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Coronavirus/COVID19 Temp Forum This is a temporary forum for discussion, debate, sharing and helping each other during and in relation to the Coronavirus/COVID19

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  #1  
Old 01-10-2021, 7:04 PM
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Default Delayed 2nd dose

WSJ says Biden plans to release all available shots for first doses. If the treatment is 2 shots 3-4 weeks apart is that not medically ill advised? Like skipping a rabies shot?
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Old 01-10-2021, 7:10 PM
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I was wondering the same thing. This could reduce effectiveness and severely shorten supply by making three or more applications required.
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Old 01-10-2021, 7:35 PM
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I read that other countries are using that tactic. The thinking is that it's better to have 100 million people with 60% immunity than 50 million with 95%. And maybe the illness is less deadly in those with only one dose?
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Old 01-10-2021, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmike82 View Post
I read that other countries are using that tactic. The thinking is that it's better to have 100 million people with 60% immunity than 50 million with 95%. And maybe the illness is less deadly in those with only one dose?
Hahaha
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Old 01-10-2021, 8:06 PM
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You do KNOW that biden IS clueless ?

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  #6  
Old 01-10-2021, 8:08 PM
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That potato isn't deciding anything, it's all done for him.
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Old 01-10-2021, 9:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bigmike82 View Post
I read that other countries are using that tactic. The thinking is that it's better to have 100 million people with 60% immunity than 50 million with 95%. And maybe the illness is less deadly in those with only one dose?
Both those expectations seem reasonably grounded in vaccinology, but the two main vaccines are of a type never before tried. I've seen vaccination data where the longer the interval between 1st and 2nd shots the better the response. Given how mild the disease is for most people, having at least some priming from the first shot might well produce an even more resistant population. Some pre-existing resistance in some people is also one theory about why the virus seems to wholly or mostly pass many people by.
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Old 01-11-2021, 9:22 AM
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He's got to make it look that he is doing something. I believe Fauci has said that he opposes such a move.
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Old 01-11-2021, 9:44 AM
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In the words of Barack, 'Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f things up".
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When the middle east descends into complete chaos in 2-3 years due in part to the actions of this administration I'll necro post about how clueless I was.
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Old 01-11-2021, 9:55 AM
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Getting my second dose tomorrow.
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Old 01-11-2021, 10:40 AM
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Funny, I also read that they can cut the dose in half, and it will be just as effective. Sounds about right, it's just about $$$ and control.
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Old 01-11-2021, 11:22 AM
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What does the science say?🤨

I'm not a proponent of everyone needs a vaccine either.
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Old 01-11-2021, 9:43 PM
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There is a decent summary of the estimated impact here. We have some small amount of trial data on Moderna and Pfizer vaccines where only one dose was delivered, as some trial participants could not or did not get the second shot. Those data suggest efficacy is still pretty good, but not as good, and we don't see evidence for it doing any harm. But it is a small dataset.

There are also some game theory papers suggesting that, at the macro level, single doses at lower protectivity have a greater impact than insisting on fixed double-dose schedules.

Personally I am wholly unsupportive of the attempts to game the recommended dosage. This treats a symptom, not the problem -- if we are having problems distributing double doses, we'll likely have the same problems with individual doses. Or perhaps worse, as now we'll have to track more patients.

From an individual perspective, you are better off getting two doses instead of one. You will likely have a better immune response, and you will be following the optimized recommendation from the best trial evidence we have.

From the perspective of the vaccine manufacturers, obviously they want to make and sell more. I think we have common ground here. I personally plan to wait until I can be assured the option to do it right.

Even if monkeying with the dosage does have a theoretical societal benefit, the unquantified assumptions in those studies are pretty important. For one thing, we have problems enough getting people to vaccinate as it is. If we start sending the signal that we're just winging it when it comes to dosage, I don't expect confidence to improve.
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Old 01-13-2021, 11:10 AM
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Members of congress started getting the shots around Dec 23. Several are now Covid positive after the mostly peaceful protests at the Capitol. I imagine they got the full dose of saline solution.
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Old 01-13-2021, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
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Members of congress started getting the shots around Dec 23. Several are now Covid positive after the mostly peaceful protests at the Capitol. I imagine they got the full dose of saline solution.
Lots of possible reasons for that. Tests could be false positives. Protectivity doesn't happen immediately, and the vaccine is not thought to provide sterilizing immunity -- meaning if you get an effective dose, you can still contract the virus, it just won't result in any noticeable symptoms. Even a very low level may be enough to trigger a positive test result. Furthermore, depending on what kind of test we are talking about, the vaccine may trigger a false positive. Don't have enough information to guess which is most likely.
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Old 01-13-2021, 12:34 PM
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That false positive angle is interesting. Isn't the spike mRNA the target of most of the PCR tests? That is also what the vaccine contains. I would expect some sort of disclosure given to vaccine recipients about the risk of false positive PCR tests.

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Old 01-17-2021, 4:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marauder2003 View Post
WSJ says Biden plans to release all available shots for first doses. If the treatment is 2 shots 3-4 weeks apart is that not medically ill advised? Like skipping a rabies shot?
He's a moron. He should've asked "Doctor" Jill about it.
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Old 01-22-2021, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by as_rocketman View Post
Lots of possible reasons for that. Tests could be false positives. Protectivity doesn't happen immediately, and the vaccine is not thought to provide sterilizing immunity -- meaning if you get an effective dose, you can still contract the virus, it just won't result in any noticeable symptoms. Even a very low level may be enough to trigger a positive test result. Furthermore, depending on what kind of test we are talking about, the vaccine may trigger a false positive. Don't have enough information to guess which is most likely.
I checked the Roche PCR tests, and they don't use the spike protein RNA as a target. I also saw the claim that other test brands also don't use the spike as target, but since there are dozens of EUA-allowed PCR tests in use, I hope the testing labs are aware of what they are testing for, and any possibility of vaccine-created positives.
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Old 01-22-2021, 10:28 PM
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Biden just told America to drink bleach.
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