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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles. |
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#1
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Why buy cheap rifles for hunting?
I'm just curious, often times I see post on here about "its just a cheap hunting rifle", "you don't need a rifle over $XXX for a hunting rifle", or some version of that.
My counter argument to that is, why bet all the time and money you invest into a hunt on a $300 rifle? So lets add up the cost for a deer hunt... License $60 Tag $50 Gas to drive a few hundred miles to hunt $200-$300 Ammo for practice and hunt $80 Food for 3-4 days $50-$75 Time off work, vacation days This is the low end. The cost goes way up if your hauling a camper, have a side by side, want alcohol to drink at night, need new gear like boots or a pack, pay a trespass/gate fee etc. We all know you can drop a thousand or more easily towards a basic deer hunt. Then the cost sky rockets if your going out of state or you use a guide. If you built points for 5 years, your license cost and tag application fees are 5 times higher than the guy that draws year one. My time in the back country is valuable to me. I can't see making all that hinge of a $300 rifle and $200 scope. Even more so when you don't get a chance to go every year. I'm not saying everyone needs a custom $3000 rifle to hunt, but why is it okay to have the cheapest rifle possible? I want a rifle that shoots 1/2 MOA all day. Because when the times comes, I may be a 1 MOA shooter at best. Knowing my rifle isn't going to be a problem is huge for me. Someone tell me why I'm wrong. Because I'd love to save some money. |
#3
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It all depends on your application. Around the country, many deer are taken at less than 100 yards, sometimes closer to 50 yards. Does Bubba down south or Taaad up in the midwest require a 1/2 MOA gun? Probably not.
When hunting billy goats in big sky country, many shots are taken at a couple hundred yards, maybe more. Would you want a gun with the equivalent accuracy of a smoothbore musket? Probably not. It all depends on the application. By the way, when you factor in the cost of your trip, what is the price per pound of that venison sausage? Answer: priceless |
#4
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Even on pack in hunting more game is killed at or under 100 yards than at or over 1,000 yards. How much accuracy do you need to shoot a deer or elk at 75 yards, you tell me. Everyone has their own personal preferences and standards unless someone else gave you your preferences and standards. Just because someone else told you you have to have X Y or Z to hunt doesn't make it set in stone, both ways. Actually I think your way out on the low end for a custom hunting rifle but that's my idea. Cheap guns can and do work all the time and expensive ones can fail, it's a toss. After all it's your time and money spend it as you wish. I will not do what some do all the time and that is tell you you have to have this or that to enjoy hunting or experience success in it's different states. You sound like your trying to convince yourself of something although I am not sure what it is. HTH
Regards elk hunter Last edited by elk hunter; 04-04-2019 at 10:07 AM.. |
#5
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are you saying that the average $300 bolt action rifle is not capable of 1 to 2 MOA? Also are most people really capable of shooting better than 4 MOA in a field condition? I know a lot of people can shoot 1 MOA at the bench, but I'm talking about off hand or braced against a tree like in typical hunting scenarios.
Take for example a Savage Axis as a budget model hunting rifle. Comes with a scope from Dicks for $349. Doesn't even come with acccutriger or the accu bedding. Still capable of hitting 12 inch target from 300 yards. That should be enough for hunting at the typical range of 100 to 300 yards, especially if you are on a budget. If you can afford better/nicer, then fine I don't care. I just don't think a budget rifle should be dismissed from being used by someone with limited funds.
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Emotional appeal is a marketing tactic and not a foundation for effective argument. Nulla Fatere, Omnia Nega, Accusatorem Accusa |
#6
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I own several rifles, of all price points. The rifles one can now get for $300ish are incredible values. My T/C Compass rifles are sub MOA right out of the box. With a decent scope I have less than $500 in each of them. They shoot better, or at least as well as my other far more expensive rifles. I took two "cheap" rifles with me last year on our annual Wyoming hunting trip for two weeks. Rain, snow and mud didn't seem to bother them and they held zero for the two animals I had tags for.
For the money they can't be beat, plus they have lifetime warranties and are guaranteed to be sub MOA with premium ammunition. I hand load and have found their claim to be true. Last edited by roostersgt; 04-04-2019 at 10:18 AM.. |
#7
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Resident hunt license- 49.00 (rounded up) Resident deer tag 1st 32.00 (rounded up) Gas for 200 mile round trip at 15 mpg 86.00 (rounded up) Ammo- 50 bux max for 20 rounds of non lead premium ammo (rounded up) Time off work is moot, use your vacation time, that's what its for. Just pointing out your numbers are highly inflated to prove your point.
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"Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six" |
#8
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I have "cheap" rifles($300-400 without scope) and I have expensive rifles($2200-5000+).
The cheap ones shoot excellent and sometimes better than my middle of the cost rifles. One thing I do is ALWAYS put a Leupold on any hunting rifle/pistol. Doing so makes me know that no matter the weather and such I will not need to worry about the scope. I have more of a problem with people using cheap, less reliable scopes and poor choice of ammo for hunting than I do the cost of the rifle. Some people pick bullets completely unsuitable for hunting the game they are after. They do not understand that the bullet is the ONLY part that touches the animal and the cheapest part of the hunt even if it was $5+ per round. Also bullet choice or cartridge should not be for best case situations but it should be for the worse case situation you may get at shot at the animal of your choice. "Cheap" rifles generally shoot well and often better than the shooter can do. I see it often at the range. "I think" the more important thing is people who 1)pick a cheap scope or one with a bunch of adjustments needed to shoot 2) pick an unsuitable bullet choice(show more respect to the animal that you are trying to kill quickly/cleanly) 3) pick a cartridge not suitable for the hunting you are doing in the worse case situation. So OP I will tell you that you are partly wrong. You are wrong about the rifle. You did not talk about the scope or ammo or cartridge selection which is actually more important. That is were I find the most fault. PS the ammo/cartridge part is even more important now that we must use non-lead ammo. far too many select too heavy a bullet going too slow.
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A 30cal will reach out and touch them. A 50cal will kick their butt. NRA Life Member, NRA certified RSO & Basic Pistol Instructor, Hunter, shooter, reloader SCI, Manteca Sportsmen Club, Coalinga Rifle Club, Escalon Sportsmans Club, Waterford Sportsman Club & NAHA Member, Madison Society member Last edited by Divernhunter; 04-04-2019 at 10:43 AM.. |
#9
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#10
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Gas I just went off of what I know I usally spend. But its also depends on distance. If you live in LA or SF and drive into the X zones, your well past a 200 round trip. On the ammo, just 20 rounds for practice, sight in and hunt? Don't you think and ethical hunter owes more to the animal than that? |
#11
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I'm not here trying to prove my point to anyone, just curious as to why people in general go cheap in this area. Go up into the D zones during deer season, guys have $60,000 4x4's, $20,000 side by sides, a camper, and a bargin box store rifle.
Then you take guys that say that they can't afford more than $400 on a rifle (scope, or other important item), yet they have a iPhone with a $100/month plan, eat out 4 nights a week, have a new car. Yeah that isn't everyone and some guys really do live on a budget that only allows them to spend the bare minimum. I guess my point is more on why this mindset of "good enough" vs "get the best you can really afford". |
#12
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__________________
"Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six" |
#13
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OK, got it. But your pointing out something here, yes some guy's will do just what you describe. Does that make them any less of a dedicated hunter than the guy that's packing a 6,500.00 rifle driving a old Toyoda pickup and sleeping in a tent? What your seeing is what makes things interesting at least to me. Different ideas and different values. I'm sure I'm a lot different than you, a good thing.....no? I think yes. It's much more interesting.
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#14
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#15
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Ahhh yes, interesting. Just for the kicks of it I'll tell you a little about me. I drive a 09 Toyoda Tacoma, and at least right now I still have a Grizzly 660 if I need it and yep I do have a tent but don't object one bit to a nice warm motel room when it's down around 0, yep I'm getting to be a woosie in my old age. But that isn't what most would call "high dollar" but to me it's all good. My firearms are something of what most would call lower end to mid range. I demand reliability and accuracy first and foremost to any other part of it. I bet I got more campfire stories than you do LOL Enjoy your hunting, I know I will.
Regards elk hunter |
#17
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On a dirt bike q&a video, someone asked what to spend $300 on to go faster. The answer was buy $300 worth of gas for the bike. Same thing here, buy $300 worth of ammo and learn everything you can about your rifle. Big box bargain or custom. My Tikka T3 shoots as well as it's uppity cousin, the Sako. My FIL built his hunting rifle out of a $3 Arisaka, hand picked from a barrel at a Western Auto in the early 50's. He was a fine shot and very rarely missed with open sights and some hand loaded 300 Savage ammo. I would say spend smart on glass and rings/mounts.
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#18
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As others have pointed out, many of the bargain rifles now being produced are more accurate than the classic rifles of 20 or more years ago. Ruger Americans, TC Compass, Savages, etc shoot close to or better than MOA and are certainly accurate enough to hunt big game with. My go to hunting rifles are a .243 Tikka T-3 Lite, another one in .300 Win, a Howa .270 and a 1903 Springfield sporterized .30-06 with the original barrel that shoots handloads into 5/8 to 3/4 inch. My varmint rifles run the gamut from a Cooper .204, Kimber Longmaster .22-250, a CZ 527 American in .223, a Savage 110 .223 (old model 4x4) to a CZ Varmint in .17 HMR. All of those centerfires shoot 1/2 inch. The CZ 17 shoots about 3/4 inch with CCI green ammo.
So while I value a high dollars rifle, I use what shoots well and put good scopes on them. Last edited by Calif Hunter; 04-04-2019 at 11:39 AM.. |
#19
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Light, dependable, highly accurate and under 400.... why spend more for a rifle that’s usually worse at the job?
For all our care and caution there’s a reason we never take a loaded rifle up into a tree stand. It might fall or we might. Other hunters have ribed me for babying my rifles, but there’s still much more chance of damage in the field than at the range. |
#20
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Bottom line. The Ruger American and Remington budget line of rifles out the last 5 to 10 years are far more capable than most hunters truly shooting within their capabilities. Spending 2X or 3X more on the gun and optics will not increase the chance of success of most hunters.
That all said, buy a gun that you like and can manage out to about 1.5X to 2X your anticipated shot distance, buy some ammo and get to the range and practice, practice, practice.
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Benefactor Life Member, National Rifle Association Life Member, California Rifle and Pistol Association Last edited by Jeepergeo; 04-04-2019 at 12:15 PM.. |
#22
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And no you don't need more than a 1/2 MOA rifle. I'm here just having a discussion with y'all. |
#23
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You really don't shoot with many people do you?
The trend I've seen with people asking about a 'cheap' rifle for hunting is they're either just getting into hunting, or shooing in general. You won't tell someone buying their first hand gun to buy a CZ Tactical Sport Orange would you? Maybe those that live vicariously through others would but I know and have shot with plenty of people that have nice rifles just for hunting, custom guns even. Just because they don't post about it here doesn't mean they don't exist
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#24
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So whats more likely to take the abuse of the rifle being dropped, banged on rocks, and extreme weather changes? A tupperware plastic stock or a $800 McMillan? A $200 Nikon/Vortex/Tasco or a $1800 Nightforce? A factory trigger or a $120 Timney or Trigger Tech? Either way, things break down and having a back up is needed. Last edited by NorCalFocus; 04-04-2019 at 12:38 PM.. |
#25
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This. The objective is enjoyment or some other feeling you seek (or to put food in your mouth). How you get there isn't important (as long as it's ethical). |
#26
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I just see the trend here on Calguns mostly that "this is good enough". I totally get not dropping $1000 on a rifle getting into hunting or shooting. I may just be on my own on this one. Thats cool. |
#27
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Regards elk hunter |
#28
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#29
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My buddy, who does way more hunting than most, only has custom rifles with high dollar scopes. He has lots of money and doesn't mind spending it on hunting trips and the guns he uses. He makes multiple trips out of country and many all over the US and Canada. He has a 4000 square foot trophy room including the Big 5, a sheep Grand Slam, Turkey Grand Slam and many record book class bucks, bulls, rams, bear, etc.
It is all relative. He uses his guns hard and feels the quality is worth it given the money he spends on the hunts and the reliability he gets from his equipment. |
#30
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On the ammo, just 20 rounds for practice, sight in and hunt? Don't you think and ethical hunter owes more to the animal than that?
Reply With Quote 20 rounds of ammo is at least 5 seasons worth. My rifle holds zero just fine for the 51 weeks a year it sits in the safe. |
#31
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I still have the first .30 caliber rifle I learned to hunt Deer with many decades ago in Michigan - a Sporterized 1903 Springfield in .30-06 that my Dad paid around $40 dollars for almost 50 years ago. I have also hunted deer with my 1903A3 Springfield, M1 Garand, and Savage 110 all chambered in .30-06. Plus a couple of my el-cheapo Mosin-Nagants (91-30 and M-44) chambered in 7.62X54R.
Of course I live in Ca Deer Hunting area B-1, with large racked Black Tail Bucks right outside the house. Heck, I could probably kill one with a croquet mallet, or a pellet rifle - if so inclined. Maybe I should just open the window, remove the screen, and hunt deer from the comfort of my Lazy-Boy recliner? Otherwise I could drive about an hour east of here, and be on public lands within Six Rivers Nat'l Forest to go hunting with the weekend warriors... So lets see my costs of deer hunting on the very remote property here.... Fuel costs - zero dollars Lead Free ammunition - I will have to go buy some in .30-06 and 7.62X54mm which is required after July 1, 2019 in all of California. Deer tags of course No 4 wheeler needed I can camp somewhere on the 80 acres of timber for free My local shooting distances in heavy timber do not require optics, plus I can still hit targets out to past 400 yards using iron open sights... Yet I do own a few rifles with scopes/ optics, that I bought used at a cheap for me price with them already attached. My idea of a perfect firearm big game hunting experience is way different than the OPs opinion!
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Member of the N.R.A., Marine Corps League, and American Legion. |
#32
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NorCalFocus
Take a look at the California hunter success rate and what you will quickly notice is the average hunter kills a buck every 15 years. I would imagine that hunter wears the latest greatest gear and has an expensive truck that gets waxed before he brings it home and goes out each Saturday around 9-10 AM. The guys killing two bucks a year consistently know what they are doing already and have it all dialed in.
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Lynn Dragoman, Jr. Southwest Regional Director Unlimited Range Shooters Association (URSA) www.unlimitedrange.org Not a commercial business. URSA - Competition starts at 2000 yards! |
#33
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One train of thought is to spend no more than you need for a rifle. Just like buying a hammer or a tape measure.
One train of thought is to engage in a past-time or hobby where the embellishments increase the satisfaction involved, while usually improving or at least not, degrading the gun’s utility. Different strokes for different folks. |
#34
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... srsly?
So I can have a rifle in each caliber, duh! But honestly, my .30-06 was $249, and damn if it doesn’t shoot as good as a $999 rifle (the operator is a different story tho... )
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#37
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It's a wise idea to buy the best quality rifle you can afford for big game hunting.
I hunt the Rockies exclusively. A guided hunt can be well over 10k. A DIY mule deer hunt is about 3k. But money ain't the only problem. Our deer camp is 35 miles from the nearest town. I'd have to drive about 150 miles to have a rifle repaired. Worse, I'd hate to be deep in Rockies wilderness with a rifle that won't shoot. For many years, I've hunted with a Model 700. It was my only big game rifle for many seasons. That rifle has never, ever failed me. I've picked up a couple Sakos along the way. I have complete faith in all of my big game rifles. I'll take only one this year. I've heard the Remington's quality control has plummeted. I hope it ain't true. The recently introduced Sauer 100, made in Germany, is worth a long look. You'll not go wrong with Sako. Believe me, Sako is worth its premium. Save longer or sell stuff you don't need. Always buy the best quality big game rifle you can afford. I'd rather buy good quality used than lesser quality new. Last edited by EMP3; 04-04-2019 at 8:25 PM.. |
#39
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Ever been on a hunt with a guy with a custom rifle or Blaser or something and he won’t get it wet or makes you hold it while he crosses a fence or scrambles up some rocks? That guy doesn’t get invited next year.
A gun is a tool. Spend enough so that it does it’s job and so you love it. A $3,000 rifle better shoot 1/2moa. But there is a special joy in something like the $350 Ruger American Predator I bought that can shoot 1/2moa too. And I don’t have to care when I put it in the bed of the truck, or lean it against a tree and have it fall. We should all be grateful to live in a time of such great firearms and optics. For maybe $600 today, you can get a rifle and scope that was unobtainable at almost any price 25 years ago. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
#40
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Be nice to Lynn...
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Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
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