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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: What are your feelings about Front Sight?
Great Training for Beginners Only. 88 8.33%
Great Training Beginner and Advanced. 696 65.85%
The Quality of Training is Going Down Hill. 24 2.27%
I paid too much for my Membership! 47 4.45%
They will go out of business this year! 31 2.93%
Don't want anything to do with them! 171 16.18%
Voters: 1057. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11921  
Old 07-20-2020, 4:10 PM
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So now they want us to shoot from at least two positions from 100 yd?

OK, my two positions:
Regular prone
Green Army Men prone

J/K


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  #11922  
Old 07-21-2020, 8:24 AM
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Default Knight of Front Sight

Does anyone remember what the original price was for the Knight of FS? Was it somewhere close to 20k? I just got an email this morning cutting the price to 5k. Besides all the normal FS swag (pins, hats, sword), comes with a 1911, a million points, and president plus 9 (private training).
  #11923  
Old 07-21-2020, 8:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthBay Shooter View Post
Does anyone remember what the original price was for the Knight of FS? Was it somewhere close to 20k? I just got an email this morning cutting the price to 5k. Besides all the normal FS swag (pins, hats, sword), comes with a 1911, a million points, and president plus 9 (private training).

That's how he's been selling stuff since 1992 or whenever he started the LV location...
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  #11924  
Old 07-21-2020, 9:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dad4mnc View Post
Thatís what I was referring to, staying in the sitting, prone, etc and no getting up between shots. Again, I may be interpreting that incorrect.
It makes sense. Dropping to a position from standing gets your pulse up. Staying in position would have a definite advantage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah....thatís the confusion. Yes - staying in an alternative position would disqualify. If you stay standing, you must return scope, sling, magnifier, etc to original positions in READY. But all shots can be done standing and qualify.
  #11925  
Old 07-21-2020, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.5Grendelfan View Post
Ah....thatís the confusion. Yes - staying in an alternative position would disqualify. If you stay standing, you must return scope, sling, magnifier, etc to original positions in READY. But all shots can be done standing and qualify.




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  #11926  
Old 07-22-2020, 1:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthBay Shooter View Post
Does anyone remember what the original price was for the Knight of FS? Was it somewhere close to 20k? I just got an email this morning cutting the price to 5k. Besides all the normal FS swag (pins, hats, sword), comes with a 1911, a million points, and president plus 9 (private training).
I think it was 25k originally, and did not come with the president +9
  #11927  
Old 07-22-2020, 1:28 PM
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I'm also cross-dominant (left eye, right hand) and I've never done anything to change it - I've never found a need.

My personal preference for 4day Practical Rifle is to shoot it with an EoTech no magnifier.

I've done it also with a 3x magnifier - only used at 100/200 (but they dropped the 200 skill test shots long ago) Once I started shooting 50yard pistol with regularity, I quit going prone at 100 entirely....200 standing feels about the same as shooting pistol at the 50 while standing.

Using an EoTech, I simply shoot both eyes open anyway. I can do the Binden thing up to 1.5x but more that doesn't work for me. Instead I force myself to close my dominant eye and shoot with only weak-eye open while using magnification. I've enjoyed the class shooting fixed 3x and 4x Prisms (Primary Arms ACSS)
  #11928  
Old 07-24-2020, 11:10 AM
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Has anyone else experimented with the squatting position? It's far faster then sitting or prone and very stable with rifle or carbine. Full Indian squat (heels flat), slightly bladed, elbows braced on knees. No one has ever criticized it as "not official FS".
Oh, and don't try it with shotguns. Don't ask me how I know that.
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  #11929  
Old 07-24-2020, 1:40 PM
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They used to teach squatting at 4DPR. Don’t they anymore?

Everyone is different. I can’t get stable with it even with my feet flat on the ground. I can still rock back and forth on my ankles. My fastest non-standing position is the kneeling, but I can see assuming the squat position being faster.


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  #11930  
Old 07-24-2020, 2:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenponographer View Post
Has anyone else experimented with the squatting position? It's far faster then sitting or prone and very stable with rifle or carbine. Full Indian squat (heels flat), slightly bladed, elbows braced on knees. No one has ever criticized it as "not official FS".
Oh, and don't try it with shotguns. Don't ask me how I know that.
Its part of the curriculum. So everyone should have at least tried it.... I met one guy that was super-flexible and loved it. He was a contract guard at a military installation. He could indian-squat and hit 200 yard steal easily sub 2 seconds.

The RM wouldn't let me use a shot timer to find out...he was pretty impressed too...I'm trying to remember his name. He's one of the real-life target models...the one that looks like allot like Adam Sandler.
  #11931  
Old 07-24-2020, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
Its part of the curriculum. So everyone should have at least tried it.... I met one guy that was super-flexible and loved it. He was a contract guard at a military installation. He could indian-squat and hit 200 yard steal easily sub 2 seconds.

The RM wouldn't let me use a shot timer to find out...he was pretty impressed too...I'm trying to remember his name. He's one of the real-life target models...the one that looks like allot like Adam Sandler.

This one?




.
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  #11932  
Old 07-25-2020, 2:45 PM
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Anyone know if you can order a roll of Front Sight targets? Should have picked some up when I was out there in March, but can't seem to find them for sale anywhere on their site.
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  #11933  
Old 07-26-2020, 9:16 AM
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I don't believe the Pro shop ships out items.
  #11934  
Old 07-26-2020, 1:19 PM
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I've never seen this write-up before but, happened across it when I googled "Front Sight Target". Down near the bottom of the article is a target, I wonder is you could blow it up and have it printed. May be copyrighted?

https://www.trigger-treat.com/201305...013/index.html

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HYnRV7Qv6...ght-target.png
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Last edited by VolvoWrench; 07-26-2020 at 1:24 PM..
  #11935  
Old 07-26-2020, 3:46 PM
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Vinnie....I know for fact that they don't ship them out.
  #11936  
Old 07-26-2020, 5:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
Its part of the curriculum. So everyone should have at least tried it.... I met one guy that was super-flexible and loved it. He was a contract guard at a military installation. He could indian-squat and hit 200 yard steal easily sub 2 seconds.

The RM wouldn't let me use a shot timer to find out...he was pretty impressed too...I'm trying to remember his name. He's one of the real-life target models...the one that looks like allot like Adam Sandler.
I remember them mentioning it but it was never focused on, kind of like the sitting position. "Here's an option that we're only going to demonstrate once, and now ignore it in favor of kneeling and prone!" There was more time spent on them in RM, but still seems like they were under-represented.
Of course, memory being what it is... It works for me, was just wondering if it does for others as well.
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  #11937  
Old 07-27-2020, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
This one?




.
Nope
  #11938  
Old 07-28-2020, 9:18 AM
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Had the pleasure of taking the Combat Essentials class with Assault Dynamics (aka @knockoutlights) this saturday





fun class.
We had 13 or 14 students, the course is held on Mike's private property (500+ acres) where he's converted a section of it to a range.

Mike is a ridiculously talented instructor and shooter.

For those of us who have been to Front Sight, this course was a combination of a Skill Builder (1st half of the day) and after lunch felt more like Tactical with a touch of Adv Tac HG thrown in there.
The first half of the day he hammered fundamentals. Over and over and over.
Mike's a believer in the crawl, walk, run technique so until we could address our shortcomings with the basics he didn't want to move on to more complex drills.
I appreciated that as a lot of trainers out there just want to go fast and shoot a bunch of stuff. Nope, not Mike. We got there eventually but in the morning it was all about fundamentals.
Master Grip
Presenting the weapon
Focal shift from target to Front Sight
recoil management for fast follow up shots

After lunch we started moving onto the steel targets and picking up the pace.
longer shots, shooting on the move, challenge commands, even did some competition to see who could get a shot off the fastest (mine broke at 1.04) but someone went .98 and beat me.

I enjoyed the course and look forward to taking more classes with him.
  #11939  
Old 07-28-2020, 9:18 AM
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Had the pleasure of taking the Combat Essentials class with Assault Dynamics (aka @knockoutlights) this saturday





fun class.
We had 13 or 14 students, the course is held on Mike's private property (500+ acres) where he's converted a section of it to a range.

Mike is a ridiculously talented instructor and shooter.

For those of us who have been to Front Sight, this course was a combination of a Skill Builder (1st half of the day) and after lunch felt more like Tactical with a touch of Adv Tac HG thrown in there.
The first half of the day he hammered fundamentals. Over and over and over.
Mike's a believer in the crawl, walk, run technique so until we could address our shortcomings with the basics he didn't want to move on to more complex drills.
I appreciated that as a lot of trainers out there just want to go fast and shoot a bunch of stuff. Nope, not Mike. We got there eventually but in the morning it was all about fundamentals.
Master Grip
Presenting the weapon
Focal shift from target to Front Sight
recoil management for fast follow up shots

After lunch we started moving onto the steel targets and picking up the pace.
longer shots, shooting on the move, challenge commands, even did some competition to see who could get a shot off the fastest (mine broke at 1.04) but someone went .98 and beat me.

I enjoyed the course and look forward to taking more classes with him.

Last edited by Jedi54; 07-28-2020 at 9:29 AM..
  #11940  
Old 07-28-2020, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi54 View Post
Had the pleasure of taking the Combat Essentials class with Assault Dynamics (aka @knockoutlights) this saturday





fun class.
We had 13 or 14 students, the course is held on Mike's private property (500+ acres) where he's converted a section of it to a range.

Mike is a ridiculously talented instructor and shooter.

For those of us who have been to Front Sight, this course was a combination of a Skill Builder (1st half of the day) and after lunch felt more like Tactical with a touch of Adv Tac HG thrown in there.
The first half of the day he hammered fundamentals. Over and over and over.
Mike's a believer in the crawl, walk, run technique so until we could address our shortcomings with the basics he didn't want to move on to more complex drills.
I appreciated that as a lot of trainers out there just want to go fast and shoot a bunch of stuff. Nope, not Mike. We got there eventually but in the morning it was all about fundamentals.
Master Grip
Presenting the weapon
Focal shift from target to Front Sight
recoil management for fast follow up shots

After lunch we started moving onto the steel targets and picking up the pace.
longer shots, shooting on the move, challenge commands, even did some competition to see who could get a shot off the fastest (mine broke at 1.04) but someone went .98 and beat me.

I enjoyed the course and look forward to taking more classes with him.

Sounds like great fun and talented instructor. Did you learn anything new? What differences were taught compared to FS?
  #11941  
Old 07-28-2020, 10:28 AM
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always learn something new.

a few takeaways:
thumbs forward grip. I am and always have been a thumbs high / modified weaver shooter and having him show me his technique for thumbs forward was good. It's amazing how well I could control recoil and muzzle flip that way but since I don't shoot that way often it felt extremely awkward to shoot. Muscle memory kept kicking in and I'd go back to my traditional grip when presenting the weapon.
something to work on.

Changing the Assault dynamics.
instead of responding to the threats actions, force them to respond to yours. this was a good lesson especially for those of us who carry every day.

after actions / scanning. Where to move and when to move there.

challenge commands: don't just stand there and be a bullet sponge. be moving while talking and be prepared to engage on a moments notice (we did a drill where your partner would randomly shout a fire command while you were challenging / moving and you had to guarantee the hit)

focal shift point from target to front sight back to target when moving. crucial especially on the move at targets further than 10 or 15
I don't spend enough time shooting at 15 or 25m and this was as good reminder that I should


so many takeaways.
Nothing new or revolutionary, honestly that wasn't really the point of this course especially for those of us who train as often as we do but to really talk through the finer points of executing on fundamentals. "If you can't do that, you're f*cked" as Mike would say.
  #11942  
Old 07-28-2020, 11:03 AM
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Jedi
Looked at his site and looks interesting. Where abouts is he located in So cal?
Thanks
  #11943  
Old 07-28-2020, 11:06 AM
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Santa Paula
not a ton of info on his website but he's fairly active on social media. I found out about this course because I follow him on IG @knockoutlights.
  #11944  
Old 07-28-2020, 11:27 AM
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Ok thanks. Site wasnít clear as to Southern California as that is a pretty big area.
  #11945  
Old 07-28-2020, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
Ok thanks. Site wasnít clear as to Southern California as that is a pretty big area.
he doesn't post the address because he trains students on his private ranch.
I got the address after being confirmed for the course.

He does however have a bunch of cool stuff on his property. (hope he doesn't mind me posting this)


wandered around a bit during our lunch hour:























  #11946  
Old 07-28-2020, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi54 View Post
always learn something new.

a few takeaways:
thumbs forward grip. I am and always have been a thumbs high / modified weaver shooter and having him show me his technique for thumbs forward was good. It's amazing how well I could control recoil and muzzle flip that way but since I don't shoot that way often it felt extremely awkward to shoot. Muscle memory kept kicking in and I'd go back to my traditional grip when presenting the weapon.
something to work on.

Changing the Assault dynamics.
instead of responding to the threats actions, force them to respond to yours. this was a good lesson especially for those of us who carry every day.

after actions / scanning. Where to move and when to move there.

challenge commands: don't just stand there and be a bullet sponge. be moving while talking and be prepared to engage on a moments notice (we did a drill where your partner would randomly shout a fire command while you were challenging / moving and you had to guarantee the hit)

focal shift point from target to front sight back to target when moving. crucial especially on the move at targets further than 10 or 15
I don't spend enough time shooting at 15 or 25m and this was as good reminder that I should


so many takeaways.
Nothing new or revolutionary, honestly that wasn't really the point of this course especially for those of us who train as often as we do but to really talk through the finer points of executing on fundamentals. "If you can't do that, you're f*cked" as Mike would say.
Thank you for the comments.
  #11947  
Old 07-28-2020, 1:32 PM
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Appreciated. Just looking for where and if it was within driving distance for a one or two day class.
  #11948  
Old 07-29-2020, 10:25 AM
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for those taking FS lately, where are you getting your ammo? There used to be a place in Pahrump that has ammo at pretty good price. is it still there? thanks.
  #11949  
Old 07-29-2020, 10:31 AM
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Ammo supply warehouse is what your looking for. Still in business just getting wiped out of stock. Good folks to deal with. https://www.ammosupplywarehouse.com/
  #11950  
Old 07-29-2020, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
Ammo supply warehouse is what your looking for. Still in business just getting wiped out of stock. Good folks to deal with. https://www.ammosupplywarehouse.com/
thanks. but the site is down.
since they are out of ammo anyway. is there another option at Pahrump?
  #11951  
Old 07-29-2020, 6:58 PM
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Their site is working now and seems to have stock. Used to be Walmart, but not anymore for handgun. The was a small local place, but nothing noteworthy. There is a Big5, so maybe there? I would think Vegas is probably your best bet.
  #11952  
Old 07-29-2020, 7:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
for those taking FS lately, where are you getting your ammo? There used to be a place in Pahrump that has ammo at pretty good price. is it still there? thanks.
Is Front Sight also out of ammo?!
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Old 07-29-2020, 7:22 PM
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My understanding when I talked to them a couple of months ago was FS wonít be posting ammo until they open.
  #11954  
Old 07-29-2020, 9:25 PM
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ammosupplywarehouse is great, good people over there. I've ordered from them several times and had it shipped to my NV address for all my Front sight needs.

I'm sure the ammo bunker @ FS has some ammo but how much is the question. I would imagine they'll strictly limit purchases to what you need for the course you're taking.

I was telling a buddy of mine, I remember after sandy hook how bad the panic buying was but this seems worse. way worse.
  #11955  
Old 07-30-2020, 5:56 AM
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^^^ this makes me wonder how much issue we’d have once classes start again. I’m trying to get a group of newbies to take a 2DHG (rather have them do 4DHG, but hard to convince that many to take so many days off). I wonder if Ammo Supply Warehouse can be relied upon to have the given amount on a given day. Maybe write them an email as early as I can arrange it?

Then there’s that risk of people dropping out before the class. Who takes that responsibility? Lord knows I have enough 9mm for three lifetimes, but taking all that ammo across the state to and from my home can be a huge chore and we’d much rather fly than drive.

In another discussion, this Antifa-Defund The Police movement is shaking people down to the core, huh? It’s good in a way that non-gun people now want to prepare. These newbies that are asking me to go to FS are previously gun-oblivious people too.


.
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  #11956  
Old 07-30-2020, 6:12 AM
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Good Questions. Call them and please post their response.
  #11957  
Old 07-30-2020, 11:19 AM
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I follow ASW on social media and they're LOW on ammo, like end of times low.
They've now started posting when they DO have ammo.

speaking of ammo: freedom munitions has 9mm in stock right now.
it's not cheap but for those of you who need it...
  #11958  
Old 07-30-2020, 3:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi54 View Post
I follow ASW on social media and they're LOW on ammo, like end of times low.
They've now started posting when they DO have ammo.

speaking of ammo: freedom munitions has 9mm in stock right now.
it's not cheap but for those of you who need it...
Jedi,
not sure how I really feel about these guys. First they will not ship to FFL 03-COE holders in CA. Then they mark-up their ammo because of the shortage. 9MM 124 GR RN REMAN .465/rd. Not what I would call friend of the gun community. But as you correctly stated for those who need it, I hope they don't need much. My memory is long. At some point, the supply chain will catch up and they will be looking for customers.

California's anti-price gouging statute, Penal Code Section 396, prohibits raising the price of many consumer goods and services by more than 10% after an emergency has been declared. Local laws may also contain their own prohibitions on price gouging.

If guns and ammo are essential during this time, and I think our boy Gavin did say something about emergency when this started (in order to get Fed $$), there could be a law suit in the someone's future.
  #11959  
Old 07-30-2020, 4:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Vinnie Boombatz View Post
Anyone know if you can order a roll of Front Sight targets? Should have picked some up when I was out there in March, but can't seem to find them for sale anywhere on their site.
I've got advanced tactics class the first week of October and can bring some back to Bay Area. You'll have to call pro shop when I'm there and release them for me to pick up. I had a buddy grab some for me a few years ago. Let me know
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Old 08-01-2020, 12:54 PM
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LCU1670 LCU1670 is offline
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Originally Posted by NorthBay Shooter View Post
Does anyone remember what the original price was for the Knight of FS? Was it somewhere close to 20k? I just got an email this morning cutting the price to 5k. Besides all the normal FS swag (pins, hats, sword), comes with a 1911, a million points, and president plus 9 (private training).
ya, your correct it was in the $20,000+, my guess, the way it is now, I'll bet there will be 3 levels, the original expensive one is now what will be the top level, and he will over time try to work you up to it with new offers.
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