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  #1  
Old 10-07-2019, 7:25 AM
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Default Question: A unique/nuanced (??) teaching situation?

Okay, looking for some advice here...

A colleague of mine got to experience firearms after a few range visits (indoor pistol range, and an outdoor skeet shooting range).

Now, he tells me he wants to get a firearm for home-defense (he lives in Orange County). He first tells me that he wants a shotgun, which, of course I recommended against since he and his family (husband & wife and 2 young girls) live in a connected townhouse. ... He didn't pursue the idea any further, and I thought he had given up on it.

Well, a few weeks later (Friday), he said he is now thinking of getting a handgun. Seeing how serious he is, I told him to get his FSC. I also recommended that he get a small easy access safe (like the Fort Knox PB4), for now. I lent him my copy of the USCCA's Complete Firearms and Family Defense Guide for 2019 and recommending him taking lessons, as well. I suggested checking out the Artemis Defense Institute based on his location. My karate sensei, who is also into firearms, has good feedback on the Artemis Defense Institute.

Nothing happens for a few weeks, and he comes back to me saying that he wants to get a REVOLVER. Okay.... He plans on loading the first FOUR (4) with non-lethal dummy/rubber rounds as deterrent, and the remaining would be live ammo.

I just shook my head there and there... All I could muster saying was that at an average room size of 7-yards, a serious attacker would be on to him before he even gets to his 3rd round. I added that at 7-yards, he will miss and is going to miss! .... I just didn't want go further in explaining the nuances lest he becomes confused (yeah, he is from the country that calls the 1911 as "the 45" and the AR15, the "Armalite"). Since we were extremely busy at work, I ended the small talk with "You've been influenced much by movies (one round is enough to take own an attacker), etc. First, take some lessons, then we can talk... .

I definitely want him to get into firearms, etc. but wouldn't know how to take this further in a smooth manner without being overbearing and confusing him... Yeah, being an accountant and IT person, he can be pretty anal!

The challenge here is breaking through his preconceived notions of firearms. Thoughts???

On the other hand, I am quite sure it will take a few more weeks before he takes action on anything.

Thanks in advanced!


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  #2  
Old 10-07-2019, 7:32 AM
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Just show him some “active self defense” YouTube channel videos.. he will see how “real” it gets within seconds and the need for lethal ammo on the first shot.
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Old 10-07-2019, 7:32 AM
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Why did you say no to shotguns?
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Old 10-07-2019, 7:38 AM
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If he and his family are good people, be supportive.

I have worked with people who were II. Intentionally incompetent

They purchased a “gun” and a box of ammo and felt ready for home defense.


They shot horrible and refused to learn how to clear malfunctions.


As we kept shooting- every 6-8 months, they realized they wanted to be able to hit smaller things- like a soda can target and a golf ball target.


As they shot more, they had a malfunction. When they looked at me with a puzzled expression - I yelled- the fight is still on- fix it- fix it -fix it- get back in the fight

I laughed and showed them step by step a safe way to clear the common malfunction.




Most people learn at different rates-

Be supportive

And it is harder for a kid to sneak a mossberg pump to school than a Glock.

It’s easier to hit in a home with a 12 gauge and low recoil buck than with a 1911 for most people
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Old 10-07-2019, 8:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
Most people learn at different rates-

Be supportive
This. Whether you like it or not, you're in the position to introduce someone to our sport/RKBA. Do it right.

You've mentioned training classes which are well and good; get him a Front Sight 2 day handgun certificate. Maybe try introducing him to some local competitive pistol shoots. Either one of those will probably break his preconceived notions about firearms and honestly give him a wake up call on the real world
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  #6  
Old 10-07-2019, 8:28 AM
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Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
Why did you say no to shotguns?
Townhome with thin walls. A frangible .45 will do nicely there.
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  #7  
Old 10-07-2019, 8:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhp1410 View Post
Just show him some “active self defense” YouTube channel videos.. he will see how “real” it gets within seconds and the need for lethal ammo on the first shot.
Good idea! I know exactly which channel.



Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
Why did you say no to shotguns?
He lives in a small connected townhouse (when I mean connected, two residences are "connected" by a single wall).

In a single-family residence, with a yard, etc. I would recommend a shotgun.



Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
If he and his family are good people, be supportive.
They are good people, and I absolutely want to be supportive. Hence me asking here how to go about this in the right manner.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustard View Post
This. Whether you like it or not, you're in the position to introduce someone to our sport/RKBA. Do it right.
No pressure here!

Seriously, as mentioned - that is the reason I posted here because I would like to proceed in the "right" manner.

Quote:
You've mentioned training classes which are well and good; get him a Front Sight 2 day handgun certificate. Maybe try introducing him to some local competitive pistol shoots. Either one of those will probably break his preconceived notions about firearms and honestly give him a wake up call on the real world
I did offer him several opportunities... He says he is NOT yet ready and/or doesn't want to, even for a 2-day at FS. Even a small match setting in Burro (the "No Name Pistol Club") wasn't to his liking... Obviously, I didn't want to impose on him, so I didn't push further... Well, maybe things will change if he does try out Artemis.



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  #8  
Old 10-07-2019, 8:55 AM
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Even experts like us once knew very little or nothing about firearms.... a long long time ago.

I actually like the choice of a revolver for someone who is new to firearms and I wouldn't look down at a friend if they chose to make the first round snake shot as long as every one of the other cylinder in the revolver is loaded with premium self-defense rounds.

I would just try to slowly explain that is very possible to make whatever live thing, whether it is animal or human, might just become more angry and dangerous if you start shooting with things that only sting.



Also.
I was also curious to see how much "home defense rubber bullets" (not to be confused with the plastic, rubber or wax bullets used sometimes for fast draw or indoor training) are currently going for and a quick search led me to find these ones...And of course are overpriced for what you are getting...


https://www.conceptsinammunition.com...ucts/38cal.htm
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  #9  
Old 10-07-2019, 10:52 AM
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I wouldn't sweat it. Odds are, he's not going to face a home invader anyway. After he buys whatever he thinks he'll need, his perspective will change and he'll buy several more guns. Did any of us stop at one gun?
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  #10  
Old 10-07-2019, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhp1410 View Post
Just show him some “active self defense” YouTube channel videos.. he will see how “real” it gets within seconds and the need for lethal ammo on the first shot.
And show him this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFBAcz16GvU

After watching it, I think he may switch back to semi-automatic pistol.

Another one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeSifTdEATo
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Last edited by sonofeugene; 10-07-2019 at 11:01 AM..
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  #11  
Old 10-07-2019, 11:19 AM
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He's probably all talk, but as a friend, you should hang in there to provide guidance if he actually is ready to buy and train, at some point.
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Old 10-07-2019, 11:22 AM
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Get a shotgun. Let him have his first less leathal round followed by #4 buck shells.

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Old 10-07-2019, 12:07 PM
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Groupon has some Artemis deals pretty cheap. They start them off with simunition and focus on safety, etc.

Why don’t you take him to a range to try some of your different handguns and/or rent some to see what he likes and dislikes. I always start off people with a .22 and work up from there. For revolvers a 4” is better to start off a newbie since snubbies recoil more and often have smaller harder to handle grips. He won’t know what he likes best until he tries a bunch of stuff.

Shotguns aren’t bad first firearms but the reality of most people in big cities is they won’t get as much practice as they would with a handgun. The firearm shouldn’t just be for self defence but for taking out to have fun shooting. In OC we’re pretty limited on places to shoot shotgun (only slugs, only certain days/times, etc). Much easier to grab a handgun and go shoot when you feel like it.
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Old 10-07-2019, 1:02 PM
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my wife has the same mentality as your friend.

The first round in her .357 is a shot shell and then 5 full house loads. Her theory is that the first round being a shot shell, she will have a little more leeway in hitting the target and will be able to take more time on the second round.

I am not sure its a good idea, i agree with it in theory that the first round will likely shock in the intruder and give her time to aim for the second round...But bad guys sure can pull a trigger awfully fast. Can't talk her out of it, its the way her father told her to prepare and be ready, but also not sure its a bad or good idea.
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Old 10-07-2019, 1:32 PM
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As far as I know, there are no circumstances, outside of LE weapons specifically and only used for LL, where a firearm would be considered anything other than deadly force.
That should be the foundation of your argument. Since firing a gun is always considered deadly force, legally speaking, a rubber should would be considered deadly force. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me with a legal citation or caselaw. If that's true, then the next building block on that foundation would be to figure out which type of round will be more effective in stopping a lethal threat as quickly as possible. That's where things like ASP videos and live fire under time pressure can come in.
A PCC is also another good consideration. Low recoil and blast, cheap ammo, etc. can allow for him to be a more effective shooter and can be more enjoyable to use.
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Old 10-07-2019, 1:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wordupmybrotha View Post
I wouldn't sweat it. Odds are, he's not going to face a home invader anyway. After he buys whatever he thinks he'll need, his perspective will change and he'll buy several more guns. Did any of us stop at one gun?
Well, that is indeed a very insightful response...!!! Definitely indeed...!!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaffo View Post
He's probably all talk, but as a friend, you should hang in there to provide guidance if he actually is ready to buy and train, at some point.
*nod*



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ora Serrata View Post
Why don’t you take him to a range to try some of your different handguns and/or rent some to see what he likes and dislikes.
I did - he got to try several shotguns and pistols in various calibers.

Quote:
He won’t know what he likes best until he tries a bunch of stuff.
Or until he begins on developing his fundamentals, and what he likes may change...



Quote:
Originally Posted by rugershooter View Post
As far as I know, there are no circumstances, outside of LE weapons specifically and only used for LL, where a firearm would be considered anything other than deadly force.
That should be the foundation of your argument. Since firing a gun is always considered deadly force, legally speaking, a rubber should would be considered deadly force.

...

If that's true, then the next building block on that foundation would be to figure out which type of round will be more effective in stopping a lethal threat as quickly as possible.
Hhhhmmm... This got me thinking.



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Old 10-07-2019, 2:00 PM
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I always scratch my head when people tell new owners to take classes, as in, "First take some lessons then we can talk". What if the legislators compelled a class requirement before gun ownership? We'd be up in arms. Why do we police ourselves in such a manner? Either teach him or lead him to be self taught. Many of us are self taught or taught informally by family or friends. Who is to say who or what training qualifies you to own a weapon?
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Old 10-07-2019, 2:12 PM
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Originally Posted by AregularGuy View Post
I always scratch my head when people tell new owners to take classes, as in, "First take some lessons then we can talk". What if the legislators compelled a class requirement before gun ownership? We'd be up in arms. Why do we police ourselves in such a manner? Either teach him or lead him to be self taught. Many of us are self taught or taught informally by family or friends. Who is to say who or what training qualifies you to own a weapon?
Because I am not qualified to teach him.




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Last edited by rodralig; 10-07-2019 at 2:15 PM..
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Old 10-07-2019, 3:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
Because I am not qualified to teach him.
Why not? You already know how to safely operate a weapon. You could easily teach him the basics and then he could attend more formal training at a later time.

I recently took a friend out to a local spot while on a camping/photography trip. One afternoon in camp, we did about 2 hours of basic handgun safety and operation with a revolver, and pistol. This included stance, grip, reload, and dry fire. He had never used a handgun.

Later that day, we went out to a spot and did live fire. He did very well for a first-time shooter. I was honestly impressed.

I found that it wasn't really tough to teach the fundamentals so that we could have a safe, productive, and fun time. In my experience, I find that most folks who are novices at whatever skill, learn better one-on-one in an environment that is not filled with distractions.

Now, I do not know if my friend will buy a handgun, but he at least has a good foundation to build upon if he chooses to. He's also a 2A supporter, and I encouraged him to join the NRA and CRPA. I am not sure if he will, but at least the seed has been planted.
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Old 10-07-2019, 5:08 PM
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Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
I did offer him several opportunities... He says he is NOT yet ready and/or doesn't want to, even for a 2-day at FS. Even a small match setting in Burro (the "No Name Pistol Club") wasn't to his liking... Obviously, I didn't want to impose on him, so I didn't push further... Well, maybe things will change if he does try out Artemis.
_
Fair enough. I know for me, joining FS, starting competition, and even posting regularly on CG were not insignificant mental hurdles to get over. I dunno how you feel about the guy, so not sure if you'd want to travel with him to FS for two days, hahaha....

Quote:
Originally Posted by AregularGuy View Post
I always scratch my head when people tell new owners to take classes, as in, "First take some lessons then we can talk". What if the legislators compelled a class requirement before gun ownership? We'd be up in arms. Why do we police ourselves in such a manner? Either teach him or lead him to be self taught. Many of us are self taught or taught informally by family or friends. Who is to say who or what training qualifies you to own a weapon?
I honestly feel lessons/classes prior to ownership (or as a first-time owner) isn't a bad idea. Gotta learn the basics and ingrain safety somehow, and being taught by a professional is a good way to get there. But being mandated by gun grabbers to get trained by a "certified" trainer first is the bad part. They'll make the cert meaninglessly easy so when accidents/crime happens they'll still go with guns = bad, or make the cert onerously difficult so no one can pass (a la ammo bg checks)
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Old 10-07-2019, 8:51 PM
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Your narrative suggests you think he is some backwoods dolt for considering a revolver and then YOU write about his preconceived notions? Jeeze.
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Old 10-07-2019, 9:35 PM
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About those thin walls...

Why hasn't anyone mentioned that putting the shots where they belong reduce the risk of collateral damage?


Rodralig "Because I am not qualified to teach him." Winner Winner Chicken Dinner

Last edited by hambam105; 10-07-2019 at 9:38 PM..
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Old 10-07-2019, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by sonofeugene View Post
Whoa!?!?! I'll definitely show him this...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustard View Post
Fair enough. I know for me, joining FS, starting competition, and even posting regularly on CG were not insignificant mental hurdles to get over. I dunno how you feel about the guy, so not sure if you'd want to travel with him to FS for two days, hahaha....
Seriously - I did offer him that I'd accompany him (and another colleague) for an "offsite" at Front Sight. I added a twist that instead of camping out in Joshua Tree NP, why not enjoy FS... Answer was a resounding "No."


It might be what was previously posted -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaffo View Post
He's probably all talk, but as a friend, you should hang in there to provide guidance if he actually is ready to buy and train, at some point.
Which... Would see... At the very least, am hoping that he tries out Artemis - which would pique his interest, and get the ball rolling... *crossing fingers*

I feel that right now - he is still on the edge on ownership...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Preston-CLB View Post
Why not? You already know how to safely operate a weapon. You could easily teach him the basics and then he could attend more formal training at a later time.
I can teach my Wife... I taught my kid last summer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwN6sHUykPU)... But, probably not best to teach another adult. I don't know - I feel that there is this dynamic between me and my colleague such I shouldn't be teaching him further in firearms. I just can't find the right words to explain this... (But it be said - I did run him through the 4 Safety Rules with a blue gun, some loading/unloading, racking the slide, etc. for his first range session).


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Last edited by rodralig; 10-07-2019 at 10:52 PM..
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Old 10-07-2019, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
Because I am not qualified to teach him.
Of course you are. The recent concept that one must be somehow "qualified" to do something is illogical. It's not brain surgery.

I'm 70 yrs old, I predate this recent concept and reject it as "hogwash". Was my father "qualified" to teach me to shoot [safely]? Was my grandfather "qualified" to teach my father the same skills and responsibilities? Was my great grand father "qualified" to teach my grandfather?

All the way back to the founding of this nation built on God n Guns?

If this person is a "friend", and they show interest in shooting. Don't think of it as "teaching".

Consider it "sharing" of acquired skills and knowledge. Just like Dad did.
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Old 10-08-2019, 9:05 AM
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What is this dynamic between you and your colleague such that you don't think you should teach him anymore? He weirding you out or something?

I usually shoot alone for "me time". Besides competition or specific training events i am going to or supporting, i don't shoot with people.
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Old 10-08-2019, 6:23 PM
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@ rodralig

"(yeah, he is from the country that calls the 1911 as "the 45" and the AR15, the "Armalite")"

Not to Hi jack your thread Bro but I can relate to the above. My Grandfather calls the 1911 "Porty Pive" and my uncles call the M16 Armalite and the M4 Baby Armalite.
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Old 10-08-2019, 6:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
Because I am not qualified to teach him.




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Fathers have been teaching their sons to shoot since our country was formed. And the bulk of them probably did not have any formal training or teaching experience.

I'm the first one to suggest to new shooters that they should seek additional training from qualified instructors. But assuming you're not an idiot, you are probably more than capable of teaching a new shooter the basics...

1) Gun Safety/4 Rules
2) Basic mechanics/workings of the pistol
3) Grip
4) Stance
5) Sight alignment
6) Trigger press
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Old 10-08-2019, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by L84CABO View Post
Fathers have been teaching their sons to shoot since our country was formed. And the bulk of them probably did not have any formal training or teaching experience.

I'm the first one to suggest to new shooters that they should seek additional training from qualified instructors. But assuming you're not an idiot, you are probably more than capable of teaching a new shooter the basics...

1) Gun Safety/4 Rules
2) Basic mechanics/workings of the pistol
3) Grip
4) Stance
5) Sight alignment
6) Trigger press
Agreed. Any man/woman/child what considers themselves a gun enthusiast should be able to teach these things.
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Old 10-08-2019, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by HellnBack View Post
@ rodralig

"(yeah, he is from the country that calls the 1911 as "the 45" and the AR15, the "Armalite")"

Not to Hi jack your thread Bro but I can relate to the above. My Grandfather calls the 1911 "Porty Pive" and my uncles call the M16 Armalite and the M4 Baby Armalite.
Yep!!!

At first he wanted to get a "Porty Pive," but then I gave him a quick run-down of the nuances of the 1911, ie., the 45ACP, light SA trigger and the thumb safety. He then got second thoughts...



Quote:
Originally Posted by L84CABO View Post
1) Gun Safety/4 Rules
2) Basic mechanics/workings of the pistol
3) Grip
4) Stance
5) Sight alignment
6) Trigger press
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustard View Post
Agreed. Any man/woman/child what considers themselves a gun enthusiast should be able to teach these things.
I already taught him these... For his first live fire session...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
... ... (But it be said - I did run him through the 4 Safety Rules with a blue gun, some loading/unloading, racking the slide, etc. for his first range session).
_


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustard View Post
What is this dynamic between you and your colleague such that you don't think you should teach him anymore? He weirding you out or something?
Like I have said, I just can't find the right words to describe it... But let me see - it's like he is half-hearted (not really serious, or maybe this is just in passing)... He "can't empty the cup," ie., I would like to explain in detail, but, I prefer not going into a lengthy discourse because of his preconceived notions. Or sometimes like the Kung Fu student, "... teach me your secrets Master," (short cuts?).

I already gave him the first step, and I truly believe that the next step would be to get qualified/professional instruction. ... which is NOT me.



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  #30  
Old 10-09-2019, 12:19 AM
DB> DB> is online now
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The reason you're feeling "unqualified" is because your friend keeps coming around with off the wall ideas and (probably?) thinks he's "educated". Lots of misinformation and FUD out there, with a fair mix of good bad and awful plus a smidge of downright dangerous "information" tossed in. Thanks Internet.

You're trying to help him out, but it's a lot more work sorting through what he's "researched"... You want to offer "good advice", but have to navigate what he's coming to you with, and it's frustrating sorting out a mix of good, bad, and incorrect "information" - plus it's tough "disagreeing" with an accountant <wink>.

Stick to the basics, and let him "research" - he will most likely make some "wrong" conclusions/decisions, but that's how most people learn! At some point he's got to put his "money where his mouth is", and buy something to call his own.

I've seen people (myself included, guilty as charged!) buying a cheap Phoenix .22 just to own "something". If it means they go out and shoot, it's better than "nothing", and hopefully will lead to "bigger and better". I suspect many purchases like this end up in a sock drawer, but I still have fun with the Phoenix and have a couple more that I got super cheap... great for kids or new shooters!

From there I thought a 7 shot semi-auto would be sufficient, then a friends relative had 4 armed guys bash through their door... 10 rounds with several extra mags started to sound pretty weak. Revolver with 5 shots? No thanks (an accountant should be able to sort out that that would require nearly 100% accurate shooting vs. 4 adversaries intent on harming the family, and that math is no bueno!). I have a relative that thinks a revolver would be easier than a semi-auto for his wife with weak hands and arthritis. She can manipulate a Sig P238 just fine, so that was my recommendation... though still a bit low on round count (7+1 ext mag). I still hear "keep an eye out for a good deal on a revolver", so I feel your "pain".

I've contemplated a shotgun, just because... there are a wide range of loads, so it should be possible to find something suitable for HD, but maneuvering a long gun in a typical house presents a challenge IMO, so... handguns in various calibers and a couple 22LR bullpups make sense to me, and are lots of fun at the range!

Keep in mind that a firearm is a "personal" decision, and it may just take a while for your friend to figure out what he wants to invest in, and whatever it is, it probably won't be the only "investment". The "on roster" 9mm I started with wasn't a good shooter (for me), but the off roster Ruger P95 I found used on CG for pretty cheap shoots one ragged hole for me... I've since collected an "eclectic" mix of guns that meet my criteria, and sold the ones that didn't.


You probably want to keep your advice simple = the criterion for a HD firearm is simple - must be rock solid reliable (goes "bang" every time), AND has to be comfortable to shoot reasonably accurately, for most or all family members. Let your friend sort out what that means for himself!
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Old 10-09-2019, 7:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DB> View Post
The reason you're feeling "unqualified" is because your friend keeps coming around with off the wall ideas and (probably?) thinks he's "educated". Lots of misinformation and FUD out there, with a fair mix of good bad and awful plus a smidge of downright dangerous "information" tossed in. Thanks Internet.

You're trying to help him out, but it's a lot more work sorting through what he's "researched"... You want to offer "good advice", but have to navigate what he's coming to you with, and it's frustrating sorting out a mix of good, bad, and incorrect "information" - plus it's tough "disagreeing" with an accountant <wink>.
Whoa!?! You basically put into words what I was trying to say. Thank you for just understanding my case and providing a non-judgemental response...


Quote:
Stick to the basics, and let him "research" - he will most likely make some "wrong" conclusions/decisions, but that's how most people learn! At some point he's got to put his "money where his mouth is", and buy something to call his own.
*nod* I have given him the basics in his first live fire range, and some materials to read and watch. The next step is basically up to him; but, I am concerned with ideas like "a revolver with the first four being dummy rounds," or "... I am worried about my kids accidentally picking it up, etc." Indeed, I spend more effort "discussing" on his notions rather than sticking to the basics. So, I guess, I sort of wanted it "delegated" to a professional instructor.


Quote:
Revolver with 5 shots? No thanks (an accountant should be able to sort out that that would require nearly 100% accurate shooting vs. 4 adversaries intent on harming the family, and that math is no bueno!).
Personally, I find that revolvers are mostly reliable, easy to shoot, and malfunctions significantly way less than a semi-auto. My question revolves on how much effort he and his wife are willing to put in working through its weakness - limited capacity and reloading.

That said - it will be another long discussion if I mention the fact that LEOs' percentage hit rate is no more than 30% and what those implications are for us civilians... I wanted to say that having a firearm is NOT a magic wand, the proper thought and effort should be afforded to it...


Quote:
You probably want to keep your advice simple = the criterion for a HD firearm is simple - must be rock solid reliable (goes "bang" every time), AND has to be comfortable to shoot reasonably accurately, for most or all family members. Let your friend sort out what that means for himself!
Yes, I did tell him that when he wanted to go for the "Porty Pive" (he did get to try my 1911) - "how is your wife willing to get comfortable in shooting this platform?" adding the suggestion that "you should get something that is simple is easy to use for BOTH himself and his wife." I offered either the Glocks or the XDs. As you said, once he understands his needs better, he can go ahead and start looking for what really works for him.

Again, thanks for the response!


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Old 10-09-2019, 12:36 PM
Awezze Awezze is offline
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I have a mossberg spx930 he can buy
And I also have an XDS 9mm
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Old 10-09-2019, 1:40 PM
sl0re10 sl0re10 is offline
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I have always made my own so I don't know. But is there something in between bird and buck shot available? Might be good for high density home defense?
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Old 10-09-2019, 2:35 PM
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I have always made my own so I don't know. But is there something in between bird and buck shot available? Might be good for high density home defense?
Slugs.
Lol.
Have him try some dragons breath?
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Old 10-09-2019, 2:35 PM
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For home defense I trust my Scorpion with freedom week mags and a tlr 1.
Also have the vortex viper mounted.
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Old 10-09-2019, 2:39 PM
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He should get this revolver in case he misses with the first 9 rounds.

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Old 10-09-2019, 3:00 PM
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Your buddy has some strange notions... If kids are young, the firearm MUST not be left laying around where it can "accidentally" be picked up.... I'm sure he doesn't leave sharp kitchen knives just sitting around, or let the little ones play with electrical plugs? These things are actual "common sense".

As soon as the kids are old enough to be interested, show them how to clean a firearm safely, get them up to speed on all the safety rules, and eventually take them to shoot.

Guns are tools, the OPERATOR is ultimately responsible for safety. My kids learned how to safely use basic hand tools while they were barely out of diapers, and now know how to work with lots of potentially dangerous things safely and confidently... Your friend is still learning, and admirably is concerned with safety - but he's forgetting that if someone is bashing his door down, the "safety" of the criminal is NOT the concern! The safety of the CRIMINAL should NEVER be the concern, but this is the society we live in.... where crooks have to be treated with "compassion" and "understanding".

If your semi-auto is not going bang reliably, it should be addressed. I've gotten fairly good at amateur "smithing", and diagnosing minor issues. Guns are mechanical devices, sometimes they need a little "tuning"! Of course having the occasional malfunction is inevitable, and the more ammo finicky guns are great for practicing "clearing"! I personally prefer to know that every firearm I have will cycle reliably, as long as I remember to take the manual safety off!
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Old 10-09-2019, 5:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
YLike I have said, I just can't find the right words to describe it... But let me see - it's like he is half-hearted (not really serious, or maybe this is just in passing)... He "can't empty the cup," ie., I would like to explain in detail, but, I prefer not going into a lengthy discourse because of his preconceived notions. Or sometimes like the Kung Fu student, "... teach me your secrets Master," (short cuts?).

I already gave him the first step, and I truly believe that the next step would be to get qualified/professional instruction. ... which is NOT me.
_
Gotcha. Yeah, you can't really force someone into the "continual self improvement" mentality. They gotta get there themselves. Unfortunately that usually happens when someone dies; no greater motivator than pain of death.

Diving into police body cam/surveillance footage is the next best way to open eyes. Doesn't even need to be shooting related; mass/mob attacks, edged or blunt weapons... make him ask himself "how could I defend myself in this situation?"
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