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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 11-29-2019, 4:30 PM
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Scheduling order regulating discovery and other pretrial proceedings
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  #42  
Old 11-29-2019, 5:17 PM
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A reserve in the San Mateo County Sheriffs Office can, and has, deployed his collapsible ASP faster than he can draw. The guy is scary.
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  #43  
Old 03-20-2020, 7:10 PM
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The State of California just submitted its expert report
https://www.scribd.com/document/4525...Brian-Fichtner
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  #44  
Old 03-20-2020, 7:58 PM
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Officer Fitchner can't spell or use punctuation for sheeitt.

Diffuse for defuse, for one example.

We pay these guys, right? And they have at least one degree from a reputable, accredited college/university?
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  #45  
Old 03-21-2020, 2:53 PM
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All I get is "document removed" from Scribd
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  #46  
Old 03-22-2020, 2:04 AM
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here the calguns forum does not let me upload to many docs this way so I normally don't but this should let you direct download the file
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  #47  
Old 03-22-2020, 5:27 PM
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Interesting. Although there are a lot of details on total hours of training for police, I don't see any mention of the actual number of hours of training on a baton or ASP - likely an infinitesimal portion of the overall training. Also, much is made of the baton being less lethal although capable of lethal use - so is a baseball bat. I can walk to the baseball field with a bat. Going smaller, I can carry a hammer all day long if I am a construction worker or, if not, just going to work on a neighbor's deck or any other reason most likely. Mechanics have ratchets all the time and that could make a pretty good striking weapon even smaller than a hammer.
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  #48  
Old 03-22-2020, 8:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnatus View Post
Officer Fitchner can't spell or use punctuation for sheeitt.

Diffuse for defuse, for one example.

We pay these guys, right? And they have at least one degree from a reputable, accredited college/university?
Para legal staff typed it up, and at least three government attorneys wrote reviewed that statement before he signed it.
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  #49  
Old 08-14-2020, 1:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonestargrizzly View Post
Oh hell yea were all getting asps!!!!
kisss my ASP
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  #50  
Old 08-14-2020, 2:12 PM
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What's the status on this?
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  #51  
Old 09-11-2020, 3:46 PM
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summary judgement filed by plaintiffs

https://pdfhost.io/v/JR.HIrCGb_filed_fouts_msjpdf.pdf
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  #52  
Old 09-11-2020, 4:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
summary judgement filed by plaintiffs

https://pdfhost.io/v/JR.HIrCGb_filed_fouts_msjpdf.pdf

Hope they get it .. That ban makes no sense.
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  #53  
Old 09-11-2020, 5:53 PM
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California filed its summary judgement

https://pdfhost.io/v/by870NpC5_fouts...nia_msjpdf.pdf
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  #54  
Old 09-11-2020, 6:29 PM
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Quote:
the State is not aware of any evidence demonstrating that billy clubs are in common use for lawful purposes like self-defense;
I think most police carry or at least did carry at one time a baton, but that doesn't matter.
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  #55  
Old 09-12-2020, 1:41 AM
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I would love to be able to throw an ASP in my pocket for my evening walks due to the state of CA saying I can't legally bring my gun. Such a silly law.
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  #56  
Old 09-13-2020, 9:17 AM
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Quote:
A billy is a cylindrical stick or club made of wood, rubber, plastic, or metal that can be used as an intermediate-force compliance tool or weapon.
How vague is that? That covers, what, ski poles? golf clubs? dowels? house plumbing? sprinkler plumbing? canes? garden stakes? Literally hundreds of everyday items that I never mentioned?
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  #57  
Old 09-13-2020, 7:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by librarian72 View Post
How vague is that? That covers, what, ski poles? golf clubs? dowels? house plumbing? sprinkler plumbing? canes? garden stakes? Literally hundreds of everyday items that I never mentioned?
It is perfect. If you have an elongated object in your possession they can throw another charge at you.

Soviet Union school of law.
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  #58  
Old 09-13-2020, 7:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Offwidth View Post
It is perfect. If you have an elongated object in your possession they can throw another charge at you.

Soviet Union school of law.
Note: Keep trousers zipped; wear long shirts untitled.
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  #59  
Old 09-13-2020, 8:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by librarian72 View Post
How vague is that? That covers, what, ski poles? golf clubs? dowels? house plumbing? sprinkler plumbing? canes? garden stakes? Literally hundreds of everyday items that I never mentioned?
But, CalCrim 2500 guidelines explain this:
Quote:
Element 3 contains the requirement that the defendant know that the object is a weapon. A more complete discussion of this issue is provided in the Commentary section below. Select alternative 3A if the object is capable of innocent uses. In such cases, the court has a sua sponte duty to instruct on when an object is possessed “as a weapon.” (People v. Fannin, supra, 91 Cal.App.4th at p. 1404; People v. Grubb (1965) 63 Cal.2d 614, 620–621, fn. 9 [47 Cal.Rptr. 772, 408 P.2d100].) Select alternative 3B if the object “has no conceivable innocent function” (People v. Fannin (2001) 91 Cal.App.4th 1399, 1405 [111 Cal.Rptr.2d 496]), or when the item is specifically designed to be one of the weapons defined in the Penal Code(see People v. Gaitan (2001) 92 Cal.App.4th 540, 547 [111 Cal.Rptr.2d 885]).

Commentary:

Element 3—Knowledge. “Intent to use a weapon is not an element of the crime of weapon possession.” (People v. Fannin (2001) 91 Cal.App.4th 1399, 1404 [111 Cal.Rptr.2d 496].) However, interpreting now-repealed Penal Code section 12020(a)(4), possession a concealed dirk or dagger, the Supreme Court stated that “[a] defendant who does not know that he is carrying the weapon or that the concealed instrument may be used as a stabbing weapon is . . . not guilty of violating section 12020.” (People v.Rubalcava (2000) 23 Cal.4th 322, 331–332 [96 Cal.Rptr.2d 735, 1 P.3d 52].) Applying this holding to possession of other weapons prohibited under now-repealed Penal Code section 12020(a), the courts have concluded that the defendant must know that the object is a weapon or may be used as a weapon, or must possess the object “as a weapon.” (People v. Gaitan (2001) 92 Cal.App.4th 540,547 [111 Cal.Rptr.2d 885]; People v. Taylor (2001) 93 Cal.App.4th 933, 941 [114Cal.Rptr.2d 23]; People v. Fannin, supra, 91 Cal.App.4th at p. 1404.) In People v. Gaitan, supra, 92 Cal.App.4th at p. 547, for example, the court considered the possession of “metal knuckles,” defined in now-repealed Penal Code section 12020(c)(7) as an object “worn for purposes of offense or defense.” The court held that the prosecution does not have to prove that the defendant intended to use the object for offense or defense but must prove that the defendant knew that “the instrument may be used for purposes of offense or defense.” (Id. at p. 547.) Similarly, in People v. Taylor, supra, 93 Cal.App.4th at p. 941, involving possession of a cane sword, the court held that “[i]n order to protect against the significant possibility of punishing innocent possession by one who believes he or she simply has an ordinary cane, we infer the Legislature intended a scienter requirement ofactual knowledge that the cane conceals a sword.” Finally, People v. Fannin, supra, 91 Cal.App.4th at p. 1404, considered whether a bicycle chain with a lock at the end met the definition of a “slungshot.” The court held that “if the object is not a weapon per se, but an instrument with ordinary innocent uses, the prosecution must prove that the object was possessed as a weapon.” (Ibid. [emphasis in original]; see also People v. Grubb (1965) 63 Cal.2d614, 620–621 [47 Cal.Rptr. 772, 408 P.2d 100] [possession of modified baseballbat].)
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  #60  
Old 10-22-2020, 12:26 PM
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Hearing on MSJ rescheduled to 2020 Dec 07.

https://www.ammoland.com/2020/10/ban...#axzz6bcqbsGAL
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  #61  
Old 10-22-2020, 5:15 PM
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Might as well order our ASP’s now before there is a run on them! Christmas presents might come early
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  #62  
Old 11-21-2020, 3:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnatus View Post
3-cell or 4-cell?
6 or7
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  #63  
Old 12-13-2020, 11:05 PM
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Hearing on MSJ rescheduled to 2020 Dec 07.

https://www.ammoland.com/2020/10/ban...#axzz6bcqbsGAL
How’d it go?

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  #64  
Old 12-13-2020, 11:45 PM
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I believe it was postponed to January due to COVID-19 concerns. I’ll look it up on PACER tomorrow.
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  #65  
Old 12-14-2020, 6:46 AM
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Pacer monitor:
Quote:
Thursday, December 10, 2020
29 motion Amend/Correct Thu 12/10 12:19 AM
Joint MOTION to Amend/Correct16 Scheduling Order, by Xavier Becerra. (Echeverria, John) (mme)


Sunday, December 06, 2020
28 notice Notice of Hearing on Motion Sun 12/06 8:43 PM
MINUTE ORDER issued by the Honorable Roger T. Benitez: Due to the COVID-19 lockdown measures imposed by California Governor Gavin Newsom, the Motion Hearing currently set for 12/7/2020 is reset for 1/13/2021 10:30 AM in Courtroom 5A before Judge Roger T. Benitez as to the following motions:21 MOTION for Summary Judgment ,22 MOTION for Summary Judgment . (no document attached) (gxr)
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  #66  
Old 12-14-2020, 12:27 PM
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Thx
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  #67  
Old 12-22-2020, 12:32 PM
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Anyone have a link to online streaming?
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  #68  
Old 12-22-2020, 12:37 PM
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The Southern District Court’s proceedings are usually not live-streamed, but you can contact the court clerk to see if a link will be made available to you.
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  #69  
Old 12-30-2020, 6:45 AM
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Sending good vibes on this one. Pending success would this ruling allow for extendable batons or are they some other sort of classification since they have moving parts?
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  #70  
Old 01-10-2021, 1:22 PM
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10:30am Wednesday!

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  #71  
Old 01-11-2021, 1:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
10:30am Wednesday!

Benitez will rule in law abiding citizens favor and then the state will drag it to another 4 years.
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  #72  
Old 01-11-2021, 1:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
A Second Amendment challenge to California's ban on batons got filed today

https://www.scribd.com/document/4243...ment-Complaint
Can somebody RECAP or post the pdf (if they haven't already) TIA!
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  #73  
Old 01-11-2021, 1:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
California filed its summary judgement

https://pdfhost.io/v/by870NpC5_fouts...nia_msjpdf.pdf
This appears to be a memorandum in support, not a judgement itself, correct?
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  #74  
Old 01-13-2021, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
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10:30am Wednesday!

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  #75  
Old 01-13-2021, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curtisfong View Post
Can somebody RECAP or post the pdf (if they haven't already) TIA!
Done, but you get the next one:
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket...=&order_by=asc

Just PSA: Anyone can setup a PACER account, and if you don't exceed $30 in quarterly charges then you won't be charged.
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  #76  
Old 01-13-2021, 5:34 PM
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For the lazy ones, “Two more weeks”
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  #77  
Old 01-13-2021, 6:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladiver View Post
For the lazy ones, “Two more weeks”
No, it is two more months, plus two more weeks. 5X :
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