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  #1  
Old 01-16-2020, 8:22 PM
Starslinger Starslinger is offline
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Default I need a simple set up for pulling bullets and removing some of the powder charge

I don't have any reloading equipment yet. What I want to do is take regular 7.62x39 ammo like Tula or Wolf, pull the bullets, decrease the powder charge, and then reseat and recrimp the bullets. I watched a video where a guy did this to make subsonic ammo. What I want to do is make low-power 7.62x39 so that I can safely plink steel targets at 25 yards.

I think what I need is a Collet puller die, and then a die for reseating and recrimping the bullet, plus a scale and a funnel for measuring and reinserting the powder. I'm wondering if I should try to set this up with two single stage presses, or if I should use a progressive reloading setup. At some point I may also need help deciding how much powder charge to put back inside the casings. Bullet weight would probably be 123 or 124 grain. I have an AK with a 16 inch barrel and an SKS with a 20 inch barrel. I could use some advice as I have never done reloading, only watched videos. Thanks for any help!
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Old 01-16-2020, 8:30 PM
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Sounds like a lot of trouble and need the same equipment as you need to just reload straight up.


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  #3  
Old 01-16-2020, 9:00 PM
Divernhunter Divernhunter is online now
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Since you do not reload I will give you a pass. DEPENDING on the ammo used and where/when it was loaded a few factors come into play that were probably not in the video. Just how much you want to decrease the powder load. Some powders do not respond well to low charges. Damage /destroy gun and maybe you. Some bullets have a tar sealant which would mean removing it from the bullet and case neck. Some(much) of that ammo has a steel core so even reduced FPS can be very unsafe at close(25 yards) range for yourself or others. The powders the factories use are powders we cannot get so there will be no data for it. Leave factory ammo as is and make other ammo with stuff that we can buy and is a safe combo to you, your firearm and others around you.
Unless you want a single shot rifle you will need enough powder to make the action function which I doubt would be sub-sonic. Most sub ammo use a very heavy bullet with the correct powder and amount to make the action function.

Now buy the Lyman Reloading Manual #50 and READ IT. That will answer 90% of your questions and still give you some good data.
You only need 1 single stage press and batch process all of your brass. You will also need a collet bullet puller, scale, Dies, powder funnel and shell holder.
So buy a RCBS KIT and dies/shell holder to start with. Buy the Lyman book before you buy any equipment. Stay away from a progressive until you are doing large volumes of pistol ammo. No need for a turret press also. Batch process and it takes 30 seconds to swith dies every 100-5000+ pieces of brass.
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Old 01-16-2020, 9:07 PM
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I have seen the same videos.

I am not recommending the process they show, I know it works for them but chances
Of an accident happening are present.

I shoot reduced loads in x39 but with pistol powder.

This is how i do x54r

To pull a seated bullet: I push the bullet down with a seating die (slightly to break the seal)
Use a bullet puller(hornady) remove a weighed amount of powder(usually about 4grs 0f the 50gr load)
Then seat the bullet, no crimp.
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Last edited by kevins750; 01-16-2020 at 9:09 PM..
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Old 01-16-2020, 9:11 PM
JackEllis JackEllis is offline
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I think you got some good advice from Divernhunter and croue.

Personally I wouldn't go to the trouble of modifying factory ammo. Period. Just because someone did it on Youtube doesn't mean it makes sense, is safe, or that you can duplicate it. Especially if you're new to reloading.

Buy a few boxes of ammo that uses brass cases, then learn to reload those cases.
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Old 01-16-2020, 9:30 PM
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You have no way of knowing what kind of powder the factory used. Leave this kind of experimentation to those with too many fingers.
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Old 01-16-2020, 11:06 PM
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Agree with all the other posters. If you want to do this, though, you will need to procure a full reloading setup.

One option is to use Hodgdon's data for reduced rifle loads using Trail Boss powder (if you're using a semi-auto, these loads probably won't cycle the action.) A lead core, frangible bullet would be wise to lower the risk of anything coming back at you. At that point, you will not gain anything from doing the Mexican Match exercise, so starting with once-fired or need brass cases would be the best choice. And, at that point, you are reloading.



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  #8  
Old 01-16-2020, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starslinger View Post
I don't have any reloading equipment yet. What I want to do is take regular 7.62x39 ammo like Tula or Wolf, pull the bullets, decrease the powder charge, and then reseat and recrimp the bullets. I watched a video where a guy did this to make subsonic ammo. What I want to do is make low-power 7.62x39 so that I can safely plink steel targets at 25 yards.

I think what I need is a Collet puller die, and then a die for reseating and recrimping the bullet, plus a scale and a funnel for measuring and reinserting the powder. I'm wondering if I should try to set this up with two single stage presses, or if I should use a progressive reloading setup. At some point I may also need help deciding how much powder charge to put back inside the casings. Bullet weight would probably be 123 or 124 grain. I have an AK with a 16 inch barrel and an SKS with a 20 inch barrel. I could use some advice as I have never done reloading, only watched videos. Thanks for any help!
Is your plan to close off the gas system and hand cycle the action?
Subsonic loads with the original powder are not going to have sufficient gas pressure to cycle the action.
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  #9  
Old 01-16-2020, 11:26 PM
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Reduced to you possibly having a better chance of creating a squib.
Watch for it if you go down this road, which I would not.
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  #10  
Old 01-17-2020, 9:25 AM
EricT71 EricT71 is offline
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25 yds is pretty close for steel out of a rifle. Eye pro is mandatory. I have a TA Targets AR550 target that is rated for 5.56 at 30 yds. I tested it with M193 out of a 16" barrel at 50 yds and it pitted a tiny amount. Not wanting to damage my expensive target I looked into ways to slow the bullet down.

1) heavier projectile
2) shorter barrel
3) more angle is easier on the steel, plus its safer.

Obviously only use lead core ammo. 7.62x39 is a lot slower than 5.56, I think if you just use lead core on a quality target you'll be fine at 30 yds.

Last edited by EricT71; 01-17-2020 at 9:29 AM..
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  #11  
Old 01-17-2020, 1:26 PM
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Thanks for the advice folks. I’ll give this some more thought.
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  #12  
Old 01-17-2020, 2:59 PM
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DO NOT COPY MY LOAD

I shoot 6grs of unique with a 130gr plain base tumble lubed lead bullet in a x39 AR, it will not cycle the action.

I shoot it at paper at 50yds
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  #13  
Old 01-18-2020, 3:36 PM
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  #14  
Old 01-18-2020, 3:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKM View Post
You have no way of knowing what kind of powder the factory used. Leave this kind of experimentation to those with too many fingers.
^^^This!. Short and to the point.
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Old 01-18-2020, 6:06 PM
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Well, powder is pretty cheap. What if I pull the bullets, get rid of the powder and replace it with a well known powder, with a charge that brings the power level of the 7.62x39 down to handgun levels?

I think this might be both cheaper and less time-consuming than cleaning and resizing cases, loading new primers and reloading from scratch?
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Old 01-18-2020, 6:15 PM
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You'll shoot your Eye out. But, if it keeps you out of the (•)(•) Bars, then go for it.
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Old 01-18-2020, 7:07 PM
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Lessee here:
Buy bullet puller. Maybe kinetic cheapie but maybe an actual press mounted unit.
Pull bullets and toss powder.
Buy bullet seating die (may just as well buy the set- not that much different and you need a press of some type anyways).
Buy scale to measure out newly purchased powder. (Remember to buy powder, hopefully one that works well with reduced loads)
Weigh out reduced charge and put into case using newly purchased funnel.
Seat bullets again.
Measure length to make sure they’ll feed right and aren’t too deep.
Go shoot.

Point out to me how this is easier?


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  #18  
Old 01-19-2020, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starslinger View Post
Well, powder is pretty cheap. What if I pull the bullets, get rid of the powder and replace it with a well known powder, with a charge that brings the power level of the 7.62x39 down to handgun levels?

I think this might be both cheaper and less time-consuming than cleaning and resizing cases, loading new primers and reloading from scratch?
Still no answer on if you expecting the ammo to make the action cycle in semi-auto...

You can do what you propose but you should still re-size the case necks to get proper bullet tension before re-seating the bullets.
WAY more work than it's worth.
Just shoot full power ammo.
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Old 01-19-2020, 3:33 AM
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The OP says he doesn't have any reloading equipment yet and he hasn't responded to AR15 Barrel's
question yet. So maybe our OP has lost interest.

As long as the Reloader doesn't co-mingle the powder from one cartridge to another from the same source, I think it would
be worthy learning exercise. But not for an inexperienced Reloader working without knowledgeable supervision.

A few years back I was working on a similar exercise. A very knowledgeable Reloader advised me to do all bullet pulling
away from the Reloading room as to avoid the possibility of generating an ESD, Electrostatic Discharge, during separation.

Last edited by hambam105; 01-19-2020 at 3:36 AM..
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Old 01-19-2020, 9:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Still no answer on if you expecting the ammo to make the action cycle in semi-auto...

You can do what you propose but you should still re-size the case necks to get proper bullet tension before re-seating the bullets.
WAY more work than it's worth.
Just shoot full power ammo.
YA. I was gonna add, that you'd want to neck size the cases prior to refilling.

I suspect these are steel cases too, adding another issue.

Curious: if replacing powder rather than reducing factory powder, what's the consensus on Berdan vs Boxer re: recipes?

Lotta work. If one wants reduced power loads, start that way. Not a direction I'd take a newbie in any circumstance.
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Old 01-19-2020, 10:10 AM
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You could also replace the fmj with soft point bullets of the same weight that will probably not bounce back.
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Old 01-19-2020, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Is your plan to close off the gas system and hand cycle the action?
Subsonic loads with the original powder are not going to have sufficient gas pressure to cycle the action.
I was planning on keeping the rifle as semi-auto; I'd want them to cycle the action. The rounds do not actually have to be subsonic, just "low power." I only mentioned subsonic because that was in the video I watched and I read in another thread that subsonic 7.62x39 is safe for steel at 25 yards.

I can buy Bear subsonic 196 grain for about 50 cents a round. I can buy full power 123 grain for about 20 cents a round. I was just trying to find a way to save 30 cents a round...
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Old 01-19-2020, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starslinger View Post
I was planning on keeping the rifle as semi-auto; I'd want them to cycle the action. The rounds do not actually have to be subsonic, just "low power." I only mentioned subsonic because that was in the video I watched and I read in another thread that subsonic 7.62x39 is safe for steel at 25 yards.

I can buy Bear subsonic 196 grain for about 50 cents a round. I can buy full power 123 grain for about 20 cents a round. I was just trying to find a way to save 30 cents a round...
Dropping the velocity (power) enough w/ 123gr bullets enough to really notice is likely to impede the ability to cycle the action.
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Old 01-19-2020, 12:32 PM
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Doesn't seem like there is a 'cheap and easy' way to get where you want to go.
Kind of depends on how many of this type on ammo you think you'll be shooting. If only a few hundred rounds, then go and buy the subsonic Bear ammo.
If thinking you'll want to shoot a few thousand(s), then gearing up to load your own will be cost effective IMO. Fifty cents a round is not a terrible price at all really in my opinion. Try a few and see how the work in your firearm.
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Old 01-19-2020, 3:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justMike View Post
Doesn't seem like there is a 'cheap and easy' way to get where you want to go.
Kind of depends on how many of this type on ammo you think you'll be shooting. If only a few hundred rounds, then go and buy the subsonic Bear ammo.
If thinking you'll want to shoot a few thousand(s), then gearing up to load your own will be cost effective IMO. Fifty cents a round is not a terrible price at all really in my opinion. Try a few and see how the work in your firearm.
Thanks Mike and all y'all.
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Old 01-19-2020, 3:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starslinger View Post
I was planning on keeping the rifle as semi-auto; I'd want them to cycle the action. The rounds do not actually have to be subsonic, just "low power." I only mentioned subsonic because that was in the video I watched and I read in another thread that subsonic 7.62x39 is safe for steel at 25 yards.

I can buy Bear subsonic 196 grain for about 50 cents a round. I can buy full power 123 grain for about 20 cents a round. I was just trying to find a way to save 30 cents a round...
If you want the action to cycle, you need a similar amount of gas port pressure as factory ammo.
To get that, you go to MUCH heavier bullets at lower velocity.
That creates less problems with steel at close range.
So now you are talking about changing the bullets and the powder.
It's probably cheaper to buy the loaded ammo at 50 cents a round.
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Old 01-19-2020, 5:39 PM
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I can't comment on the wisdom of what you're hoping to do as i have no experience with such matters....but i use this bullet puller and really like it, very easy to use and doesn't seem to beat up the projectiles

https://www.brownells.com/reloading/...prod34718.aspx
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Old 01-19-2020, 8:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackEllis View Post
I think you got some good advice from Divernhunter and croue…
+++++ 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackEllis View Post
Personally I wouldn't go to the trouble of modifying factory ammo. Period. Just because someone did it on Youtube doesn't mean it makes sense, is safe, or that you can duplicate it. Especially if you're new to reloading.
+++++ 1
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