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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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Silvester v Becerra, 2nd 10-day wait unconst. FAQ; 2/20/18 - cert DENIED
The Opinion date: August 25, 2014
The Court: UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA The ruling: http://ia700803.us.archive.org/13/it...3362.106.0.pdf The summary (quoting the above .pdf at pages 55-56): Quote:
* has a verified gun already in the AFS system * has a California License to Carry Concealed * has a Certificate of eligibility AND has a verified gun already in the AFS system The implementation has been stayed until 180 days from August 25, to allow CA-DOJ to develop procedures. That means, until February of 2015, the existing 10-day wait policy still applies. Don't ask your local gun store about this yet, it is not in effect. (Theoretically, law and practice might be changed and implemented before 180 days, but that's not the way to bet.) 1) this affects only the 10-day wait. 2) this has no effect on the 1 handgun in 30 days. 3) this has no effect on Handgun/Firearms Safety Certificate. 4) this is a lower Federal Court; the ruling might be appealed to the 9th Circuit. 5) Only California law is addressed here. The applicability to any other state might need an additional lawsuit. 6) Other avenues of purchasing handguns - LEO on LEO ID, for example - are not addressed by this case.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. Last edited by Librarian; 08-26-2014 at 2:39 PM.. |
#2
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One can apply for a CA Certificate of Eligibility with this form.
See Penal Code 26710 - Quote:
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#4
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Quote:
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3) as usual, court can refuse to take the appeal 4) yes. We'll know if that happens, because someone who watches courts more closely than I will post it.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#6
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Realistically how long does the background check take?
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"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ~Ben Franklin 159 |
#7
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Questions - that are not already answered in the first or second post - please.
Discussion goes to the main Silvester thread.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#8
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Librarian is correct about the ruling above, but I think it's important to understand the practical impacts.
Exempting LTC holders isn't big, yet. Projecting forward Peruta and Richards becoming final means that most serious gun owners in California will obtain a CCW permit. The court notes, "that person should be subject to the same background check as the 18 statutory exceptions to the 10-day waiting period and should not be subject to the 10-day waiting period." That means that anyone who has an LTC and doesn't get his background check approved instantaneously better have already appeared in APPS and have law enforcement out searching for him to take his guns and permit away. The reason it's important for COE holders who have a gun in AFS to be exempt are a couple fold. First, the COE is shall issue to anyone who wishes to get it. If you don't or can't get an LTC then you can get the COE. Because the COE is fingerprint based and subject to Rap Back, if a COE holder isn't immediately approved via the background check, CA DOJ is up to shenanigans unless the aforementioned law enforcement activity has already been started to disarm that individual. If you have a COE and don't get an instant approval, we'd like to sue on your behalf! If you don't have either license you may very well get an instant background check. However, you arguably have an 80% chance of not getting an instant check without the licenses above. What we don't know is how many of the 80% are actually first time buyers who haven't yet had changes made to their records that will allow them to be determined to be in the 20% next time. Also, the core logic of this case is that CA DOJ will have to justify why some people who already own guns are being delayed. But that issue is for a future case with specific delayed individuals and their specific facts. If you want to avoid the 80% drama, get one of the licenses/permits and never wait again (once this case is final or the law is changed to conform to this case.) -Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
Last edited by hoffmang; 08-25-2014 at 9:22 PM.. |
#9
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Yeah, I still hope people read stickies, too.
But this is truly an FAQ thread - if it becomes a discussion thread, soon it will be as confusing as the main thread. Since the point of this one is to let folks avoid the other - but cover here only the superficial aspects - I'm going to keep this one pruned. I could just lock this one, and may do that in the next day or so, but some useful questions have appeared, and getting those in the answer posts seems like it will be useful. === ETA the COE discussion has been spun off to its own thread in the How CA Laws Apply to me forum.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. Last edited by Librarian; 08-26-2014 at 1:57 PM.. |
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Quote:
Quote:
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#12
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See the thread in the How does CA law affect me forum.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#13
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Most of the obvious, superficial questions have been asked and addressed.
More subtle points need to be addressed in the discussion thread. Closed.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#14
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I should have added this before - mea culpa.
Appeal to the 9th Circuit: Quote:
If there is a reply brief, the 9th Circuit probably won't do anything visible until the end of April, 2015. Case files for Eastern District level available via Michel & Associates - http://michellawyers.com/silvester-v-harris/
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. Last edited by Librarian; 01-16-2015 at 2:34 PM.. |
#15
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Feb 3, 2015: 9th granted to Kamala Harris an extension of time to file briefs -
Quote:
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#16
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A note on case stickies:
The threads are NOT 'dead'. A lack of updates generally means nothing has happened. Follow this case at Michel and Associates, http://michellawyers.com/silvester-v-harris/ , which may or may not update before one of the lawyers posts an update.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#18
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Oral arguments announced:
Quote:
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#19
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Oral arguments completed.
No known way to predict the time a decision might be released. Check with http://michellawyers.com/silvester-v-harris/ Ordinarily, someone will post in the existing thread, or start a new thread, when a result is available.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#20
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#21
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2/13/17 Petition for En Banc: https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.ne...pdf?1487021312
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#22
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4/5/17 9th denies en banc. See main discussion thread.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#23
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Sept 1, Silvester et al file for certiorari - https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.ne...pdf?1504284264
Quote:
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#24
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Cert denied, 2/20/18
Order, and Justice Thomas' dissent, at https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/...18zor_fd9g.pdf
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. Last edited by Librarian; 02-20-2018 at 11:24 AM.. |
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