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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles. |
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#1
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Borrow scope lapping tool???
Anybody near Newark got a 30mm lapping tool I can borrow? Or rent for a six pack or something?
Just being cheap, and don’t plan on doing enough to “need” to buy one.
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Why is everything good???? Illegal, Immoral, fattening??? |
#2
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I'm not going to knock lapping rings as a waste of time and effort, because there are situations when it may be the best option, but have you already eliminated all other variables causing the misalignment you're experiencing?
Do all mounting screw holes in the receiver align properly? Are you using a one piece scope base or two piece? If you're using a one piece scope rail, does it sit flush with no gaps? Are you using name brand rings? (Beware of cheap, poorly machined rings) Remember, you are combining several different systems, probably all manufactured in different facilities on different machines. All provide an opportunity for different tolerances between each other. There's a good chance that if you eliminate all tolerance inconsistencies between the mating parts it may not be necessary to lap your rings. |
#3
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One piece steel rail, only has a super thin sheet of paper gap on the front. Rings are high end matched, matched rings. Not sure they need lapping, just trying to give this rifle every chance to bang steel at 1000. It’s my first foray into the long range game, and I don’t wanna it any corners.
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#4
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I'm in the same boat right alongside you right now.
I recently bought a used 700P (PSS?) in .308 and I'm in the process of scoping it right now. I'm using a bunch of old components that I happen to have on hand. Rem 700 action - Leupold MK IV one piece steel rail - Badger Ordnance steel rings - SWFA SS 10x42 scope. I know I will have a tolerance stacking situation since there is a very slight gap between the receiver and rail at the back of the receiver. I'll bed the rail to correct that this weekend though. Once I'm satisfied with the rail bedding, I'll use some green plastigage on the ring surface to look for any abnormalities in fit once the cap screws are torqued. Last edited by desertrider; 05-09-2019 at 7:34 PM.. |
#5
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Quote:
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Why is everything good???? Illegal, Immoral, fattening??? |
#7
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True, but it will give you a good idea of mating surface. Run 2 strips. One on each edge.
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Why is everything good???? Illegal, Immoral, fattening??? |
#8
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Did you read somewhere this was a good idea? The point of lapping is to have even contact along the whole surface of the ring. The plastigage won't tell you anything about that because if there are high spots, you won't be able to tell. Those high spots won't compress.
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#9
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And logically, if it’s not compressed, you know you don’t have good contact. Which would require lapping.
Running matched rings, there’s varying opinion on whether they need to be lapped. This could be used as an indicator. And yes I know, lapping is always better. I’ve got plastigage in the tool box, but not a scope lapping tool. |
#10
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If the flattened plastigage isn't uniform in it's spread I'd attribute that to imperfections in the machining of the rings. At that point I'd consider lapping the rings, especially if I've done everything in my control to ensure proper fit starting at the receiver and working up. I'll be mounting up my scope this weekend. Over the years I've mounted several scopes and have never found it necessary to lap a set of rings yet. That's been my experience, I'm no world class marksman, but I shoot reasonably well. |
#11
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I’m in West LA. I’ve got the Wheeler tool kit.
75 bucks cash deposit, get 65 back on return. Shipped at your cost. Pick up ok. I’ve lapped a few rings. All of them showed high and low spots. Some more than others. You clamp down on imperfectly mounted or made rings, never seen perfect ones, you run the risk of torquing the scope tube. What happens when it’s torqued? Tracking can be affected. “can” not do sho. Some designs, like some vertical splits rings from Warne and Aero Precision don’t benefit from lapping due to the way they clamp down. Last edited by MarikinaMan; 05-10-2019 at 4:55 AM.. |
#12
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Not being a professional on this subject, I believe that if you paid good money for a set of matched rings and find that there is uneven pressure being applied to your scope tube, it is most likely a result of tolerance stacking where something else just isn't fitting together right. So if you choose to lap the rings to accommodate the inconsistency of the poorly fitted parts, you no longer have a matched set of rings. You've just modified them to fit the combination of tolerance inconsistencies in your build. Like I wrote in my first reply, sometimes lapping may be the best option for some situations though. For instance, what if the problem is with the receiver? The cost to have a 'smith strip your gun down to just the receiver and match the surfaces would be a heck of a lot more than the cost of a lapping bar for your rings. That's for damn sure. If that were the case, I'd spend the coin and get a good lapping kit. Personally, I'd buy the Kokopelli Accurizing Kit and be done with it. http://www.kokopelliproducts.com/acckit.htm |
#13
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For only ten bucks plus shipping, that might be your best bet audiopro. |
#14
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If planning to use shims, Plastigage would make sense in determining the "gap" when installing the one-piece rail on the receiver. Bedding the rail with some sort of epoxy is easier though.
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#17
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Yeah, plastigage needs to be compressed. Installing one screw on a rail probably wouldn't compress it enough to tell you anything.
Plastigage is an automotive tool designed to be a cheap way to tell you if you have enough clearance in bearings. All of this scope mounting discussion concerns things that should have no clearance at all. |
#18
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In doing a fair bit of research, it appears that placing rings too close to the turret body and over-torquing the rings creates greater issues that lapping can't fix. Squeezing the tube close to the turrets causes binding of the erector assembly or parallax adjustment.
Lapping rings may not improve fit, but it can't hurt. But, if the scope is not correctly mounted, lapping didn't help a bit. Last edited by smoothy8500; 05-10-2019 at 9:49 AM.. |
#19
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I lap all steel rings! Does it do any good, I don't know. But it eliminates the possibility. Shooting to me has a certain about of head games to it, so eliminating every variable I can just helps my head.
Got into a debate with a Leupold tech about lapping rings when I asked if they could supply a 34mm lapping bar. They tried to tell me their rings were near perfect and did not need lapping..... Really.... After having a 34mm bar ground from an old rail gun barrel, I lapped the 34mm Leupold rings, they were not round and had high spots. I have lapping bars for 1" 30mm, & 34mm. Pay the shipping and promise to return it, you can borrow it. The 1" and 30mm were cheap to make, just order the bar stock from McMaster Carr and a handle. The 34mm was a different story, had to have one ground. Drill a hole, tap, screw in the handle and you are ready to go. I lap with four different compounds, 300 grit, 600 grit, 1200 grit, and Ultra Bright Tooth paste. I can post a picture of what I made when I get home if you would like, they are easy. PM me if you want to borrow mine.
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"It is better to go Hunting and think about God, than to go to church and think about Hunting" "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot shoot. The courage to shoot the things I can and the wisdom to dope the wind and make the shot."[/I] |
#20
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I agree with epoxy method. Lapping the rings is one thing but will the base make full contact on the receiver? That was one of my concerns before I decided to bed the scope base on my rifles.
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#22
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I'd say the professionals know the purpose and ability to use a scope lap ring tool properly.
Therefore, my vote is to deploy a used HB electric grinder with a wheel no smaller than 8 or 9 inchs under low light conditions. Last edited by hambam105; 05-12-2019 at 3:25 PM.. |
#24
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Do not fear the enemy, for your enemy can only take your life. It is far better that you fear the media, for they will steal your Honour Let's pray for Obama Psalm 109:8 159 |
#25
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Please forgive my ignorance, but I have two questions:
1. What is 'Scope Lapping'? 2. Why is it done? Thanks, gents, -p
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"If you want nice fresh oats, you have to pay a fair price. If you are satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, well, that comes a little cheaper." |
#26
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here's an example of one of the commercially available kits to lap riflescope rings.
https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...rod126532.aspx Basically it helps you both to align the rings so there's no undo pressure on the scope body...and it makes sure that the contact surfaces of the inner aspects of the rings are near perfectly inline and in contact with the scope body. In effect improving upon any mismatch or machining irregularities in the rifle mounting relationship. Hope that helps. |
#27
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It is done because the scope tube and the scope rings are machined parts and have tolerances.
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Lynn Dragoman, Jr. Southwest Regional Director Unlimited Range Shooters Association (URSA) www.unlimitedrange.org Not a commercial business. URSA - Competition starts at 2000 yards! |
#28
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Thanks for explanation, gents!
-P
__________________
"If you want nice fresh oats, you have to pay a fair price. If you are satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, well, that comes a little cheaper." |
#30
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If you bed the base to the reciever so that the base is not twisted AND you use good quality rings, the scope will set in the rings and slide like it's on air bearings because everything is in alignment. When the base is twisted or the rings are NOT square, then the scope tube binds and lapping will cut out the misalignment. People don't realize that if you put the rings on different slots on the base after lapping that the rings are no longer straight to each other if the base is warped by being force fitted to the reciever. This is not the case on a straight bedded base though. You can move the rings and maintain alignment when the base is straight. Lapping should be the last ditch effort to fix misalignment. The FAR better method is to bed the base.
__________________
Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#31
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Plastigauge will show angular misalignment very well though.
__________________
Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#32
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Quote:
It will absolutely tell you if you have misalignment.
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Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#33
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29 times out of 30, the problem is the base being twisted on the reciever, not the ring machining.
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Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#34
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The use of a mandrel and abrasive (lapping) compound to correct misalignment within the rings to eliminate angular misalignment stress on the scope tube.
It's a "hack" fix for parts that don't fit correctly to begin with.
__________________
Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#35
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Quote:
Last edited by LWP; 05-14-2019 at 12:54 PM.. |
#37
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If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Shoot your set up first and see if it actually performs as needed.
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NRA Benefactor Life Member NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle & Refuse To Be A Victim Instructor American Marksman Training Group Visit our American Marksman Facebook Page Diamond Bar CCW Facebook Page NRA Memberships at Discounted fee |
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