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Airguns, AirSoft and MilSim Air rifles and pistols, AirSoft and Mil Sim Discussion

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  #1  
Old 07-31-2021, 9:32 AM
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Default Airsoft translation to real firearms (T-Rex Arms)

Anyone watch this video from a while ago?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1y8ENfbaig

I'm curious what the thoughts of people who have done both are.

This is probably been posted somewhere but I couldn't find it anywhere on the site.
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Old 07-31-2021, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceKnight366 View Post
Anyone watch this video from a while ago?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1y8ENfbaig

I'm curious what the thoughts of people who have done both are.

This is probably been posted somewhere but I couldn't find it anywhere on the site.
Dont recall this one but watched the one with the Japanese kid.

Anything that gets people off their *** and practice good fundamentals is going to be beneficial. Whether its as simple as trigger finger discipline or practicing timed reload drills, airsoft replicas are very accurate from what Ive seen.
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  #3  
Old 08-02-2021, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by anthracite View Post
Dont recall this one but watched the one with the Japanese kid.

Anything that gets people off their *** and practice good fundamentals is going to be beneficial. Whether its as simple as trigger finger discipline or practicing timed reload drills, airsoft replicas are very accurate from what Ive seen.
Have you ever trained using it?
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Old 08-09-2021, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by IceKnight366 View Post
Have you ever trained using it?
I have.
If you're looking to use airsoft guns as a range training supplement, I'm your nerd lol check out this playlist and see if it helps
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Old 08-11-2021, 5:17 PM
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Tatsuya Sakai won the 2004 Steel Challenge. He spends 11 months of the year practicing in Japan with airsoft pistols. Then 2 years in a row got DQ for getting on the trigger too early and firing the gun just after it cleared the holster.
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Old 08-11-2021, 5:34 PM
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Tatsuya Sakai won the 2004 Steel Challenge. He spends 11 months of the year practicing in Japan with airsoft pistols. Then 2 years in a row got DQ for getting on the trigger too early and firing the gun just after it cleared the holster.
Do you have any links to him getting DQ'd? I tried googling different phrases and couldn't find it.
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  #7  
Old 08-11-2021, 7:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamez View Post
I have.
If you're looking to use airsoft guns as a range training supplement, I'm your nerd lol check out this playlist and see if it helps
Nice! I'm looking for some people to train with in my area. Sucks that you're all the way in Sac.
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Old 08-12-2021, 11:46 AM
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Do you have any links to him getting DQ'd? I tried googling different phrases and couldn't find it.
I can't find anything on YouTube. It was covered by Shooting USA show.
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Old 08-13-2021, 10:32 AM
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you ever done martial arts? is sparring like a real fight ? Something is better then nothing, but no there is no substitute for the real thing.
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Old 12-22-2021, 9:20 AM
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So nobody on here actually practices this? It's a huge wasted opportunity imo.
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Old 12-22-2021, 9:45 AM
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you ever done martial arts? is sparring like a real fight ? Something is better then nothing, but no there is no substitute for the real thing.
And no different than punching paper or hitting steel at a range. There is no substitute for the real thing and the real thing at least for SD/HD means someone gets shot. Bear with me here:

When you practice there is no component where you know that when you fire that someone will be shot or if you miss you might get shot or injured/killed. You could say that all the use of a real gun and real ammo is key but that pales in comparison to the reality of using deadly force in real life.

When it comes to airsoft it's critical to choose wisely as they are lots of spacey looking airsoft guns out there and that brings very little value to the practice. However, if you pick higher quality airsofts like the licensed Glocks they are very close to the real deal in form and function even if their recoil isn't. It comes down to discipline. The green gas Glocks are really pretty good and you can up the recoil by using heavier weight airsoft BBS.

Part of using airsoft for practice is to understand and keep in mind the differences and not treat the airsoft with any less caution or attention to safety that the real item.

Its the same with the 1911s. Some are very good and the weight and feel are so close that blindfolded you would have a hard time telling them apart. The recoil of some of the 1911s is quite good, not real ammo good but enough to make you concentrate on post firing recovery.

Just as important in handling time. While you can handle your firearms often for some people just avoiding the obvious higher risk is enticing.

I use airsoft when the weather prohibits range time or the range is closed. The distances are no more than 5-7 yards and never are the airsoft and real guns in the same space together. I even have a check sheet where I inventory each real firearm and know it's secure before I touch an airsoft, I don't treat airsoft as toys but as just another tool to help with handling and other practice knowing the differences. I also make sure that if I practice with airsoft that the next opportunity is range time with the real deal.

Airline pilots get quite a bit of training via simulators, saying that simulator training (via airsoft) isn't the same as real while true, isn't what training with airsoft is all about. Lots of professional sports activities have some sort of simulator training from swinging ball bats to racing cars. Using airsoft for some simulation practice is valid.

Training with real guns and ammo is all simulation too, you aren't shooting anyone or any animal, it's all make believe until that one day in SD/HD or hunting where reality exists.
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Last edited by SharedShots; 12-22-2021 at 9:50 AM..
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  #12  
Old 12-22-2021, 10:31 AM
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Default Been some time

Before my son arrived on the scene and I was living the bachelor life, I used to train somewhat regularly with a group in the bay area for milsim/airsoft training. While as others have said it is not a replacement for live fire training, it is a great way to keep sharp and have a good time while practicing some of the basics (target identification, moving with cover and providing cover for movement, as well as really shaking out your kit.) I enjoyed it quite a bit and found that the training and folks that I trained with were good people. It is an easy way to spend a good amount of cash if you get into it as well to be forewarned. Some of the nice rifles cost almost as much as their real counterparts and good gear isn't cheap. Fort Ord was one of the places that held regular events and had a good amount of terrain with multi-story buildings and about 300 or so players.
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  #13  
Old 12-25-2021, 12:49 AM
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Are you actually training or playing? The difference to me would be the degree of realism in the planning, instruction, tactics, quality of the equipment not to have limitations inherent to cheaper airsoft products.

I've taken a lot of live fire courses that were as much about tactics as anything else. Have yet to take simunition courses. Back in the day took courses in the military with lasers, sensors, and blanks in our rifles. Can't remember what that system was called but it was pretty cool. Gave you the experience of aiming at a real rifle with a real person and pulling the trigger and hearing it go bang. In each case, the quality of the instructors was the key to how useful it was. Ironically the military courses paled in comparison to the courses I took as a civilian. Why? The instructors were better. They were free to design the courses themselves and could teach what works.

Last edited by tacticalcity; 12-25-2021 at 1:16 AM..
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Old 12-25-2021, 8:28 AM
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i have never tried airsoft, but have used dry fire laser training for years and now air rifle to develop muscle memory and increase trigger time without spending a lot of money on ammo.
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Old 01-05-2022, 10:09 AM
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I went with my own IR airsoft glock 19s with laser ammo and a projector/8 foot screen. Very realistic trigger time. The airsoft glocks also fit in duty holsters. Take a look at their live scenarios. I think it's even better than our departments FATS training that we had. Of course the best was when we wore a vest that got triggered by an IR hit by the instructers playing the bad guys in active shooter training. The vest didn't beep, instead it shocked the crap out of you! Taught you not to just stand there.
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Old 01-10-2022, 1:31 PM
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Recoil is nowhere near real (or even as much as a .22 for that matter). But it beats dry-fire training. I've used airsoft for practicing holster drills at home/backyard. My green-gas pistol mag will sometimes run out of gas which is a great simulation of an ammo stoppage and requires Immediate Action to clear and reload.

I'm not using it for practicing 25yrd Bullseye so accuracy is relative. At 7yrds accuracy is about the same. If you can hit center mass target with an airsoft pistol at 7yrds, you'll hit it with real bullets.

It weighs about the same. My airsoft Glock fits in a Safariland holster. But the dimensions aren't 100% accurate. The frame is just tad bit wider. A Surefire X300 can't be slid on the rail.
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Old 01-11-2022, 10:36 PM
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IIRC, Frank Garcia (pro competitor) practices regularly with airsoft.

I have a friend in Reno that does the same in his backyard to help with his competing.
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Old 01-20-2022, 7:27 PM
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Default Airsoft to Real Steel

"Real Steel" is what airsofters call real firearms.

I started getting tired of paying hundreds in to airsoft when I could put it in to real firearms.

I played indoors at Project N1. So I can't speak for how it translates to competition shooting.

I don't think the indoor skills translate too effectively. You learn some minor things like basic safety, finding your sight picture, not exposing body parts while clearing around corners. Trigger action is different because most of the time in airsoft you are trying to feather out 18+ RPS like paintball (spray and pray). A standard high cap mag could hold 300 bbs. You don't take your shots too sparingly or conserve ammo in any way.

Recoil is no where near the same. Electric airsoft is recoiless, and gas blowback is lighter than gunpowder, plus cold instead of hot gases.

You can get shot by po-po all the same for brandishing either, so you could learn a hard lesson there.
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Old 01-20-2022, 7:29 PM
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I would recommend checking out the Evike "mega store" in Monterey Park. It's a hella fun place.
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Old 01-21-2022, 5:16 PM
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Originally Posted by tacticalcity View Post
Are you actually training or playing? The difference to me would be the degree of realism in the planning, instruction, tactics, quality of the equipment not to have limitations inherent to cheaper airsoft products.

I've taken a lot of live fire courses that were as much about tactics as anything else. Have yet to take simunition courses. Back in the day took courses in the military with lasers, sensors, and blanks in our rifles. Can't remember what that system was called but it was pretty cool. Gave you the experience of aiming at a real rifle with a real person and pulling the trigger and hearing it go bang. In each case, the quality of the instructors was the key to how useful it was. Ironically the military courses paled in comparison to the courses I took as a civilian. Why? The instructors were better. They were free to design the courses themselves and could teach what works.
That military system was called "Miles" if I remember. "multiple integrated laser engagement system". Wore these strap on bands on the arms and legs, body and one that went around the helmet. Blank adapters on the M16/M14s. Yeah, none of the mother-may-I & hand holding stuff. Instructors were heads and tails above what you get at almost any school because it wasn't playing and there was no run through it 10 times and then try it for points, the next stop was other people shooting at you.

A significant percentage of training is the mental part, the mechanics of it are pretty much rote learning. You can teach almost anyone how to shoot and even shoot well, what is more difficult is the mental aspects such as discipline, discretion, awareness and so on and without that shooting is a mechanical or technical process.

The Miles system wasn't close to the real deal but you forgot that quickly because of the other aspects of the training that came into it. Real fast you got into using all those other skills you learned because no one wanted to be taken out. Airsoft can be just like that unless it's just a play thing.


-------------------------------------
Someone mentioned brandishing and getting shot by the cops. Well, yeah, if you are out there in a public place playing Rambo you can get shot. Like I said, discipline, discretion and awareness.

Many activities have alternative training methods, boxing, martial arts and just look how the car racing industry has adopted virtual training systems. It can mean the difference between keeping an edge as opposed to rebuilding every time you get to the real deal and that is a waste of time and with ammo costs also a waste of money.

I think it comes to understanding your training goals and using alternatives like airsoft not to replace but rather to add in another facet of training. When it comes to cold vs hot gases, if you take why you train to the real world where it's SD/HD then whether or not the gases are hot or cold doesn't matter, you won't notice. You'll notice at the range but then are you really going to expend 50-100 rounds in some SD/HD situation and even then, is that what will make any difference? I'd say not really because hopefully that is where discipline comes into the equation, and I could care less about the temp of the gasses. The same with recoil. I doubt anyone would ever stop to think, gee, that sure was snappy compared to the airsoft if they were desperate to save their hides.
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A SILENT MAJORITY will become a silent minority when those who have something to lose fear those who have something to gain. Defense is a losing proposition when time is on the side of the opponent.
You can have it one way or the other; you can have it both ways; you can have it every way but not always.

Last edited by SharedShots; 01-21-2022 at 5:23 PM..
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Old 01-24-2022, 7:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laetum View Post
"Real Steel" is what airsofters call real firearms.

I started getting tired of paying hundreds in to airsoft when I could put it in to real firearms.

I played indoors at Project N1. So I can't speak for how it translates to competition shooting.

I don't think the indoor skills translate too effectively. You learn some minor things like basic safety, finding your sight picture, not exposing body parts while clearing around corners. Trigger action is different because most of the time in airsoft you are trying to feather out 18+ RPS like paintball (spray and pray). A standard high cap mag could hold 300 bbs. You don't take your shots too sparingly or conserve ammo in any way.

Recoil is no where near the same. Electric airsoft is recoiless, and gas blowback is lighter than gunpowder, plus cold instead of hot gases.

You can get shot by po-po all the same for brandishing either, so you could learn a hard lesson there.
I recently came across this guy's page and, not going to lie, I really want to try it now haha.

https://www.instagram.com/true_remedyz/channel/?hl=en
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