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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #81  
Old 02-23-2021, 9:06 AM
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A quick boresnake through the barrel after each range trip does the trick for me. I'll deep clean everything once a year - which is probably still more often than needed, but I like the routine: deep clean & change batteries so I know they're good to go when I need them.
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  #82  
Old 02-23-2021, 9:38 AM
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Originally Posted by theLBC View Post
yeah, i said that above, but i was talking about the barrel.
that wasn't really dirty either.
That's right you did. I wish ARs ran as clean.

That said, over the years I've learned that each rifle has advantages. Comparing 5.56 rifles, the SCAR platform is extremely reliable and runs clean. However parts are expensive and difficult to buy for backup/repair.

The AR runs dirty like a dirty piece for farm equipment (actually, I usually call AKs farm equipment). Just squirt some oil on it and it will run dirty.

But the best thing about ARs is that parts are plentiful and cheap. Last time I checked I have 6 complete extra mil-spec bolts and 5 extra complete BCGs, two extra CHF barrels, three extra stripped upper receivers, 8 extra LPKs, 3 extra buffer tubes, multiple action springs, 8 extra buffers (various sizes), extra trigger, extra trigger springs, 12 cam pins, castle nuts, many extra roll pins in different sizes, gas tubes, etc.. Basically, multiples of every part of an AR.

I could never accomplish that for the SCAR. I tried for awhile. I even suggested that FNForum collectively ask FN for spare spring kits, bolt kits with firing pin, cam pin, etc. And screw kits. But it just didn't catch on.

So, SCAR parts are a pain to obtain. My biggest btch is the proprietary little tiny clip that hold the extractor pin in place. They are a one use deal and very hard to obtain. Why can't I get bolt parts for God's sake?
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  #83  
Old 02-23-2021, 9:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottsBad View Post
That's right you did. I wish ARs ran as clean.

That said, over the years I've learned that each rifle has advantages. Comparing 5.56 rifles, the SCAR platform is extremely reliable and runs clean. However parts are expensive and difficult to buy for backup/repair.

The AR runs dirty like a dirty piece for farm equipment (actually, I usually call AKs farm equipment). Just squirt some oil on it and it will run dirty.

But the best thing about ARs is that parts are plentiful and cheap. Last time I checked I have 6 complete extra mil-spec bolts and 5 extra complete BCGs, two extra CHF barrels, three extra stripped upper receivers, 8 extra LPKs, 3 extra buffer tubes, multiple action springs, 8 extra buffers (various sizes), extra trigger, extra trigger springs, 12 cam pins, castle nuts, many extra roll pins in different sizes, gas tubes, etc.. Basically, multiples of every part of an AR.

I could never accomplish that for the SCAR. I tried for awhile. I even suggested that FNForum collectively ask FN for spare spring kits, bolt kits with firing pin, cam pin, etc. And screw kits. But it just didn't catch on.

So, SCAR parts are a pain to obtain. My biggest btch is the proprietary little tiny clip that hold the extractor pin in place. They are a one use deal and very hard to obtain. Why can't I get bolt parts for God's sake?
yup. can't find a cam pin, but i did get a spare firing pin and some other parts.
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  #84  
Old 02-26-2021, 7:50 PM
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I shooting bud I knew worked at Anniston Army Depot on rebuild lines. After a lot of M4's/M16's were rebuilt, one would be pulled and fired 6000 rounds. I don't think they lubed them during the shoot, I was told they were fired fully automatic, when the magazine was changed compressed air was blown up the barrel during the magazine change. None of the rebuilds ever failed that he knew of. The AR mechanism has been developed to a reliable mechanism, but that was not always true.

Early M16's had lots of problems, there are entire books written about the issues of the Vietnam issue M16's. Hundreds, if not thousands, of good American boys died with jammed M16's in their hands, until hundreds of millions of dollars were spent fixing little issues. Pretty much the M16's from 1968 on wards were reliable, as long as they were kept clean. Bud's that are Vietnam veterans, and the Vets I pulled targets with, told me the climate in Vietnam varied from everglades to mountainous. Guns carried in the swampy areas of the delta had to be cleaned daily. SOP was not to leave a round in the chamber overnight as cartridges would rust in the chamber and could not be extracted in the morning. One Company Commander I talked with, he made his men field strip and clean every marching break. He said the malfunction rate really dropped after that. I am sure his troops hated cleaning so often. Everything rusted badly, I was told that disembarking from the aircraft, the smell and humidity were like a slap in the face.

California has such a benign environment that few living in California have any concept of how nasty tropical and sub tropical environments are, unless they have lived in them. Guys came down with skin diseases, due to molds and fungi, that they still have a half century later.

Some Veterans may remember this PM magazine. It was to teach grunts about cleaning the M16.




I pulled targets with Soldiers who went into Iraqi. The dusty, sandy parts of Iraqi, they were cleaning their M16's/M4's three times a day, even if they had not fired the things. The AR15 mechanism is dust and dirt sensitive and if your life depends on it, it needs to be kept clean.

This might be of interest.:



The Army has been lubrophobic since the early low number 03's, and it came out of Korea even more paranoid about lubrication. Oils froze in Korean winters and guns failed to function. I met a number of Vietnam veterans who were told to run their guns dry. This was bad advice. It has taken time, but the AR action is more reliable wet. There are very few military direct impingement mechanisms because the things blow a lot of fouling directly into the locking mechanism. Basically, direct impingement craps where it eats. Oil solvates powder residues and keeps the weapon running longer than if it was dry. Detergent motor oils are great for the AR, as the oil is designed to dissolve crap. A well oiled AR is easy to wipe out with paper towels, though the barrel extension that has the locking lugs takes about a half dozen Q Tips to clean.

I would never let an AR get as fouled as the nasty AR picture in this thread. Where I live, all that carbon would attract water and create rust. And I am going to tell you, if you are in a military unit, a good NCO will be all over your butt, making you keep your weapon clean. A soldier whose weapon won't fire is a liability to the group.
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  #85  
Old 02-26-2021, 9:06 PM
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Because dirty rifles wear out sooner, lose accuracy sooner.......if you care about such things. Do you just add oil to your car or change it regularly? Do you wash your clothes or just shake them out
What's the bore look like under all that junk I wonder?

I don't find that picture particularly alarming, since there is not a lot of stuff that in the receiver I'd worry that much about rusting... I'd never let it get that gunky myself.... but my OCD would eat me alive over little rust gremlins turning the bore into a moon landscape while hiding under a layer of carbon and/or copper.
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  #86  
Old 02-27-2021, 11:42 AM
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Junk in the weapon can cause the extractor / bolt / bolt carrier to not seat squarely causing them to wear unevenly with time. A clean oiled weapon rides smoothly, evenly, seating squarely all minimizing wear.........if one is concerned about those things.
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  #87  
Old 02-27-2021, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by theLBC View Post
yup. can't find a cam pin, but i did get a spare firing pin and some other parts.
Have you ever pulled the extractor to examine it? I did, and found brass shavings under it. The problem is that there is this tiny custom clip that holds the extractor pin from falling out.

That clip is hard....scratch that, very hard/impossible to find. That makes it impossible to do a full inspection without reusing the clip that is supposed to be a one time use part.

I was able to obtain action springs, firing pins, and a few other small parts, but the are gaps in my spare parts because of availability.
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  #88  
Old 02-27-2021, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by slamfire1 View Post
I shooting bud I knew worked at Anniston Army Depot on rebuild lines. After a lot of M4's/M16's were rebuilt, one would be pulled and fired 6000 rounds. I don't think they lubed them during the shoot, I was told they were fired fully automatic, when the magazine was changed compressed air was blown up the barrel during the magazine change. None of the rebuilds ever failed that he knew of. The AR mechanism has been developed to a reliable mechanism, but that was not always true.

..................
Good information. Thank you and the other vets for your service to America.
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  #89  
Old 02-27-2021, 12:24 PM
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Good information. Thank you and the other vets for your service to America.
btw, mototech has cam pins now, but they are expensive compared to the $7 oem part.
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  #90  
Old 02-27-2021, 12:56 PM
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Cam pin for $5 here

https://www.apfarmory.com/bolt-bolt-carriers/
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  #91  
Old 02-27-2021, 3:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Jarhead View Post
Junk in the weapon can cause the extractor / bolt / bolt carrier to not seat squarely causing them to wear unevenly with time. A clean oiled weapon rides smoothly, evenly, seating squarely all minimizing wear.........if one is concerned about those things.
And remember to scrape the crown of your barrel with your firing pin so it's all shiny!

/\ Don't do that. But swear to god our DIs had us do that in boot camp. And since nobody ever told us "we're only having you do that so it looks clean for inspection purposes, we don't care much about these fleet hand me downs", I wonder how many M16A2 crowns out in the fleet were subsequently ruined because of my platoon.
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  #92  
Old 02-27-2021, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
Maybe you need an AK. The MAK-90 I had, had chrome lined everything. Never cleaned it from the day I owned it. Then it got stolen, so the bastid that stole it had to clean it, lol.
He doesn't really need to clean the AR as well as he is doing either. It's preferrence. He's taking care of something as best can because he values it. He'd clean the AK just as much...actually more. They get really dirty. That Russian ammo is nasty stuff. You can see the cloud of smoke as you shoot it.

I keep my guns clean whether they need it or not as well. Just good practice. Makes sure they last for generations. That said none of them are spotless. I rarely go beyond a simple field strip. I use boresnakes for the barrels, and a rag and gun cleaner/oil combo for the rest. So there is definately stuff that gets missed. Every few years I'll strip them all the way down and give everything a good scrubbing. But it's rare.

I am just about out of the last of my Clenzoil...which I thought was no longer made. But I just found it online. Awesome!!!

Last edited by tacticalcity; 02-27-2021 at 4:35 PM..
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  #93  
Old 02-27-2021, 5:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarhead View Post
Because dirty rifles wear out sooner, lose accuracy sooner.......if you care about such things. Do you just add oil to your car or change it regularly? Do you wash your clothes or just shake them out
I would like to mention the Gunclub President is one of these that never cleans his rifles or pistols. Recently he offered me a good price on a pre 64 M7 300 WM. The stock was a 1950's Fajen, and he shot out the 264 Win Mag barrel and installed a custom (looks Douglas barrel)

But I know the old coot and his habits so when I have the 300 WM in my hands, I look down the barrel. Looked like a sewer pipe, rifling hard to see. Then I ask him for a cleaning rod and brush to make sure it is not rusted. Pres says that "I have one somewhere" and while he is looking for it, he hands me what had to be a chamber brush on the end of a cleaning rod. I got that stuck in the barrel, and Pres had to find a rubber mallet, which I used to beat the cleaning rod through. Once that thing was out, I told him, find the proper brush. And he does. I don't know if he had two, but he found the one he had. I find something that looks like a cleaning rest, run the brush first ten pushes hard. I saw dust come out of the end of the barrel. I then dipped his one and only bore brush in Hoppes and pushed it through for at least 15 more strokes. I found a cleaning patch and a jag and pushed that though. What I saw was a mirror image tube and good rifling. He had never cleaned the barrel and it was horribly copper fouled.

I purchased the rifle and he handed me his reloading data. He had been shooting the rifle, off and on, for ten years, groups were not good. One note was "finally got the rifle to shoot well". I think all the frustration he went through was why he sold me the rifle, and I doubt that he ever got the rifle to shoot well, it was just a statistical fluke.

I have not shot the thing yet, going to pull the action, check the bedding and the clearance in the barrel channel. At one point he completely filled the barrel channel with epoxy, to bed the barrel, and his notes indicate he removed it. There is not much clearance on the sides, so barrel binding must have been going on.

But I am going to say, if you don't clean your barrel, you won't know if it has copper fouled, and nothing you do reloading wise, after the barrel is copper fouled, will shoot worth a damn.

When I shoot the bugger, I will be dipping my bullets in grease, now that I know the barrel is a fouler

either ahead of time



or at the range.



I have found, blow enough grease up the barrel, and you won't have jacket fouling.



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  #94  
Old 02-27-2021, 5:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rover View Post
I too hate cleaning ARs, but I found a foolproof solution, don't clean them.

Eventually you'll get some jams, but you should be practicing clearing jams anyway, so it's a win/win.
This^^^^
The only thing I have to "deep" clean is my black powder revolver
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  #95  
Old 02-27-2021, 7:35 PM
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Love cleaning guns. The end.
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  #96  
Old 02-27-2021, 7:48 PM
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People clean their guns? Ain’t nobody got time for that! Just get another
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