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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1521  
Old 03-22-2021, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Many people that purchased rifles 2010 and up felt as if they were already in a registry, so what was the point of keeping any information about ownership secret? People would AFS themselves and find that pre 2010 purchases also sometimes appeared.

For 99/00/01, it was basically impossible to get the silly card to send in to actually register. in 2016, it was a myriad of web problems, crazy photo requirements, dozens of questions that made little sense, etc. If you could even get into the system and fill out the information, much of it disappeared or took forever to process. People were scared of self incrimination, even accidentally. Sometimes agents would send emails asking equally bizarre questions, further adding to the weeks and months that the case processing time. It was a nightmare.
I walked into my local police department back in 2000 to get a fingerprint card.
It was not impossible at all.

The people that had the most trouble registering in 2018 were the ones that waited until the last 12 hours.
Procrastinators overloaded the DOJ system.
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  #1522  
Old 03-22-2021, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by sfvshooter View Post
Not sure if you're speaking from personal experience or what you heard from a friend, but that wasn't my experience at all.

I submitted my info. A short while later, I was asked to submit additional photos. I did so and all my rifles were registered. Couldn't have been any simpler.

I've also applied for COE & FFL 03 online and was able to get those as well.

Maybe when I get older, I'll need some help or won't be able to navigate the sites, but so far so good (knock on wood).
DGF and I spent that whole year helping people here with their problems during registration - trust me, your experience was the exception, not the norm. For the vast majority, it was incredibly difficult, and complicated even further by constant DOJ rejections for vague or just plain wrong reasons. There are even still some people who registered in 2018 that are still waiting to hear back from DOJ.
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AW Reg. will likely be reopened summer '21 to those who weren't able to register by 7/18. We don't know what that means for firearms made compliant when reg. failed or if they can or must be converted to AW configuration before registering. There's a moratorium on prosecutions for possession of AWs which were eligible for registration, but AWs acquired after 2016 can still be prosecuted!
Extremely important note: DON'T register anything acquired after 2016!!!

Last edited by CandG; 03-22-2021 at 10:34 AM..
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  #1523  
Old 03-22-2021, 10:42 AM
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Default Miller v. Becerra, SDCA - Challenging the ban on "assault weapons"

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Originally Posted by CandG View Post
DGF and I spent that whole year helping people here with their problems during registration - trust me, your experience was the exception, not the norm. For the vast majority, it was incredibly difficult, and complicated even further by constant DOJ rejections for vague or just plain wrong reasons. There are even still some people who registered in 2018 that are still waiting to hear back from DOJ.

Thanks for everything you did CandG

My experience was also really quite simple with not too much back and forth with the DOJ. Your guide made it pretty clear what the doís and dontís were. I submitted in December and by March I believe everything was complete and I received my letter
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  #1524  
Old 03-22-2021, 2:09 PM
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1 back and forth for me. Easier than a CCW application in CA in Sac county and cheaper.
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  #1525  
Old 03-23-2021, 7:07 PM
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Miller will shortly be moot.

Slow Joe is gonna issue an EO banning all supposed phony made up crap term of "AW".

Unless Pukelosi-Schumer kill the filibuster and beat him to it.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bid...-control-psaki

Same O, Same O as former Pres. O-hole. And his "illegal dreamer crap EO". Because he just couldn't wait for congress to act.

Last edited by pacrat; 03-23-2021 at 7:20 PM..
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  #1526  
Old 03-23-2021, 7:19 PM
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Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
Miller will shortly be moot.

Slow Joe is gonna issue an EO banning all supposed phony made up crap term of "AW".

Unless Pukelosi-Schumer kill the filibuster and beat him to it.

Iím pretty sure you canít EO an assault weapons ban, but who the hell knows whatíll happen.
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  #1527  
Old 03-23-2021, 7:22 PM
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Originally Posted by BBot12 View Post
Iím pretty sure you canít EO an assault weapons ban, but who the hell knows whatíll happen.

Check the ETA on my last post. Sure he can just like O-hole did. It's a Dem Thing.
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  #1528  
Old 03-23-2021, 7:25 PM
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Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
Miller will shortly be moot.

Slow Joe is gonna issue an EO banning all supposed phony made up crap term of "AW".
Good, I hope he does. Maybe that way we will get this thing in front of the Supreme Court during my lifetime.
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  #1529  
Old 03-23-2021, 9:15 PM
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Check the ETA on my last post. Sure he can just like O-hole did. It's a Dem Thing.
What are you going on about?
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  #1530  
Old 03-23-2021, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
Check the ETA on my last post. Sure he can just like O-hole did. It's a Dem Thing.

I guarantee you if EO was possible to ban assault weapons, it would have happened in 2012/2013. Thereís no way it wouldnít have happened back then. The only thing Obama did was ban imports, from Russia, but that was mainly because of a beef with Russia. Not because he was targeting assault weapons. All other imports of AW from other countries still came over, no issues.
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  #1531  
Old 03-24-2021, 6:38 AM
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Originally Posted by BBot12 View Post
I’m pretty sure you can’t EO an assault weapons ban, but who the hell knows what’ll happen.
President Biden may redefine "can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot" with respect to 26 USC 5845(b) thus banning all AR-15s under 18 USC 922(o).

The counter play to that is that "machine guns" would be in common use and thus constitutionally protected per Heller; although we'd be stuck with the tax, registration, and transport restrictions on semiautomatics.

Unlike Governor Brown who vetoed SB-374 fearing California's assault weapon ban would fall with it in court, President Biden has enough hubris to try. I give him better than even odds.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 03-24-2021 at 6:41 AM..
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  #1532  
Old 03-24-2021, 7:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Bolt_Action View Post
Good, I hope he does. Maybe that way we will get this thing in front of the Supreme Court during my lifetime.
I feel the same way. IMO the longer we wait the further from behind we fight
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  #1533  
Old 03-24-2021, 8:37 AM
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I feel the same way. IMO the longer we wait the further from behind we fight
Same. Let's get this to SCOTUS and get finality
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  #1534  
Old 03-24-2021, 9:44 AM
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I don't trust SOTUS any more then any political branch.. let us not put too much faith in the courts..
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  #1535  
Old 03-24-2021, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by gobler View Post
I don't trust SOTUS any more then any political branch.. let us not put too much faith in the courts..
I have a lot more faith in the Judicial branch than I have in the Legislative and Executive branches. Unless there's a 4th branch of government I'm not aware of, we don't have a lot of choice at the moment other than putting faith in SCOTUS and, more specifically, faith and support in the organizations that fight our cause there.
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AW Reg. will likely be reopened summer '21 to those who weren't able to register by 7/18. We don't know what that means for firearms made compliant when reg. failed or if they can or must be converted to AW configuration before registering. There's a moratorium on prosecutions for possession of AWs which were eligible for registration, but AWs acquired after 2016 can still be prosecuted!
Extremely important note: DON'T register anything acquired after 2016!!!
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  #1536  
Old 03-24-2021, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by CandG View Post
I have a lot more faith in the Judicial branch than I have in the Legislative and Executive branches. Unless there's a 4th branch of government I'm not aware of, we don't have a lot of choice at the moment other than putting faith in SCOTUS and, more specifically, faith and support in the organizations that fight our cause there.
Young v Hawaii should remove that faith in the judiciary. Keep and bear doesn't mean keep or bear...

And yes there is a 4th branch. The rule makers (not law makers). Long standing unelected bureaucrats who set regulations pursuant to the laws... Like the ATF and lower receivers. It does not fit the legal definition of a firearm yet here we are.
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  #1537  
Old 03-24-2021, 3:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ohsmily View Post
What are you going on about?
I'm "going on about" exactly what I clearly stated in post #1525.

Same O, Same O as former Pres. O-hole. And his "illegal dreamer crap EO". Because he just couldn't wait for congress to act.

The underlined is the exact same excuse O-hole used to issue his previously acknowledged "ILLEGAL EO".

Try reading...................then posting.
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  #1538  
Old 03-24-2021, 6:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
I walked into my local police department back in 2000 to get a fingerprint card.
It was not impossible at all.
+1.

Quote:
The people that had the most trouble registering in 2018 were the ones that waited until the last 12 hours.
Procrastinators overloaded the DOJ system.
Not my experience at all. I submitted my application in April or May, and it wasn't until well after the registration period closed before I received my letter. I was trying to register a single AW, DROSed through the dealer who sold it to me - a plain vanilla application, yet it took forever to receive the registration letter. For me, the 2018 experience was the definition of frustration.
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  #1539  
Old 03-24-2021, 7:21 PM
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Originally Posted by BBot12 View Post
Thanks for everything you did CandG

My experience was also really quite simple with not too much back and forth with the DOJ. Your guide made it pretty clear what the do’s and dont’s were. I submitted in December and by March I believe everything was complete and I received my letter
I followed your guide too and had to re submit pictures of one of the five firearms I registered. It was honestly painless and I would venture to say it took a couple months to get my letters. I think it really came down to what DOJ employee got your app.

Also, for they guys talking about larger capacity mags in mag locked rifles earlier, the whole reason for the registration was because they decided bullet buttons were detachable mags not fixed mags.
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  #1540  
Old 03-25-2021, 5:50 PM
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I am surprised that anyone had an easy time registering on the website. It took me multiple submissions of photos and the reviewers provided no visual example of what they wanted to see. My CFARS account has been inactivated, so I canít tell you how long it took to go through the process, but it was >1 week.

In hindsight, I could have waited for a non-employee to do the CA DOJís job and provide clear directions.

Iím glad it was easy for a few people, but I think there were a lot of us who are very good at following directions who had a lot of problems.
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  #1541  
Old 03-30-2021, 2:33 PM
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I don’t really want to add to the digression from the heart of this thread, but just wanted to add my two cents. I also didn’t have any issues using CFARS and submitting for AW registration. I followed notes here on the forum, applied in April, and got my letters in June. The only hard part was waiting. I had one message to submit a few more photos and change one thing on one of the electronic forms, but otherwise had nothing else to do but wait. Sorry to hear so many others had a hard go at it. If I remember correctly, I believe the applications put in closer to the deadline benefitted from all the errors the DOJ was committing interpreting the guns, brands, and configurations being submitted.

Last edited by aramis3655; 03-30-2021 at 2:36 PM.. Reason: Used wrong term. Updated it.
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  #1542  
Old 03-30-2021, 2:47 PM
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Originally Posted by aBrowningfan View Post

Not my experience at all. I submitted my application in April or May, and it wasn't until well after the registration period closed before I received my letter. I was trying to register a single AW, DROSed through the dealer who sold it to me - a plain vanilla application, yet it took forever to receive the registration letter. For me, the 2018 experience was the definition of frustration.
It all depended on the timing and the specific situation with each firearm. It was possible to have a name brand highly standard AR that would go right through. Oddball's and custom stuff either sailed through or spent months going back and forth with the "agent" trying to get it sorted. It also depended on the competency of the "agent", who usually could barely ask legit questions.

Even though I submitted over 20 firearms in three different groups (because it was so much work to photograph and monitor the progress) I got so many different results. Some popped up immediately and took less than 2 weeks, others I spent months going back and forth trying to explain and deal with the "agents".

In one word: it was arbitrary. The results were highly arbitrary. Sure people that waited until the last minute were extra screwed.

All said and done there was basically about 50k that got in this registration period? What an absolute disaster. That means out of hundreds of thousands, maybe as high as 1-2 million bullet button firearms sold between 2000-2016 (I always estimated 2.5 million) only about 2-3% were registered?

No one can get numbers like that withouth INTENDING the system to fail.
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  #1543  
Old 03-30-2021, 3:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
INTENDING the system to fail.
Bingo
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AW Reg. will likely be reopened summer '21 to those who weren't able to register by 7/18. We don't know what that means for firearms made compliant when reg. failed or if they can or must be converted to AW configuration before registering. There's a moratorium on prosecutions for possession of AWs which were eligible for registration, but AWs acquired after 2016 can still be prosecuted!
Extremely important note: DON'T register anything acquired after 2016!!!
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  #1544  
Old 03-30-2021, 3:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CandG View Post
Bingo
EXACTLY like the LEFTIST mandatory AMMO REGISTRATION SCAM.

Amazingly these SCAMS are designed to fail. ALWAYS incur MONETARY FEES paid by the very citizens that are being punished.

ERGO, we citizens are forced to PAY FOR THE PLANNED FAILURES OF POLITICOS.
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  #1545  
Old 03-30-2021, 4:07 PM
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Miller will shortly be moot.
After Young, Miller is already moot, no matter what Judge Benitez concludes. Assuming he overturns the law, the notice of appeal and an emergency application for a stay pending appeal will issue so fast it will make your head spin, and then in about a year and a half, the Ninth will reverse and find the restriction entirely valid. Since you do not have a right to bear arms, you are condemned to bare arms.
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  #1546  
Old 03-30-2021, 4:59 PM
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After Young, Miller is already moot, no matter what Judge Benitez concludes. Assuming he overturns the law, the notice of appeal and an emergency application for a stay pending appeal will issue so fast it will make your head spin, and then in about a year and a half, the Ninth will reverse and find the restriction entirely valid. Since you do not have a right to bear arms, you are condemned to bare arms.
I wonder if every time Benitez pulls a 2A case if the CA9 doesn't start preparing their en banc case. If they aren't, they should so the whole process doesn't take so long.
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  #1547  
Old 03-30-2021, 5:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
It all depended on the timing and the specific situation with each firearm. It was possible to have a name brand highly standard AR that would go right through. Oddball's and custom stuff either sailed through or spent months going back and forth with the "agent" trying to get it sorted. It also depended on the competency of the "agent", who usually could barely ask legit questions.

Even though I submitted over 20 firearms in three different groups (because it was so much work to photograph and monitor the progress) I got so many different results. Some popped up immediately and took less than 2 weeks, others I spent months going back and forth trying to explain and deal with the "agents".

In one word: it was arbitrary. The results were highly arbitrary. Sure people that waited until the last minute were extra screwed.

All said and done there was basically about 50k that got in this registration period? What an absolute disaster. That means out of hundreds of thousands, maybe as high as 1-2 million bullet button firearms sold between 2000-2016 (I always estimated 2.5 million) only about 2-3% were registered?

No one can get numbers like that withouth INTENDING the system to fail.
I even had a DOJ worker say that they were being told to tell everyone no removals from the existing AW DB would happen until the new one kicked in after the new year. This was Harris in the wheelhouse.
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  #1548  
Old 04-07-2021, 5:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
...All said and done there was basically about 50k that got in this registration period? What an absolute disaster. That means out of hundreds of thousands, maybe as high as 1-2 million bullet button firearms sold between 2000-2016 (I always estimated 2.5 million) only about 2-3% were registered?
No one can get numbers like that without INTENDING the system to fail.

I don't know, it sounds like there are many that are jumping on the bandwagon now that they've experienced a locked or fin gripped AR for the past 2 years. Back then the mantra was no registration, the smaller the number the better. Now it's by design... I go to the range weekly for 4+ hours and have met maybe 1 or 2 actual registered ARs. Everyone runs maglocked or fin and they all say heck no to registration.
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  #1549  
Old 04-07-2021, 3:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tabascoz28 View Post

I don't know, it sounds like there are many that are jumping on the bandwagon now that they've experienced a locked or fin gripped AR for the past 2 years. Back then the mantra was no registration, the smaller the number the better. Now it's by design... I go to the range weekly for 4+ hours and have met maybe 1 or 2 actual registered ARs. Everyone runs maglocked or fin and they all say heck no to registration.
My ARs have Thordsen stocks, so no fin, no maglock. That may change in the future. I note that banning the Thordsen stock is included in the DiFI AR ban bill pending in the Senate. But for now, it is an excellent solution to fin grips.
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  #1550  
Old 04-08-2021, 9:54 AM
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I like the Thordsen stock! Very easy to DIY and it feels good in the hand. I think it's a quality product and a great alternative.
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  #1551  
Old 04-08-2021, 10:45 AM
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I agree, the Thordsen stock is excellent. But of late, I switched to a fixed stock and a resurgent grip just to see if that works.
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Old 04-08-2021, 1:43 PM
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Originally Posted by swift View Post
I am surprised that anyone had an easy time registering on the website. It took me multiple submissions of photos and the reviewers provided no visual example of what they wanted to see. My CFARS account has been inactivated, so I canít tell you how long it took to go through the process, but it was >1 week.

In hindsight, I could have waited for a non-employee to do the CA DOJís job and provide clear directions.

Iím glad it was easy for a few people, but I think there were a lot of us who are very good at following directions who had a lot of problems.
I registered 3 AR15, I found it to be easy. Although it was stupid and I don't think we should have had to register them. I too some pictures on my iPhone emailed them to myself and uploaded on the states website. don't recall but think it was a few months later I got my letter. I do thin that allot of pple who had issues probably wait till e last minute. However the site should have ben easier to navigate and should have been built to handle that, obviously it wasn't.
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  #1553  
Old 04-09-2021, 2:09 PM
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I've got that tingling feeling...
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  #1554  
Old 04-09-2021, 2:51 PM
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I've got that tingling feeling...
I hope you are correct.

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  #1555  
Old 04-09-2021, 7:23 PM
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what what what ? what do you guys think you know that we dont
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  #1556  
Old 04-10-2021, 8:00 AM
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Originally Posted by cxr View Post
what what what ? what do you guys think you know that we dont
We were hoping for another Friday night ruling from Saint Benitez. I guess not. I wonder what is taking so long.

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  #1557  
Old 04-10-2021, 8:25 AM
Bolt_Action Bolt_Action is offline
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Originally Posted by sparky1979 View Post
We were hoping for another Friday night ruling from Saint Benitez. I guess not. I wonder what is taking so long.

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Probably the same thing that took so long the first two times he ruled on cases similar to this one.
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Old 04-10-2021, 10:50 AM
Offwidth Offwidth is offline
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We were hoping for another Friday night ruling from Saint Benitez. I guess not. I wonder what is taking so long.
He is taking time drawing a giant and elaborate middle finger to 9th circus appeals and en banc panels whom he knows too well will overrule him.
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Old 04-10-2021, 12:19 PM
jcwatchdog jcwatchdog is offline
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I need him to take a little more time, I still have a few things to pick up.

Please just wait

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Old 04-10-2021, 12:22 PM
sparky1979 sparky1979 is offline
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Originally Posted by Offwidth View Post
He is taking time drawing a giant and elaborate middle finger to 9th circus appeals and en banc panels whom he knows too well will overrule him.


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