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  #1  
Old 06-06-2021, 7:18 AM
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Default Selling Sig P320 To CA Resident?

HI,

I'm considering tossing in a recent Sig P320 Scorpion in a deal with a CA resident friend. The "custom works" version... I know the mags may be an issue despite current rulings but we'll work that out...

I can't determine the legality of doing this and thought you guys could advise or direct to actual law.

I read somewhere about the modularity being a deal breaker for 320s but I also gathered you may obtain some of these "scary" guns by buying from friend or family or LEO. Just wont find on the shelf at your local gun shop...

Obviously confusing... Trying to work a deal and this may be the icing on the cake but I want to know the legality and present facts to friend before mentioning it.

BTW I am currently in CA so I guess we'd just drop off at a local FFL right?

Thanks!
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Old 06-06-2021, 7:31 AM
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You would have to be a CA resident with CA State ID for this to be processed as a person to person transfer. Otherwise all of the Handgun Roster rules apply. Since the P320 is not on the roster you would not be able to transfer to your friend if you are not a CA resident, unless he was exempt from the roster, LEO for example.
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  #3  
Old 06-06-2021, 7:31 AM
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Unless you are a Ca resident with a valid Ca ID it's not going to happen. A Private Person Transfer which would be exempt from the roster must be between to Ca residents.
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Old 06-06-2021, 7:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AregularGuy View Post
You would have to be a CA resident with CA State ID for this to be processed as a person to person transfer. Otherwise all of the Handgun Roster rules apply. Since the P320 is not on the roster you would not be able to transfer to your friend if you are not a CA resident, unless he was exempt from the roster, LEO for example.
Thanks...

Did this change recently or is it because of the modularity of the P320?

I had an off roster pistol I almost did the same thing with a few years ago and thought no way but was advised it was just "illegal" to buy from a gunshop in CA but totally legal between private parties with FFL involved. Either P229 or an XDs.... maybe....
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Old 06-06-2021, 8:01 AM
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Oh yea!

How about the ammo? Can I just sell straight across..no FFL etc...

Thanks!
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  #6  
Old 06-06-2021, 8:04 AM
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Neither (to the extent that it affects this).

Were you a CA resident a few years ago?
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Old 06-06-2021, 8:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayduke View Post
Thanks...

Did this change recently or is it because of the modularity of the P320?

I had an off roster pistol I almost did the same thing with a few years ago and thought no way but was advised it was just "illegal" to buy from a gunshop in CA but totally legal between private parties with FFL involved. Either P229 or an XDs.... maybe....
This has been in effect for some time. A CA resident cannot do a person to person transfer with a non CA resident, even if that person is physically in CA. The roster would apply to all transactions coming from "out of state" unless the buyer was exempt. If you sold that pistol more than ~7 years ago then there was an exemption known as Single Shot Exemption, whereby an off roster pistol could be purchased from an FFL or out of state. This was squashed in 2014. 229 was/is on roster, XDs never was but many were purchased via single shot exemption when they were first made available to the market.

Ammo also has to go through an FFL unless the buyer has COE and FFL.
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Old 06-06-2021, 8:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayduke View Post
Thanks...

Did this change recently or is it because of the modularity of the P320?

I had an off roster pistol I almost did the same thing with a few years ago and thought no way but was advised it was just "illegal" to buy from a gunshop in CA but totally legal between private parties with FFL involved. Either P229 or an XDs.... maybe....
It has nothing to do with modularity. It has everything to do with the roster of safe handguns. The P320 is no different than a NAA Pug in that regard.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayduke View Post
Oh yea!

How about the ammo? Can I just sell straight across..no FFL etc...

Thanks!
No you cannot, unless the buyer has 03 FFL and COE or ammo vendor license etc
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Old 06-06-2021, 8:08 AM
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If you are on military order. (PCS) you don’t need California ID
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Old 06-06-2021, 8:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saudadeii View Post
Neither (to the extent that it affects this).

Were you a CA resident a few years ago?
Yep!

Bailed out in 2005....I spent a lot of time back in CA helping out elderly parent when I could till 2018.

Would a gun shop buy it from me? I wonder if they'd offer a good price since difficult to obtain and then they could sell to an otherwise legal to own party.
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Old 06-06-2021, 8:25 AM
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Bear in mind the only people who could purchase from an FFL are exempt. They don't pay the ridiculous prices like the rest of us. AXG Scorpions are running around $1100 (Buds, Osage, etc). I'll guess a shop would offer you $600-$700.

You'd likely do better selling it locally or even parting it out and keep the FCU.
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Old 06-06-2021, 8:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayduke View Post

Would a gun shop buy it from me? I wonder if they'd offer a good price since difficult to obtain and then they could sell to an otherwise legal to own party.
Not likely unless you are willing to sell it for pennies on the dollar.

I agree that this gun is worth a lot of $$ in CA *as parts*. Sell the FCU parts (minus the FCU) as one set, and the complete grip/slide as another. Cash in. Then sell the stripped FCU on Gunbroker if you want.

You could probably get $1500 -$1800 easy here for just the grip/slide combo if it is a Scorpion AXG
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  #13  
Old 06-06-2021, 8:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Not likely unless you are willing to sell it for pennies on the dollar.

I agree that this gun is worth a lot of $$ in CA *as parts*. Sell the FCU parts (minus the FCU) as one set, and the complete grip/slide as another. Cash in. Then sell the stripped FCU on Gunbroker if you want.

You could probably get $1500 -$1800 easy here for just the grip/slide combo if it is a Scorpion AXG
Hmmm...

SO I could sell the 320 minus the FCU straight across...no FFL involved?

Then a CA resident could buy a FCU and be up and running?

Yep it's the Custom Works P320 Scorpion, Coyote metal frame with G10 grips and case and mags IF the recent court ruling holds up!


It's this one:

https://www.sigsauer.com/p320-axg-scorpion.html
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  #14  
Old 06-06-2021, 8:39 AM
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If it doesn’t work out with your friend, please let me know. I’d love to buy it.
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Old 06-06-2021, 9:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveInKA View Post
If it doesn’t work out with your friend, please let me know. I’d love to buy it.
Message sent!
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  #16  
Old 06-06-2021, 6:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
It has nothing to do with modularity. It has everything to do with the roster of safe handguns. The P320 is no different than a NAA Pug in that regard.

No you cannot, unless the buyer has 03 FFL and COE or ammo vendor license etc
Roster of Approved Handguns.

Guessing they changed the name of the list when someone brought to their attention that they were allowing cops to purchase "unsafe" handguns, so now they're just allowing cops to buy "unapproved" handguns, or something...
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Old 06-06-2021, 8:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert1234 View Post
Roster of Approved Handguns.

Guessing they changed the name of the list when someone brought to their attention that they were allowing cops to purchase "unsafe" handguns, so now they're just allowing cops to buy "unapproved" handguns, or something...
Actually looks like they call it Roster of Certified Handguns now. I guess 'approved' sounded too draconian, what with a recall election looming and all.
https://govt.westlaw.com/calregs/Doc...efault)&bhcp=1
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Old 06-07-2021, 6:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayduke View Post
Then a CA resident could buy a FCU and be up and running?
Easier said than done!!
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  #19  
Old 06-07-2021, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Actually looks like they call it Roster of Certified Handguns now. I guess 'approved' sounded too draconian, what with a recall election looming and all.
https://govt.westlaw.com/calregs/Doc...efault)&bhcp=1
That's what it was called in 2008; I believe that is the original name.
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Old 06-07-2021, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
That's what it was called in 2008; I believe that is the original name.
Ok, how about we just call it what it is, "The Certified List of Approved Safe Handguns the Crown Has Agreed to Graciously Allow Her Subjects to Possess Until Such Time As The Crown Figures Out a Way to Completely Outlaw Possession of Even Those Handguns Previously Erroneously Deemed "Certifiably Safe and Approved"", and Outlaws Their Possession Completely".
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Old 06-07-2021, 1:21 PM
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^^ I like it

we could also keep it foolproof, and call it 'Roster of Rostered Handguns' because apparently we (or at least I) can't remember what to call it
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Old 06-07-2021, 4:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert1234 View Post
Ok, how about we just call it what it is, "The Certified List of Approved Safe Handguns the Crown Has Agreed to Graciously Allow Her Subjects to Possess Until Such Time As The Crown Figures Out a Way to Completely Outlaw Possession of Even Those Handguns Previously Erroneously Deemed "Certifiably Safe and Approved"", and Outlaws Their Possession Completely".
Ah, so
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Henceforth it will be the task of this Sacred Congregation not only to examine carefully the guns denounced to it, to prohibit them if necessary, and to grant permission for possessing forbidden guns, but also to supervise, ex officio, guns that are being manufactured, and to pass sentence on such as deserve to be prohibited. Its further task is to remind the bishops of their sacred duty to combat the distribution of pernicious weapons and give information about them to the Apostolic See, in accordance with the Constitution Officiorum ad munerum of 25 January, 1897 (Acta S. Sedis, XLI, 432).
It's always been a religious argument, based on faith, incapable of falsification.
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Old 06-07-2021, 4:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Ah, so

It's always been a religious argument, based on faith, incapable of falsification.
I wish I had used the word pernicious in my post. Damn my poor word-association skills!!!
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Old 06-10-2021, 6:15 PM
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Please clarify...

Since the P320 in modular and only the FCU has serial number could I as an out it stater sell all but the FCU to a CA resident straight across with no FFL?

Any advice on a fair price would be appreciated. I'm not trying to price gouge but if I can optimize my return and help out a CA resident. I would certainly not as more than I paid for it ~$1200. Not even sure what the FCU goes for....

Thanks!
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Old 06-10-2021, 6:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayduke View Post
Please clarify...

Since the P320 in modular and only the FCU has serial number could I as an out it stater sell all but the FCU to a CA resident straight across with no FFL?
Federal and CA laws requires transfers of the FCU, which is legally considered the firearm's receiver, to be done through a FFL.
Because it is off-Roster, a CA FFL dealer can not legally transfer it to a non-exempt person.

Federal and CA laws do not require all the other parts (frame, slide assembly, etc.) to be transferred through a FFL.

All of the above applies to all modular pistol designs that use a removable metal fire control unit that contains the firearm's serial number, which is legally considered the firearm's receiver.
^Examples... SIG P250/P320/P365, Beretta Nano/Pico, Kel-Tec P32/P3AT, Norinco QSZ-92/CF98/NP42.
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Old 06-10-2021, 6:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayduke View Post
Please clarify...

Since the P320 in modular and only the FCU has serial number could I as an out it stater sell all but the FCU to a CA resident straight across with no FFL?

Any advice on a fair price would be appreciated. I'm not trying to price gouge but if I can optimize my return and help out a CA resident. I would certainly not as more than I paid for it ~$1200. Not even sure what the FCU goes for....

Thanks!
Yes! You can send everything here but the FCU, no FFL needed.

The parts out of the FCU are worth $250 all day, even in free states
https://sigsauerparts.com/sig-sauer-...t-slide-catch/

The Scorpion AXG frame and slide are $1500 easy in CA
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Old 06-10-2021, 6:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Yes! You can send everything here but the FCU, no FFL needed.

The parts out of the FCU are worth $250 all day, even in free states
https://sigsauerparts.com/sig-sauer-...t-slide-catch/

The Scorpion AXG frame and slide are $1500 easy in CA
Thanks!
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Old 06-10-2021, 7:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Federal and CA laws requires transfers of the FCU, which is legally considered the firearm's receiver, to be done through a FFL.
Because it is off-Roster, a CA FFL dealer can not legally transfer it to a non-exempt person.

Federal and CA laws do not require all the other parts (frame, slide assembly, etc.) to be transferred through a FFL.

All of the above applies to all modular pistol designs that use a removable metal fire control unit that contains the firearm's serial number, which is legally considered the firearm's receiver.
^Examples... SIG P250/P320/P365, Beretta Nano/Pico, Kel-Tec P32/P3AT, Norinco QSZ-92/CF98/NP42.
You forgot my second favorite modular pistol - Beretta Neos.

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Old 06-12-2021, 10:52 AM
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Just realized that the penal code still calls anything off-roster 'unsafe handguns'

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=32000
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