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  #1  
Old 08-21-2019, 4:16 PM
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Default Brass galling on carbide sizing die

I run a Dillon 550C and so far have put 1K through by Dillon 45acp dies. Dies were bought new and have not had any problems with them until now. I use mixed headstamp range brass and wet tumble with ss pins, car wash and wax, and lemishine. Iíve never ran dirty brass through any of my dies. I was working on a new load and had ran a piece through the sizer, which came out fine as expected. The very next piece, however, had several scratches running lengthwise around half the circumference of the brass. Confused, I ran a couple more pieces through it with the same results. Took the die off and noticed brass buildup inside starting near the top of the carbide ring. Tried to use oil and even toothpaste as a polishing agent and a bronze wire brush to clean it. The condition has improved but I still see at least some discoloration where the brass streaks were. Called up Dillon and theyíre sending out a new die.



Iím not sure how exactly this has happened. Some have stated itís because I wet tumble and recommend I lube my brass. Others said dirty brass or nickel plated brass is to blame. Ive ran 3K 9mm without lubing and so far have never had any problems with it. Iíd like to know what caused this to avoid the hassle in the future. I donít have many tools at my disposal so my options for a diy fix are limited.

I have some pieces of brass like this with a gouge on the side and wondering if that could be whatís causing this. Though Iím unsure if a piece of brass like this was even used. I wasnít able to tell by looking at the brass after the fact. Pieces like this have a groove but not a sharp edge.



What are your thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 08-21-2019, 4:51 PM
ironhorse1 ironhorse1 is offline
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At some point the carbide sizing die managed to scrape off some bits of brass. Those bits now are being forced under pressure down the cases.

Checking the definition of galling and we see that;

Galling is a form of wear caused by adhesion between sliding surfaces. When a material galls, some of it is pulled with the contacting surface, especially if there is a large amount of force compressing the surfaces together. ... Steel that is fully hardened is very resistant to galling.

So maybe the cases with the ring set your die up to pull some brass off of the sides.

With brass in the die every case after will get scratches.

irh
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Old 08-21-2019, 10:58 PM
pacrat pacrat is offline
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I have previously had the same exact scratching of sized cases using carbide dies. In both 38/357 and 45acp.

Caused by running nickle plated cases through carbide dies with no lube. The nickle burnishes onto the die interior and is very hard.

Clean the nickle from the die using an appropriate bronze chamber/bore brush wrapped with 4/0 steel wool and a little oil. Spin the crap out of the brush using a drill motor. That will remove the nickle deposits and not harm the die.

Separate nickle cases from brass. Using a fingertip wipe just a tiny amount of lube around the mouth on every tenth nickle case. And your problem will not return.

Problem, is not a problem, if using vibratory case polisher. That super fine layer of dust left on cases acts as buffer between case and die. And resolves the nickle transfer problem.

Your pic #2 appears to be a "port ding". Caused by an improperly timed ejector. Case flips as it exits ejection port, and hits the ejection port. Instead of being thrown clear. If you size nickle cases like that, without lube. That would contribute to more rapid build up.

Last edited by pacrat; 08-22-2019 at 12:31 AM..
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Old 08-22-2019, 3:49 AM
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That looks like galling. It will happen with the new die they send you also if you run them with SS tumbled brass and no lube of any kind (eventually). You can polish the inside of the die to remove the brass that was transferred. I don't know about the ring on the loaded round, did that appear during the reloading?
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Old 08-22-2019, 2:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheep View Post
That looks like galling. It will happen with the new die they send you also if you run them with SS tumbled brass and no lube of any kind (eventually). You can polish the inside of the die to remove the brass that was transferred. I don't know about the ring on the loaded round, did that appear during the reloading?
The ring on the second pic is a result of a FTF in a 1911 I was running. The round would get jammed in a nose up position in the chamber opening and cause that mark. However, Iíve reloaded a few cases with those marks and havenít noticed any issues with it during that time. I just wasnít sure if maybe loading a case like that is what caused the problem this time around. Iíll try lubing my cases next time and see how that works out. How much lube is needed?
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Old 08-22-2019, 3:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinA. View Post
How much lube is needed?
For carbide dies I use One Shot, just a quick half-second spray over the cases and shake them around.
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Old 08-22-2019, 7:04 PM
tawadc95 tawadc95 is offline
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I do the same with One Shot, spray some into a bag full of cases and shake them around.
I've seen that ding on some cases that weren't loading properly, you guessed it, a Kimber.
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Old 08-22-2019, 7:09 PM
tawadc95 tawadc95 is offline
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It was a 1911 and didn't like the H&G 138 mould bullet with a parallel lip magazine, the extractor wasn't picking the round up and the non round nose bullet profile wasn't tipping the case into the bore axis so it was getting slammed against the top edge of the barrel feed ramp.
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Old 08-22-2019, 7:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
I have previously had the same exact scratching of sized cases using carbide dies. In both 38/357 and 45acp.

Caused by running nickle plated cases through carbide dies with no lube. The nickle burnishes onto the die interior and is very hard.

Clean the nickle from the die using an appropriate bronze chamber/bore brush wrapped with 4/0 steel wool and a little oil. Spin the crap out of the brush using a drill motor. That will remove the nickle deposits and not harm the die.

Separate nickle cases from brass. Using a fingertip wipe just a tiny amount of lube around the mouth on every tenth nickle case. And your problem will not return.

Problem, is not a problem, if using vibratory case polisher. That super fine layer of dust left on cases acts as buffer between case and die. And resolves the nickle transfer problem.

Your pic #2 appears to be a "port ding". Caused by an improperly timed ejector. Case flips as it exits ejection port, and hits the ejection port. Instead of being thrown clear. If you size nickle cases like that, without lube. That would contribute to more rapid build up.
I had a h__l of a time with the expander powder die on my Dillon drove me nuts, Turned out be the SS pin cleaned brass was sticking after a lot of spilled powder and a very sore back, I thought it was bad brass was going to toss it, until someone here had a similar problem and a trip through the tumbler with plain corn cob all was good again. Of course I did not figure it out till after a few thousand rounds from h__l
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Old 08-22-2019, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnysmarine View Post
I had a h__l of a time with the expander powder die on my Dillon drove me nuts, Turned out be the SS pin cleaned brass was sticking after a lot of spilled powder and a very sore back, I thought it was bad brass was going to toss it, until someone here had a similar problem and a trip through the tumbler with plain corn cob all was good again. Of course I did not figure it out till after a few thousand rounds from h__l
I was having that issue pretty bad with my 45acp. You can send your powder funnel to Starline brass and they will do some work on it to fix that issue free of charge. It makes a significant difference. You just have to pay shipping there and they’ll cover the return cost.
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Old 08-22-2019, 10:47 PM
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carbide dies do not require lube

that being said i rub a case on a candle every 50-100 i can feel it act smoother for a while then when it feels slighly sluggish i candle rub another

i also put a bit of car polish in with my walnut media it seems to make them size easier

i may be imagining things but i can feel the difference between a rem case and a win case but not a fed case sometimes they feel like a rem or a win rems are easier
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Old 08-22-2019, 11:42 PM
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Galling between a brass case and dies or powder funnels is usually caused by lack of lubrication.
This was very rare before people started wet tumbling because dry media leaves enough dust on the cases to act as a barrier that gets between the brass and the die or powder funnel.
Wet tumbling leaves the cases TOO clean and they are far more likely to gall.
The solution is to first clean ALL the brass out of the die or off the expander and second to start lubing the cases.
There are several dry lubes to choose from as well as nylon bristle brushes to apply them to case mouths.
You could also use a wet lube.
Wet lubes will need to be cleaned off after sizing and before priming and charging so this really complicates use in a progressive press.

The easiest way to lube them is to just dry tumble them in some media that will leave some dust.
Dry tumbling does not require any cleaning afterwards.
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Last edited by ar15barrels; 08-22-2019 at 11:45 PM..
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Old 08-23-2019, 6:36 AM
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Default Brass galling on carbide sizing die

Not long ago I got the tip around here to use a little lanolin mixed with denatured alcohol to a light spray and spritz that over pistol cases and let dry. They have just enough lube and itís so light it doesnít really need any cleaning so it runs on turret press ok. And it is extreme cheap lube to make in quantity.

But I only have a dry tumbler so Iím adding that light lube to the dust. Not sure how that would work for washed cases.

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Old 08-23-2019, 6:30 PM
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I wet tumble but also run them trough my dry tumbler as well . For two reasons and both mainly for rifle cases but I just do it with my pistol cases as well .

1) to get the lube off after sizing my rifle cases ( i only use a single stage for rifle )

2 ) to clean them with a polish . This leave a thin film on the cases that helps resist tarnishing as well as acts like a very light lube on my pistol cases . If I don’t do that with my pistol cases I can feel more resistance when sizing because as AR-Barrels points out , the cases are to clean if I only wet tumble .
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Old 08-24-2019, 7:49 AM
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I also use Hornady One Shot. Just a quick blast over the cases makes it easier to size (I use carbide dies).

I have a case feeder and spray One Shot on a foam paint roller (4 inch?) from Lowes. I drop that into the hopper with the cases and just let it roll around while loading. So I guess I kinda lube the cases twice.
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Old 08-24-2019, 12:34 PM
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current process

1) wet tumble in HF cement mixer w/ lemishine and car wash/wax, no pins
2) 10:1 alcohol to lanolin lube
3) decap/size on loadmaster
4) wet tumble again
5) load
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Old 08-27-2019, 7:26 AM
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Another one using a light spritz of One Shot for carbide pistol dies. No, not necessary but makes life a lot easier, especially with 9mm & .38/.357.
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Old 08-27-2019, 8:22 AM
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Clean your carbide die

Or send it into the manufacturer to have it cleaned.

I don’t lube straight wall pistol cases- that’s why we have carbide dies
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Old 08-27-2019, 6:05 PM
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Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
I donít lube straight wall pistol cases- thatís why we have carbide dies
Normally agreed, but the wet tumble didn't clean the brass enough/left some kind of chalky residue that resulted in stuck cases. Yes, even in my carbide die. Meh, I'm just experimenting anyways.
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Old 08-28-2019, 8:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustard View Post
the wet tumble didn't clean the brass enough/left some kind of chalky residue that resulted in stuck cases.
Yes, even in my carbide die.
Wet tumbling actually leaves the brass TOO clean which is why they gall.
Dry tumbling leaves a little media dust which acts as a dry lube to stop galling from occurring.
Before wet tumbling came to be a common thing, we only heard of galling problems with brand NEW brass which is as clean as wet tumbled brass.

We did not have galling problems with used brass because everyone was dry tumbling and the dry tumbling media keeps the brass from galling to the carbide.
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Old 08-28-2019, 10:01 AM
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I believe you, but i've wet tumbled with different ways and recipes. The time before last i tried using car wash/ wax as my soap which left enough of a residue as lube for the carbide die. The wash/wax also prevents the ultra clean wet tumbled brass from tarnishing. And i washed twice: once to get the big stuff off the brass before i run it through the press to deprime, the second to double clean it more with the primer pocket exposed.

This last time the water after my last wet tumble was practically black. Feeling the brass you can tell there's sediment or calcification on the surfaces. I'm also using an undersized 9mm die. The brass will get another wash after this before i consider it reload ready.
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Old 09-01-2019, 6:23 AM
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It’s not the cases that need lube, but the die. Carbide needs to be cleaned with a copper/carbon solvent, then lubed. Once lubed, the die will run for a very long time before it needs cleaning again.

Lemme tell you a story: I once went to ASR with a 9mm pistol and one 9mm case to see how long the case would last. I reloaded it 30 times that afternoon without cleaning. Later on, my Redding titanium carbide die started scratching cases and finally stuck a case in the die. The cases were dirty but not from dirt as they never hit the ground. They were only carbon fouled. When I resized them I was forcing the carbon into the carbide to the point it hardened and started to scratch the cases. So I cleaned the die and blasted out the solvent with brake cleaner. Stuck another case. After a period of frustration I calmed down and did some research and discovered that carbide is porous like a sponge. So I cleaned it again and lubed it with oil on a q-tip. Then wiped it down and it sized brass smooth as butter. Never had another problem.

I will not run dirty cases through my dies ever again.
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