with a light chat on the internet.
There are 3 month long courses at law schools that cover use of force laws, and even those courses do not cover everything. |
#12
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To protect myself and the innocent while upholding the law.
I actually carry my full auto/suppressed SBR in my small backpack wherever I go. Looks like a simple hiking bag which you can use it for. You wouldn’t even suspect it. If I am hiking I carry my Marlin 45-70 and HK45 Tactical. Military training is good but practice practice practice. JPC and PPC are the basics. I shoot every couple of weeks. Since ammo prices have been back to precovid prices for several months now folks shoot all the time now locally. And make sure you get a USCCA membership for starters or CCW Safe. Last edited by Endless; 06-08-2021 at 1:14 AM.. |
#13
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I would work very hard to keep the small smile off my face and turn the conversation to another subject then "remember" that I had an appointment elsewhere that I was late for.
F 'em if they are so clueless that they believe their own lives are forfeit because they won't protect themselves. F 'em again for thinking you'd just stand there and let them be murdered merely because they don't believe that you would defend them in an emergency if you could. And finally, F 'em a third time by making them pay the freaking check after you leave.
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Some random thoughts: Somebody's gotta be the mole so it might as well be me. Seems to be working so far. Evil doesn't only come in black. Life is like a discount bakery. Usually everything is just what you ordered. But, occasionally you come face to face with an unexpected fruitcake. Surprise! My Utubery |
#14
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Let us see pics of your “full auto/suppressed SBR” that fits into a backpack. I’d like to be impressed.
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The wife will be pissed, but Jesus always forgives. |
#15
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I recommend you not discuss your self defense plans / intent on a public forum....
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"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue." ----Sen. Barry Goldwater Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ----Benjamin Franklin NRA life member CRPA member |
#17
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I never discuss protection issues with anyone. No one knows about me because
concealed means concealed. I also avoid conflict and situations that could be trouble and when I'am out and about I am a Grey Man. Sadly, some liberals can’t handle the Truth. Be safe Bob
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May the Bridges I burn light the way. Life Is Not About Waiting For The Storm To Pass - Its About Learning To Dance In The Rain. Fewer people are killed with all rifles each year (323 in 2011) than with shotguns (356), hammers and clubs (496), and hands and feet (728). |
#18
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What they wanted to hear is that you would engage them in conversation as to why they are acting the way they do and encourage them to stop their bad habits over coffee and donuts. Like that would stop them.
Only you, and those that you love, should know who is important enough for you to defend. It’s not any of their business.
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We are all Masters of our own Ship. It's the course changes that you make, that affect your life. I'm not paranoid, I know they're out to get me. NRA Life Member |
#19
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Another common theme that seems to show up is training as in far more emphasis on how to shoot than when to shoot. Military training does not transfer to civilian life when it comes to when to shoot and it doesn't matter how special anything is or was, its not comparable. Remember that the next time Sealitis takes your money and you think they are more qualified than someone else to teach you about CCW in the civilian world. While knowing how to shoot is as important as anything else without as much training or knowledge of when to shoot it becomes a liability instead of a defense. When you audit a lot of training schools/sessions one thing stands out, the scenarios are often the same, use the same visuals and often train people to shoot based upon a visual that you can go from school to school and see almost exactly the same thing. Those cartoonish shoot don't shoot mockups don't prepare you for much of anything and rote learning when to shoot is one of the worst things you can do for yourself.
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Let Go of the Status Quo! Don't worry, it will never pass...How in the hell did that pass? Think past your gun, it's the last resort, the first is your brain. Defense is a losing proposition when time is on the side of the opponent. In the history of humanity, no defense has ever won against an enemy with time on their side. |
#21
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I had a CCW instructor one time that summed up best when to pull and shoot... he says "If you think an ambulance ride is going to be needed in 3 seconds, pull and shoot".
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#23
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In all the decades I've been alive, not once when having lunch with near strangers has the conversation drifted to CCW holders. How does that happen? I'm not saying what you're saying didn't happen it just seems quite strange. Even when I've been in places where it seemed most people were very liberal whatever conversations were going on that could be heard, not once did someone start talking about CCW holders. Sorry but I doubt most people sit down for lunch with people that are near strangers to them and have CCW holders in their minds let alone open that topic up for discussion. It could happen, it just seems implausible. Even the most ardent anti-gun people don't pick out CCW holders as their primary focus, they are too engrossed in things like AR15s. Then ask for hypothetical situations? The news is full of real ones.
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Let Go of the Status Quo! Don't worry, it will never pass...How in the hell did that pass? Think past your gun, it's the last resort, the first is your brain. Defense is a losing proposition when time is on the side of the opponent. In the history of humanity, no defense has ever won against an enemy with time on their side. |
#24
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Lol, don’t hold your breath.
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Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God |
#25
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Even for a cal gunner such as yourself who avoids anything that might identify you as a closet gun owner! |
#26
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"If I was out with you and your wife and kids, and they were about to be shot by some dirt bag, I would NOT engage to defend them. Because that's YOUR job. And if you...their own husband and father...don't believe that their lives are worth enough to be prepared to defend them, then why the hell should I risk my life and financial livelihood to protect them?" But then, I've never been accused of being particularly diplomatic. And I do tend to enjoy watching liberals get triggered. PUN intended.
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"Kestryll I wanna lick your doughnut." Fighter Pilot |
#27
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If I thought I might have to draw a weapon to protect a stranger...I'd ask the stranger if he was a Democrat first. No sense putting yourself out there to defend a Commie.
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C'mon man, shouldn't we ban Democracks from Cal-Guns? Or at least send them to re-education camps. |
#28
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I am very happy that our small pistol club that shoots once a month at Burro has an excellent trainer in the person of a retired LASD instructor, street cop, officer involved shooting investigator, winner of National Police Olympics several years in a row and one who knew Jack Weaver, Cooper, Applegate and others personally. He stresses that the rules for civilians are miles apart from those for LEOs. Once or twice a year, he conducts a day of training for us, and I always learn something new. He has been to Gunsite and other training venues and walked away realizing that some or much of what they teach would get someone prosecuted. He teaches for Massad Ayoob, too. |
#29
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Thanx to all who contributed to this thread, I got some new ideas and enjoyed reading all responses .
While not wanting to be confrontational. I did mention Joe Wilcox (Las Vegas) who saved lots of cops from the armed sleeper wife who murdered Wilcox. Their plan was to have hubby engage cops at the stores rear, while she stayed in front to ambush cops. Also mentioned Lubys in Texas and the AR guy who took out the church killer ! All in all it was a sad experience seeing people leave California and be that uninformed! Last edited by ja308; 06-09-2021 at 2:57 PM.. |
#30
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Benefactor Life Member, National Rifle Association Life Member, California Rifle and Pistol Association Last edited by Jeepergeo; 06-11-2021 at 12:29 PM.. |
#32
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I recently had dinner with a friend who was in town visiting and this exact topic came up. My response was that it all depends on the situation. In our current situation - just me and him at a booth near the kitchen - I’d drop to the floor out of sight from anyone entering the restaurant, into the kitchen and escape out the back. If my family was with me, I’d do whatever was necessary to keep them safe.
If my family wasn’t with me, my first goal would be to make it home safe. but if I had a good opportunity to get the jump on the bad guy and protect others, I’d take it.
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my Benitez goes to 11 |
#34
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Short answer "no"
I was at the gilroy garlic fest when that guy started shooting people with the sks. I took my wife who doesn't believe people need guns outside in public and kids and we booked it for our truck. Afterwards she found out 3 people died and multiple people were injured and asked if we did the right thing. what if she took the kids to the truck and i went and stopped the guy? Could we have stopped him even though he wasn't near us? I had to explain to my wife that day that if we/I had did that that day i would be in jail right now and she would be dealing with a civil law suit. First our lives were not being threatened we were no where near the shooter and even then we were not being shot at. Second california does not consider someone running to danger and shooting someone else self defense. Third there are no laws protecting private ccw citizens from stopping criminals who are trying to kill people. Lastly the state of california would probably bring charges against me since it is a anti gun state and it doesn't want its people defending itself without punishment. simply "no good deed goes unpunished" |
#35
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People die all the time by intervening in someone else’s violence.
Suspect Arrested in Kidnapping of Ex-Girlfriend and Shooting Death of a Man Who Intervened https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/l...hemet/2613416/
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#36
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Wasn't there a case where someone intervened in what they thought was a man beating a woman and ended up shooting an undercover cop trying to arrest her? |
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#40
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Interesting physical and emotional response from the shooter.
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