Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Curio & Relic/Black Powder
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-15-2019, 12:14 PM
Dynamic Dynamic is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 819
iTrader: 17 / 100%
Default Sino Soviet SKS C&R Status

Hey guys, i need some clarification on a factory 26 Chinese sino Soviet sks. Would this be considered C&R and ok to purchase locally from an individual with my 03 and Coe? I searched on calguns but am reading conflicting reports on the status.

Has any one registered one successfully with their 03 ?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-15-2019, 3:22 PM
hifiguns hifiguns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 269
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Changing my post based on this Why the Chinese SKS is not C&R. My ghost was sold by distributor as C&R, apparently a special import from the Albanian lot. Check this site Chinese SKS

Last edited by hifiguns; 03-15-2019 at 3:48 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-15-2019, 3:26 PM
Spaffo's Avatar
Spaffo Spaffo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,126
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Some Chinese SKS are not yet C&R. Have to check the serial number.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-15-2019, 4:06 PM
boris badinov's Avatar
boris badinov boris badinov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 590
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Post a photo of the serial number.

If you can't post photos, tell us everything stamped on the left side of the receiver.

Any Chinese SKS that can be dated to 1968 or earlier will be eligible for C&R -- granted that the rifle is in original configuration.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-15-2019, 4:11 PM
Dynamic Dynamic is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 819
iTrader: 17 / 100%
Default

It is a Six digit serial number 2705xx , blade bayo with triangle 26 on the receiver.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-15-2019, 4:18 PM
boris badinov's Avatar
boris badinov boris badinov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 590
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynamic View Post
It is a Six digit serial number 2705xx , blade bayo with triangle 26 on the receiver.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
That would make the year of production 1957-- 100% eligible for C&R if it is still in original configuration. Doesn't have to be matching, just original configuration.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-15-2019, 4:24 PM
empirearms's Avatar
empirearms empirearms is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 172
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boris badinov View Post
That would make the year of production 1957-- 100% eligible for C&R if it is still in original configuration. Doesn't have to be matching, just original configuration.
Sorry, but since China refuses to share their serial # database (along with verifiable dates of manufacture) with ATF, no SKS is considered Curio & Relic eligible *UNLESS* absolute PROOF is shown that it existed before 1969 (such as capture-papers or, as in the case of the Albanian imports, a dated receipt from 1961).

MANY folks believe that the first two digits in the serial number rfelate to years of issue, but ATF absolutely refuses to agree!
__________________
Dennis Kroh, owner
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-15-2019, 4:30 PM
69Mach1's Avatar
69Mach1 69Mach1 is offline
Super Moderator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles County
Posts: 15,037
iTrader: 411 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boris badinov View Post
That would make the year of production 1957-- 100% eligible for C&R if it is still in original configuration. Doesn't have to be matching, just original configuration.
Can I please get a source for this. Just curious.
__________________

69Mach1
munkeeboi
TURBOELKY
antix2
WTSGDYBBR
tujungatoes
jmpgnr24K
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-15-2019, 4:32 PM
empirearms's Avatar
empirearms empirearms is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 172
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boris badinov View Post
That would make the year of production 1957-- 100% eligible for C&R if it is still in original configuration. Doesn't have to be matching, just original configuration.
Sorry, but since China refuses to share their serial # database (along with verifiable dates of manufacture) with ATF, no SKS is considered Curio & Relic eligible *UNLESS* absolute PROOF is shown that it existed before 1969 (such as capture-papers or, as in the case of the Albanian imports, a dated receipt from 1961).

MANY folks believe that the first two digits in the serial number relate to years of issue, but ATF absolutely refuses to agree!
__________________
Dennis Kroh, owner
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-15-2019, 4:39 PM
boris badinov's Avatar
boris badinov boris badinov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 590
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Various sources: Beginning with the thousands and thousands of Chinese Type56's that came to the US via Albanian between 2012-2015.

Literally tens of thousands of Chinese type56's were allowed to enter the US as C&R guns because they were sufficiently proven to have cleared the 50year requirement. I bought about 17 of them-- ALL of them as C&R guns.

(the real kicker here is that the dating info provided to the ATF at the time was incorrect by 1 year)

Once the Albanian cache arrived, the true date research began in earnest.

The result being this more accurate dating theory for the Chinese sks can be found here:

http://chinesesks.weebly.com/dating-...inese-sks.html

It can be applied to 99% of the standard configuration Type56's-- regardless of arsenal number.

Last edited by boris badinov; 03-15-2019 at 4:59 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-15-2019, 4:40 PM
boris badinov's Avatar
boris badinov boris badinov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 590
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by empirearms View Post
Sorry, but since China refuses to share their serial # database (along with verifiable dates of manufacture) with ATF, no SKS is considered Curio & Relic eligible *UNLESS* absolute PROOF is shown that it existed before 1969 (such as capture-papers or, as in the case of the Albanian imports, a dated receipt from 1961).

MANY folks believe that the first two digits in the serial number relate to years of issue, but ATF absolutely refuses to agree!
Apparently, you have been away from the sks community for at least the last six years.

Last edited by boris badinov; 03-15-2019 at 4:46 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-15-2019, 4:50 PM
boris badinov's Avatar
boris badinov boris badinov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 590
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

China doesn't need to release much of anything in order to interpret a date specific serialization formula:

arsenal stamp + Nth year of production + quantity

Pretty darn simple, IYAM.

Last edited by boris badinov; 03-15-2019 at 4:58 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-15-2019, 4:57 PM
69Mach1's Avatar
69Mach1 69Mach1 is offline
Super Moderator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles County
Posts: 15,037
iTrader: 411 / 100%
Default

There was a batch a couple of years ago. Maybe last year. I think one source was J&G sales. My friend bought one with his C&R.
__________________

69Mach1
munkeeboi
TURBOELKY
antix2
WTSGDYBBR
tujungatoes
jmpgnr24K
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-15-2019, 5:43 PM
aeropro90 aeropro90 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 197
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

usually but not ALWAYS! any sks with a blade type bayonet is C&R.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-15-2019, 5:56 PM
John Browning's Avatar
John Browning John Browning is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: California to Tennessee...back to California
Posts: 7,989
iTrader: 84 / 100%
Default

These are absolutely C&R and really nice rifles aside from the junky Chinese stocks.
__________________
For Sale: Off Roster Handgun Moving Sale

For Sale: Off Roster CZ, Browning, PTR 91 Moving Sale

Quote:
Originally Posted by KWalkerM View Post
eh why bring logic into this, that makes too much sense... besides when you have bested a fool, you have accomplished nothing and he is a fool.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-15-2019, 7:27 PM
boris badinov's Avatar
boris badinov boris badinov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 590
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
Jammamatic commie junk. Don’t bother. I never understood Calguns members and their fixation on these third world monstrosities.
Boo. Hiss.

I'll grant the jammo-matic review-- for the commercial mods only (ak mags variants, really)

Absolutely unfounded for the standard configuration model though.


10-12million made. With a documented 50+ year military service history (70 years if you include irregular forces).

Can't go wrong with that.

ESPECIALLY in California.

Last edited by boris badinov; 03-15-2019 at 7:30 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-15-2019, 7:34 PM
Tere_Hanges's Avatar
Tere_Hanges Tere_Hanges is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: CLASSIFIED
Posts: 5,797
iTrader: 43 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boris badinov View Post
Boo. Hiss.

I'll grant the jammo-matic review-- for the commercial mods only (ak mags variants, really)

Absolutely unfounded for the standard configuration model though.


10-12million made. With a documented 50+ year military service history (70 years if you include irregular forces).

Can't go wrong with that.

ESPECIALLY in California.
I love my Arsenal 26. Its a classic well built 7.62x39 semiauto that easily reloads with a 10rd stripper clip. Whats not to like?

I also had a very early Sino soviet "ghost" that came from Albania with a Tula dust cover. Those guns have chrome lined bores in pristine condition. Carried a lot, not shot very often. I'd have a hard time passing one up for under $300. One of the best milsurps ever made. I definitely would buy one over a 91/30, anyday. Refurbed Mosins are going for almost the same price now. Rediculous. At least I dont have to worry bout the handguard slipping off everytime I shoot it like you do with a Mosin. And finding cheap noncorrosive ammo is really easy.
__________________
CRPA and NRA member.

Don't argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. I don't respond to posts/posters that aren't worth responding to.

Last edited by Tere_Hanges; 03-19-2019 at 7:21 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-19-2019, 5:54 PM
empirearms's Avatar
empirearms empirearms is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 172
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Thumbs down Boris, Boris, Boris . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by boris badinov View Post
Apparently, you have been away from the sks community for at least the last six years.
Hardly . . . been MUCH BUSIER than I want to be buying and selling many THOUSANDS of guns over the past six years (including HUNDREDS of SKS carbines).

I *AGREE* that the sino-soviet SKS carbines should qualify as Curios & Relics because of their age. . . but UNTIL the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives (ATFE) rules that they ARE, they ARE NOT, no matter WHAT you think or believe!

ATF simply DOES NOT know when these were made, because China will not tell them.

UNTIL you can publish an ATFE LETTER that confirms your theories, they are only theories.

PLEASE ask the ATF for a letter confirming your serial-number sequence, otherwise STOP TELLING FOLKS TO BREAK FEDERAL LAWS!

By the way, calling ATF will do absolutely no good, as a verbal opinion isn't worth the paper it is (not) written on.
__________________
Dennis Kroh, owner

Last edited by empirearms; 03-19-2019 at 5:56 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-19-2019, 6:25 PM
Bart1015 Bart1015 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Sonoma - Marin Counties
Posts: 216
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

For what its worth, I bought 2 SKS rifles both are Chinese "factory 26" from J&G in 2013 with my C&R without any issues.

When I ordered the guns they told me they were approved as C&R status from ATF. I have no reason to doubt them.

But, unless the buyer/seller knows they came from the ones recently imported I would only do a standard FFL transfer.


Brett
__________________
Certified Polygraph Examiner. I provide services for Criminal and Civil Litigation, Private Businesses, Law Enforcement/Fire Pre-Employment screening, Fidelity Concerns, and other types of Family Disputes.


http://ToThePointPolygraph.com
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-19-2019, 6:28 PM
boris badinov's Avatar
boris badinov boris badinov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 590
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Tsk, tsk, tsk,

Essentially the same as the ads that started running in 2012, but now they have spike bayonets instead of blades. Thanks in large part to the serial dating theory submitted to and cleared by the BATF:




Have you really been under a rock for the last 8 years?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-19-2019, 6:33 PM
boris badinov's Avatar
boris badinov boris badinov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 590
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by empirearms View Post
Hardly . . . been MUCH BUSIER than I want to be buying and selling many THOUSANDS of guns over the past six years (including HUNDREDS of SKS carbines).

I *AGREE* that the sino-soviet SKS carbines should qualify as Curios & Relics because of their age. . . but UNTIL the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives (ATFE) rules that they ARE, they ARE NOT, no matter WHAT you think or believe!

ATF simply DOES NOT know when these were made, because China will not tell them.

UNTIL you can publish an ATFE LETTER that confirms your theories, they are only theories.

PLEASE ask the ATF for a letter confirming your serial-number sequence, otherwise STOP TELLING FOLKS TO BREAK FEDERAL LAWS!

By the way, calling ATF will do absolutely no good, as a verbal opinion isn't worth the paper it is (not) written on.
@empirearms--
If you are in the business of selling firearms, I highly suggest you reacquaint yourself with the BATF guidelines on how C&R works.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-19-2019, 6:36 PM
boris badinov's Avatar
boris badinov boris badinov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 590
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

@empirearms--

In case ya missed it:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios-relics

[Mic drop]
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-19-2019, 7:26 PM
TRICKSTER's Avatar
TRICKSTER TRICKSTER is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Palomino Vally, Pah-Rah Mountains, NV
Posts: 12,438
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boris badinov View Post
@empirearms--
If you are in the business of selling firearms, I highly suggest you reacquaint yourself with the BATF guidelines on how C&R works.
The SKS's that Classic has are military turn ins which most likely have documentation as to how long that countries military had them being used to prove that they are over 50 years old just like the last batch from Albania.

Before you continue bashing a well known C&R dealer with decades of knowledge and experience dealing with C&R firearms, let me ask you. Do you have documentation or personal knowledge of the ATF accepting the Chinese serial numbers for proof of the manufacturing year?
__________________


Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-19-2019, 7:38 PM
boris badinov's Avatar
boris badinov boris badinov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 590
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
The SKS's that Classic has are military turn ins which most likely have documentation as to how long that countries military had them being used to prove that they are over 50 years old just like the last batch from Albania.

Before you continue bashing a well known C&R dealer with decades of knowledge and experience dealing with C&R firearms, let me ask you. Do you have documentation or personal knowledge of the ATF accepting the Chinese serial numbers for proof of the manufacturing year?
This subject has been discussed ad nauseum on at least five other forums for about the last 8 years.

Steve Kehaya is a member on gunboards-- (SteveK). He worked for one of the importers of the previous Albanian caches. He physically went to Albania and hand selected thousands of guns for the US market. They were selected by serial dating formula that was submitted to the BATF at the time. Also, at that time, the dating info and research was largely conjecture, and later proven to be off by one year and has also been proven to apply to all arsenals. From his own first hand experience, the C&R eleigible guns were chosen by serial dating method alone.

Last edited by boris badinov; 03-26-2019 at 2:42 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-19-2019, 7:57 PM
boris badinov's Avatar
boris badinov boris badinov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 590
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Also, the BATF isn't in the business of listing every firearm that gains C&R status by virtue of age alone.

All that is required by the BATF is some means of substantiating the age of a given firearm or type of firearm. Given that the dating info provided in 2011 was based on little to no corroborated evidence and has since been proven inaccurate, it would seem that the BATF's burden of proof isn't very strict.

[see the BATF C&R link I provided above]

I had no idea that there were still folks out there, let alone actual firearms dealers, who missed every inch of the last 8 years worth of developments and the resulting schism in the SKS collecting community.

There are, quite literally, thousands of threads in the online collecting forums about this. There is ZERO doubt that the Chinese guns were granted C&R status by virtue of their age as determined by the serial dating forumla.

The only debates that still exists are:

1) Which of the two dating methods is correct. One is an actual theory, the other simply a hypothesis. (answer: the theory).

AND

2) Whether the dating methods can be applied to arsenals other than state factory /26\. (answer: yes)

Last edited by boris badinov; 03-19-2019 at 8:00 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-19-2019, 8:00 PM
TRICKSTER's Avatar
TRICKSTER TRICKSTER is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Palomino Vally, Pah-Rah Mountains, NV
Posts: 12,438
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

The Albanian guns were accepted as C&R by ATF because there was documentation showing that they had been in Albania's possession for over 50 years, not because of any serial number interpitation.
__________________


Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-19-2019, 8:10 PM
boris badinov's Avatar
boris badinov boris badinov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 590
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
The Albanian guns were accepted as C&R by ATF because there was documentation showing that they had been in Albania's possession for over 50 years, not because of any serial number interpitation.
You are 100% wrong, my friend. It's been common knowledge for nearly a decade now that the Sino-Albanian cache is C&R by virtue of serial dating formula alone.

You can ask Steve Kehaya yourself. He physically went to Albania in 2011 and hand selected thousands of rifles by virtue of age indicated by the serial numbers on the guns.

He's an active member on gunboards.com under the screen name SteveK.

Last edited by boris badinov; 03-26-2019 at 2:42 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-19-2019, 9:05 PM
empirearms's Avatar
empirearms empirearms is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 172
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Boris,

SHOW ME an ATF letter that states ANY Chinese SKS carbines (aside from the ones imported along with an original invoice showing they existed before 1969) and I will believe what you say, but until then please SHUT UP!

You are actually doing more HARM than GOOD!

I REALLY WANT them to be labeled C&R eligible so I can sell them unhindered to the C&R licensed individuals in 48 of our states (not including California & New Jersey, so far)!
__________________
Dennis Kroh, owner
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-19-2019, 9:24 PM
boris badinov's Avatar
boris badinov boris badinov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 590
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by empirearms View Post
Boris,

SHOW ME an ATF letter that states ANY Chinese SKS carbines (aside from the ones imported along with an original invoice showing they existed before 1969) and I will believe what you say, but until then please SHUT UP!

You are actually doing more HARM than GOOD!

I REALLY WANT them to be labeled C&R eligible so I can sell them unhindered to the C&R licensed individuals in 48 of our states (not including California & New Jersey, so far)!
Quoting directly from the BATF website linked above:

"Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF's C&R list. Therefore, ATF does not generally list firearms in the C&R publication by virtue of their age."

They don't publish anything on firearms that are C&R by virtue of age. The importers are simply required to provide an explanation of the dating method they are using.

Again, ask Steve Kehaya. He worked for Century Arms. In 2011 he went to Albania and personally hand selected thousands of rifles for US import. They were 100% selected by virtue of age determined by serial number. This is 100% fact. It is not disputed, ever. They were selected by date according to serial dating formula that the Chinese used for many of their military arms.

This is very entertaining.

I would like to know where you heard about this dated invoice BS. Do you have a source in China, Albania or with one of the importers. In eight years no such invoice has ever surfaced in discussion, nor have I ever heard it referenced (until this thread, that is).

Last edited by boris badinov; 03-26-2019 at 2:42 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-19-2019, 9:43 PM
empirearms's Avatar
empirearms empirearms is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 172
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Boris,

Since Chinese SKS carbines DO NOT bear a date of manufacture on them, and since China will not supply the serial number information that corraborates your "theory" on serial numbers, ATF DOES NOT consider ANY Chinese SKS to be C&R unless there is PROOF that they were in existance before 1969.

Theories ARE NOT proof!

I held an importers license for many years, so I am NOT GUESSING (as you obviously are). My livelihood is at stake . . . I do this for a living, not as a casual hobby!

I just do not want ANY of my customers NAILED for violating any regulations based on erroneous info (such as you continue to provide) on this or any other forum or website.

Please be responsible, that is all I ask.

Any PROOF of manufacturing data would be welcomed by ATF, and they would THEN likely recind their opinion, but AS OF NOW, with very few exceptions, Chinese SKS carbines ARE NOT qualified as C&R by ATF.

PROVE ME WRONG!
__________________
Dennis Kroh, owner
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 03-19-2019, 9:43 PM
boris badinov's Avatar
boris badinov boris badinov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 590
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
The Albanian guns were accepted as C&R by ATF because there was documentation showing that they had been in Albania's possession for over 50 years, not because of any serial number interpitation.
Where is the proof of this "documentation" bull crap?

Let me guess: You heard it from a guy who knows a guy who heard it from another guy?
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 03-19-2019, 9:59 PM
boris badinov's Avatar
boris badinov boris badinov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 590
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Dude, I can't make up for your lack of intellectual prowess, or curiosity.

ASK Steve Kehaya.

He worked for Century Arms. He went to Albania in 2011. He hand selected thousands of rifle for import. The means of selection was the age of each rifle as determined by the serial number formula.

He is a member on gunboards.com. (SteveK). This has been discussed voluminously on that forum and many others

If you don't want to ask him, then start a thread over there and see how quickly you get checked with your hearsay hypothesis of Albanian receipts and bills of laden. I promise not to post in the thread if you start one.

Literally tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of Chinese guns in the US (some pre ban guns and bringbacks, too) are now eligible for C&R status by virtue of the serial dating formula.

Last edited by boris badinov; 03-26-2019 at 2:43 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 03-19-2019, 10:20 PM
boris badinov's Avatar
boris badinov boris badinov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 590
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I have given you the name of someone from Century Arms that you can ask.

Or you can start a thread on gunboards.com or over at sks-files.com

Any reason why you can't do that?

It seems to me that asking one of the Century Arms employees who went to Albania to select the rifles for C&R import would be the best person to ask.

It literally doesn't get any straighter from the horse's mouth than that.

Last edited by boris badinov; 03-19-2019 at 10:24 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 03-20-2019, 6:57 AM
19K 19K is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,566
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by empirearms View Post
Hardly . . . been MUCH BUSIER than I want to be buying and selling many THOUSANDS of guns over the past six years (including HUNDREDS of SKS carbines).

I *AGREE* that the sino-soviet SKS carbines should qualify as Curios & Relics because of their age. . . but UNTIL the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives (ATFE) rules that they ARE, they ARE NOT, no matter WHAT you think or believe!

ATF simply DOES NOT know when these were made, because China will not tell them.

UNTIL you can publish an ATFE LETTER that confirms your theories, they are only theories.

PLEASE ask the ATF for a letter confirming your serial-number sequence, otherwise STOP TELLING FOLKS TO BREAK FEDERAL LAWS!

By the way, calling ATF will do absolutely no good, as a verbal opinion isn't worth the paper it is (not) written on.
I bought my as C&R eligible from Royal Tiger Imports.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 03-20-2019, 7:03 AM
19K 19K is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,566
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Link from way back machine stating they were C&R eligible. https://web.archive.org/web/20150208...p/sksk0045.htm

From RTI in 2015

Last edited by 19K; 03-20-2019 at 7:08 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 03-20-2019, 9:15 AM
boris badinov's Avatar
boris badinov boris badinov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 590
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

@empirearms-- HERE IS YOUR PROOF. Straight from the fingertips of Steve Kehaya himself. He personally hand selected the Albanian C&R guns according to a serial dating formula.

Here is a link to a thread on gunboards where member, SteveK 'splains it:

https://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...n-country-soon

Of particular interest are Steve Kehaya's replies:

#14: "There are more Chinese SKS carbines in Albania. Most are waiting for their 50th birthday to be importable. I'm not sure what the current administration there thinks of exporting arms. I do know that NATO and other agencies would rather have them destroyed (seen that many times around the world).
As to more Albanian built guns, I bought all the guns at the factory years ago. There weren't any left in the main warehouse or the caves around the capitol . There may be some in the outer bases but I'm not sure.
SteveK
"

#18: "Boris, most were Factory 26 which is a good thing, in this case, since Import Branch uses the year of manufacture based on the formula in our book "The SKS Carbine". Nobody has come up with a listing of manufacture dates for any other factory (that I'm aware of) so I doubt they will come in for a long while. The Government is very strict on this issue. I had to inspect and sign off on the carbines brought in by Century twice.
SteveK
"


#20 "As you stated, the burden of proof is with the importer. He (they) would submit their evidence and see if BATF Technical Branch agrees. Don't kid yourself.....anything that the government handles takes mucho effort!!
SteveK
"

The bold faced text shows without a doubt

1: That the importers provided their own dating proof to the BATF. (The BATF is under no obligation to publish any of it.)
2: The dating formula used was published decades ago in the book that Kehoe and co-author Joe Poyer first put out in almost three decades ago.


Oddly enough, it was largely because of the Sino-Albanian imports that Steve Kehoe played a vital role in acquiring, that aided further research into the Chinese serial dating formula. Research which has since demonstrated that Kehoe and Poyer's longheld dating hypothesis was incorrect in two significant ways.

1: The "56+Millions place holder" method was off by one year.
2: The dating method can absolutely be applied to 99% of the Chinese guns and not just the guns from arsenal /26\.

Every year a new serial range turns 50. All of the 1968 guns became eligible on january 1st of this year. And all of the 1969 guns will be eligible on January 1st, 2020.

All that really matters with these most recent guns is which serial dating formula are they using? The incorrect, hypothesis from 2011? Or the research verified theory that was published in great detail post 2013?

bee-tee-dubs: here's a link to the research verified theory. It's hasn't been updated in several years. But in the intervening years evidentiary basis, has only grown more solid:
http://chinesesks.weebly.com/dating-...inese-sks.html


When the BATF signed off on Kehoe's dating formula they gave tacit approval for the the C&R eligibility with each subsequent year as described in the formula.

Last edited by boris badinov; 03-26-2019 at 2:44 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 03-20-2019, 2:31 PM
boris badinov's Avatar
boris badinov boris badinov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 590
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

@empirearms-

Do you have any proof for your own claim?
Receipts? Bills of lading? Some kind of statement written by one of the importers? Maybe a written C&R request submitted to the BATF?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 03-20-2019, 5:29 PM
boris badinov's Avatar
boris badinov boris badinov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 590
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Crickets.

Cue tumbleweeds...
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 03-21-2019, 12:57 AM
boris badinov's Avatar
boris badinov boris badinov is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 590
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

https://youtu.be/K8E_zMLCRNg
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 03-21-2019, 5:49 AM
empirearms's Avatar
empirearms empirearms is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 172
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boris badinov View Post
Crickets.

Cue tumbleweeds...
OBVIOUSLY you have nothing better to do than to pursue this insanity.

I am too busy LEGALLY buying and selling military firearms to happy customers than to waste any more of my precious time on this issue.

YOU have ZERO evidence to support your theory other than "I heard it from a guy".

By the way, I post in this forum under my real name, and the photo of me is what I look like most of the time. I do not utilize the guise of a cartoon character, nor do I attack the credibility of someone who is extremely prominent in this hobby and whom you have obviously never met and have ZERO respect for.

I do not post in this (or any other) forum UNLESS I feel that I am being HELPFUL, and (as an officer and a gentleman) I ALWAYS tell the truth.

It is not my aim to get into "pissing contests" with ANONYMOUS folks who have nothing better to do.

Stick a fork in me, I'm done. . .
__________________
Dennis Kroh, owner

Last edited by empirearms; 03-21-2019 at 6:08 AM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:24 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy