SURVIVE! Knives GSO-4.5 Standard - Your Thoughts?

[TrappedinCalifornia]

I've been eyeing the SURVIVE! Knives for awhile, but could never figure out their ordering process.

Be that as it may, they appear to have a Pre-Order open at the moment for a GSO-4.5 Standard with MagnaCut steel (I don't know much about MagnaCut) and I was thinking about ordering one.

I was wondering what peoples' thoughts/opinions were on this brand and, of course, if anyone owns this particular style. I spend a good deal of time along streams, creeks, rivers, and lakes. Thus, I was looking for something a bit more 'corrosion resistant' for such circumstances than the ordinary carbon steel such as 1095 or A2 or 01 which I habitually carry. I had been considering S35VN in a fixed blade (which is more readily available), but this had come up and got me to considering since, as I said, I've been looking at SURVIVE! Knives for several years.

The impression I've had, however, is that they are a small business, chronically 'behind,' they've had some issues with materials, but are considered by many to be a good quality product... if you can get your hands on one.

I've no interest in the bow drill divot. I do like the approximate 5/32 thickness. A 4" - 5" blade is a good working length for most tasks where I'd generally employ a fixed blade. In a sense, it looks to be a potentially decent, general purpose blade which is a bit more 'expensive' than most of the knives I generally carry.

Ergonomics of the handle? Edge retention? Corrosion resistance? Robustness of the blade? You know. All the usual insights would be appreciated.

[ryno066]

I took my brother 4-5 years to receive his GSO-10. The 2 GOS 5.1 we bought took a year and a half to receive at least. Its a nice knife but takes forever.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

Originally Posted by ryno066

I took my brother 4-5 years to receive his GSO-10. The 2 GOS 5.1 we bought took a year and a half to receive at least. Its a nice knife but takes forever.

Well... Hopefully it no longer takes that long since I went ahead and placed a pre-order. According to their website...

The GSO-4.5 and GSO-5.1 will be on-going SURVIVE! models that we aim to have in constant production with the goal of having them be more readily available. These will be our main offerings for the GSO Series with other models being made in between these runs.

They recently had a problem with a batch of different blades decarburizing. They also claim...

These models were part of the decarburated Magnacut batch. The blades could not be finished with our satin stonewash so replacement blades are working their way through production to fulfill preorders. These will be given priority in order to get them caught back up. We are currently planning to ship these in 2 to 4 months.

I figured I'd take a chance; but, I will not be happy if this takes "years" or even if it goes too late into the year to be of use until next season. We'll just have to see.

[ezb57]

I like a cross guard on a heavy duty knife.

[Elgatodeacero]

Before you order from Survive! do yourself a favor and learn about their history.

Their problems and their excuses span a decade.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/...13748/page-196

[drunktank]

It?s a fantastic blade. Fit and finish is basically perfect. I currently have a 3.5 but waiting on a TSK, 2.7, and 5.1 in magnacut.

According to people online who?ve placed preorders, including myself, I?d expect roughly a 6-9 month wait on yours regardless of what their production schedule says?I placed a presale order for my 5.1 back in December and am still waiting. I read about the decarburization issue around January but others have waited over a year for the same presale knife. Ymmv

I would recommend joining one of their Facebook fan pages and buying second hand for any future purchases. Many are unused and sell for cheaper than cost.


I opted for a Reiff Knives F4 over the 4.5 Standard due to availability and can say the fit and finish isn?t as good as Survive!?s. But it?s better than all the other brands in my drawer. Might order the 4.5 anyway just to own one and pass it down. I think they?re that good.

I chipped my 3.5?s blade and Guy was quick to respond and made things right immediately so I placed more orders because of that. Ymmv

[TrappedinCalifornia]

Originally Posted by Elgatodeacero

Before you order from Survive! do yourself a favor and learn about their history...

You must have missed Post #3 above...

Originally Posted by TrappedinCalifornia

Well... Hopefully it no longer takes that long since I went ahead and placed a pre-order...

As I said in the OP...

Originally Posted by TrappedinCalifornia

I've been eyeing the SURVIVE! Knives for awhile, but could never figure out their ordering process...

...I've been looking at SURVIVE! Knives for several years.

The impression I've had, however, is that they are a small business, chronically 'behind,' they've had some issues with materials, but are considered by many to be a good quality product... if you can get your hands on one...

If I remember correctly, this was one of the first videos I saw on their knives, posted in November of 2012 and he did another in December of 2015...



Several of the 'big names' on YouTube have done reviews of their blades...









You can view complaints regarding 'delays' at the Better Business Bureau. In September 2021, they put out a video 'explaining' past delays...



About the same time, this piece popped up... Survive Knives Talks About Troubled Past and Looks Toward a Bright Future

I suspect that it's a combination of over-expectation (both with the customers and the producer), small business meets big demand for a quality product, reasonable intent but undelivered realities, bad luck, need for cash flow, etc. That's why this is the type of feedback I was looking for...

Originally Posted by drunktank

It?s a fantastic blade. Fit and finish is basically perfect...

According to people online who?ve placed preorders, including myself, I?d expect roughly a 6-9 month wait on yours regardless of what their production schedule says?I placed a presale order for my 5.1 back in December and am still waiting. I read about the decarburization issue around January but others have waited over a year for the same presale knife. Ymmv...

I might be a bit overly optimistic in that I was hoping for a 3 - 5 month delivery given what they claim regarding the GSO 4.5 and 5.1 as I indicated in Post #3. There's also the fact that the first, gonna be here the rest of the winter, snowfalls always happen by around mid-November, making it difficult to get out and 'play' with new gear.

It's not like I have a dearth of blades and what I do have are perfectly 'usable.' Yet, there's always that lingering 'concern' that something 'better' might simply be out there waiting for me to discover. However, it is sometimes a bit... 'unreliable'... to focus on pieces from professional 'reviewers' as opposed to 'real people.' But, that's why I posted the thread looking for some insight.

Does it bother me that 2 days after placing the pre-order the outfit dinged me for the full amount with no indication as to when the knives are expected? Yep. Normally, I'm used to pre-orders taking a nominal fee, just to establish the validity of the customer/payment method, then hitting you for the full amount a week or two prior to shipping.

Would it be nice, given the apparent demand for his blades, if he increased staff, allowing for increased output and a curtailment of prioritization of 'current' orders over back orders? Yep. Then again, who knows what would happen to the quality. Not to mention as the Dutch Bushcraft Knives video observes, the price is being 'kept down,' in part, due to the 'small scale' of the business. Thus, it's a potential two-edged sword.

I'm hopeful that the changes he's made to the business allow for better order fulfillment. If so, I can see a GSO-5.1 in my future. It's just that I felt the GSO-4.5 would have more immediate and wider application possibilities... for me.

Keep the input coming.

[drunktank]

You make valid points. I?ve watched pretty much all their YouTube videos, videos/statements on social media, and had several good conversations with Guy on n the phone. I do believe they?ve really streamlined a lot of things and don?t think they have any malicious intent as some people online claim. To be fair, I ordered a GSO 3.5 ?preorder? in September and received it in December. This was their final batch of 3.5?s and it arrived earlier than expected. I hope you get your 4.5 sooner than later. Please leave a review on this forum once you get it! I might say screw it and just place an order for one anyway instead of looking at the secondary market.

[Flying Sig]

I had a knife on order for 2.5 years before I cancelled the order. They promptly refunded my money. I probably wouldn’t order a knife they don’t have in stock

[drunktank]

Originally Posted by Flying Sig

I had a knife on order for 2.5 years before I cancelled the order. They promptly refunded my money. I probably wouldn?t order a knife they don?t have in stock

Which model was it, if you don?t mind me asking? Thanks! Just curious.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

Originally Posted by Flying Sig

I had a knife on order for 2.5 years before I cancelled the order. They promptly refunded my money. I probably wouldn?t order a knife they don?t have in stock

Originally Posted by drunktank

Which model was it, if you don?t mind me asking? Thanks! Just curious.

I'm still trying to be patient. But, based on their history, purchasing one not actually in stock based on where they were projecting themselves was the 'risk' I took. I still have another 30 days, give or take a day or two, until we hit the "90 days" they were targeting when they posted on their site...

The GSO-4.5 and GSO-5.1 will be on-going SURVIVE! models that we aim to have in constant production with the goal of having them be more readily available. These will be our main offerings for the GSO Series with other models being made in between these runs.

I went with the 4.5 in Magnacut, but the 5.1 seems to feature more prominently in their video updates, to the point that the 4.5 never seems to be mentioned. What does worry me is the constant - "It's not our fault, we're a small business, but we're working hard. Don't blame us. Blame the big guys." - rather than tangible output in a timely manner.

In a sense, I think he's being sincere, up to a point. I can appreciate being a small fish being forced to depend on bigger fish. However, they do seem to be overly enamored with new/experimental material, design tweaks, etc. I get the idea that he has bills to pay; but, once again, when you take a customer's money upfront and then leave the customer hanging as to when their product will be sent with 'I have bills to pay so I have to keep income flowing,' it does leave the customer somewhat... unsettled. Such is particularly the case when the company has been in business since 2010 and, as of 2021, they posted...

...Production is finally where we always wanted it to be. We are exceeding our production goals and creating the highest quality knives we have ever made. We would say it is exciting but we're honestly pretty done with excitement after these last few years. From now on we'll be happy just making the highest quality knives we possibly can, finally without the long wait.

Yet, from what customers are saying and their 'updates' seem to be indicating, a "long wait" still seems to be the order of the day. Heck. The last update to their Production Schedule page was 6 April 2023. Even a quarterly update is past due. Yeah. I get it. They're busy working rather than updating. But, when your videos seem to indicate that your focus is on 'new' and you'll 'catch up' when you catch up on existing orders, again, customers are a left a bit askance.

Like I said, I'm still trying to be patient. I would really like to get the GSO 4.5 in hand and hope it's everything it's reputed to be. As I said previously, it would be useful to have it before winter clamps down as, right now, it's difficult enough for me to 'get out there' and once winter sets in, it'll be next May before I can think about getting out there again.

Here's (still) hoping.

[Elgatodeacero]

Nothing appears to have improved regarding Survive! Knives……

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/...13748/page-208

[Flying Sig]

Originally Posted by drunktank

Which model was it, if you don?t mind me asking? Thanks! Just curious.

It was the GSO 5.5 or 5.1. I don’t really remember

[TrappedinCalifornia]

Finally saw some GSO 4.5 Standard's (very briefly) mentioned in one of their 'update' videos.



It's going to be interesting. We're coming up on the 90 day mark.

[Flying Sig]

Did you get your knife yet?

[Elgatodeacero]

Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VsifANR96s

[rlewpolar]

Why would anyone place an order for this company?s knives (even though they are reputedly nice) when there are SO MANY excellent makers and readily available knives in the similar out there? Nothing says to a company ?get your act together? like a cessation of orders coming in.

4 years to get a knife? Lol, give me a break. If I?m going to wait that long for a knife, it?ll be from Nathan the Machinist at Carothers Performance Knives. Anyone else, oh hell no


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[TrappedinCalifornia]

Originally Posted by Flying Sig

Did you get your knife yet?

Not yet. I'm about 3 or 4 days short of the "90 days" from the time of the order and I wouldn't necessarily expect it to come at the 90 day mark. Ship, maybe.

There may be some reason to 'hope' in that he was sending some 4.5 Standards out for heat treat a week ago (18 seconds in on the video)...



A concern I have, not knowing how they actually handle materials, is that the 3 Color Camo G10 scales I put on the order are currently lined off as not available for order on the GSO 4.5 Standard. I'm hoping they simply received enough orders to assign to all the stock they had and won't be 'delaying' orders already placed with those scales.

Another concern is that he's still not talking about the GSO 4.5 Standard, despite it being one of the two offerings, when I ordered, and, now, one of four offerings where they claim on their Production Schedule page...

The EDC-4, EDC-4 FFG, GSO-4.5, and GSO-5.1 will be on-going SURVIVE! models that we aim to have in constant production with the goal of having them be more readily available. These will be our main offerings with other models being made in between these runs.

Coupled with their (finally) updated page where they claim only 29.6% of knives ordered in 2023 have been fulfilled and 33.4% from 2022 have been fulfilled...

Again, I'm hopeful, but far from complacent or confident.

Such is especially true in that he did not specify whether those being sent out for heat treat were intended to fill current orders (not to mention how many orders vs. how many blanks) or if they are going to be 'replacements' for the decarburated 4.5 Standards they used to produce a couple of other versions.

In short, he needs to put out a 4.5 Standard specific video which provides information on that blade. Even at that, proof is in the delivery, not repeated videos about new employees, bad actors, good intentions, etc. I'm willing to cut him a little slack. However...

Originally Posted by rlewpolar

Why would anyone place an order for this company?s knives (even though they are reputedly nice) when there are SO MANY excellent makers and readily available knives in the similar out there? Nothing says to a company ?get your act together? like a cessation of orders coming in.

4 years to get a knife? Lol, give me a break. If I?m going to wait that long for a knife, it?ll be from Nathan the Machinist at Carothers Performance Knives. Anyone else, oh hell no

I'm not gonna wait "4 years" either. Such is particularly the case in that the one I ordered is supposed to be one of their 'more readily available' models.

As I said earlier in the thread, I have other knives which are perfectly usable. Likewise, I think they have been through a series of bad breaks. In other words, I didn't go into the order either blind or blindly optimistic.

Knives are, like guns, a matter of personal taste and sense of aesthetic. If any ole' blade in a 'similar' size/shape/style will do ya, you're good to go. If you're a bit choosy in terms of size/shape/style, then a certain amount of patience and acquiescence isn't unexpected; even if begrudgingly allowed for.

But, note that I said "a certain amount," not 'indefinite.' As I said above, at the end of May, I figured I'd take a chance; but, I will not be happy if this takes "years" or even if it goes too late into the year to be of use until next season. Where I intend using it, the first, it's gonna stick the rest of the winter snowfall traditionally happens in the first couple of weeks in November, with a token smattering of snow dropping once or twice prior to that in a 'wet/cold/normal' year.

As a result, let's simply say I have a bit of a 'deadline' in mind. Beyond that 'deadline,' I'm going to go from fidgety to grumpy to unhappy to... well... let's not go there.

[rlewpolar]

Originally Posted by TrappedinCalifornia

Not yet. I'm about 3 or 4 days short of the "90 days" from the time of the order and I wouldn't necessarily expect it to come at the 90 day mark. Ship, maybe.

There may be some reason to 'hope' in that he was sending some 4.5 Standards out for heat treat a week ago (18 seconds in on the video)...



A concern I have, not knowing how they actually handle materials, is that the 3 Color Camo G10 scales I put on the order are currently lined off as not available for order on the GSO 4.5 Standard. I'm hoping they simply received enough orders to assign to all the stock they had and won't be 'delaying' orders already placed with those scales.

Another concern is that he's still not talking about the GSO 4.5 Standard, despite it being one of the two offerings, when I ordered, and, now, one of four offerings where they claim on their Production Schedule page...



Coupled with their (finally) updated page where they claim only 29.6% of knives ordered in 2023 have been fulfilled and 33.4% from 2022 have been fulfilled...

Again, I'm hopeful, but far from complacent or confident.

Such is especially true in that he did not specify whether those being sent out for heat treat were intended to fill current orders (not to mention how many orders vs. how many blanks) or if they are going to be 'replacements' for the decarburated 4.5 Standards they used to produce a couple of other versions.

In short, he needs to put out a 4.5 Standard specific video which provides information on that blade. Even at that, proof is in the delivery, not repeated videos about new employees, bad actors, good intentions, etc. I'm willing to cut him a little slack. However...



I'm not gonna wait "4 years" either. Such is particularly the case in that the one I ordered is supposed to be one of their 'more readily available' models.

As I said earlier in the thread, I have other knives which are perfectly usable. Likewise, I think they have been through a series of bad breaks. In other words, I didn't go into the order either blind or blindly optimistic.

Knives are, like guns, a matter of personal taste and sense of aesthetic. If any ole' blade in a 'similar' size/shape/style will do ya, you're good to go. If you're a bit choosy in terms of size/shape/style, then a certain amount of patience and acquiescence isn't unexpected; even if begrudgingly allowed for.

But, note that I said "a certain amount," not 'indefinite.' As I said above, at the end of May, I figured I'd take a chance; but, I will not be happy if this takes "years" or even if it goes too late into the year to be of use until next season. Where I intend using it, the first, it's gonna stick the rest of the winter snowfall traditionally happens in the first couple of weeks in November, with a token smattering of snow dropping once or twice prior to that in a 'wet/cold/normal' year.

As a result, let's simply say I have a bit of a 'deadline' in mind. Beyond that 'deadline,' I'm going to go from fidgety to grumpy to unhappy to... well... let's not go there.

I hope you get it soon and post some pics. They are supposedly very nice knives. Fingers crossed for you


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[TrappedinCalifornia]

Originally Posted by rlewpolar

I hope you get it soon and post some pics. They are supposedly very nice knives. Fingers crossed for you

I hope I get it 'soon' as well.

If and/or when it comes, I planned to review it after some use as several have requested it. However, photos may not happen as I don't have an image hosting service and I don't know if I can post images directly, not knowing how I can do it if it's possible.

Hopefully, as I indicated earlier, there is some kind of update forthcoming, with actual delivery not far behind. I'm edging on really hoping to get this thing and giving it a try.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

Just as an update...

I tried calling SURVIVE! Knives today, looking to see if I could get some sort of update as to where I'm at in the queue, and all I got was a recorded message saying they are hard at work. Interestingly, they claim all 'new' orders will be filled within the 90-day window. Yet, my order was placed in May and their own Production Schedule page indicates less than 1/3 of knives ordered this year have been delivered. Worse. Their automated phone system says their message box is full and cannot accept new messages. In addition, it is still listed as Kellogg, ID and they moved to Pennsylvania from Idaho back in March; i.e., not necessarily indicative of anything, but just another, potential 'warning sign.'

Ostensibly, last month, they hired someone, part-time, to help with 'communication' (along with other things)...



Meanwhile, I'm seeing an host of new videos highlighting knives, including a 'new' one which he openly admits is a direct and near identical version of one they made for an YouTube stalwart "several years ago"...



Now, to be fair, if you watch the 2nd video, the GSO-4.7 predates the Black Scout Survival knife and there are some minor design differences; but, you'll note he claims in the 1st video it is very similar and $100 less. Such just strikes me as 'wrong' in that, regardless of the similarities, one shouldn't be undermining and marketing directly against a 'loyal outlet' over the last several years (see Post #7).

The sense I'm getting is that he's taking all the money, up-front, on pre-orders to operate as actual deliveries have been slooowwww. As I said before, proof is in the delivery, not repeated videos about new employees, bad actors, good intentions, etc. I'm willing to cut him a little slack. However, when your own website claims that 2023 orders have a 29.6% fulfillment as of the beginning of September 2023, that's another 'warning sign.'

Were these 'custom' knives, I'd be a bit more patient. But, these are production knives and, regardless of personal/professional issues, there should be more delivery output and less 'attention distraction' with regard to 'new' offerings intended to attract even more pre-orders. Likewise, if you cannot communicate with your customers directly, especially after taking their money, it does raise questions and concerns. Such is particularly true when there appears to be material 'shortages' in the options for a given blade; e.g., the MagnaCut was lined out for a bit, is now back, but one of the handle options, the one they tout as one of their 'favorite,' has been lined out for quite some time...



They've still got an increasingly limited amount of time before my personal 'deadline;' but, again, for a production blade, even with the production/personal issues, "roughly a 6-9 month wait on yours regardless of what their production schedule says" (see Post #6) is simply unacceptable; particularly given even that 'extended' time frame is far from guaranteed. It's not just about the wait or the time of year decreasing utility for a period, it's about a company which just doesn't seem to have its act together business-wise, even if they have an excellent product (which I have yet to see first-hand).

I'm still hopeful it works out as I have other blades I'd like to order from them. It's just that I'm concerned this may be falling into the category a friend of mine used to refer to with... "Hope in one hand and @#$& in the other and tell me which one fills up first." We'll see.

[drunktank]

I don?t have much faith in the new guy they hired. I sent an email (with order number in the title and attached) to change some scales on one of my orders.

3-4 days later I get a response asking what my order number is because I have several knives on order?I respond back with the order number (which is now listed 3 times in the same email). No response and that was 3 days ago.

At the end of the day they?re my favorite knife maker, custom or not, so I?ll continue to wait since I have a plethora of blades that get used in a daily rotation. But, if a few of Horsewright?s blades that he?s posted go on sale, I?ll have to go that route hahaha.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

Originally Posted by drunktank

I don?t have much faith in the new guy they hired. I sent an email (with order number in the title and attached) to change some scales on one of my orders.

3-4 days later I get a response asking what my order number is because I have several knives on order?I respond back with the order number (which is now listed 3 times in the same email). No response and that was 3 days ago.

At the end of the day they?re my favorite knife maker, custom or not, so I?ll continue to wait since I have a plethora of blades that get used in a daily rotation. But, if a few of Horsewright?s blades that he?s posted go on sale, I?ll have to go that route hahaha.

At least you got an initial response. I've tried on the phone several times and each time, other than being listed someplace they no longer are, I got that the message box is full. I tried leaving a query on their website, but no response. I may try the e-mail route and see what happens; but, it's not looking promising.

Back in the 90's, I worked as a shipper to supplement my regular job and managed to get 100+ packages out in a day. So, I know what's possible on that score and today's shipping environment is even more 'user friendly' in terms of speed. (We won't talk about the computer system then compared to now.)

As I said, it's a bit 'concerning' that they've spent about 10 - 30 seconds in the videos over the last 4 months showing/talking about the GSO 4.5, yet keep coming out with video after video saying they are 'working hard' and 'look at our new design, pre-order now.' I've been going through the various boards and many feel that such is consistent with what I suspect, that they are working from the upfront funding of purchases, but severely behind (or slacking) on actual deliveries. My suspicion is that they may not be able to afford all the materials for the orders they actually have and are doing a song & dance routine by putting out videos, Facebook posts, et al. while only fulfilling a fraction of the actual orders. (Again, 29.6% fulfillment for the year does not speak well, even considering the move.) Couple that with the actual lack of communication, despite his repeated assurances that they are striving for 'greater transparency' makes me a wee bit nervous.

As I said back in June, I might be a bit overly optimistic in that I was hoping for a 3 - 5 month delivery; meaning that 5 months would be delivery by October. Such would leave 'some time' before the first, serious snows where I could, conceivably, still get to some locations. Again, I feel that would be 'realistic' given that it is supposed to be a production blade which, ostensibly, was to be 'regularly' produced while most of the rest of their offerings weren't quite as 'steady.'

They may produce the best knives the World has ever seen; but, if they don't get one into my hands, I'll never know.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

A bit of an update. The company posted an update video...



Okay. I can see stacking product in the back of your car; but, once again, only a passing mention of the knife model I actually ordered. Meanwhile, they've been cranking out videos on new blades (two of which are even noted in the above video).

I get the distinct impression that they are actually operating off of the monies they get from pre-orders and if they don't get sufficient funding from those pre-orders, production grinds down to a snail's pace. My sense is that they aren't keeping themselves fully supplied on materials and are paying for things like the heat treat on existing orders with monies being generated by new orders. Such would 'explain' some of what I'm seeing in their videos and on their website. It would also 'explain' why they appear to be totally unresponsive to phone calls and queries made on their website.

Again, it's concerning that they take all the money upfront, then totally cut off communication, leaving the customer with the impression that they might get the actual product... someday... maybe. We're now headed into the 5th month on what was supposed to be a 90-day order and the above video is the closest thing I can get in terms of a 'status update' on a model which was supposed to be in 'constant production,' along with their chart on fulfilled orders on their Production Schedule page which states they've only fulfilled 29.6% of 2023 orders as of a month ago today; with unfulfilled orders stretching back for years. In short, I have no way of knowing if "my order" is even among those in the back of his car or what they would project as a delivery date even if it is.

In perusing the thread in Post #5 above, it appears I'm not alone in my surmises. What worries me is that some of the more recent posts indicate that disgruntled customers are now speaking with the Pennsylvania Attorney General's office.

As I stated above, I suspect that what feeds the discontent is a combination of over-expectation (both with the customers and the producer), small business meets big demand for a quality product, reasonable intent but undelivered realities, bad luck, need for cash flow, etc. He may be an honest manufacturer; but, there are too many 'red flags' which are difficult to overlook, particularly given that the same 'story' keeps cropping up. Let's just say I've gone from fidgety to grumpy and I'm looking at 'unhappy' from around the corner.