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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #1  
Old 05-11-2019, 2:49 PM
Dirtlaw Dirtlaw is offline
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Default A Question about Lehigh Defense Bullets

I'm eager to use my new 45-70's. California law though, for hunting I need lead free. So I've explored copper bullets. There are lots of issues. Without getting into the full breadth of the law, one issue with all bullets in tube feed rifles is the possibility of a sharp pointed bullet igniting the rest of the bullets in the tube when the rifle is fired. I have never experienced that. It is just what I've read. But if it happened my wife would yell at me a lot for getting hurt. Lehigh defense bullets (like the extreme penetrator) have a relatively large flat spot at their nose. Is that dull enough to prevent ignition of bullets in the tube??? There are other issues with Lehigh bullets, but the fact that they apparently have exceptional penetration through bone, etc. makes them an interesting option. I do have a bunch of Hornady Leverevolution rounds that have a rubber tip that prevents ignition, but I have a bunch of Lehigh bullet rounds as well. I want to try both. I don't want an angry wife though. I know there are other options, but another one of my objectives is to use a bullet with aerodynamics that make it travel with a flatter trajectory.
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Old 05-11-2019, 3:00 PM
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I would think Lehigh would not make a 45-70 that wasn't safe for a lever action being majority of 45-70 firearms are lever guns.

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Old 05-11-2019, 5:36 PM
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This whole thing about lever gun mags is sooooo overrated. First off, if the one in a trillion ever were to happen all it does is bulge or split the mag tube. The bullets are not in a chamber and thus will not "explode" in the mag. It is more of a pop than anything. Look up all the testing done on it. There used to be a hunting class instructor that would take the barrel off a shotgun, put a live round on the bolt, place his hat over the round and fire it. His hat would jump a little bit, but no damage to it since the case just splits.

Secondly, look at the cartridge. That big fat rim automatically places that round at an angle in the tube, not directly in line with each other like everybody seems to think. Place two loaded rounds on a table in line and see for yourself.

Third, a flat point would tend to to hit flat across the base, not entering the primer. A lead tip "could" possibly hit hard enough to deform and purtrude into the primer, if dropped from 100' in the air. Copper is stronger than lead and this one in a million chance would be even slimmer with copper rather than lead

Load, shoot, enjoy, repeat.
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Old 05-11-2019, 6:59 PM
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Use a flat tipped bullet with a tip larger in diameter than the primer and your all set.
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Old 05-12-2019, 6:50 AM
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Don't believe everything you read on the web........good luck on your hunt.

I would worry more about will my gun shoot that load accurately.....not all guns like all copper
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Old 05-12-2019, 6:43 PM
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You might need to do some more research on the Lehigh extreme penetration bullets. While they are ca hunting legal due to being lead free they are not legal for big game in CA since they don’t expand. It’s two separate sections of fish and game code. They make it very confusing.

Last edited by deckhandmike; 05-12-2019 at 6:50 PM..
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Old 05-12-2019, 9:58 PM
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Two things I would consider. First is you need to use bullets that have been approved by the state as lead free, I'm not sure these ones qualify. Secondly you are required to use a bullet designed to expand for hunting in California.
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Old 05-12-2019, 10:07 PM
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The Lehigh qualify as lead free but not expandable. So you can shoot bunnies and coyotes for 3$ a round legally but not anything like deer, bear, elk or sheep.
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Old 05-12-2019, 11:36 PM
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They make expanding bullets too. Dunno if the expanding ones fit in a 45-70.
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Old 05-13-2019, 5:16 AM
Dirtlaw Dirtlaw is offline
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Default I finally saw that

Yes, I found out about the big game requirement ... unfortunately after I purchased the rounds. The sad part is that the flutted design acts like an expanding bullet on account of fluid dynamics. The ability to blast through bone, etc. would seem to be a big plus in hunting some types of big game.



My dilemma derives from the very nature of law. We see it in the definitions they come up with when they try to ban something. The people that write the laws often don't have a clue what they're writing about and if they do, their skills of clear writing are lacking.


Anyway, I'm going to see if I can come up with a work-around. If not, all I can say is poor rabbits!
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Old 05-13-2019, 8:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtlaw View Post
Anyway, I'm going to see if I can come up with a work-around. If not, all I can say is poor rabbits!
I've got your workaround.

Load up the Lehigh penetrators, save them for when you need something that will penetrate deeply somewhere outside of CA. Float trip in Alaska? Do it. Camping in Yellowstone while the bears are desperately trying to fatten up? Do it.

Then buy some of the Barnes 45-70 specific TSX bullets and use those to hunt in CA.
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Old 05-13-2019, 9:02 AM
LynnJr LynnJr is offline
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So I am guessing that all the high bc monolithic solids are out if the question for deer?
We are stuck with low bc expanding bullets?
Anybody got a 6mm bullet with a bc above 0.500 that meets the deer hunting requirement?
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Old 05-13-2019, 9:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
So I am guessing that all the high bc monolithic solids are out if the question for deer?
We are stuck with low bc expanding bullets?
Anybody got a 6mm bullet with a bc above 0.500 that meets the deer hunting requirement?
Not so far as I can tell; but Barnes, Cutting Edge, and Cavity Back list expanding bullets with a .470ish G1. That seems to be about as close as you get.
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Old 05-13-2019, 9:47 AM
Dirtlaw Dirtlaw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
I've got your workaround.

Load up the Lehigh penetrators, save them for when you need something that will penetrate deeply somewhere outside of CA. Float trip in Alaska? Do it. Camping in Yellowstone while the bears are desperately trying to fatten up? Do it.

Then buy some of the Barnes 45-70 specific TSX bullets and use those to hunt in CA.

Best workaround yet! I have some Barnes bullets and I'm getting some Hornady Monoflex.
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Old 05-13-2019, 2:20 PM
Dirtlaw Dirtlaw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
So I am guessing that all the high bc monolithic solids are out if the question for deer?
We are stuck with low bc expanding bullets?
Anybody got a 6mm bullet with a bc above 0.500 that meets the deer hunting requirement?

I really, really have issues with stupid CA legislators. The answer to everything is a new regulation. Assuming the goal is an ethical kill the answer may not always be using a hollow point. Funny thing is I think hollow points are banned by the Geneva convention -- though I may be wrong. It would be nice if things made sense.
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