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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #1  
Old 05-11-2019, 11:33 PM
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Default Joining the LPR club. Howa HCR 6.5 Creedmoor, range report and pictures.

When I heard about the Turners opening in Roseville, I decided to make the trek from my current residence in Lake County back to where I grew up in the Sac area. I had my eye on the Howa HCR and the Savage 10 Stealth, both in 6.5 Creedmoor. I have been wanting a 6.5CM bolt gun for years now, and at those prices, it's hard to say no. Ended up picking up one of each...

But here's the Howa:









Anyway I got to pick it up yesterday and put on a 20MOA Nightforce Rail and a 9-13, swapped out the grip for the LUTH-AR Chubby Grip, and put my SWFA SS 10x42 on (still saving for the 5-20x50 HD).





Tried out Hornady Match ELD-M 120, 140, and 147 grains, and Hornady Precision Hunter 143 grains. I waited for the barrel to cool between each group and maintained shooting position for each set except the first group, because I was sighting the rifle (perfect second shot correction, yay for MilQuad scope and Mil Reticle spotting scope.

https://youtu.be/1TXgw__uZDM">https://youtu.be/1TXgw__uZDM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350">

First shot (which I actually didn't know she was recording, thought she was looking through the spotting scope.)



Groups, in order shot (decided by G7 Ballistic Coefficients in ascending order)





120gr: 1.58MOA



143gr: 1.24MOA



140gr: 1.30MOA



147gr: 1.76MOA



PLEASE NOTE: This doesn't necessarily indicate the maximum potential of the rifle or the ammunition. I'm not an expert, though I always aim for best marksmanship practices. this was a brand new rifle hasn't been broken in yet. This is factory ammunition (premium match grade). However these are only 5 shot groups and a very small sample. I'll try to add pictures of the groups and the rifle to the video later.



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Last edited by Exdc; 05-13-2019 at 9:34 PM..
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  #2  
Old 05-12-2019, 6:08 AM
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Beautiful rifle. Videos arent linked. Tried to copy and paste them, and wouldn’t work either.
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Old 05-12-2019, 6:17 AM
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Beautiful rifle Sir! I too went with the SWFA 10x SS scope on my LRPR per the recommendations of some serious pros that shoot LR at my range. Amazing amount of scope for the money. There is a guy on the internet that sells a return to zero stop shim kit for the scope. Some googling will find him. I use his shims in mine.
Have fun!


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Old 05-12-2019, 7:39 AM
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Default Joining the LPR club. Howa HCR 6.5 Creedmoor, range report and pictures.

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Originally Posted by audiopro74 View Post
Beautiful rifle. Videos arent linked. Tried to copy and paste them, and wouldn’t work either.


Thanks! Try the videos now? Works on my phone and pc. Some bugs with the bbcode that broke the links, but everything looks okay now.

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Originally Posted by nitroxdiver View Post
Beautiful rifle Sir! I too went with the SWFA 10x SS scope on my LRPR per the recommendations of some serious pros that shoot LR at my range. Amazing amount of scope for the money. There is a guy on the internet that sells a return to zero stop shim kit for the scope. Some googling will find him. I use his shims in mine.
Have fun!



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Thanks! I have the shims actually (: And yes, the scopes are a huge value. I like that I can put one on each rifle.



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Legislator "logic":
Quote:
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Before long, the Feds via A.D.A. will probably require manufacturers to include Braille markings to accommodate blind shooters.....

Last edited by Exdc; 05-12-2019 at 1:26 PM..
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  #5  
Old 05-12-2019, 8:23 AM
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Nice!
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Old 05-12-2019, 12:20 PM
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Heres the shim set. Looks like he has an ebay store now.
https://www.ebay.com/p/Zero-Stop-Shi...e64116ff882bd1


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Old 05-12-2019, 1:26 PM
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Heres the shim set. Looks like he has an ebay store now.
https://www.ebay.com/p/Zero-Stop-Shi...e64116ff882bd1


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That's where I bought them, my quote function just malfunctioned. Thanks!


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Quote:
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Before long, the Feds via A.D.A. will probably require manufacturers to include Braille markings to accommodate blind shooters.....
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  #8  
Old 05-12-2019, 1:55 PM
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Good deal Sir. It’s really nice to be able to bottom out your turret to your initial zero without counting or having to look at it. Makes a great scope outstanding.


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  #9  
Old 05-13-2019, 7:14 AM
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Nice rifle but I'd be pretty disappointed if my rifle didn't shoot under a minute.
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
Nice rifle but I'd be pretty disappointed if my rifle didn't shoot under a minute.


They have a 1 MOA guarantee. I also don't have a lead sled to see if it's me or the rifle. I didn't feel like I pulled any of the shots but it's hard to tell. And I don't know if that's what to expect out of the box or after break in. I suppose I could call and ask




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Gun owners need to be the new illegals - undocumented firearm possessors if you will.
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Quote:
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Before long, the Feds via A.D.A. will probably require manufacturers to include Braille markings to accommodate blind shooters.....
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  #11  
Old 05-13-2019, 11:10 AM
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As a frame of reference. My Tikka was shooting 3/4" with American Gunner 140gr off a bipod and rear bag and I wasn't trying very hard. It shot just over 1/2 with 140gr ELD Match. This was also when it was brand new.

You tried a good variety of ammo so I'm surprised you/it didn't do better. Maybe it doesn't like Hornady.
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:40 AM
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They have a 1 MOA guarantee.
I believe Legacy's sub-MOA accuracy guarantee is for 3-shot groups. I'm guessing that your gun will meet that standard.
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Old 05-13-2019, 1:16 PM
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Guns don’t put four rounds in a sub MOA group with one flyer. Shooters do that.
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Old 05-13-2019, 1:59 PM
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I believe Legacy's sub-MOA accuracy guarantee is for 3-shot groups. I'm guessing that your gun will meet that standard.
That's true, and I believe it probably would.

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Originally Posted by NorCalFocus View Post
Guns don’t put four rounds in a sub MOA group with one flyer. Shooters do that.
Is statistical from what I understand. So unlikely, but possible. I'll try it again in a few days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
As a frame of reference. My Tikka was shooting 3/4" with American Gunner 140gr off a bipod and rear bag and I wasn't trying very hard. It shot just over 1/2 with 140gr ELD Match. This was also when it was brand new.

You tried a good variety of ammo so I'm surprised you/it didn't do better. Maybe it doesn't like Hornady.

How many shots per group for your 3/4" and 1/2" groups?



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Gun owners need to be the new illegals - undocumented firearm possessors if you will.
Legislator "logic":
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezrat View Post
Before long, the Feds via A.D.A. will probably require manufacturers to include Braille markings to accommodate blind shooters.....
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Old 05-13-2019, 2:18 PM
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You should also try match ammo. ELD-X is hunting ammo. ELD-M is match ammo.

How did you break in the barrel?

Maybe you can find a good shooter in your area to shoot your gun, look over the scope mounting, etc.
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Old 05-13-2019, 3:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
As a frame of reference. My Tikka was shooting 3/4" with American Gunner 140gr off a bipod and rear bag and I wasn't trying very hard. It shot just over 1/2 with 140gr ELD Match. This was also when it was brand new.

You tried a good variety of ammo so I'm surprised you/it didn't do better. Maybe it doesn't like Hornady.
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
You should also try match ammo. ELD-X is hunting ammo. ELD-M is match ammo.

How did you break in the barrel?

Maybe you can find a good shooter in your area to shoot your gun, look over the scope mounting, etc.
The Hornady American Gunner 140 Grain HPBT only costs about $1/round and shoots well in my rifles too, give that a try.

I don't know whether the "shoot-one-clean-shoot-one-clean" barrel break-in process is absolutely necessary, but I do it anyway. Either way, the first 50-ish shots from a brand new barrel are not good indicators of how well the barrel will shoot after it has broken or settled in.
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Old 05-13-2019, 3:43 PM
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How many shots per group for your 3/4" and 1/2" groups?
5 rounds

Edit- went out and got an app to measure the groups. I was relatively close with my group size estimates.

100y 140gr American Gunner


100y 140gr ELD Match




300y 140gr ELD Match


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Old 05-13-2019, 9:30 PM
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The Hornady American Gunner 140 Grain HPBT only costs about $1/round and shoots well in my rifles too, give that a try.
Sure, worth trying, but it's still not match. He should still try a box of ELD-M to maximize the rifle's potential.

Quote:
I don't know whether the "shoot-one-clean-shoot-one-clean" barrel break-in process is absolutely necessary, but I do it anyway. Either way, the first 50-ish shots from a brand new barrel are not good indicators of how well the barrel will shoot after it has broken or settled in.
Maybe not, but it's still just a chf barrel, so he should've cleaned intermittently somewhere along the way.

Tonyxcom, what kind of Tikka is your gun?

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Old 05-13-2019, 9:31 PM
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Default Joining the LPR club. Howa HCR 6.5 Creedmoor, range report and pictures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
You should also try match ammo. ELD-X is hunting ammo. ELD-M is match ammo.

How did you break in the barrel?

Maybe you can find a good shooter in your area to shoot your gun, look over the scope mounting, etc.
I haven't. Those were the first (and only) 21 shots through the tube since I picked her up Friday, and I stopped shooting after those. And I stand corrected, the only ELD-X I fired was the Hornady Precision Hunter. Everything else was ELD-M


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmykan View Post
The Hornady American Gunner 140 Grain HPBT only costs about $1/round and shoots well in my rifles too, give that a try.



I don't know whether the "shoot-one-clean-shoot-one-clean" barrel break-in process is absolutely necessary, but I do it anyway. Either way, the first 50-ish shots from a brand new barrel are not good indicators of how well the barrel will shoot after it has broken or settled in.
I have heard break in rituals are little more than rituals. I suppose I'll let you know when I find out whether I've "ruined" my barrel by not shooting it and cleaning it enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
5 rounds

Edit- went out and got an app to measure the groups. I was relatively close with my group size estimates.

100y 140gr American Gunner


100y 140gr ELD Match




300y 140gr ELD Match


Thanks! I'll give updated pictures once I've fired 29 more rounds. Probably going to look for some American Gunner.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
Sure, worth trying, but it's still not match. He should still try a box of ELD-M to maximize the rifle's potential.



Maybe not, but it's still just a chf barrel, so he should've cleaned intermittently somewhere along the way.

Tonyxcom, what kind of Tikka is your gun?


CHF? Not familiar with the term/abbreviation. I'll clean it before I finish breaking in.
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Quote:
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Quote:
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Gun owners need to be the new illegals - undocumented firearm possessors if you will.
Legislator "logic":
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezrat View Post
Before long, the Feds via A.D.A. will probably require manufacturers to include Braille markings to accommodate blind shooters.....

Last edited by Exdc; 05-13-2019 at 9:36 PM..
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Old 05-14-2019, 6:21 AM
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My Tikka is the Tac A1. Sake action/barrel as the CTR I believe.

I didn’t do any kind of barrel break in either. Just cleaned bore before heading to range and commenced shooting.
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Old 05-14-2019, 9:27 AM
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CHF? Not familiar with the term/abbreviation.
Cold Hammer Forged

This process produces barrels with very tough grain structure in the steel, very straight bores, but significant internal stress and just okay surface finish. The result is a long lasting barrel that has good but not great accuracy.

Last edited by jimmykan; 05-14-2019 at 9:32 AM..
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jimmykan View Post
Cold Hammer Forged

This process produces barrels with very tough grain structure in the steel, very straight bores, but significant internal stress and just okay surface finish. The result is a long lasting barrel that has good but not great accuracy.


So 1MOA is about what I should expect, but probably not 0.5 or less. With factory ammo? Any probability to get better with hand loads?


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Quote:
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"I want gay married couples to be able to protect their marijuana plants with guns." -Unknown (possibly Tim Moen)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allhailflintlocks View Post
Gun owners need to be the new illegals - undocumented firearm possessors if you will.
Legislator "logic":
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezrat View Post
Before long, the Feds via A.D.A. will probably require manufacturers to include Braille markings to accommodate blind shooters.....
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:31 AM
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So 1MOA is about what I should expect, but probably not 0.5 or less. With factory ammo? Any probability to get better with hand loads?
Some rifles with hammer forged barrels are capable of 1/2-inch-ish groups at 100 yards with factory match ammunition: the Remington 700 5-R and Ruger Precision Rifle come to mind.

Howa, I'm not sure. I've only owned one Howa, and it was a Ranchland Compact with a lightweight 16" barrel, and I can tell you that it was not capable of 0.5MOA groups with the factory barrel.

I eventually got it rebarreled with a Krieger barrel, and then it did shoot well under 0.5MOA. I sold that rifle to another Calgunner a while back.
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:41 AM
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So 1MOA is about what I should expect, but probably not 0.5 or less. With factory ammo? Any probability to get better with hand loads?


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I think any way you slice it, you should just spend more time behind the gun. Maybe the shooter and rifle will get better with more rounds down range.

I'd figure out what Match ammo shoots the best and stick with it for 100 rounds and see if you cant tighten up the groups. Maybe even let someone else shoot it.
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:54 AM
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Default Joining the LPR club. Howa HCR 6.5 Creedmoor, range report and pictures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmykan View Post
Some rifles with hammer forged barrels are capable of 1/2-inch-ish groups at 100 yards with factory match ammunition: the Remington 700 5-R and Ruger Precision Rifle come to mind.



Howa, I'm not sure. I've only owned one Howa, and it was a Ranchland Compact with a lightweight 16" barrel, and I can tell you that it was not capable of 0.5MOA groups with the factory barrel.



I eventually got it rebarreled with a Krieger barrel, and then it did shoot well under 0.5MOA. I sold that rifle to another Calgunner a while back.

I plan to keep this for a good while, so I'll likely rebarrel it in the next 5-10 years, and a Krieger barrel would be high on the candidate list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
I think any way you slice it, you should just spend more time behind the gun. Maybe the shooter and rifle will get better with more rounds down range.



I'd figure out what Match ammo shoots the best and stick with it for 100 rounds and see if you cant tighten up the groups. Maybe even let someone else shoot it.


Certainly. I just bought 100rds of American Gunner to finish the break in process. I'll start tracking muzzle velocity and see if it stabilizes, and work on finding a natural comfortable prone position (haven't shot prone much at all). After muzzle velocity stabilizes I'll start shooting the match ammunition again. I figure at $2 a pop I'll be better off not wasting it on break in.

And if anyone experienced is in Lake County and wants a go, let me know.

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Radical Centerist (That's me) Philosophy:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown
"I want gay married couples to be able to protect their marijuana plants with guns." -Unknown (possibly Tim Moen)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allhailflintlocks View Post
Gun owners need to be the new illegals - undocumented firearm possessors if you will.
Legislator "logic":
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezrat View Post
Before long, the Feds via A.D.A. will probably require manufacturers to include Braille markings to accommodate blind shooters.....

Last edited by Exdc; 05-14-2019 at 10:58 AM..
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  #26  
Old 05-15-2019, 8:37 PM
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First off props for you posting real groups. The sub moa warriors on here would never do such a thing.

Looking at how you were shooting id say the gun is fine!!!

Work on form and dry fire the heck out of it on your living room floor. Between double bags on the stock, bags under the bipod and I'm guessing its your first pistol grip rifle like this you did fine. Just over gripping the pistol grip can make you spray worse than that.

Don't over scrub the barrel, get the carbon out and some not all the copper.

Maybe think about a better trigger.
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