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  #1  
Old 12-09-2023, 2:42 PM
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Default Extraction probs with cheap shotguns

I finally got to shoot my Maverick 88. It hangs up on extraction sometimes. I was using Winchester Super X, but it still had steel bases. One friend thought that was the problem, but it seems like even expensive shells have steel bases these days, but just with a brass wash. I checked some expensive shells too, but same story, attracts a magnet even though it's brass colored.

I checked the inside of one of the barrels, and it's as smooth as a baby's butt. No burrs or ridges, or anything. What do I do? Get rid of these guns and buy real expensive ones? Anyone else have cheap shotguns that extract and feed without problems?
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  #2  
Old 12-09-2023, 2:45 PM
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Contact Mossberg...

The Extractor fits into a groove... something might not be to spec...
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Old 12-09-2023, 2:51 PM
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I had to polish the chamber of my Remington 870 years ago. Prior to polishing, it took a LOT of force to extract shells when they jammed. You're not looking to remove a ton of material, just clean it up.

ETA: If the chamber is as smooth as you say, that may not be the issue.

Last edited by NoNOS67; 12-09-2023 at 2:55 PM..
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  #4  
Old 12-09-2023, 4:53 PM
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Did you try the other shells, or just check them with a magnet?
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  #5  
Old 12-09-2023, 5:24 PM
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Brass plates steel is normal. It should run those with out issue.

You can field strip and post clear photos for better guesses.
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  #6  
Old 12-09-2023, 6:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rromeo View Post
Did you try the other shells, or just check them with a magnet?
Just magnetated them. The other ones were not cheap Kazahkstani ammo, they were Winchester. But they didn't have the brass wash. Could that be the problem?
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  #7  
Old 12-09-2023, 6:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
Brass plates steel is normal. It should run those with out issue.

You can field strip and post clear photos for better guesses.
Photos of what?
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  #8  
Old 12-10-2023, 7:33 AM
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The same problem you complained about in November in another thread.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...5#post28242855

Did you take any of the advice that was offered in that thread?

I'll offer some new advice.
Post a picture of the box of shells and pictures of actual shell - both the bottom of the base and what's printed on the shell plastic.
Then we can see exactly what you are shooting.

When the shells are fired the steel base expands and depending on the alloy used it may not spring back down to it's original diameter and it gets stuck.

I'm not sure when they started using steel based shells, but it sounds like there is no spec for what the steel alloy needs to be and/or how thick the steel needs to be.
It seems like the shells are just made to meet the same exterior dimensions.
I don't think it was as critical in the days of brass bases, because once fired the brass base would return to or close enough to it's original diameter to extract without a problem.

If you want the gun to eject any brand of shell reliably, you probably need to have the chamber honed.
I would call Mossberg and explain the problem you are having.
Or buy one of these hones and do it yourself.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1007049254

Or try other brands of shells and if they eject reliably, only use those shells.
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  #9  
Old 12-10-2023, 8:48 AM
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Shells sticking in the chamber has been a problem that has been discussed many times. Hone with emery cloth or carry a broom handle to push the spent shell out. Brass colored steel is common and not the problem.
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  #10  
Old 12-10-2023, 2:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBGBA View Post
The same problem you complained about in November in another thread.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...5#post28242855

Did you take any of the advice that was offered in that thread?

I'll offer some new advice.
Post a picture of the box of shells and pictures of actual shell - both the bottom of the base and what's printed on the shell plastic.
Then we can see exactly what you are shooting.

When the shells are fired the steel base expands and depending on the alloy used it may not spring back down to it's original diameter and it gets stuck.

I'm not sure when they started using steel based shells, but it sounds like there is no spec for what the steel alloy needs to be and/or how thick the steel needs to be.
It seems like the shells are just made to meet the same exterior dimensions.
I don't think it was as critical in the days of brass bases, because once fired the brass base would return to or close enough to it's original diameter to extract without a problem.

If you want the gun to eject any brand of shell reliably, you probably need to have the chamber honed.
I would call Mossberg and explain the problem you are having.
Or buy one of these hones and do it yourself.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1007049254

Or try other brands of shells and if they eject reliably, only use those shells.
There was no advice in the other thread. That's why I posted a new one specific to my problem.

I pulled the barrel out of my Mossberg. The chamber is smooth as glass. No rough spots, no ridges.

I should have saved the empties on the problem shells but it's hard to identify them out of the pile of empties.
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  #11  
Old 12-10-2023, 3:37 PM
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Here's some advice from the other thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBGBA View Post
...What are the other shells that you have?
You'll have to try them to find out.

I'd recommend Remington Gun Club, Federal and Winchester (as long as they aren't the "Universal" ones)...
Maybe Super X need to be excluded as well.

To get it working reliably, I think you basically have a couple of choices.
1) Find a different brand (or brands) of ammo that ejects 100% reliably and only shoot that ammo.
2) Call Mossberg and explain the problem to them and ask them for a pre-paid shipping label so you can send it in to be fixed (I'm presuming it's still under warranty).
3) If it's a problem with the extractor (I don't think this is the problem it, but I've been wrong before) maybe it's best to send it to Mossberg (again, under warranty).


Personally, I'd go with choice #2, so that you can then shoot whatever ammo you want to without any reliability issues (whether it be HD, Upland Game or Waterfowl ammo).

A couple other questions:
Have you noticed a pattern when experiencing the problem?
Does it ever happen on the first shot from a cold gun?
Or does it happen after the barrel has been warmed up? If yes, after how many shots have been fired do you seem to have a problem?
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  #12  
Old 12-10-2023, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBGBA View Post
Here's some advice from the other thread.
Maybe Super X need to be excluded as well.

To get it working reliably, I think you basically have a couple of choices.
1) Find a different brand (or brands) of ammo that ejects 100% reliably and only shoot that ammo.
I've only "test" fired both shotguns so far. Maybe 10-15 shells through each one. The difficulty of following this suggestion is the range that's closest to me only allows birdshot, and when I ever use it for serious purposes it will be only buckshot and slugs.

Quote:
2) Call Mossberg and explain the problem to them and ask them for a pre-paid shipping label so you can send it in to be fixed (I'm presuming it's still under warranty).
That had been my original plan but it's a huge pain boxing a shotgun for shipping. Finding a box long enough is very difficult. When I last tried it and the first shell actually extracted, I had high hopes that I wouldn't have to ship it back. Then the second or third shell stuck.

Quote:
3) If it's a problem with the extractor (I don't think this is the problem it, but I've been wrong before) maybe it's best to send it to Mossberg (again, under warranty).
Yeah, I don't think so either. The extractor doesn't slip off. Mild mortaring dislodges the empty.

Quote:
Personally, I'd go with choice #2, so that you can then shoot whatever ammo you want to without any reliability issues (whether it be HD, Upland Game or Waterfowl ammo).

A couple other questions:
Have you noticed a pattern when experiencing the problem?
The pattern is the guns are loaded and I shoot once or twice.

Quote:
Does it ever happen on the first shot from a cold gun?
It happened from the first shell I ever fired in my Mossberg and about the third shell in my Maverick.

Quote:
Or does it happen after the barrel has been warmed up? If yes, after how many shots have been fired do you seem to have a problem?
I don't know. I've never fired more than 5 shells from my Mossberg and 1 tube full from my Maverick.
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  #13  
Old 12-11-2023, 9:14 AM
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one more set of questions

Do it load, extract and eject live rounds? Or do the live rounds also have issues

stating the obvious- be safe with live ammo.



If live unfired ammo cycles just fine....

that leads me to have you check the barrel.

Are you shooting 2 1/4" shells or 3" shells? What is on the barrel?


When a shell opens during firing, that is when a 2 1/2" shell becomes 2 3/4" long....


so hard extraction could be something with the front part of the chamber / forcing cone...

it could be a very oversized chamber... if a maverick 88 is highly polished... that is unusual as they are the cheapest pump in the market...

the chamber could have had a flaw and the removal and polishing made the chamber out of spec....

everything has a spec... springs, chambers... everything...

I would send it back to mossberg with 5 live rounds that you know will not extract once fired
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Old 12-11-2023, 9:17 AM
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lastly- ask around your area... who else has an 88- can you swap barrels with them for some test firing...
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Old 12-11-2023, 3:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
one more set of questions

Do it load, extract and eject live rounds? Or do the live rounds also have issues

stating the obvious- be safe with live ammo.
Nope, didn't try it.

Quote:
If live unfired ammo cycles just fine....

that leads me to have you check the barrel.

Are you shooting 2 1/4" shells or 3" shells? What is on the barrel?
2 3/4". Dunno what's on the barrel, shouldn't matter because no 12 gauge has a chamber for 2 1/2" shells.

Quote:
When a shell opens during firing, that is when a 2 1/2" shell becomes 2 3/4" long....


so hard extraction could be something with the front part of the chamber / forcing cone...

it could be a very oversized chamber... if a maverick 88 is highly polished... that is unusual as they are the cheapest pump in the market...

the chamber could have had a flaw and the removal and polishing made the chamber out of spec....

everything has a spec... springs, chambers... everything...

I would send it back to mossberg with 5 live rounds that you know will not extract once fired
I didn't check my Maverick barrel. It doesn't have as big an extraction problem as my Mossberg. Mossberg has a smooth chamber.

My crystal ball is on the fritz so I don't know which shells won't extract after being fired.
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Old 12-11-2023, 3:47 PM
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2.5 shells for 12 gauge were common up through the 30s. 2 inch shells were also made. Obviously not the issue here. Weird question, but have you tried having someone else shoot the gun?
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Old 12-11-2023, 4:07 PM
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I was trying to be gentle... in case someone was firing 3" in a 2 3/4" gun...


Yes they chamber.... yes they are nasty to extract.... petals open in the forcing cone
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Old 12-12-2023, 7:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imageview View Post
2.5 shells for 12 gauge were common up through the 30s. 2 inch shells were also made. Obviously not the issue here. Weird question, but have you tried having someone else shoot the gun?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
I was trying to be gentle... in case someone was firing 3" in a 2 3/4" gun...


Yes they chamber.... yes they are nasty to extract.... petals open in the forcing cone
I am way too cheap to buy 3" shells.
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Old 12-13-2023, 12:27 AM
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I'd try Win AA, Rem STS, Federal HOA. See it the issue narrows.

These all have brass bases.

For steel base, I've had good luck with Rem Gun Club. Terrible luck with Fed Top Gun. I haven't shot Super-X but nowadays they are the same crappy hull as Universal.
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  #20  
Old 12-13-2023, 9:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
I've only "test" fired both shotguns so far. Maybe 10-15 shells through each one. The difficulty of following this suggestion is the range that's closest to me only allows birdshot, and when I ever use it for serious purposes it will be only buckshot and slugs...
Have you tested them with your "serious" ammo?
If "serious" means HD, it's even more important to make sure the ammo/firearm combination does not cause a malfunction.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
...That had been my original plan but it's a huge pain boxing a shotgun for shipping. Finding a box long enough is very difficult..
Have you tried asking your local gun shop for one?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JagerDog View Post
I'd try Win AA, Rem STS, Federal HOA. See it the issue narrows. These all have brass bases...
I had previously checked some spent 12 ga hulls - AA & Rem (Nitro & STS), with the spent primer in them, at the outside edge of the base with a strong magnet and I could feel a slight magnetic attraction. The magnet (even though it was on the outer edge) must have been sensing the primer.

So, I de-primed some empty hulls AA (red & grey) & Rem (Nitro & STS) and rechecked them. Low and behold, you are most correct sir.
Thanks for making me go out test them the proper way.

The de-primed Herter's 20 ga (brass washed steel apparently) still attracts a magnet.
I'm pretty sure the 20 ga Fiocci's that I had problems with were also brass washed steel. I'll look for a hull (maybe I should just buy a box), the next time I go to the skeet range.
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  #21  
Old 12-13-2023, 12:12 PM
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my 870 3.5" Express would jam on the cheapest (Winchester?) Walmart ammo but ran fine on the almost as cheap Rem ammo at Walmart.
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Old 12-13-2023, 1:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
I finally got to shoot my Maverick 88. It hangs up on extraction sometimes. I was using Winchester Super X, but it still had steel bases. One friend thought that was the problem, but it seems like even expensive shells have steel bases these days, but just with a brass wash. I checked some expensive shells too, but same story, attracts a magnet even though it's brass colored.

I checked the inside of one of the barrels, and it's as smooth as a baby's butt. No burrs or ridges, or anything. What do I do? Get rid of these guns and buy real expensive ones? Anyone else have cheap shotguns that extract and feed without problems?
Based on my three shotguns in the past: Mossberg 590A1, Mossberg 930, and Remington 870, I had to do polishing of the chamber, tuning the extractor before they became reliable with those cheaper bulk shotgun ammunition.

Now a days, I own a Stoeger M3K and Benelli Super Nova Tactical. Needless to say, they are both reliable out of the box and I am at peace deploying them for HD/personal use.

Other's might have a better experience with the Mossberg and Remington brands and I don't disparage their feedback. My experience was different though.

YMMV.
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Old 12-13-2023, 5:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBGBA View Post
Have you tested them with your "serious" ammo?
If "serious" means HD, it's even more important to make sure the ammo/firearm combination does not cause a malfunction.
No. My range doesn't allow slugs or buck. At some point I'd have to find a place I could shoot them. Doesn't really matter right now because they won't even shoot birdshot.

Quote:
Have you tried asking your local gun shop for one?
Not yet, I've been hoping to avoid shipping the guns.
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Old 12-13-2023, 6:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DArBad View Post
Based on my three shotguns in the past: Mossberg 590A1, Mossberg 930, and Remington 870, I had to do polishing of the chamber, tuning the extractor before they became reliable with those cheaper bulk shotgun ammunition.

Now a days, I own a Stoeger M3K and Benelli Super Nova Tactical. Needless to say, they are both reliable out of the box and I am at peace deploying them for HD/personal use.

Other's might have a better experience with the Mossberg and Remington brands and I don't disparage their feedback. My experience was different though.

YMMV.
Interestingly I bought your 870 and it was perfectly reliable, so whatever you did worked. I eventually passed it to a good friend and between the two of us and his kids we?ve fed thousands of rounds through it with no hitches.
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Old 12-13-2023, 6:58 PM
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Put aside that ammo. Buy something else, put a few hundred through it and then try it again. If you hone your chamber which isn’t a bad idea you might void your warranty.

Returning the gun sounds like a hassle. They will likely just try some ammo they know works and send it back saying it’s fine. So play with ammo for a while. And when you run it, run it with authority. A lot of malfunctions are user error.
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Old 12-13-2023, 7:13 PM
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try federal they are fluted
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Old 12-14-2023, 3:00 PM
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Quote:
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Interestingly I bought your 870 and it was perfectly reliable, so whatever you did worked. I eventually passed it to a good friend and between the two of us and his kids we?ve fed thousands of rounds through it with no hitches.
Hello, hello, hello...good to hear from you again.

Yeah, I polished the chamber real good, replaced the stock extractor and extractor spring, upgraded the " carrier dog " spring with a stronger one from a Remington Police 870, and if you've noticed, I also polished the two pump " bars " and recesses so that the pump glides smooooothly .

I had to break many sharp areas near the ejection port because I cut my hand in those areas, and I had to polish the edges of the recess areas of the extractor near the chamber barrel because there were burrs there as well.

ONLY when I was satisfied that everything is as it should be, did I put it on sale. Glad my ministrations worked well for you.

Last edited by DArBad; 12-15-2023 at 1:55 AM..
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Old 12-14-2023, 3:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deckhandmike View Post
Put aside that ammo. Buy something else, put a few hundred through it and then try it again. If you hone your chamber which isn?t a bad idea you might void your warranty.

Returning the gun sounds like a hassle. They will likely just try some ammo they know works and send it back saying it?s fine. So play with ammo for a while. And when you run it, run it with authority. A lot of malfunctions are user error.
A few hundred, lol. I have to do some fast talking at the range to get them to let me do a tube full.
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Old 12-14-2023, 3:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DArBad View Post
Hello, hello, hello...good to hear from you again.

Yeah, I polished the chamber real good, replaced the stock extractor and extractor spring, upgraded the " dog " spring with a stronger one from a Remington Police 870, and if you've noticed, I also polished the two pump " bars " and recesses so that the pump glides smooooothly .

I had to break many sharp areas near the ejection port because I cut my hand in those areas, and I had to polish the edges of the recess areas of the extractor near the chamber barrel because there were burrs there as well.

ONLY when I was satisfied that everything is as should be, did I put it on sale. Glad my ministrations worked well for you.
Which model was it, an express?
What did you use to polish the chamber?
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Old 12-14-2023, 3:36 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBGBA View Post
Which model was it, an express?
What did you use to polish the chamber?
Yes, it was an Express.

I used a XXX steel wool soaked in synthetic Mobil 1 oil, and used a wooden dowel rod (forgot the size, 1/2 or 3/4 inch). I took my sweet time doing it, as I didn't want to rush the process like what you see on a lot of you tube videos.

As a final touch, I used a jewelers rouge with smear of jewelers polish.

I had the patience to do these things then. Not anymore.

PS: That recess where the hook of the extractor snaps into the chamber to grab the base of the shell, you need to be anal in making sure that place has nice crisp edges. Mine came stock with burrs. I had to break that with jewelers file and polished.

Last edited by DArBad; 12-14-2023 at 3:39 PM..
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Old 12-14-2023, 4:19 PM
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Is XXX steel wool the same as 000 steel wool?

I tried 0000 steel wool with gun oil on it, wrapped around a bore brush, chucked in a cordless drill.
Didn't seem to make a difference at all. I think the steel wool was too fine.
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Old 12-14-2023, 4:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBGBA View Post
Is XXX steel wool the same as 000 steel wool?

I tried 0000 steel wool with gun oil on it, wrapped around a bore brush, chucked in a cordless drill.
Didn't seem to make a difference at all. I think the steel wool was too fine.
LOL, that's what I meant.

If your chamber is really rough, you may need something like a car body sand paper, perhaps along the line of 2000 grit or 1500 grit. And while most you tubers use a cordless drill, I used a wooden dowel.

Last edited by DArBad; 12-15-2023 at 1:57 AM..
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Old 12-14-2023, 4:58 PM
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Just got some AA at Walmart. It was cheaper than the Super-X I bought before!
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Old 12-16-2023, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBGBA View Post
Have you tested them with your "serious" ammo?
If "serious" means HD, it's even more important to make sure the ammo/firearm combination does not cause a malfunction.




Have you tried asking your local gun shop for one?




I had previously checked some spent 12 ga hulls - AA & Rem (Nitro & STS), with the spent primer in them, at the outside edge of the base with a strong magnet and I could feel a slight magnetic attraction. The magnet (even though it was on the outer edge) must have been sensing the primer.

So, I de-primed some empty hulls AA (red & grey) & Rem (Nitro & STS) and rechecked them. Low and behold, you are most correct sir.
Thanks for making me go out test them the proper way.

The de-primed Herter's 20 ga (brass washed steel apparently) still attracts a magnet.
I'm pretty sure the 20 ga Fiocci's that I had problems with were also brass washed steel. I'll look for a hull (maybe I should just buy a box), the next time I go to the skeet range.
The new Fed HOA is an STS hull, just a different color. For years Feds better hull was the straight wall Gold Medal. No longer and Fed and Rem ammo are now owned by the same Czech parent company.
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Old 12-17-2023, 7:28 AM
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My BPS had a similar extraction problem when new. Upon disassembly, found a very small metal chip under the extractor that was preventing the extractor from making 100% contact with the shell. YMMV.
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Old 12-17-2023, 3:01 PM
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Doesn't sound similar to my problem at all.
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