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  #1  
Old 02-22-2021, 10:27 AM
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Default The future of FFLs and transfers in Cali

From what I’ve seen and experienced, the whole PPT and ammo paperwork has pretty much choked up most FFLs.

Soon “precursor” parts like triggers and maybe even stocks might be included as requiring background checks. Heck even a scope might one day be required to go through an FFL.

This will turn purchasing anything at all gun stores into a 3 hour ordeal. Is this a plan to make buying gun related objects such a hassle the sport dies?

My question is, what can we do to avoid the FFL gridlock? There’s a real problem with buying ammo and transferring guns in California.

Do we really have any options other than appointments two months out or three hour lines?

Are PpTs of guns and ammo going to be rejected by all FFLs ?
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Old 02-22-2021, 10:45 AM
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and yet the courts don't consider these hoops an infringement.
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Old 02-22-2021, 12:19 PM
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They haven’t waited in a line yet.
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Old 02-22-2021, 2:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
From what I’ve seen and experienced, the whole PPT and ammo paperwork has pretty much choked up most FFLs.

Soon “precursor” parts like triggers and maybe even stocks might be included as requiring background checks. Heck even a scope might one day be required to go through an FFL.

This will turn purchasing anything at all gun stores into a 3 hour ordeal. Is this a plan to make buying gun related objects such a hassle the sport dies?

My question is, what can we do to avoid the FFL gridlock? There’s a real problem with buying ammo and transferring guns in California.

Do we really have any options other than appointments two months out or three hour lines?

Are PpTs of guns and ammo going to be rejected by all FFLs ?
Your questions and concerns are rhetorical.
All your points are valid and have been beat to death within this forum over past months and years.

The process of firearms transfers and ammunition acquisition are clearly delineated in assorted CA Codes which regulate the industry. Unless the laws change (and conservative thinking regains a foothold) we FFL's/you are stuck with what gets regurgitated from Sacramento by a legislature that is ignorant of not only the processes we are bound to but the nature of the shooting and hunting industry.

I see no easy solution on the horizon. And all the bitching and moaning, no matter how valid, by dissatisfied customers doesn't help the situation and only tends to add another straw on the back of your local FFL who, were it not for his/hers/ investment of time and money into their business, would probably dearly love to find another endeavor and shed themselves of the daily grief.
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Old 02-22-2021, 4:01 PM
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OP - the one-word answer is, “yes.”

Seriously, a freaking ammo transfer takes 15-20 minutes and I have to print a minimum of 4 pieces of paper — 2 background checks (mine and the buyer’s), 2 more for each type of ammo and copy the buyer’s driver license and sometimes birth certificate or passport.

Then I have to staple everything together — including an invoice if it is a mail order transaction — and keep it in a binder for five years.
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Old 02-22-2021, 4:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ronlglock View Post
OP - the one-word answer is, “yes.”

Seriously, a freaking ammo transfer takes 15-20 minutes and I have to print a minimum of 4 pieces of paper — 2 background checks (mine and the buyer’s), 2 more for each type of ammo and copy the buyer’s driver license and sometimes birth certificate or passport.

Then I have to staple everything together — including an invoice if it is a mail order transaction — and keep it in a binder for five years.
Boy, you've got me wondering...? Are you not a vendor? Why do you do a background check on yourself?
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LCM's ruled legal 3/29/2019
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Old 02-22-2021, 6:10 PM
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Default The future of FFLs and transfers in Cali

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Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
Boy, you've got me wondering...? Are you not a vendor? Why do you do a background check on yourself?

Background check is done on the buyer... when I said “me” I mean that I have to keep a load of paperwork for every ammo transaction that goes through the store.

Just describing the process for folks who don’t know how it works.
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Last edited by ronlglock; 02-22-2021 at 6:12 PM..
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Old 02-23-2021, 7:58 AM
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Add “precursor parts” to the background check line and this is really going to create a bottleneck. I think this is a planned attempt to drive FFLs to either insanity or insolvency, or both.

It is not the gun communities job to automate this backward, time and labor intensive activity but I think we might think of ways to streamline the process or we all will suffer.

This is classic infringement by red tape.
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  #9  
Old 02-23-2021, 10:29 AM
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Thats the idea... they want to make it impossible to run a viable business.

Take the PPT fee for example.....in Los Angeles County where I am, minimum wage is $14.00 per hour, oh and nobody here makes the minimum, but lets suppose we did have an employee that does. Now, it usually takes about 30 minutes start to finish, get both customers logged in, log in the gun, do the DROS have both parties check, sign thumbprint, deliver at day 10 etc.. That means it cost me $7.00 in employee time to facilitate it. Leaving a $3.00 profit off the whole shebang. Now what happens when you have minimum wage employees? You get minimum effort and thought process, so now our $14 per hour dude makes a clerical mistake and costs us $1000 a fine during a DOJ audit. We would have to process 333 PPTs to cover the $1000 lost in fines. Also that $3.00 profit is hardly enough to maintain bills such as rent, electricity, insurance, internet connections, computer systems, annual fees such as FFL renewals.

That's their end game, make it impossible to run a successful business selling firearms. They make laws that are confusing, they make policies that change each year and now they want to cite and fine any dealer who makes a clerical mistake.

So to answer the question, I dont see how its going to be a viable long term business model in CA. I suppose big box retailers will be able to survive, but mom and pop shops will have to close up.

Part of this whole insanity is why we stopped doing ammunition transfers. The time associated with it doesn't compute out to make any profit from it. In my $.02 ammo transfers should cost the same as a firearms transfer when you have to do all that extra paperwork. Its just to much of a PITA to deal with. You would make more profit running an illegal lemonade stand than you would doing PPTs all day long.
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Last edited by acespawnshop; 02-23-2021 at 10:31 AM..
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  #10  
Old 02-23-2021, 12:34 PM
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I wish we could get the ammo bill before Beinitiz for some injunctive relief. Its just crazy how bad that has thrown a monkey wrench in the machine.
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  #11  
Old 02-23-2021, 1:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
I wish we could get the ammo bill before Beinitiz for some injunctive relief. Its just crazy how bad that has thrown a monkey wrench in the machine.
And it is an absolutely useless process.
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So, now it is ironic that the State whittles away at the right of its citizens to defend themselves from the possible oppression of their State.
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LCM's ruled legal 3/29/2019
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