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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #41  
Old 06-09-2021, 3:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Blownmotor View Post
KAC micro front & rear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blownmotor View Post
KAC micro fronts doesn't require a tool to adjust.
Maybe you missed my earlier question.

One of the 'doubts' I've held regarding those is: How do you protect the peep on the rear sight?

I get the attraction, but it's not just the peep. It's the entirety of the rear pillar, topped by the peep. Is the manufacture so robust that one need not fear snapping it off or distorting it? Do you consider such 'violent contact' to be so unlikely as to not merit concern? Or, do you simply consider them 'back up anyway' and not a concern sufficient to offset the attractions?

I'm not 'looking' or attempting to decide and don't want to denigrate anyone's preference. But, as I said in the OP, I am curious and curiosity often compels questions.
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  #42  
Old 06-09-2021, 4:39 AM
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I have Bobro sights on all of my rifles, there is nothing smaller and Andrew is good people.

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  #43  
Old 06-09-2021, 9:46 AM
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Originally Posted by TrappedinCalifornia View Post
Maybe you missed my earlier question.

One of the 'doubts' I've held regarding those is: How do you protect the peep on the rear sight?

I get the attraction, but it's not just the peep. It's the entirety of the rear pillar, topped by the peep. Is the manufacture so robust that one need not fear snapping it off or distorting it? Do you consider such 'violent contact' to be so unlikely as to not merit concern? Or, do you simply consider them 'back up anyway' and not a concern sufficient to offset the attractions?

I'm not 'looking' or attempting to decide and don't want to denigrate anyone's preference. But, as I said in the OP, I am curious and curiosity often compels questions.
My sense is that if these micro sights were intended for primary use then they seem less robust. They are very well made and priced accordingly. Being intended as back ups some compromise in design is required to one degree or another. Realistically they spend most of their service life in the folded position and the primary RD or scope acts as a quasi stand off, protecting the rear sight from direct contact.

Primary sights should be robust and of fixed nature. In case of a Murphy's law incident you still have a chance of sighting the rifle. Folders are a compromise. KAC micros are VERY tough in spite of their size.

Fold up sights of any type run a good chance of being snapped off if the rifle takes the wrong kind of tumble. S happens.
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  #44  
Old 06-09-2021, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by TrappedinCalifornia View Post
Maybe you missed my earlier question.

One of the 'doubts' I've held regarding those is: How do you protect the peep on the rear sight?

I get the attraction, but it's not just the peep. It's the entirety of the rear pillar, topped by the peep. Is the manufacture so robust that one need not fear snapping it off or distorting it? Do you consider such 'violent contact' to be so unlikely as to not merit concern? Or, do you simply consider them 'back up anyway' and not a concern sufficient to offset the attractions?

I'm not 'looking' or attempting to decide and don't want to denigrate anyone's preference. But, as I said in the OP, I am curious and curiosity often compels questions.
Unfortunately the term back is exactly what it's meant. A back up. The industry doesn't share the same views as you do in regard of buis. If you want to use them for primary then I'd suggest you should use an carry handle or some type of fixed system that's intended for primary use. The KAC is extremely robust and used by our armed forces. Anything can break if you hit it hard enough. I don't really understand what you're really trying to get at with this thread. It's pretty cut & dry.
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  #45  
Old 06-09-2021, 1:15 PM
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My thought is that I don't view iron sights as "back up." I view them as the essential sighting system and any optic as 'enhancement' for specific purposes. Thus, I want as strong, adjustable, and reliable as I can get without breaking the bank or becoming overly specialized.
I am not understanding why you would pick "flip up" sights rather than fixed sights, which are far more robust,
given your criteria (and your picture of flip up sights with no optics).
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Last edited by Rifle ronin; 06-09-2021 at 1:17 PM..
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  #46  
Old 06-09-2021, 4:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Blownmotor View Post
Unfortunately the term back is exactly what it's meant. A back up. The industry doesn't share the same views as you do in regard of buis. If you want to use them for primary then I'd suggest you should use an carry handle or some type of fixed system that's intended for primary use. The KAC is extremely robust and used by our armed forces. Anything can break if you hit it hard enough. I don't really understand what you're really trying to get at with this thread. It's pretty cut & dry.
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Originally Posted by Rifle ronin View Post
I am not understanding why you would pick "flip up" sights rather than fixed sights, which are far more robust,
given your criteria (and your picture of flip up sights with no optics).
Actually, it's not as 'cut & dry' as many suppose if one ALSO wishes to use an optic. For the A1's and A2's, the only real option was to mount the optic on top of the carry handle.





As popular (standard) as optics are now for AR's, the reality is that the military didn't introduce them for field use until the late '90's or early 2000's; i.e., not long after the A3 "flat tops" were brought out. (1996?) Thus, iron sights ruled as not only the standard; but, as the most 'feasible' option for most people. I was using them well before that and, as a result, I "imprinted" on the iron sights as "standard" for the firearm.

The term "Back Up Iron Sight" (BUIS) is an industry marketing term. When you have a 'flat top,' there are no 'fixed iron sights.' You can have the standard, fixed front sight; but, the rear sight still has to be attached. The manufacturers acknowledge such. As an example, the Daniel Defense A1.5® Fixed Rear Sight (note "fixed") is described as...

Quote:
The lightweight, streamlined design of the Daniel Defense A1.5 Fixed Rear Sight makes it the optimum back up iron sight for shooters using today’s most popular reflex optics. Its well thought out design does not impede the use of the charging handle on M4 type rifles. The one piece design makes it easy to install to any Military Specification flattop upper receiver and the sight is secured to the upper using a slotted fastener which is threaded into a self-locking steel thread insert.
In other words, the marketing term BUIS came along about the time users were able to attach optics efficiently with the 'flat tops;' i.e., the trend was toward optics for civilians, military, and police use. Industry follows the money and markets to it. Since optics were now viewed as the 'primary' sighting system, iron sights became "back up." (Much like hunting rifles abandoning iron sights, something which still rankles not just me, but many.) Once again, I did not come up that way with these firearms and I never even used a flat top design until about 10 years ago. Thus, to me, a BUIS is more indicative of "has to be attached" rather than emblematic of their 'status' as a sighting system. (That would include the 'detachable carry handles' which are a compromise; not serving as well as a carry handle as the integral design and requiring a different height FSB than the integral design.)

Thus, the "industry view" reflects who they are marketing to, not simply their view of the firearm and sighting system. The reality is that the A3/A4 "flat top" receivers now predominate (to the point where A1/A2 uppers are often 'special orders' and not always readily found) and the ONLY way to have iron sights is attachment of the rear and, often, depending on your druthers, the front. (Which is why there are a variety of sight designs, some of which are specifically made to work with true, fixed front sights.)

Insofar as 'flip up' vs. more 'robust' (but, also, fewer available models) designs, my take is that it has to do with your ultimate use. In fact, some of the posts in this thread allude to just that given some have noted functionality vis a vis the type of optic they run. There's also how you intend to co-witness, etc. Similarly...

I started a thread on the GAU-5A back in October. The military does not run an optic on that firearm (at least not 'normally'), but uses a flat top for the sake of compactness. Thus, the ONLY sighting system on the firearm are iron sights. Yet, they use flip-up's. Once again, with an eye toward compactness.

If you view them as 'emergency back up' which are unlikely to see much, if any, actual use, then why would you pay top dollar for truly robust versions? If you view them as the primary sighting system, then why would you be looking for 'low cost' alternatives which may (or may not these days) be indicative of lower durability, reliability, etc.? If you primarily use an optic, but occasionally resort to irons, something in between vis a vis price and quality would seem to be the ticket... or so go the marketing pitches.

In short, iron sights as the primary sighting system are not unique and are not uniquely viewed that way. At one time, they weren't just the standard, they were pretty much the only, effective option. While they may be less popular than they once were, that doesn't not make them 'fringe' to many. It does, however, make them less 'profitable' for the industry as 'more consumers' use an optic now than before; maybe even more than still utilize irons as their primary.

But, that's part of the reason the industry offers varying levels of quality, cost, size, function, etc. Which is why I was curious as to your preferences. While I, personally (along with many others), view iron sights as the essential sighting system and any optic as 'enhancement' for specific purposes, I also recognize that many today see things in exactly the opposite way. Just like many prefer no irons on their hunting rifles and I still consider them to be the primary sighting system on almost all my hunting rifles, despite most of them now sporting a scope.

Last edited by TrappedinCalifornia; 06-09-2021 at 4:16 PM..
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  #47  
Old 06-10-2021, 6:01 AM
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So, in your long, overstated quoted diatribe, you still mention nothing about what YOU are going to use. Are you going with just irons or are you using an optic. If your picture in your OP is correct, then MY opinion is that I would not use flip up sights if you are not using an optic. I would use a handle sight as it has multiple adjustments for distance and it's ruggedness. I don't give a damn what the "industry" says, I go with what I feel is the most appropriate for the situation, and guess what; you might have to pay a little extra for it! Life is pain. If anyone tells you different, they're trying to sell you something.
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(Non caps intended)
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  #48  
Old 06-10-2021, 6:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Rifle ronin View Post
So, in your long, overstated quoted diatribe, you still mention nothing about what YOU are going to use.
Well, since your post is a bit 'confrontational' given the nature of the thread and the fact that quite a few others have been contributing in the manner asked (even appearing to... *gasp*... enjoy the 'conversation'), I'll respond similarly. Had you actually READ my posts (note the one at the top of this page) and the thread rather than getting hung up on the picture in the OP and deciding...???... you MIGHT have noted...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrappedinCalifornia
...I'm not 'looking' or attempting to decide and don't want to denigrate anyone's preference. But, as I said in the OP, I am curious and curiosity often compels questions.
In short, you are addressing a question I did not ask and assuming a purpose I specifically said I was not pursuing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifle ronin
Are you going with just irons or are you using an optic. If your picture in your OP is correct, then MY opinion is that I would not use flip up sights if you are not using an optic. I would use a handle sight as it has multiple adjustments for distance and it's ruggedness. I don't give a damn what the "industry" says, I go with what I feel is the most appropriate for the situation, and guess what; you might have to pay a little extra for it! Life is pain. If anyone tells you different, they're trying to sell you something.
Again, read my post. You'll note that I was replying to both you and Blownmotor given that the two of you were expressing a lack of understanding as to why I held the position I did in answering my own question to demonstrate what I was looking for. Had you noticed the post of his I was responding to (which was quoted in my reply just above where I quoted your post), you might have picked up on...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blownmotor
...The industry doesn't share the same views as you do in regard of buis...
In other words, you might not care, but I wasn't responding directly to you on that point.

In the end, you were answering a question not asked. Asking a question in a manner suggestive of the idea that you felt I didn't know what I was talking about. Then you get upset and insulting when I didn't provide you with information for something I said I wasn't doing. Then you hand me Wesley from The Princess Bride (not getting the line quite right, but close enough) as if it is wisdom from on High and I should learn from it; treating me like some newbie that is leaving stuff laying around you need to scrape off the bottom of your shoe.



Same principle applies as always. If you don't like the conversation, you don't have to participate. If you can't contribute to the conversation, then don't try to hijack it and make it something it's not. If you wish the above to be your answer to the question posed, thank you and have a nice day.

Last edited by TrappedinCalifornia; 06-10-2021 at 7:14 AM..
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  #49  
Old 06-10-2021, 7:23 AM
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Originally Posted by pratchett View Post
Troy with their HK front.
I have this too.

To me they are back-ups. They are secondary. Secondly, buy decent quality, as long as they hold their adjustments, iron sights are just about the simplest things in the world. Dont over think it.
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  #50  
Old 06-10-2021, 7:54 AM
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"curiosity often compels questions" -your quote

Yet, through your condescension, you still have not answered mine.
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Oh yeah....then the earth splits open with me on one side and the (off roster gun) on the other. Then appeared a large red-glowing pit with gavin newscum, diane frankenstein and governor "brown the drain" at the bottom of it, waving their pitchforks at me.
(Non caps intended)
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  #51  
Old 06-10-2021, 8:00 AM
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Op it seems you are way overthinking all of this.

Your problem is your vision is f’d. And if you don’t plan to shoot distance by means of a magnified optic or adjustable (for range) rear peep sight, what you need is some prescription glasses. Then you can carry on with your “irons are primary for all ar’s” attitude.
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  #52  
Old 06-10-2021, 8:02 AM
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Originally Posted by TrappedinCalifornia View Post
Actually, it's not as 'cut & dry' as many suppose if one ALSO wishes to use an optic. For the A1's and A2's, the only real option was to mount the optic on top of the carry handle.

On a 20" AR, a carry handle 4x worked as well as a lot of stuff today out as far as you wanted to go... irons also work out as far as you want to go with a 5.56, if your eyes work out there.
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  #53  
Old 06-10-2021, 8:04 AM
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I have Troy, MBUS, MBUS PRO, MWI, DD fixed... I like the MBUS PRO.
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  #54  
Old 06-10-2021, 8:46 AM
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OP seems like a troll
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  #55  
Old 06-10-2021, 8:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Blownmotor View Post
OP seems like a troll
Seems like "I get to ask the questions but I don't have to answer any, yet this is a conversation".

Last time I checked, a conversation was reciprocal, and mostly without the pomposity.
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I dreamed of owning a (insert off roster gun here)...

Oh yeah....then the earth splits open with me on one side and the (off roster gun) on the other. Then appeared a large red-glowing pit with gavin newscum, diane frankenstein and governor "brown the drain" at the bottom of it, waving their pitchforks at me.
(Non caps intended)
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  #56  
Old 06-10-2021, 6:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blownmotor View Post
OP seems like a troll
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifle ronin View Post
Seems like "I get to ask the questions but I don't have to answer any, yet this is a conversation".

Last time I checked, a conversation was reciprocal, and mostly without the pomposity.
You guys project much do you?

The 'conversation' is different than you seem to want to make it and the vast majority of other contributors seem to 'get it.' Just like when you expressed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blownmotor
...I don't really understand what you're really trying to get at with this thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifle ronin
I am not understanding why you would...
I reply with a bit more of my own perceptions and you insult me, then 'attack' those perceptions, then return to insults.

Since simple questions and straightforward English seem to be difficult subjects for you, let's try again...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrappedinCalifornia View Post
What's your choice for BUIS for AR's and why?...

I'm not 'looking' or attempting to decide and don't want to denigrate anyone's preference. But, as I said in the OP, I am curious and curiosity often compels questions.
Simple question guys. No hidden mystery. No ulterior motive. Just elemental curiosity.

As I said before, the options remain the same. Want the conversation to be something else? Start your own thread. Don't like the conversation, don't participate. Want to ruin the existing conversation because you want it to be something else and don't feel you can contribute? Stop projecting, get a life, try any of the hundreds of threads posted today to see if they are more to your liking and stop 'thread cr...ing' on this one. Again, it's that simple.

Oh? Did I just feed the trolls?
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  #57  
Old 06-10-2021, 6:47 PM
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Originally Posted by TrappedinCalifornia View Post
You guys project much do you?

The 'conversation' is different than you seem to want to make it and the vast majority of other contributors seem to 'get it.' Just like when you expressed...





I reply with a bit more of my own perceptions and you insult me, then 'attack' those perceptions, then return to insults.

Since simple questions and straightforward English seem to be difficult subjects for you, let's try again...



Simple question guys. No hidden mystery. No ulterior motive. Just elemental curiosity.

As I said before, the options remain the same. Want the conversation to be something else? Start your own thread. Don't like the conversation, don't participate. Want to ruin the existing conversation because you want it to be something else and don't feel you can contribute? Stop projecting, get a life, try any of the hundreds of threads posted today to see if they are more to your liking and stop 'thread cr...ing' on this one. Again, it's that simple.

Oh? Did I just feed the trolls?
Oh, I am not reading what you wrote; now I'm just trying to see how long a diatribe you will write using the least amount of words I can write in my posts.
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I dreamed of owning a (insert off roster gun here)...

Oh yeah....then the earth splits open with me on one side and the (off roster gun) on the other. Then appeared a large red-glowing pit with gavin newscum, diane frankenstein and governor "brown the drain" at the bottom of it, waving their pitchforks at me.
(Non caps intended)
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  #58  
Old 06-10-2021, 9:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifle ronin View Post
Oh, I am not reading what you wrote; now I'm just trying to see how long a diatribe you will write using the least amount of words I can write in my posts.
Do you REALLY want my undivided attention?
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  #59  
Old 06-11-2021, 6:00 AM
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Magpul plasticfantastic. They are on just ar pistols and are sighted in...they hit the steel gongs and that's good for me.
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  #60  
Old 06-11-2021, 7:38 AM
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What YouTube operator infomercial convinced you that you need back up sights?

They are non essential and this topic has been discussed here repeatedly to the point of stupidity!
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  #61  
Old 06-11-2021, 5:48 PM
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Originally Posted by smittty View Post
What YouTube operator infomercial convinced you that you need back up sights?

They are non essential and this topic has been discussed here repeatedly to the point of stupidity!
Could you please provide a copy of the memo from God informing that one does NOT "need" iron sights or BUIS? Clearly, I missed it or was not on the distribution list and, evidently, if it has been repeatedly discussed, I'm not alone.

While I agree that some things get beat to death, in this instance, one of the reasons the topic emerges on a semi-regular basis is that people and technology change. In today's world, such can happen pretty quickly and for a variety of legitimate reasons. In other cases, the changes can be slower due to loyalty or simply... "you don't fix what ain't broke."

In the end, "back up" sights (be they irons or optics) aren't essential - unless/until - the primary breaks or doesn't "meet the need." Which is precisely the motivation behind the expression: "Better to have and not need than to need and not have."
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Old 06-11-2021, 6:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TrappedinCalifornia View Post
In the end, "back up" sights (be they irons or optics) aren't essential - unless/until - the primary breaks or doesn't "meet the need."
If your electronic sight loses battery connection or something fails to give you a reticle for unknown reason reticle snaps or internals go out of whack, just hide behind a rock use your cell phone to order a new red dot on Amazon. Maybe call a time-out while you check the LGS.
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  #63  
Old 06-11-2021, 6:28 PM
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Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
If your electronic sight loses battery connection or something fails to give you a reticle for unknown reason reticle snaps or internals go out of whack, just hide behind a rock use your cell phone to order a new red dot on Amazon. Maybe call a time-out while you check the LGS.
The way UPS, FedEx, USPS, and all the other delivery services are still operating "due to COVID" and the fact that LGS's haven't been flush with stock lately may mean that time-out could be extensive.

Tail gate to fill the time maybe?
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Old 06-11-2021, 6:30 PM
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When you're sitting on your sofa and kick your rifle off the coffee table you'll be glad you have back sights. I get it, the sofa and coffee table could see some hard action and you got to be prepared!
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Old 06-11-2021, 6:49 PM
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Originally Posted by smittty View Post
When you're sitting on your sofa and kick your rifle off the coffee table you'll be glad you have back sights. I get it, the sofa and coffee table could see some hard action and you got to be prepared!
True. If you aren't serious or ex-military, you have no business to have a properly setup rifle. Couch ninja's, mall ninja's, you think you are in the Wolverines or some tish? Hahah. Real operators only. Real LEO's and MILSPEC's get so sick of ordinary people setting up rifles with do-dads, haven't you heard??? Silly wannabes. Like something is gonna require you having a rifle in Biden's America. Pfft. Silly little larping civilians. Some people are so sick of all the "try hards". Only the real ones need apply.
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  #66  
Old 06-11-2021, 6:57 PM
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2nd Amendment, hahahah. Pffft. What is your couch cushion gonna bite your fat Azz? you guys don't even need guns.
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Old 06-11-2021, 9:34 PM
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Originally Posted by TrappedinCalifornia View Post
No issues when it comes to protecting the rear peep?
I run a RDS or scope so even if I dropped the rifle the rear sight would be protected. Also KAC sights are made of steel and are very robust.
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Old 06-11-2021, 10:33 PM
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....you guys don't even need guns.
You're right. Give them to me but you can keep the back up sights!
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Old 06-12-2021, 7:06 AM
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Troy with their HK front.

I like these also.


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  #70  
Old 06-12-2021, 9:20 AM
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My AR has a Magpul MBUIS on it and a standard AR front sight.



My gun is a Bushmaster Carbon 15 and it came with no sights and a funky little Red Dot, weighed 5 lbs 3 oz!!! I installed the irons and a Bushnell TRS 25 and Magpul furniture and it now weighs 6 lbs 4 oz. I can see the Irons thru the lower portion of the Red Dot and I can use one set of sights to sight in the other which is what I did yesterday.



This gun has a Glass Filled Polymer Receiver and a Chrome Lined Barrel. It runs well, and it carries very well.



All you older guys need to look at the light weight guns for your SHTF guns as you will be carrying it, and the more it weighs the less far you will go.

I always hear how some people's AR's are <MOA and I say so are you going to shoot groups with it? or defend your family? If the gun is <3 MOA you are good to go for a Defensive Rifle.

This one is just as accurate as any other AR and more than adequate for shooting anything that you might need. But it is light and I cna carry it indefinitely!!!

You kind of need to train with it as well, as it is kind of important that you know how to run your gun well if you are going to depend on it to save your life.

Reliability of this kind of gun is way more important than tack driving accuracy. And if it ain't reliable, you need to know how to fix it when it malfunctions,,, and they all Malfunction!!!.

Randy
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Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 06-12-2021 at 10:17 AM..
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  #71  
Old 06-12-2021, 10:01 AM
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KAC Micros, Magpul PROS, and Troy Ind w/ HK Front.. in that order
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  #72  
Old 06-12-2021, 12:52 PM
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I have both Troy folders and DD fixed…but that’s just what I have, not based on an exhaustive ( or any, really ) in person evaluation of all the possible options. Both seem to work good enough, I guess.

But really, I wonder if the best BUIS is really a red dot. There seem to be a bunch of decent choices nowadays for not a lot of money.

For a “real world” HD carbine, perhaps it’s best to have a red dot primary, with a red dot backup on an offset mount? Heck, you could even use two inexpensive “shake awake” pistol red dots…



— Michael
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  #73  
Old 06-12-2021, 2:09 PM
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Another vote for Knights Armament micros.

Used ones can be had on eBay (do your research on the seller beforehand)l
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  #74  
Old 06-12-2021, 2:13 PM
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I like the Magpul MBUS. Very well made and they work very good
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  #75  
Old 06-12-2021, 2:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elSquid View Post
I have both Troy folders and DD fixed…but that’s just what I have, not based on an exhaustive ( or any, really ) in person evaluation of all the possible options. Both seem to work good enough, I guess.

But really, I wonder if the best BUIS is really a red dot. There seem to be a bunch of decent choices nowadays for not a lot of money.

For a “real world” HD carbine, perhaps it’s best to have a red dot primary, with a red dot backup on an offset mount? Heck, you could even use two inexpensive “shake awake” pistol red dots…



— Michael
I have an offset one on a rifle with 1-6 glass... pretty useful IMHO. I didn't count that as a Back Up Iron Sight. To me a BUIS doesn't have any electronics, batteries, glass (in the living room on the couch).

Another handy setup is a MRO with DD fixed or similar - cowitnessed (for the coffee table invasions).

Last edited by crufflers; 06-12-2021 at 2:31 PM..
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  #76  
Old 06-12-2021, 2:30 PM
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Reliability and plastic AR lower are two words that dont work for me
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  #77  
Old 06-12-2021, 2:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
I have an offset one on a rifle with 1-6 glass... pretty useful IMHO. I didn't count that as a Back Up Iron Sight. To me a BUIS doesn't have any electronics, batteries, glass (in the living room on the couch).
That’s a completely normal way to look at it.

OTOH, the reason why one might prefer a red dot to irons may also be a reason why one might prefer a red dot to a BUIS. The advantages may outweigh the extremely unlikely chance that two modern red dots would be inop at the same time. ( just change the batteries once a year! )

Quote:
Originally Posted by crufflers View Post

Another handy setup is a MRO with DD fixed or similar - cowitnessed (for the coffee table invasions).
Yeah, my decade old ( non HD ) “oh ****” gun is a LMT carbine with LMT fixed rear and a T1.

— Michael

Last edited by elSquid; 06-12-2021 at 2:40 PM..
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  #78  
Old 06-12-2021, 2:41 PM
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While I have BUIS on a few of my rifles I find them largely unneeded and just extra weight, clutter and money. All my AR’s that I hunt with have no back up sights and have yet to leave me hanging. I find a good etched reticle scope to be more robust than magpul plastic. Besides I can’t remember the last time my optics failed me in a firefight.

Last edited by deckhandmike; 06-12-2021 at 2:48 PM..
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  #79  
Old 06-12-2021, 7:04 PM
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Originally Posted by elSquid View Post
That’s a completely normal way to look at it.

OTOH, the reason why one might prefer a red dot to irons may also be a reason why one might prefer a red dot to a BUIS. The advantages may outweigh the extremely unlikely chance that two modern red dots would be inop at the same time. ( just change the batteries once a year! )



Yeah, my decade old ( non HD ) “oh ****” gun is a LMT carbine with LMT fixed rear and a T1.

— Michael
That rifle of mine has three sights... glass, rmr, Mbus Pro... too
much ? so what
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  #80  
Old 06-12-2021, 7:06 PM
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Some people have not had electronics fail them... yet
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