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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #801  
Old 01-03-2024, 6:24 AM
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I agree. The constitutional question of whether government may prohibit open carry if it allows licensed concealed carry needs a firm Supreme Court answer sooner rather than later.
SCOTUS needs to get these Bruen response bills under control. We can?t wait 10 years for the next case.
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  #802  
Old 01-03-2024, 7:46 AM
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We are hopeful but not assured that our original 3 judge panel will be assigned this case as a take back case since Muller ignored their order. If this is the case we would likely prevail since our panel was not friendly to the states case at all. They were also pretty blunt in rebuking judge Muller for her unabashed advocacy for the state?s case.
Should we win at the appellate level, it will be a huge blow to California?s hatred of our Bill of Rights. No doubt the en banc would step in at that point, since they are primarily, with some very notable exceptions, Democrat operatives hell bent on eliminating the Second Amendment.
I am a committed Christian. God is in charge. If we are supposed to win, nothing will stop us! I hope with the recent (SB2) infringement of our Right to self defense, in addition to the Ninth Circuits continuing war on all things 2A, that perhaps the big gun orgs will see the light on Constitutional carry. We cannot trust a government that does not trust its own people. There is a list of things we?re have the right to! Or do we live in a police state where the people who created government to secure Liberty have become slaves to the government we created?
Look, the expensive part of this is about to begin. It is primarily the people of Siskiyou, Ans Shasta counties who have supported this lawsuit. We are going to try for another fundraiser in Yreka in early March. The well here is drying up. Our county is at war with the state over dam removal, water rights, the endangered species hoax, land use rights, cartel drug activities, etc etc etc.
Please help if you want to see the Liberty to self defense restored. For over 200 years that I can prove, open carry of loaded weapons was unrestricted, and quite unremarkable under Spanish, Mexican, and California law. We were stripped of our unalienable right for racially motivated reasons. That is the indisputable history of California! California did not want Mexicans, Chinese, or Blacks to carry.
Please help! I cannot win without YOU! If you know anyone in the big gun orgs, ask them to help. There is no chance I can afford to keep this going on my own. If you don?t help, we will lose what little Liberty we have left.
God Bless you all
Mark
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  #803  
Old 01-03-2024, 10:48 AM
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I agree. The constitutional question of whether government may prohibit open carry if it allows licensed concealed carry needs a firm Supreme Court answer sooner rather than later.
The constitutional question of whether government may prohibit open carry if it allows licensed concealed carry, but subjectively, and only after an onerous, expensive and often lengthy process, needs a firm Supreme Court answer sooner rather than later. FIFY
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  #804  
Old 01-03-2024, 1:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Drivedabizness View Post
The constitutional question of whether government may prohibit open carry if it allows licensed concealed carry, but subjectively, and only after an onerous, expensive and often lengthy process, needs a firm Supreme Court answer sooner rather than later. FIFY
You raise a fair point, but CRPA already has a separate lawsuit challenging the California concealed carry license onerous fees, unreasonable training mandates, lengthy processing times, subjective interview requirements, and invasive character reference questions.
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  #805  
Old 01-04-2024, 3:14 PM
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The Bill of Rights are negative rights. Congress shall make no law,
The right of the people shall not be infringed, No soldier shall, shall not be violated, no person shall be held, etc.

The governmental power absolutely limited by the Bill of Rights has no jurisdiction to allow or to disallow the right itself.
What is the point of a charter of rights, when government has the authority, or jurisdiction to water down or all but eliminate the ability of the people to exercise the right?
Judge Muller says that since California “can”, ( not shall, but can) allow concealed carry, that we don’t have a right to openly carry.
Judge Muller says that California can, (not shall) issue open carry permits in counties of less than 200k people, that the Second Amendment is satisfied. She failed to acknowledge that no such permit has ever been issued, that crossing a county line would make one a criminal, or that DOJ refuses to issue application forms for such permissions even though they “can”.
Is the Bill of Rights a vapid and non existent exercise subject to the whims of crooked judges, political hacks and bureaucrats? Or does the Bill of Rights define those activities which are pre-governmental, unalienable, God given rights, which are above governments policy table? NYSRPA v BREUN states that the Second Amendment is not a second class right. NYSRPA v BRUEN says that rights are not subject to successive lox ads of politicians to alter, because if they were they would be no rights at all!

Please help win this case! It is the defining moment where we the people declare that we are not servants of government. No we declare that we are the masters of the government we created to secure our Liberty.
I will not submit!
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  #806  
Old 01-04-2024, 3:14 PM
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The Bill of Rights are negative rights. Congress shall make no law,
The right of the people shall not be infringed, No soldier shall, shall not be violated, no person shall be held, etc.

The governmental power absolutely limited by the Bill of Rights has no jurisdiction to allow or to disallow the right itself.
What is the point of a charter of rights, when government has the authority, or jurisdiction to water down or all but eliminate the ability of the people to exercise the right?
Judge Muller says that since California ?can?, ( not shall, but can) allow concealed carry, that we don?t have a right to openly carry.
Judge Muller says that California can, (not shall) issue open carry permits in counties of less than 200k people, that the Second Amendment is satisfied. She failed to acknowledge that no such permit has ever been issued, that crossing a county line would make one a criminal, or that DOJ refuses to issue application forms for such permissions even though they ?can?.
Is the Bill of Rights a vapid and non existent exercise subject to the whims of crooked judges, political hacks and bureaucrats? Or does the Bill of Rights define those activities which are pre-governmental, unalienable, God given rights, which are above governments policy table? NYSRPA v BREUN states that the Second Amendment is not a second class right. NYSRPA v BRUEN says that rights are not subject to successive lox ads of politicians to alter, because if they were they would be no rights at all!

Please help win this case! It is the defining moment where we the people declare that we are not servants of government. No we declare that we are the masters of the government we created to secure our Liberty.
I will not submit!
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  #807  
Old 01-04-2024, 9:09 PM
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have you a website? mailing address? organization/ named? affiliation to engage? ...to lend support financially or otherwise. Thank you. Please feel free to PM as well_
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  #808  
Old 01-04-2024, 9:45 PM
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Yes we have a website but the webmaster has been ill for a long time and has not updated.
We have a C3 that has generously helped us with the financials. PECAN,
(People Educating Concerned Americans Now) accepts all the contributions for my case as well as several causes. I never touch or see the money. 100 percent goes to legal costs. PECAN gets the invoices for transcripts, filing and attorney and does the payments.
Contributions should be made out to
PECAN. ( put 2A in memo line of the check so it goes to correct account).
14421 Old Oregon Trail suite B
Redding California 96003

We are having a fundraiser in Yreka CA ( Siskiyou County),on Saturday March 2
To raise money for the case. Please help if you can. We are preparing our appeal to the Ninth Cir. We pray that we get the same panel of judges who unanimously reversed MULLER’S denial of our P.I.
From the time the Spaniards moved into Alta California until 1968 for open Carry and 2012 for open carry unloaded…..exposed. For 200 years it was unregulated and completely unremarkable for the people to openly carry loaded weapons for self defense, and defense from tyranny. In 1917 concealed carry began its journey to extinction to ensure that Mexicans and Chinese would not have access to carry. In 1968 with the ban on open carry of loaded weapons and bans on inexpensive handguns, California made sure that Urban Blacks and the rest of us would not have a Second Amendment. The journey to a complete ban on the God given, Natural Right of self defense continues with taxes on guns and ammo, SB2, etc.
I will ask all of you again. Do we the people have any Rights at all? The Constitution says we do. The language is plainly written and easy to understand for all but lawyers and crooked judges and the tyrants who run the police state of California. Do you have any faith or trust in a government that does not trust you with the same tools they use to protect themselves and their cronies?
I will not submit!
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  #809  
Old 01-05-2024, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mcbair View Post
We have a C3 that has generously helped us with the financials. PECAN,
(People Educating Concerned Americans Now) accepts all the contributions for my case as well as several causes. I never touch or see the money. 100 percent goes to legal costs. PECAN gets the invoices for transcripts, filing and attorney and does the payments.
Contributions should be made out to
PECAN. ( put 2A in memo line of the check so it goes to correct account).
14421 Old Oregon Trail suite B
Redding California 96003
Since I do not see a lot of online presence for this charity (not much af anything for that matter), just sharing PECAN's (Patriots Educating Concerned Americans Now) information I gleaned from searches.

IRS Search Link Search EIN: 27-1672341

Facebook Page link

Nothing on "X" (aka Twitter) except a few mentions from long ago.

If PECAN is the $$ machine for your lawsuit, I highly advise they get marketed to reach much further, especially on Social Media. Honestly, if this forum is its only exposure to generating funds, it's probably not going very far to those who don't know its existence and would probably like to help. I wouldn't discount word of mouth for exposure, but I wouldn't depend on it.

It's a great endeavor you are on Mark, and I DO hope it moves forward in 9th USCA favorably.
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  #810  
Old 01-05-2024, 3:18 PM
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Default Baird v. Becerra (USDC Eastern District of CA) Open Carry

FUND RAISING

Please make it easy to donate online instead of the pain in the rear check and snail mail.

Setup an account at givesendgo. They permit 2A causes.

https://www.givesendgo.com
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  #811  
Old 01-06-2024, 3:00 PM
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I strongly second the notion that a greater social media presence would help raise funds and potentially even attract attention from important Second Amendment influencers like Mark Smith.

Political problems with Big Tech platforms aside, many people within the modern gun rights activism community utilize social media to coordinate and communicate, to excellent effect, far better than before the existence of the internet.
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  #812  
Old 01-08-2024, 10:22 AM
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I’m am setting up a give, send go account linked to the C3. Will get webmaster to attach button and QR code to website. Appeal filing due end of January.

I’ll check in when the above stuff is finished. I’m also trying to get some of the gun orgs to file amicus in the Ninth when the time comes.

Thank you for the intern web advice.
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  #813  
Old 01-08-2024, 11:46 AM
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I?m am setting up a give, send go account linked to the C3. Will get webmaster to attach button and QR code to website. Appeal filing due end of January.

I?ll check in when the above stuff is finished. I?m also trying to get some of the gun orgs to file amicus in the Ninth when the time comes.

Thank you for the intern web advice.

Thank you. When the givesendgo is ready I will send the link and a plea to some of my 2A supporting friends who may not be aware of your case.
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  #814  
Old 01-08-2024, 5:00 PM
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Thank you. When the givesendgo is ready I will send the link and a plea to some of my 2A supporting friends who may not be aware of your case.
I plan on doing the same advocacy and making a modest contribution of my own.
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  #815  
Old 01-24-2024, 12:37 PM
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NOTICE of APPEAL by Mark Baird, Richard Gallardo as to 112 Judgment, 111 Order,, Terminate Civil Case,, Order on Motion for Summary Judgment,,,. (Filing fee $ 605, receipt number ACAEDC-11308967) (Bellantoni, Amy) (Entered: 01/24/2024)
From the district court docket. It appears the appeal has started.
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  #816  
Old 01-24-2024, 5:00 PM
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From the district court docket. It appears the appeal has started.
Godspeed. Nichols v. Newsom and Koppel v. Bonta have died, so Baird v. Bonta must live.
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  #817  
Old 01-31-2024, 10:37 AM
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Thank you, we are waiting to see what panel we get, and what the schedule is.
Still working on linking a give send go account to our C3.
Mar 2, in Yreka Ca fundraiser dinner. 1 in 10 chance of winning a gun!
Please help if you can
Tickets…….530-227-6729
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  #818  
Old 01-31-2024, 1:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbair View Post
For over 200 years that I can prove, open carry of loaded weapons was unrestricted, and quite unremarkable under Spanish, Mexican, and California law. We were stripped of our unalienable right for racially motivated reasons. That is the indisputable history of California! California did not want Mexicans, Chinese, or Blacks to carry.
Mark
The history of the State of California specifically discriminating based on race is well documented and undisputed. The most amazing aspect of this is that the legislature has formally apologized for making race-based gun laws. (During the Governator's time: quite recently.) Yet none of the known and admittedly racially discriminatory laws have been repealed. The legislature has a pattern and practice of racial discrimination.
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  #819  
Old 01-31-2024, 2:00 PM
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The apologies were nothing but empty virtue signaling platitudes to generate headlines and titillate identity politics-obsessed low-information voters. The California state legislature supports civilian disarmament via any means.
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  #820  
Old 02-01-2024, 9:06 PM
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The state admits that racist laws were not good. But, since they did it then, the state can ban carry now since it is an historic analogue. Bruen, Heller and McDonald rejected that logic but Judge Muller and her experts, oops I meant to say the state?s experts thought it was ok to use these racist laws as grounds to subjugate law abiding citizens. Chief Justice Taney denied Dred Scott his Liberty because he was afraid that in doing so Dred Scott would gain the Liberty and the right to carry weapons anywhere he wanted to, just like everyone else.
Well the state contends that unregulated open carry was never part of the Second amendment, so how can this be?
How could Christopher Spencer carry a loaded carbine up to the White House, knock on the door, ask to see President Lincoln?.knock on his door and be admitted into the office if open carry was banned? How could he and Lincoln have walked out onto the Capital Mall with this loaded assault rifle and had target practice I?d there were no such thing as open carry? How could President Andrew Jackson have constantly carried 2 pistols on his saddle, one in his belt, ( I assume concealed by his coat), and a long gun, if there were no such thing as open carry. How could the minute men of Lexington, and Concord have confronted and fired upon 700 plus soldiers of their own government if as California argues, open carry was never a thing and the bearing of arms was always frowned upon as the practice of ruffians?
Funny how the facts never square up with the state?s expert witnesses. The police chief retained by the state couldn?t even quote the second amendment.
Further this moron claimed on the record that he didn?t know what ?Constitutional Carry?, meant.
Please Stand with me to regain the Liberty we have allowed the liars and criminals who run California to take from us. As Ben Franklin said?.? If we do no hang together, we most assuredly will hang separately.?
Fundraiser Mar 2 at 4pm in Yreka California at the old Yreka High School gym
Prime rib dinner, lots of raffles. 530-227-6729 for tickets. If you can?t come please make a donation. If you stand with me we can do this!
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  #821  
Old 02-02-2024, 1:00 AM
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Best wishes for your fundraiser. God bless you and the patriots who attend.

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  #822  
Old 02-17-2024, 1:49 PM
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Www.tokeepandbear.com click on donate to help win this lawsuit.

We are waiting on the Ninth to announce the panel of judges. I am hoping for the same panel we had before. There is no indication of whether that will be the case or not. The panel will not be announced until one week before the oral arguments take place.
Thank you for any donation you can make to restore Liberty in the police state we find ourselves in.
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  #823  
Old 02-17-2024, 1:53 PM
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SUPPORT THE SECOND AMENDMENT

“There exists a law, not written down anywhere, but inborn into our hearts. A law which comes to us not by
training or custom or reading but by derivation and absorption and adoption from nature itself. A law which has
come to us not from theory but from practice; not by instruction but by natural intuition. I refer to the law whereby if
our lives are endangered by plots, or violence or armed robbers, or enemies, that any and all means of protecting
ourselves are morally right”. {Roman Senator Marcus Cicero}. Patrick Henry said, “ For in a Republic the
Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to
restrain the government, lest the government come to dominate their lives and interests.”
My case, Baird v Bonta, now in the 9th Circuit Court, is aimed to strike two sections of California Penal Code,
(25850, and 26350}. Those codes respectively ban the open carry of loaded or unloaded pistols. The open carry
of weapons in California was quite unremarkable and unregulated from the beginning of Spanish rule, the entirety
of Mexican rule and the entirety of California state history from 1848 until 2012 for unloaded weapons and 1968 for
loaded pistols. I hold that we the people of the United States and of California have the individual, unalienable,
natural right, to defend ourselves, our families and our communities. The right to self defense predates
government and is wholly undependant upon service in the militia. Further, the Right itself declares that it shall not
be infringed, and therefore requires no permission from any government agent. (see Cruishank v U.S.).
Baird v Bonta has already received one unanimous decision from a three judge panel in the Ninth Circuit. In
that decision the three judge panel ordered Judge Mueller in a reverse and remand to reconsider the Preliminary
Injunction which she denied. The panel ordered Judge Mueller to reconsider her denial based upon her abuse of
discretion, failure to consider likelihood of success on the merits of our case, along with many other judicial errors.
The panel ordered the judge to support and defend the Constitution whether she liked the document or not. The
panel ordered her to stop acting as an advocate of the state and to judge the merits of plaintiffs and defendants
case on the merits. Judge Mueller ignored the order of the Ninth Circuit panel and ruled against our case on
grounds of public safety, based upon racially discriminatory antebellum law, all of which has been categorically
rejected by the Supreme Court. We now find ourselves back in the Ninth Circuit, and perhaps,{if the 9th follows its
own rules}, in front of the same panel which has already found in our favor.

The behavior of California's governor and legislature demands the people vindicate the right of self defense! AB
109, AB47, the continuing release of criminal to our streets, the influx of drugs over the Southern boarder demand
more than ever that we are able to defend our lives, families, and property.

PLEASE HELP!
Donate by going to www.tokeepandbear.com or by sending a check to our fiduciary. Make check payable to:
PECAN (People educating concerned Americans now), put 2A on memo line.
Mail to: 14421 Old Oregon Trail, Suite B, Redding CA 96003
If you have further questions call me at 530-227-6729
Sincerely,
Mark Baird
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  #824  
Old 02-17-2024, 1:58 PM
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SUPPORT THE SECOND AMENDMENT

?There exists a law, not written down anywhere, but inborn into our hearts. A law which comes to us not by
training or custom or reading but by derivation and absorption and adoption from nature itself. A law which has
come to us not from theory but from practice; not by instruction but by natural intuition. I refer to the law whereby if
our lives are endangered by plots, or violence or armed robbers, or enemies, that any and all means of protecting
ourselves are morally right?. {Roman Senator Marcus Cicero}. Patrick Henry said, ? For in a Republic the
Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to
restrain the government, lest the government come to dominate their lives and interests.?
My case, Baird v Bonta, now in the 9th Circuit Court, is aimed to strike two sections of California Penal Code,
(25850, and 26350}. Those codes respectively ban the open carry of loaded or unloaded pistols. The open carry
of weapons in California was quite unremarkable and unregulated from the beginning of Spanish rule, the entirety
of Mexican rule and the entirety of California state history from 1848 until 2012 for unloaded weapons and 1968 for
loaded pistols. I hold that we the people of the United States and of California have the individual, unalienable,
natural right, to defend ourselves, our families and our communities. The right to self defense predates
government and is wholly undependant upon service in the militia. Further, the Right itself declares that it shall not
be infringed, and therefore requires no permission from any government agent. (see Cruishank v U.S.).
Baird v Bonta has already received one unanimous decision from a three judge panel in the Ninth Circuit. In
that decision the three judge panel ordered Judge Mueller in a reverse and remand to reconsider the Preliminary
Injunction which she denied. The panel ordered Judge Mueller to reconsider her denial based upon her abuse of
discretion, failure to consider likelihood of success on the merits of our case, along with many other judicial errors.
The panel ordered the judge to support and defend the Constitution whether she liked the document or not. The
panel ordered her to stop acting as an advocate of the state and to judge the merits of plaintiffs and defendants
case on the merits. Judge Mueller ignored the order of the Ninth Circuit panel and ruled against our case on
grounds of public safety, based upon racially discriminatory antebellum law, all of which has been categorically
rejected by the Supreme Court. We now find ourselves back in the Ninth Circuit, and perhaps,{if the 9th follows its
own rules}, in front of the same panel which has already found in our favor.

The behavior of California's governor and legislature demands the people vindicate the right of self defense! AB
109, AB47, the continuing release of criminal to our streets, the influx of drugs over the Southern boarder demand
more than ever that we are able to defend our lives, families, and property.

PLEASE HELP!
Donate by going to www.tokeepandbear.com or by sending a check to our fiduciary. Make check payable to:
PECAN (People educating concerned Americans now), put 2A on memo line.
Mail to: 14421 Old Oregon Trail, Suite B, Redding CA 96003
If you have further questions call me at 530-227-6729
Sincerely,
Mark Baird
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  #825  
Old 02-17-2024, 8:00 PM
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When has the Ninth Circuit scheduled the hearing?
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  #826  
Old 02-18-2024, 10:19 AM
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Our brief is due mid March. The Stae?s brief is due mid April.
Please help. If I cannot pay the attorney this case will die.
Www.tokeepandbear.com. Click on donate
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  #827  
Old 02-19-2024, 8:45 AM
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Done
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  #828  
Old 02-20-2024, 3:24 PM
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My friend, not a member here, just made a nice donation. I'll be hitting up more friends for donations tomorrow!
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Last edited by JDoe; 02-20-2024 at 4:41 PM..
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  #829  
Old 02-20-2024, 6:00 PM
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Old 02-21-2024, 9:24 PM
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My gratitude and thanks to all of you helping to win this case!
Please continue to spread the word. Our duty is to hand this nation to our children in at least as good a shape as it was in when we got it. I personally consider this a debt owed to my brothers in arms, who have given their last full measure to this nation. I would not want to have to explain to any of them how we squandered the gifts upon which so much blood was spent.
Www.tokeepandbear.com to help
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