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Calguns Concealed Carry County Information Forum Information on how to get a LTC in yourCounty

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  #1  
Old 10-12-2018, 4:59 PM
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Exclamation California CCW Application Advice

Necessary information when applying, especially for a non-Green county (on CA CCW GC map)

OPENING

The Contra Costa County (CoCoCo) Sheriff’s Office (SO) is issuing CCWs for “Heightened Good Cause” (GC) -- yellow on the CA CCW GC map (see post #3 below). We haven't won CoCoCo since it is not green. A year ago CoCoCo had just under 300 active 2-yr Carry Concealed Weapons permits (CCWs). With suitable outreach and the information in this thread, you guys could make it 10x that -- 3,000 CCWers in just a few years. While you may still not qualify, the more people who get issued now means fewer applicants will be clogging up the application process if we win a Right to Bear Arms in federal court (by 2022 July 01). Plus, hopefully, as time goes by and Sheriff Livingston has few, if any, problems with CCWers, he may loosen up his GC standard to light green, issuing for risks due to recreation or hobbies (like 3-gun matches), or other risks that are avoidable (like walking alone along isolated beaches, hiking, backpacking), where a lot more people will qualify.

This post is to provide law-abiding CoCoCo gun owners with insight into the process to determine whether they would qualify under Sheriff Livingston’s current Good Cause standard. I’ve spent almost 50 hours over the past few weeks in making this. (N.B. I do not live in CoCoCo.) I read almost 400 posts going back to 2015 Jan 01 (#674), separating out posts re. applying using self defense/personal protection that depended upon winning the Peruta case, from those not depending upon it and using more substantial Good Cause. My guess is that, for whatever reason, Livingston loosened his GC standard slightly about 1 to 2 years ago.

I received input from several CGNers who’ve gotten CoCoCo CCWs. Most have been CGN members for several years and have made several thousand of posts, so I trust them. Only one had been a member for just under 2 years and has made under 100 posts but what they shared was consistent with the others. From all of them I learned what worked for them and over a dozen other people and what didn’t for three.

PRELIMINARY MATTER (Extremely important!!!)

(1) Concealed Carry in California is not about the federal Constitution's 2nd Amendment "Right to Keep & Bear Arms". The Ninth Circuit en banc in Peruta said there is no 2nd A Right to Concealed Carry (and SCOTUS declined to review that decision). What you’re applying for is a CCW license to exercise a privilege under California state law. That’s the perspective of the sheriffs and chiefs because that’s the current state of the law for California. Make it your perspective when applying, even though you may believe it is wrong. Bringing up the 2nd Amendment won’t get you anywhere and will just annoy them. Don't do it.

(2) Concealed Carry requires a license (CCW) under CA state law. When you hear “license” (or "permit") think “permission slip”. You are requesting a permission slip to exercise a privilege of legally concealed carrying a handgun. This sucks and sounds unconstitutional, but it’s the current state of the law. Thank God Trump is president so SCOTUS should fix this sorry state of affairs. But don’t expect the sheriff to fix it -- he’s in law enforcement. He's not into making or judging laws. Don't try to debate the point. Even if you win, you won't win.

(3) A CA CCW is a May Issue license, not Shall Issue. Getting a driver's license at the DMV is Shall Issue. There you can wear a pro marijuana T-shirt, hippie shorts and flip-flops and sneer down your nose ring at the DMV Lady and still get your license. Not so here. When you hear “May Issue”, think “Mother may I?” That should be your attitude because that’s the power the sheriff has over whether he grants you a CCW or not. Don’t like it? Don’t apply. Once again: this is not about getting to carry under our federal Constitution’s 2nd A, but under our state’s statutory law. So far, as far as the 9th Circuit is concerned, we don’t have a RBA to Concealed Carry under the 2nd A (Peruta) and they're still figuring out what to decide re. Open Carry (Young, Nichols and Flanagan cases). If you want to legally carry now, you have to play by the rules of the game as they are now. Otherwise, just wait until the federal courts sort things out.

If you only want to carry under the 2nd A, don't apply for a CA CCW permit and remain unarmed in public in CA for a year or more until the federal courts decide what public carry right is enshrined in the 2nd A. (Will it be OC? CC? both? loaded? w/o permit or can a permit be required?) This thread is for those who'd rather CC under our state's permitting scheme until then. I keep harping on this because we, on CGN, are always talking about the 2nd A and various court battles over it. It will be easy for you to slip back into that way of thinking during your permit application process and talking during the interview — DON’T!!!

THE SHERIFF’S POSSE

I address this first only because it is the source of much rumor, speculation and innuendo. In fact, it is the least important of my main points.

Some knew the Sheriff from the Posse, others didn’t and aren’t even members.

Joining the Posse requires endorsing signatures of two current Posse members. In a sense, they vouch for your character, giving the sheriff more confidence that you’re normal/stable/responsible/mature. If you don’t normally travel in those social circles, meeting and getting to know two members well enough to vouch for you can be a significant hurdle. Even if you do, you have to wait for an opening to join, and simply being a member is not sufficient. (Yes, more than one person joined just to get a CCW and still got denied.) If you regularly attend their events, you’ll eventually meet the sheriff and he’ll get to know you outside of the CCW app process. Then, when your application comes across the his desk, you’re not "a stranger off of the street" to him. Neither extortion or bribery are involved, but it does smack of elitism & cronyism. (What chance does a poor, single mother who lives in a crime ridden section of Richmond, doesn't have a car, takes public transportation to her two jobs, has been attacked more than once and raped have of getting two sponsors to join the Posse?) Posse membership is $100/year. List it on a separate page of general info about you, along with other charitable work.

Meeting the sheriff one-on-one at a Posse event might take a year or more. Unless you’re into hobnobbing, entering golf tournaments, formal dinners and you’d want to join regardless of getting a CCW, it may not be worth the time, money and effort involved since it isn’t a sure bet and isn’t necessary, even though it can help. https://www.cocoposse.com/

Bottom line: joining the Posse could help you, but is not necessary if your GMC (Good Moral Character), GC and Interview are solid by the Sheriff’s standard.

GOOD MORAL CHARACTER

Best is clean criminal background check: no misdemeanors or felonies. Ideally, you haven’t had any contact with LEOs for “drama,” even if there were no charges (domestic disturbance calls, auto accidents, etc), or they get dismissed/dropped.

What can you do to help the sheriff determine that you have GMC? Do you support law enforcement charities, do volunteer work (local animal shelter, homeless shelter, suicide help line, clinics, youth mentor programs, retirement homes, etc.)? Attach on a separate sheet of paper. Can you provide reference letters from those organization, or from other people the Sheriff would respect? None of this is required, but nothing is refused. Show that you are a “pillar of the community”, invested in the community, and of exemplary, not just good, moral character. All this will help the SO in their assessment of your character. The Sheriff says he evaluates "the whole person" in making his decision. You don't want your "whole person" to just say "Self Defense.”

Look at the causes that the Posse Charity funds to find the organizations the sheriff obviously approves of.
https://www.cocoposse.com/sheriff-s-charities#!

An alternative to the Posse could be the 100 Club where Livingston is on the board. http://100clubcontracostacounty.org/

GOOD CAUSE

Treat the application like a resume (no mistakes, no misspellings, etc) and treat your GC statement like a writing sample for a job application. It should be “cogent and concise” (every word should have a purpose, a reason for being there), and “well thought out and presented”. It is your one chance to talk directly to Sheriff Livingston re. why he should permit you to carry a gun, and it’s his only chance to size you up, beyond just what you’re trying to convey with it about Good Cause per se. List your GC justifications as bullet points from most important to least. Each bullet point should be only a short paragraph (a few sentences at most). Have a logical order of the phrases within each sentence and the sentences within each paragraph. Make your thoughts flow linearly from beginning to end. Check your grammar, punctuation and spelling. Work on it, refine it, over a week or two since it is your only chance to talk directly to the sheriff. Be prepared to discuss your GC justifications with the interviewer.

The SO will issue you a CCW to advance public safety, not for your own personal safety, so you have to prove (1) a Bad Guy is targeting you (e.g., a crazy ex you have a restraining order against), (2) there's something work related that makes you particularly vulnerable to attack (e.g., female RE agent showing houses while alone), or (3) work/occupation related Good Causes that make you a target: usually involve carrying lots of cash (e.g., rent collection, night deposits for businesses), work equipment (worth several thousands of dollars), guns (FFL, NRA Instructor/RSO), drugs (MD/DDS), or other valuables (Au/Ag coin dealer, jeweler, etc.). It should be something that the average CoCoCo voter would read and think, “Yeah, it makes sense they were allowed to carry a gun.” Remember the sheriff's “boss” are the voters of CoCoCo. They — and CA — aren’t what they used to be back in the 1980s when Ronald Reagan won CA twice, or even the mid 2000s when Richard Pombo represented the 11th Congressional District. Provide evidence to prove each reason you give for the existence of GC (e.g., restraining order against stalker ex; copies of regular large cash deposits of tenants' rents; relevant business or professional licenses, photographs of your equipment, recent photos of you using said equipment in remote locales, etc.). Attach all those documents in the order that you list your GC reasons. Bring a binder with the originals in clear plastic sheet holders in case they want to see/photocopy them themselves.

GC is not about your badass tactical training. But if you have completed a Hunter Safety course, or anything with "Safety" in the title, put that down. GC is not about your past military service (in whatever branch or capacity). Whatever you did with guns in the military (and it probably didn't involve a concealed handgun) is only good for showing you can be entrusted carrying a handgun. In CoCoCo, GC is not about your general fear about rising crime rates -- being "paranoid" is a non-starter. It is not about protecting you for hobbies or activities that are optional for you. You want a permit because transporting guns to 3-gun matches puts you at elevated risk? Stop shooting 3-gun matches instead. (Protection for hobbies or recreational activities that put you at risk would work if CoCoCo were light or dark green on the map. It isn't.)

If your GC primarily involves your work/occupation and that requires you to travel out of state, mention you have a non-resident CCW and carry when you are on the job out-of-state. N.B. If your GC does not involve work that requires traveling out of state, non resident CCWs, especially several, can make you look like a "gun nut" obsessed with carrying a gun.

Continued in next post

Last edited by Paladin; 03-31-2021 at 8:36 PM..
  #2  
Old 10-12-2018, 5:00 PM
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Default Part 2 of 3

THE INTERVIEW

Everyone who submits an application and passes the background check gets an interview by a law enforcement officer (LEO), so don’t think you’ve already been approved. Treat the interview like a job interview: Have a good night's sleep. Be freshly showered without heavy aftershave/perfume. Leave your "Be a Man Among Men" T-shirt, camouflage pants and combat boots at home. “Business casual" is appropriate for men (e.g., khakis w/penny loafers, and long sleeve Oxford if cool or warm weather, polo shirt if hot): clean & pressed. Have a good breakfast. Listen to music you enjoy on the way there. Unless otherwise specified, arrive 10 minutes early. Everyone says the staff and LEOs involved are friendly and helpful, so no need to go in there defensive, expecting to be pounced on or tricked or trapped. It’s non-confrontational: they’re just trying to understand you to discover if they should grant you the privilege of a CA CCW. But still use antiperspirant.

Some were asked about their GC, others weren’t. Best to be ready to explain how granting you a CCW would help public safety, and help counter the threat/risk you identified. If the interviewer is more interested in one GC reason vs another, follow their lead. Don't emphasize what you think is your better/best GC.

You may get posed hypothetical self defense scenarios. But again, this will be in a friendly conversational style, not as a pop quiz to trap you. IMO, emphasize "run, hide, fight" (in that order), and calling 911. You may get asked why you need a gun vs just pepper spray: "deadly force is justified to stop deadly threats." Officers don't reach for pepper spray or tasers when someone is shooting at them or stabbing them. Also mention you plan to continue carrying pepper spray for non-deadly threats. (It can't hurt to know the laws re. carrying, where you can carry and where you can't. How to handle a traffic stop. The importance of not "printing", "flashing" or brandishing. When is shooting justified. What to do if the BG flees.) You may get asked questions re. your handgun/s, ammo or method of carry.

Your CCW is to protect you & yours. If you choose to intervene to protect someone else, ask yourself, will they pay for your criminal and civil defense lawyers' fees? the cost of your medical/surgical/rehab/disability? support you, your spouse and kids? pay for your kids' college, your mortgage and your retirement? Would they go to jail or prison in your place? They are adults who most likely chose not to even apply. They may even be antis! They're adults and responsible for defending "them & theirs." If they chose to neglect armed defense, that's on them. They get to live, or die, with their decision. Respect it. "Just call 911 and be a good witness" for them -- that's most likely all they'd ever do for you! Look at the royal hell cops often go through, even after what is determined to be a "good shoot," and they've got a union and all sorts of insurance and other support you won't have.

The interviewing LEO and Sheriff want to feel safe allowing you to be armed in the same restaurant or store with his wife and children, day or night, when you’re alert or tired, happy or angry, well fed or hungry. They want to know that you’re mentally and emotionally stable. Think of this as an extension of the GMC check, as an informal, free psychological evaluation. They probably ask the office staff that help you what you were like, so be patient, pleasant and polite to all involved (as you do in all your normal interactions with all people, right?) They could even have someone look over and into your car while you’re being interviewed, or review the video of your car when you’re on their grounds. Do you have an old “Kill a Commie for Mommy” bumper sticker? A “From my cold, dead hands...” window decal? You may be stereotyped as a “gun nut.” Is your car dirty on the outside and/or messy on the inside? Bald tires? Body damage? Did you drive fast or park rudely because you can't manage your time? They can even pull your residence up on Google Maps’ street view: Is your house and yard clean and well maintained “like a good neighbor”, a “pillar of the community”? If you don’t manage yourself to maintain those possessions in good condition, how likely are you to manage yourself to well maintain your weapon? to maintain your temper, your emotional balance when someone cuts you off in traffic? Why should the sheriff entrust the irresponsible with the responsibility of a CCW permit with his signature on it? They don't expect perfection, but you can see how this all logically fits together. If you think none of that should matter, that even messy and irresponsible people should be able to protect their lives, I agree! But you’re still approaching getting a CCW from a Rights perspective, not a privilege perspective.

Do you have anger issues? (“God damn it! It’s my RIGHT as an American!” while pounding on the LEO interviewer's desk. Really happened.) Are you paranoid? (“ISIS is after me!”) Are you bitter about your divorce? (“I just know my ex-husband is following me.” You have no evidence against him, but he has evidence and restraining order against you.) Guess what? No CCW for you! That’s why one person suggested they’re looking to see if you conform to an “issuable profile.” You want to show them that you’re a decent, law-abiding, responsible, easy-going, emotionally stable, mature adult. Think Ward Cleaver, not Jack Bauer. You want to have a good attitude, be relaxed and friendly, but also reasonable, responsible, mature, conscientious, and self disciplined. While they're friendly, you’re not at a bar with your drinking buddy either, so no off color jokes, etc., even if the LEO might laugh at it off duty.

Put yourself in the sheriff’s shoes. You’d ask yourself, “Is this the kind of person that I am willing to stick my neck out for by issuing them a permit to carry a gun in public?” If you don’t meet this standard now, don't apply now. Get organized, get your life together, clean up your act and apply after that. Until then, just obey the 4-Stupids Rule (avoid Stupid people, avoid going to Stupid places, avoid doing Stupid things, and avoid being out at Stupid times), exercise situational awareness, and carry pepper spray. The sheriff doesn’t want to arm Drama Queens — that’s just asking for trouble (and political fallout). Remember: we should win a robust 2nd A "Right to Bear Arms" by SCOTUS by 2022 July 01, esp since Ginsburg got replaced.

MISCELLANEOUS

ALL of the CGNers or other CoCoCo CCWers they know (either personally, from IDPA or from SO class/qualification), were in their late 20s or older.

6 to 8 weeks after the interview you’ll get a decision.

No one mentioned having to get a psychological assessment or hearing of anyone having to. My guess is if it’s that close, they just “err on the safe side” and deny you.

No one had a residence check, so you probably don’t have to worry about them telling your anti-2nd Amendment neighbors you're applying for a CCW.

Some didn’t donate to the sheriff’s campaign or to the Posse. Some did to one or the other. One donated to Posse before and after getting issued and to his campaign after getting issued (out of thanks and to keep Livingston in office).

Download the application form instead of just printing it so you can fill in the fields on your computer before printing it, versus just printing it out and using a typewriter or filling it out by hand. That way it looks more polished and you can spend time crafting your statements to your liking.

Some live in affluent areas, others don’t.

Some listed, among other GC reasons, “self defense” while others felt even mentioning that was a negative.

Avoid going too far off on tangents (e.g., politics, current events) during the interview unless the interviewer leads you there. Don't talk yourself out of a CCW.

Participate in CoCoCo IDPA events (Richmond HotShots), to meet CoCoCo CCWers and get direct input from them re. the process. They might be willing to review your app and GC statement prior to submission.

ETA: Be sure to list any active/reserve military duty, LE/reserves, and shooting training, RSO, competitive shooting, etc, not for GC, but as part of your GMC, to show that you are trained, competent, trustworthy and safe for public carry. So just briefly list it, but do not focus on it. They'll ask about it during the interview if they want more details.

IN CLOSING

Remember: CoCoCo is 50% Dem and only 22% Repub — the sheriff is an elected official and the local media and most of his constituents (aka voters) are liberals. He can’t get too far ahead of his voters. If a CCWer did a questionable shoot or was involved in a road rage shooting and the media showed their GC was weak or just “self defense,” the MSM would try to blame Livingston, he might get replaced at the next election and CoCoCo could go Dark Red. While the sheriff may not be held legally liable for issuing someone a CCW, until we get a state "Shall Issue" CCW statute from Sacto and/or a federal Constitutional RBA from CA9 or SCOTUS the press and voters may hold him politically liable for it.

Yellow still means the average law-abiding resident cannot get a CCW, but if you have elevated GC (regularly make large cash deposits or transport valuable or dangerous items for your business, or you’ve had threats against you or are particularly vulnerable to attack), and everything else is clean, you should be able to get one. It only costs the amount of a LiveScan to find out and a denial for insufficient GC won’t hurt your chances in the future.

As I read what was sent to me, I saw a few GCs that indicated that CoCoCo is light green and others that it is still light red, but most made me think it was yellow. What that means is: (1) I am confident it is currently yellow. (2) But remember, even if your GC fits yellow, you may get denied. (3) If your GC fits light green (risks due to recreational activities or hobbies) and your background check, GMC and interview are all excellent, even you MAY get issued. Go for it if you can afford to waste the time, money (LiveScan fee) and effort involved. Remember the Sheriff can loosen or tighten his GC standard anytime he wants. You won't know if you can pass until you apply.

If you do apply, after you’ve been approved or denied, please post your experience so others can learn from it. (But don’t be so specific that you can be identified by what you post.) If you want to remain even more anonymous, PM me it and I’ll post it for you under my username just saying it was from another CGNer.

“Stay Calm and Carry On.”

Here's a link to CoCoCo SO's CCW webpage:
http://www.cocosheriff.org/howdoi/ccw_permit.htm

ETA:
Quote:
Originally Posted by vandal View Post
Another CoCo application approved today.

I continue in my belief that specific events that have occurred to/around you do not typically meet the good cause standard. Most the "this happened to me" I've seen floated as good cause:
  • Are just unfortunate isolated events. Try to string isolated events together and you look paranoid.
  • Are being used to suggest a personal targeting that cannot really be established
  • Do not indicate an unavoidable ongoing elevated threat
  • Are often not even lethal force situations ("My car has been broken into three times!")
  • Have more to do with fear than any specific threat

A common application rejection is "The mere fear of future victimization is not sufficient cause for issuance of a CCW."

Be smart, don't put yourself in any of those buckets.

Last edited by Paladin; 11-17-2020 at 10:26 PM..
  #3  
Old 10-12-2018, 5:37 PM
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Default Part 3 of 3

P.S. I recommend watching this San Diego County Gun Owners video on applying for a CCW with Sheriff Gore. SD Co is currently light green on the map, so there will be differences, but it is still worth viewing.



Below is the CA CCW GC map. This image gets updated automatically with every revision, so the colors it has when you look at it may not be the colors it had when I posted this.



(1) Most of this information probably applies to most of the remaining non-green counties, especially the light red ones (Yolo and San Mateo), so be sure to share it with others in those counties who want CCWs. ETA: I'd also recommend this advice for people living in Napa and SLO counties: while they are both currently "light green" on the map, they very well may actually be "yellow."

If you/they live in Sonoma Co., just wait to apply until after Essick takes office as sheriff. From what he's said in public to the Sonoma Co Dem and GOP parties, I expect him to take Sonoma to light green on the map. I've posted those videos and/or links to them in the main Sonoma Co CCW Info thread.

(2) I went to the IDPA website and there's one club in CoCoCo:

Richmond Hotshots
http://www.richmondhotshots.com/

and two that are relatively nearby. Depending upon where you live they could be closer than Richmond.

Twin Sisters Action Pistol Shooting (Fairfield)
http://www.twinsistersactionpistol.com/

and

Sacramento Defensive Pistol Shooters
https://sdps-idpa.org/

(3) I was going over the favorable and unfavorable factors that LAPD uses, and would not be surprised if CoCoCo SO uses something similar.

Quote:
Favorable Factors.
Among facts upon which the Department will, in the exercise of its
discretion, look favorably in considering applications are whether: a) the applicant has a
demonstrated record of responsible handling of firearms; b) the applicant has a commitment to
safe and responsible handling of firearms as shown by having voluntarily taken firearms training;
c) the applicant has a record of good citizenship in general as evidenced, for instance, by service
to the community through such activities as creditable service in the armed forces, including the
National Guard and state militia or in the police reserves, or of active participation in charitable
or public service organizations or activities or in political affairs; d) the applicant is trustworthy
and responsible as evidenced, for instance, by employment history, positions held in civic,
political, religious or secular achievements or record of personal accomplishment in other areas
of endeavor; e) that the applicant suffers under a disability or physical handicap, including age or
obesity, which hinders the applicant's ability to retreat from an attacker.

Unfavorable Factors. Factors which will bear negatively on issuance (unless they appear
to be in the remote past) are: a) the applicant has a long-term history of mental or emotional
instability, alcoholism, drug use or addiction to controlled substances; b) the applicant has a
history of fault in serious accidents with firearms, automobiles or other dangerous
instrumentalities; c) the applicant has had a permit to own or carry a concealed weapon denied,
suspended or revoked for good cause by any issuing authority; d) the applicant has had a driver's
license denied, suspended or revoked for good cause by any issuing authority; e) the applicant
has a long-term record of irresponsible and dangerous behavior with automobiles as indicated by
numerous convictions of serious driving offenses; f) the applicant has a long-term history of
conduct from which it appears that he or she is not now of good moral character, trustworthy or
responsible. While none of the foregoing disqualify an applicant per se, a license will be denied
if it appears, in the discretion of the Department, that the applicant does not now have good
character or that issuance of a license to him/her is not consistent with public safety.
From: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1423638

(4) Another CGNer who's applied contacted me. He said that the initial process is currently FAST: mailed in app, got LiveScan paperwork several workdays later, got LiveScanned next day, got the call to set up an interview appointment few workdays later and interview was about a week after that. Total time: 2.5 weeks! Unfortunately, he got his denial letter about 1.5 weeks after that.

(5) FWIW, here's what Wikipedia currently has under "Good Moral Character" (bolding added):

Quote:
Assessments of good moral character

Good moral character can be proven through the presence of several positive moral findings, having no-to-minimal negative moral findings, and by the absence of legal violations. Positive evidence of good moral character can include letters of reccomendation, pursuing education, working seven days a week, owning one’s home, attending church every Sunday, marrying one’s high-school sweetheart, having strong ties to one’s nuclear family, coaching little league teams, teaching English above all other languages in one’s home, paying taxes, paying bills on time, and volunteering in the community.[9] If one volunteers to help others, they may be considered a better person if something bad, uncontrollable, and unexpected happens to them while they are working. For example, a man who was stung by a bee while mowing the lawn for an elderly neighbor would often be rated as having a better moral character than a similar man who was not stung by a bee.[10]

Negative findings of moral character can include having children without being married, not paying taxes, receiving government support, and advocating for racism.[11] The presence of any negative finding can outweigh several positive findings.
More at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_moral_character

(6) Sonoma Co SO: https://www.sonomasheriff.org/ccw/

Quote:
MORAL CHARACTER / GOOD JUDGEMENT

Applicants must demonstrate that they have a history of using sound judgment, and that their everyday lives are unsullied by traits that may impair their ability to safely handle a firearm, under stress, in a public setting. A determination as to one's moral character and judgment is discretionary, and based on the totality of the applicants qualifications presented on a case by case basis. Factors or traits which will bear negatively on issuance are:

(a) A long-term history of mental or emotional instability, alcoholism, drug use or addiction to controlled substances.

(b) A history of fault in serious accidents with firearms, automobiles or other dangerous instruments / equipment.

(c) A history of citations, arrests, convictions, civil law suits, employment discharges, license denials, license revocations or other actions indicating a possible propensity for violence, moral turpitude, dishonesty, or carelessness with weapons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliguy93 View Post
“How do we know you won’t create a substantial risk to the public or to law enforcement officials if allowed to carry a concealed firearm?”

They would also look at your traffic record for the last 5 years and see if you are a responsible driver. In my younger days when I first applied I was told “if we can’t trust you to obey traffic laws, how can we trust that you will make the right decision when carrying a firearm?”
(7) If the interviewing LEO asks you whether you plan to carry all the time or not, just say "if my permit is approved for carrying all the time, I'll carry all the time, including at home (home invasion robberies happen). If it is restricted to on-the-job only (if employment based GC), I'll carry only on-the-job."

Last edited by Paladin; 06-26-2020 at 8:08 PM..
  #4  
Old 10-12-2018, 6:15 PM
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Thank for for all your hard work on this! What coco IDPA matches and locations do you recommend? I generally make the (short) drive to Richmond but wouldn’t mind joining here for some extra networking and meeting my neighbors.


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  #5  
Old 10-12-2018, 6:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerzone002 View Post
Thank for for all your hard work on this! What coco IDPA matches and locations do you recommend? I generally make the (short) drive to Richmond but wouldn’t mind joining here for some extra networking and meeting my neighbors.
I don't know. I was told this from one of my sources. They can post a reply or can PM me their reply and I'll post it for them anonymously.

I don't live in CoCoCo, just doing this to help break the anti stronghold known as the SFBA.

Just go to the IDPA website and see what clubs they have in CoCoCo or ask in the main CoCo CCW Info thread.
  #6  
Old 10-12-2018, 7:08 PM
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Thank you for all of the time, effort and hard work you put into this Paladin! I know all us CoCo County residents truly appreciate it! Very well written and thought out.

I know it will take a bit for me to read, re-read for everything to sink in. It IS encouraging to see that CoCoCo is yellow vs. Red/Dark Red.

Again, thank you!!!
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Old 10-12-2018, 7:12 PM
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Very interesting, articulate and well written. Thank you.
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Old 10-12-2018, 8:16 PM
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Strong Work.
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Old 10-12-2018, 9:01 PM
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Thanks Paladin for taking the time and effort to put together this great information. I think it would be fantastic if CoCo County residents made a concerted effort to utilize this information and obtain more CCW permits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Everyone who submits an application and passes the background check gets an interview.

You may get posed hypothetical self defense scenarios. But again, this will be a friendly conversational style, not as a pop quiz to trap you.

The interviewing LEO and Sheriff want to feel safe allowing you to be armed in the same room with his wife and children, day or night, when you’re tired, happy or angry.
As a firearms instructor who teaches a multi-state CCW class, I devote part of the class to understanding the legal requirements for self-defense, how to articulate imminent threat, the importance of de-escalation and interacting with police. If there is enough interest I would be happy to go over this material with prospective CoCo County applicants to help them pass the interview portion.

All we would need is enough interested people, a suitable venue (Richmond Rod & Gun Club perhaps?) and a nominal donation to cover any classroom rental. My own time would be pro bono. PM me if you are interested. If there's enough interest I'll look into setting something up.
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Old 10-12-2018, 9:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Kraft View Post
Thanks Paladin for taking the time and effort to put together this great information. I think it would be fantastic if CoCo County residents made a concerted effort to utilize this information and obtain more CCW permits.







As a firearms instructor who teaches a multi-state CCW class, I devote part of the class to understanding the legal requirements for self-defense, how to articulate imminent threat, the importance of de-escalation and interacting with police. If there is enough interest I would be happy to go over this material with prospective CoCo County applicants to help them pass the interview portion.



All we would need is enough interested people, a suitable venue (Richmond Rod & Gun Club perhaps?) and a nominal donation to cover any classroom rental. My own time would be pro bono. PM me if you are interested. If there's enough interest I'll look into setting something up.


Thank you for the offer! I would be very interested in this!!!

Honestly would like to get a multistate CCW but it would have zero practicality for me.
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Old 10-20-2018, 2:12 PM
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Paladin,

Well done on all your hard work. That was tremendous. Much appreciated (and I don't live in CoCo).
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Old 10-20-2018, 6:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebronze View Post
Paladin,

Well done on all your hard work. That was tremendous. Much appreciated (and I don't live in CoCo).
Thanks.

I forgot a major point: to say "Thank you to all those who confided in me re. their application process. I literally could not have done it without you." Some of them will recognize some of their own writing in what I posted above. It's because I literally could not say it any better.

FWIW, reviewing it could also help those in "light green" counties make their applications, GC statements and interviews stronger, improving their odds of being issued (aka reducing their odds of not being issued).

FYI, I keep editing it, refining it, improving it, so if you are about to apply, best to read through it one more time just before submitting your application and again before the interview.
Check the last edit time & date on the bottom left of the first 3 posts to see when they were last revised.

Last edited by Paladin; 10-26-2018 at 5:13 PM..
  #13  
Old 10-21-2018, 6:47 AM
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Great write up Paladin. I was one of the people that got denied before and if I still lived in contra Costa would apply again based on this.
I moved to El Dorado a few years ago and was issued immediately.


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  #14  
Old 10-24-2018, 8:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
I don't know. I was told this from one of my sources. They can post a reply or can PM me their reply and I'll post it for them anonymously.

I don't live in CoCoCo, just doing this to help break the anti stronghold known as the SFBA.

Just go to the IDPA website and see what clubs they have in CoCoCo or ask in the main CoCo CCW Info thread.
I went to the IDPA website and there's one club in CoCoCo:

Richmond Hotshots
http://www.richmondhotshots.com/

and two that are relatively nearby, depending upon where you live in CoCoCo:

Twin Sisters Action Pistol Shooting (Fairfield)
http://www.twinsistersactionpistol.com/

and

Sacramento Defensive Pistol Shooters
https://sdps-idpa.org/

I emailed all of them to let them know about this thread so they can pass it along to their members and others who may be interested.

I've added the above to the 3rd post in this thread.

Last edited by Paladin; 10-26-2018 at 5:14 PM..
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Old 10-25-2018, 5:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
I went to the IDPA website and there's one club in CoCoCo:

Richmond Hotshots
http://www.richmondhotshots.com/

and two that are relatively nearby:

Twin Sisters Action Pistol Shooting (Fairfield)
http://www.twinsistersactionpistol.com/

and

Sacramento Defensive Pistol Shooters
https://sdps-idpa.org/

I emailed all of them to let them know about this thread so they can pass it along to their members and others who may be interested.

I've added the above to the 3rd post in this thread.


Thanks for that! I shoot at Richmond but had no idea that was CoCoCo, whoops!


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Old 10-27-2018, 7:09 PM
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Thank you for posting this. I guess I just need to ask around at the next Richmond match to see who has a ccw in coco so I can get the ball rolling..
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Old 10-28-2018, 6:38 AM
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From 2017 Feb 21:

Quote:
According to Nate McCormack, Lieutenant with the Sheriffs Office, he cited safety and privacy concerns as to why addresses were not released.

“We try and balance the needs of the public and the people who want or need access to the information to ensure everyone’s safety,” said McCormack.

McCormack says that currently, the county has 317 CCW permits issued with 290 of them being to regular citizens. He also added that 17% of all applicants are approved.
From: http://eastcountytoday.net/sheriffs-...tions-to-abc7/

Last edited by Paladin; 10-28-2018 at 6:41 AM..
  #18  
Old 11-14-2018, 9:17 PM
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Great write up and a good read for anyone thinking about CCW.
-g
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Old 11-14-2018, 9:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Man WC View Post
Great write up and a good read for anyone thinking about CCW.
-g


Have you taken the plunge G-Man? Or are you considering it?

I’m still mulling it over to see if I have enough of a heightened good cause. I’ve written a rough draft and trying to see if other reasons or justifications apply.

The one person that I know that recently got his CCW did have heightened GC. This was back in August. An acquaintance of his also similarly had heightened GC with a similar set of circumstances.
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Old 11-18-2018, 7:16 AM
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I'm cross posting this post by San Diego Co Gun Owners for 2 reasons: (1) to reemphasize that any GC reasons w/o proof (evidence that reason is true/exist) are ignored. (2) To remind you guys that if Sheriff Gore could be convinced to liberalize issuance in SD Co from dark red to light green, Sheriff Livingston could be convinced to liberalize issuance in CoCoCo too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD County Gun Owners PAC View Post
Sheriff Gore is issuing. About 600 in the first 12 months since the change in policy September of 2017. And they are now issuing around 40 CCWs per week.

We have put together a video, a Good Cause Worksheet, and list of good cause statements to help you. We are also teaching pre CCW classes all over the county. The success rate it well over 95%.

The hardest thing for people to wrap their head around is that the emphasis is not on your good cause. The emphasis is on proof.

For example: a good cause that is based on hiking and camping would require proof that you hike and camp. How do you prove that? We worked with the sheriff to come up with acceptable ways to prove that you hike and camp. Log books, calendars, pictures, receipts from campgrounds are all examples.


If you can pass a background check, pass the class, pay the fee, and apply...you are about 15 sentences away from a CCW in San Diego.

It takes a minimal amount of effort to review our material.

We are also working on getting the sheriff to use software designed to streamline the process. I hope to get that done early in 2019. They have hired more staff and most people are getting their approval letter in fewer than 90 days from the first appointment.

We continue to be happy with what we have accomplished. Everyone was skeptical about the idea of getting Gore to change. But...we did it.

Here is the info on CCWs: www.sandiegocountygunowners.com/ccw

And here is how to join SDCGO as a member: www.SDCGO.org/join

Last edited by Paladin; 11-18-2018 at 7:43 AM..
  #21  
Old 11-18-2018, 9:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
I'm cross posting this post by San Diego Co Gun Owners for 2 reasons: (1) to reemphasize that any GC reasons w/o proof (evidence that reason is true/exist) are ignored. (2) To remind you guys that if Sheriff Gore could be convinced to liberalize issuance in SD Co from dark red to light green, Sheriff Livingston could be convinced to liberalize issuance in CoCoCo too.
Thank you Paladin for posting this! Timing is excellent as I'm getting ready to complete my CCW application especially after what happened last night.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1490510
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Old 11-24-2018, 5:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XDJYo View Post
Thank you Paladin for posting this! Timing is excellent as I'm getting ready to complete my CCW application especially after what happened last night.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1490510
IMO, you are most vulnerable when you are walking from your car to your front door (or vice versa), esp with arms full of bags or children, or when in your car stopped in front of your garage waiting for it to open and then once inside waiting for it to close. IOW, when you can easily be ambushed by a BG "lying in wait".

Last edited by Paladin; 11-24-2018 at 4:47 PM..
  #23  
Old 11-24-2018, 8:37 AM
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Thank you for the effort...

One thing I read was you stated in "in closing" a denial will not hurt future application's,
but in the lapd quote it reads a denial is bad.

One other thing, I live in napa edit... County propper..., it is a 2-3 hr drive to shoot for free, otherwise it is pay to play.
Last time I looked up twin sisters the county pulled their permit due to noise complaints???
I do not know if this has changed or not.

Thanx again, cb
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Last edited by clb; 11-25-2018 at 8:04 AM..
  #24  
Old 11-24-2018, 8:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
IMO, you are most vulnerable when you are walking from your car to your front door (or vice versa), esp when arms of bags or children, or when being stopped in front of your garage waiting for it to open and then once inside waiting for it to close. IOW, when you can easily be ambushed by a BG "lying in wait".


Thank you!!! Totally agree.


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Old 11-24-2018, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clb View Post
Thank you for the effort...

One thing I read was you stated in "in closing" a denial will not hurt future application's,
but in the lapd quote it reads a denial is bad.
A denial for cause is bad. A denial 'because this is LA and we hate you' is neutral.
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  #26  
Old 11-24-2018, 4:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clb View Post
One thing I read was you stated in "in closing" a denial will not hurt future application's,
but in the lapd quote it reads a denial is bad.
LAPD says, "c) the applicant has had a permit to own or carry a concealed weapon denied, suspended or revoked for good cause by any issuing authority."

If you got a CCW and then it got suspended or revoked "for good cause" (i.e., you were a bad boy), that's definitely going to be an issue.

If you were denied a CCW "for good cause", in context that's referring to you doing something like lying on your application (e.g., re. residence, prior convictions, etc). That's also going to be an issue.

If you were denied for lack of Good Moral Character (e.g., you had a DUI from 10 years before the app), that may be an issue. If that denial was another 10 years ago, and you've had not alcohol/drug problems since then, they may (or may not), decide you've cleaned your act up.

If you were denied for insufficient Good Cause (i.e., you couldn't justify getting a CCW or couldn't prove your GC), that's unlikely to be an issue because every IA gets to set it's own standard and what matters now is the Good Cause you can prove now and how that compares to this IA's GC standard now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clb View Post
One other thing, I live in napa, it is a 2-3 hr drive to shoot for free, otherwise it is pay to play.
Last time I looked up twin sisters the county pulled their permit due to noise complaints???
I do not know if this has changed or not.
If you live in the City of Napa, you have to apply with the Napa PD and they're restrictive. They've done what we used to call a "reverse G" and used to be illegal, but which is now legal -- entered into an agreement (MOU -- Memorandum of Understanding) with the sheriff that he won't issue CCWs to Napa City residents. I'd guess they're light red, but that's only a guess.

If you live in Napa County, but not in the City of Napa, the sheriff does issue, but IMO right between light green and yellow. So, if you want to suck it up re. range time/training and go for a CCW, I'd follow as much of this CoCoCo county advice just to be on the safe side.

You might want to ask about where to shoot for free at:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/f...play.php?f=305

Last edited by Paladin; 01-26-2020 at 5:21 PM..
  #27  
Old 11-25-2018, 2:08 AM
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Paladin, that was a great read. You hit the ball out of the park. I have dealt with 3 Sheriff's and many civilian clerks and LEO in 25 years of dealing with SDSO. You said it all. Anyone who wants a CCW should read your thorough yet succinct advice. You didn't waste a word. All that advice is important in one situation or another. I had to laugh about the "posse stuff". In San Diego Sheriff's Honorary Deputies Association of circa 2008 there were no denials of any permits. The picture below shows Sheriff Kolander giving me a cop wallet with a flat badge at a welcoming new members shindag. It took 10 months of diplomacy and street fighting to get that badge and CCW. Keep up the great service to the California public.
Mark Cleary
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Last edited by marcusrn; 11-25-2018 at 2:17 AM.. Reason: error
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Old 11-25-2018, 8:05 AM
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Thank you gentleman for the clarification.
Much appreciated.
Cb
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  #29  
Old 12-07-2018, 10:23 PM
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This is FANTASTIC work Paladin. I’m not sure I have sufficient GC so for now I won’t apply, but as soon as I hear from you or others that CoCoCo is light green, I’ll be at the front of the line, with a printed version of this post in my pocket.

-S
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Last edited by scbauer; 12-08-2018 at 5:25 AM..
  #30  
Old 01-10-2019, 12:35 PM
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Impressive Mr. Paladin
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Old 12-04-2019, 7:51 PM
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The below GC categories are listed from, roughly, weakest to strongest. Note well there's a range within each category. For example, someone who's work equipment is worth $10,000 (might pass Light Red) is assumed to be more at risk than someone who's equipment is worth only $1,000 (might pass Yellow). Plus, remember that equipment that cost you $1,000 isn't equivalent to someone making $500 cash deposits. Your equipment is not only used (let's say it would fetch $600), but also it's stolen (might then drop that to $300). Similarly, someone who walks with a slight limp (might pass Dark Green), is not as vulnerable as someone who requires a cane (might pass Light Green) and they're not as vulnerable as someone who requires a wheelchair (might pass Yellow). Evaluation of GC isn't black and white, but often shades of gray, a judgment call. That's one of the reasons why we say the map may be off by 1 color in either direction. So, if you have a GC that is listed under Light Green below it might pass in a Yellow county. Apply if you really want a CCW and can afford to waste the time, money and effort in applying since you're most likely to be denied. (Going through the process might be good practice.) Remember: we should win a robust 2nd A RBA from SCOTUS by 2022 July 01.

All the below Good Causes will likely pass in a Dark Green county. This is Virtual Shall Issue because virtually all of us can get issued here.

(1) "Self Defense"/"Personal Protection"

(2) Regularly gets cash at ATMs or fills up at gas stations late at night in rough parts of town and has proof of that (e.g., receipts). Avid shooter who often goes to a range before or after work, as seen by club membership card, receipts and photos. Often the interviewing LEO asks you for scenarios of threats/attacks that might happen in your daily life and ask how you'd respond.

(3) You have a medical condition (e.g., heart disease, elderly) that makes running, hiding or fighting unrealistic. Provide note from MD and/or PT on letterhead explaining condition, medical records, etc.

All the below will likely pass in a Light Green county. Most of us can get issued here.

(4) Live and/or work in a dangerous area as seen by crime stats (provide crimemapping maps, news stories, gov't stats)

(5) There's something obvious about applicant that makes them particularly vulnerable to attack and thus an attractive target (e.g., an obvious physical handicap or medical issue that makes fleeing, hiding, or fighting impractical. Provide note from MD and/or PT on letterhead explaining condition, medical records, etc.)

(6) Recreational activities in remote locales with little or no cellphone coverage and/or long LE response times (e.g., amateur wilderness photography, target shooting, hunting, fishing, hiking, mountain biking, motorcycling, backcountry skiing, etc.). (Use trail maps, calendars, log books, receipts from campgrounds and photos as proof.)

(7) Recreational activities that put you at a heightened risk due to the property's value or equipment's inherent danger (e.g., Craig's List seller/buyer, avid shooter who transports several semi auto pistols, rifles and/or shotguns and hundreds of rounds to various ranges or C&R collector). (For proof use photos of activities, value of equipment/property, sales receipts, copy of club membership card, photos of trophies won, training certificates, C&R license.)

All the below will likely pass in a Yellow county Some of us can get issued here.

(8) Lives in a remote area with little or no cellphone coverage and/or long LE response times. (Provide proof of residence location, photos of your acreage, of you farming/ranching, etc) N.B. While this may work with SLO Co SO, it will not with Alameda Co SO; not sure re. Napa and Yolo Co SOs.

(9) Employees required to work in remote locales at all hours with little or no cellphone coverage and/or long LE response times (e.g., wilderness photographer, surveyors, construction workers). Get letter from employer supporting the application and willingness to accept liability, copies of relevant certificates/licenses, provide photos of you doing job, value of equipment. N.B. Your CCW may be restricted to on-the-job only.

(10) Employees at heightened risk due visiting isolated locations required by their employment (e.g., female RE agents showing houses to strangers at all hours while alone). Get letter from employer supporting the application and willingness to accept liability, copies of relevant certificates/licenses, provide photos of you doing job, etc. N.B. Your CCW may be restricted to on-the-job only.

(11) Employees (e.g., business managers, property managers) who are at heightened risk due to valuables associated with their employment (e.g., Au/Ag, jewelry, pharmaceuticals, firearms, ammo or gunpowder ("inherently dangerous property"), cash sales or rental deposits). Get letter from employer supporting the application and willingness to accept liability, copies of relevant certificates/licenses, provide photos of you doing job, etc N.B. Your CCW may be restricted to on-the-job only.

(12) The nature of the business or occupation of the applicant is such that it is subject to personal risk and / or criminal attack, greater than the general population (e.g., private investigators, some lawyers, process servers, plain clothes security guards, bodyguards, fugitive recovery agents/"bounty hunters," taxi drivers). Get letter from employer supporting the application and willingness to accept liability, copies of relevant certificates/licenses, photos of you on the job, etc. N.B. Your CCW may be restricted to on-the-job only.

All the below will likely pass in a Light Red county. Few of us can get issued here.

(13) Business owners required to work at all hours in remote locales with little or no cellphone coverage and/or long LE response times (e.g., professional farmer or rancher, wilderness photographer, surveyor, contractor). (copies of relevant certificates/licenses, provide photos of you doing job at remote locations, value of equipment, etc) N.B. Your CCW may be restricted to on-the-job only.

(14) Business owners who are at heightened risk due to valuables associated with their profession or business activities (e.g., Au/Ag dealers, jewelry dealers, MD/pharmacists/pharma sales rep, business owner or landlord making cash sales or rental deposits, maybe NRA Instructor, RSO and FFL dealers due to regularly transporting "inherently dangerous property"). (written description of your business activities, copies of relevant certificates/licenses, provide photos of you doing job, etc) N.B. Your CCW may be restricted to on-the-job only.

The below Good Cause will likely pass in a Dark Red county. This is Virtual No Issue because virtually none of us can get issued here. There are 3 levels in Dark Red (from most restrictive to least): actual No Issue. SF and Santa Clara, for awhile, were once this. Next, Corrupt Issue. LASD under Sheriff Jim McDonnell was like this per the CSA's report: 25 out of 25 audited files did not follow their own CCW policy re. residency and 24 out of 25 did not follow their own policy on GC. (See Calif State Auditor's report re. LA: 1 page Fact Sheet: http://www.auditor.ca.gov/pdfs/factsheets/2017-101.pdf Audit Summary: http://www.auditor.ca.gov/reports/2017-101/summary.html Full, 88 page report: http://www.auditor.ca.gov/pdfs/reports/2017-101.pdf One year later, LASD under Sheriff AV has still not complied with the CSA's recommendations. See ~2/3rds down at: https://www.auditor.ca.gov/reports/s...019-041/table3) Sheriff Laurie Smith of Santa Clara County also appears to have practiced corrupt issuance: https://www.sanjoseinside.com/news/e...-clara-county/ Last is Virtual No Issue: this is where they issue for category #15 below and only for that.

(15) They are at heightened risk due to a documented "clear & present danger to life, or great bodily harm" against them or an immediate family member (e.g., crazy ex- or disgruntled fired employee, stalker, anonymous nut case/evildoer, etc.). These GC policies are usually based upon CA State AG John Van de Kamp's early 1980s Opinion letter and require a number of additional conditions be present. (Proof includes police reports (if BG unknown), permanent restraining order (if BG known), evidence of current threats (e.g., audio recordings, video/pictures, written threats, etc).) (SF, LA and Alameda have this as their only acceptable GC, but I've heard Alameda & LA do not approve or deny not in conformity to their published policy.

Last edited by Paladin; 09-12-2020 at 10:44 AM.. Reason: lowered cash amounts used in example
  #32  
Old 12-29-2019, 5:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Note well: There's a range within each category.

(4) You have a medical condition (e.g., heart disease, elderly) that makes running, hiding or fighting unrealistic.
Thanks for that.

My own medical condition is pretty much exactly as described. Never really considered it as good cause.
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  #33  
Old 11-21-2020, 3:33 PM
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Exclamation This is IMPORTANT!!!

Good Cause has two parts: (1) the statement and (2) the evidence/proof.

Good Moral Character also has two parts: (1) the criminal background check and (2) your social/personal/psychological character.

All four parts are vitally important. You must make all four as solid as you can.

As far as social/personal/psychological character, they are looking for an emotionally stable individual who deescalates interpersonal conflicts. They want to make sure you’re really a Good Guy. (My CCW Application Advice thread pinned at the top of this forum covers more of this.) Consider supplying personal references even if they don’t require them. Friends are better than family members. Neighbors are better than friends since they are less biased and see how you live and behave in good times and bad.

Last edited by Paladin; 11-21-2020 at 3:35 PM..
  #34  
Old 02-27-2021, 1:31 PM
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This is an excellent post re GMC.

Quote:
... They are looking for mature, stable, non-confortational people....

My only other tip: the phone calls come from PRIVATE NUMBER, so if you're in the process and you get a call from a private number, ANSWER IT! It's good news!

Anyone with yellow-level GC should apply now. It might not be successful, but it's definitely worth trying. For people in that situation, make your application great. Have the right demeanor when interacting with them. Honest, direct, respectful, not chatty or informal.

Final tip: They don't ask for references, but give them anyway, and your neighbors should be your best reference. Your best friend from high school or your favorite uncle or your rabbi are weak references.

Final final tip: do some long-term planning. Cultivate a good relationship with your neighbors. Take actions such as being a member of a range and going regularly, taking extra training, being in CERT, taking other kinds of safety training, volunteering (especially with a gov't-affiliated organization), whatever, and provide documents of all this, to develop strong evidence of good character. It's about documentation and depth.

I am not a VIP and have never contributed to anyone and have no connections or important friends. The process is fair.
These are excellent posts by CCWFacts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CCWFacts View Post
No, not if it's for simple self-defense.

Not if it's a weak reason like "I sometimes travel to dangerous areas". Thin reasons like that won't work.

But look at these two hypothetical good cause statements:
  • I go hiking to remote areas

Vs:
  • I go hiking to remote areas. Here are my trail passes for the past 12 months. I have attended these seminars on wilderness safety; here are the certificates. Here are maps of locations I camped at, and here's the location of the nearest police presence, which as you can see is an hour a way. Here's my membership of [some hiking organization]. Here's my records of trail and park cleanup volunteer activity I did with the park service. Here are my plans for hiking trips I'll be taking next year, showing locations and proximity to law enforcement services. Here are the safety training courses I've signed up for next year. Here are pictures of me at [some camping location] on [some date]. Here are news stories about criminal activity in the areas I have mentioned. Here are the list of prohibited locations (Federal ranger stations etc) in these areas that I know I won't be carrying a gun in while I'm engaged in hiking activities.

Do you see the difference? The good cause IS THE SAME in both cases. But the second example shows DEPTH, planning, organization and responsibility. The first is just, "please give me a permit".

The first good cause statement won't work. The second might work. (Obviously, NEVER re-use any other person's good cause statement, so make it unique and applicable to YOU. My statement there is just for illustration.)

Does this make sense? A lot of people have weak good cause that will not work, but a lot of people could make a much stronger good cause statement with some more thought, documentation and effort.

If all this makes sense to you, then when I say "everyone should apply", it should be taken within the context of what I'm explaining in this post. Please don't argue with me about this; you either understand it or you don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CCWFacts View Post
I would strongly suggest that if you're going to use your employer as part of your GC, get a letter from the employer specifically stating the following points:
  • Mr. Employee has been with us for ___ years and has always demonstrated maturity and responsibility. For example, ____
  • Mr. Employee is authorized by the business owner to be armed during his duties at work.
  • The company has agreed to cover the cost of Mr. Employee's CCW training and other security training which will benefit the safety of the business
  • We have confirmed that our company's insurance policy (see attached coverage sheet) allows staff members to be armed while performing their duties, subject to prior approval. Mr. Employee is approved.
  • The following incidents have occurred (near / at / in) the business and an armed employee would have been advisable because ____. See attached incident reports.
  • The company has every reason to trust Mr. Employee to be armed at work and we hope that the Los Angeles Sheriff will issue this permit.

That's the kind of employer letter you need.

If you can get that you will get issued.

If you can't get that, or something close to it, use something else as your good cause.
People often wonder why their sheriff insists they apply with their city’s PD and get denied before applying with them. Here’s my best guess on what I’ve heard. This response is due to the Los Angeles County Sheriffs Department requiring a denial letter from the City of Los Angeles’ Police Department before they’ll process your application.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
IIRC since LASD does not routinely patrol the City of LA they won’t know of low level drama that won’t appear on a routine background check of you, only LAPD would. We’re talking about things that don’t end up reported, much less getting charged. LASD wants LAPD to throughly investigate you and judge your GMC. Then when you apply with LASD they will also use LAPD’s background check work product of you in deciding your GMC. (LASD will use their own GC standard to judge your GC.)

Last edited by Paladin; 03-31-2021 at 8:43 PM..
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