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Coronavirus/COVID19 Temp Forum This is a temporary forum for discussion, debate, sharing and helping each other during and in relation to the Coronavirus/COVID19

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  #1  
Old 05-14-2021, 1:31 PM
bombadillo bombadillo is offline
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Default so not even sure what I should say or do about this. Requiring me to have a covid vac

so just as the title says, my work is requiring me to show proof of me being fully vaccinated, and I say that in air quotes, so that I can take my mask off at work. Otherwise I have to muzzle myself because I'm so dangerous and potentially infectious apparently. I don't know if this is something I can get a class action lawsuit against work, or what I would need to do but I think it's absolutely awful that they are trying to split us apart by the definition of whether or not we have had this vaccine. They're also requiring me to give up my hippa rights in order to verify that I have in fact had this ridiculous injection.


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Old 05-14-2021, 1:31 PM
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and my apologies, I am trying to speak through my phone which is doing a fantastic job of autocorrecting me and not allowing me to use punctuation very well. I am in a hurry to do this as I have to get back but forgive my grammar errors
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  #3  
Old 05-14-2021, 2:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bombadillo View Post
and my apologies, I am trying to speak through my phone which is doing a fantastic job of autocorrecting me and not allowing me to use punctuation very well. I am in a hurry to do this as I have to get back but forgive my grammar errors

Assuming that whatever legal council they have understands HIPPA the way most of us here have come to thanks to the Grad and others my guess is that that part of their requirement is so that they can access your medical records to confirm.

The concern over protein spike shedding may or may not be a valid one but it strikes me it would be a good counter to the sort of subjugation your employer seeks to impose on you.
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  #4  
Old 05-14-2021, 3:53 PM
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Teachers have to be tested for TB every 2 years. If they don't comply they don't work. Noone cares about HIPPA with TB so you probably won't win against covid.


Their company their rules. Quit and find a job that better suits your needs. Its an at will state so you're free to leave. That's what America is all about. Freedom to change jobs when needed.

Last edited by SoCal326; 05-14-2021 at 4:06 PM..
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Old 05-14-2021, 4:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bombadillo View Post
so just as the title says, my work is requiring me to show proof of me being fully vaccinated, and I say that in air quotes, so that I can take my mask off at work. Otherwise I have to muzzle myself because I'm so dangerous and potentially infectious apparently. I don't know if this is something I can get a class action lawsuit against work, or what I would need to do but I think it's absolutely awful that they are trying to split us apart by the definition of whether or not we have had this vaccine. They're also requiring me to give up my hippa rights in order to verify that I have in fact had this ridiculous injection.


You could sue them for harassment.

Just like the New Mexico case it’s all based on workplace safety and then all you do is use the CDC‘s information against them because it’s got a 99.97% survival rate and any judge understands that you will win

I have spoken to an attorney already about this I spent my money so I’m well-informed the reason you’re not seeing cases yet is you need to be fired first in order to establish damages. So it Hass to be reactive case is not proactive cases and after he explain that to me it makes perfect sense why you don’t see all these lawsuits against all these major corporations yet

All this **** is basically a huge game of chicken to see who will back down first let’s be real the law is on our side

You could prove discrimination by them asking you to get vaccinated for a disease that has a 99.9‘s or 7% survival rate and again that will be an easy victory
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  #6  
Old 05-14-2021, 4:27 PM
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It's an experimental vaccine that has killed more people than all other vaccines in the last 20 years.
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Old 05-14-2021, 4:30 PM
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It's an experimental vaccine that has killed more people than all other vaccines in the last 20 years.
Source?
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Old 05-14-2021, 4:50 PM
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Tell them no and it's none of their business.

Good luck!
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Old 05-14-2021, 4:55 PM
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You can't get vaccinated, your in The First Church of Christ, Scientist right??? Use those religious exemptions.
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Old 05-14-2021, 5:35 PM
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My work already knows that I’ve had COVID and I would ask them to prove to me that the vaccine is more effective than the natural immunity I have from my previous infection and recovery.
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Old 05-14-2021, 6:18 PM
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You can't get vaccinated, your in The First Church of Christ, Scientist right??? Use those religious exemptions.
The problem is them saying "fine, then wear a mask."

Pretty soon they will use masks to identify us non-vax'd infidels.
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Old 05-14-2021, 6:23 PM
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The problem is them saying "fine, then wear a mask."



Pretty soon they will use masks to identify us non-vax'd infidels.
If you stand by your convictions then wear it with pride.
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Old 05-14-2021, 6:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ACfixer View Post
The problem is them saying "fine, then wear a mask."

Pretty soon they will use masks to identify us non-vax'd infidels.
Wear a thong as a mask for a couple days and go full tilt.
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  #14  
Old 05-14-2021, 6:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SoCal326 View Post
Source?
Why don’t you find yourself? Just use any search engine of your choice. This “source” has bern outdated as request.
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  #15  
Old 05-14-2021, 6:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SoCal326 View Post
If you stand by your convictions then wear it with pride.
Well I so stand by my convictions I will neither get the vax nor wear a mask, how's that?
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  #16  
Old 05-14-2021, 7:01 PM
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That sucks. I'm sorry for you.
Hope my work doesn't do this.
They warned people to not go asking others about getting the shot. So I took that as a good sign, but who knows. I'm not worried about not having the damn shot or not wearing a damn mask. Let us take our own "risks" on that.
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  #17  
Old 05-14-2021, 7:20 PM
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I think we work for the same company.
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  #18  
Old 05-14-2021, 8:05 PM
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https://costumekingdom.com/images/pr...orist-mask.jpg
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  #19  
Old 05-14-2021, 8:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SoCal326 View Post
Source?
The 'experimental' part could be considered valid based on the EUA as opposed to actual "approval."

Quote:
...An Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) is a mechanism to facilitate the availability and use of medical countermeasures, including vaccines, during public health emergencies, such as the current COVID-19 pandemic. Under an EUA, FDA may allow the use of unapproved medical products, or unapproved uses of approved medical products in an emergency to diagnose, treat, or prevent serious or life-threatening diseases or conditions when certain statutory criteria have been met, including that there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives...

COVID-19 vaccines are undergoing a rigorous development process that includes tens of thousands of study participants to generate the needed non-clinical, clinical, and manufacturing data. FDA will undertake a comprehensive evaluation of this information submitted by a vaccine manufacturer.

For an EUA to be issued for a vaccine, for which there is adequate manufacturing information to ensure quality and consistency, FDA must determine that the known and potential benefits outweigh the known and potential risks of the vaccine...
In short, it means there are still evaluations being done and regardless of how many 'studies' that included however many individuals, the evaluation process continues to be... incomplete. Thus, use of the word 'experimental' is justified for many in that final conclusions have yet to be determined and it's something which is difficult to argue with, no matter how 'promising' the results thus far.

Now, that's not just my, personal interpretation. Business Insider has a piece entitled... Here's why a surprising number of healthcare workers are rejecting COVID-19 vaccines despite having witnessed the immense suffering of the pandemic . One particular passage notes...

Quote:
...But mandating coronavirus vaccines is more complicated, as the Food and Drug Administration has authorized them for emergency use rather than giving them full approval, so they are still considered experimental...
So, by dint of the approval process, the vaccines are still considered 'experimental' in that they have not completed the necessary process. Does that make them 'dangerous?' Not necessarily. However, neither does it necessarily make them entirely/mostly 'safe' (yet) by FDA's own process.

One source for the 'death' numbers would be the CDC itself...

Quote:
...Over 259 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through May 10, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 4,434 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths...
Just like how many questioned the validity of the numbers of death caused by COVID, there is some lack of transparency with regard to the numbers of death caused by the vaccine. The idea is that if you can be killed by a bus hitting you and a test shows you had COVID in your system, making your demise count as a "COVID fatality," then questions arise for some over the idea that being 'healthy' prior to receiving the vaccine and dying soon thereafter is "totally unrelated" to the vaccine.

It all boils down to the same questions Tucker Carlson keeps asking...
  • If you've been vaccinated and accept that the vaccines are as effective as claimed, then why worry about being around the unvaccinated?
  • If the vaccines are as 'readily available' as is claimed, then why the push for a one-size-fits-all approach; i.e., there are legitimate reasons NOT to get the vaccine, reasons which have been broached by the manufacturers themselves?
While the media focuses primarily on the more 'extreme' conspiracy theories, they tend to pass over a few, legitimate concerns...
  • Normally, vaccines take years to develop based on the need for thorough testing and evaluation; yet, these were in development for only 6 months and the data is, in many respects, incomplete, regardless of the claims based on the initial test groups.
  • There is simply no way to know the long-term implications in that not only the vaccines, but the virus itself have only been around a short time.
  • With the 'breakthrough' infections being reported, there is some concern that the real-world efficacy rate may not reflect those rates claimed from the test groups.
  • It has yet to be established whether this will be a "one and done" vaccine or whether it will require annual boosters much like the flu shots; where many individuals have carried forward successfully without ever having gotten a "flu shot."
The list goes on insofar as "unanswered questions." Are they sufficient rationale for avoiding the vaccine, at least at this time? It depends on who you ask and that, again, is the point.

Here is an opinion piece from just over a month ago... ‘Authorization’ status is a red herring when it comes to mandating Covid-19 vaccination

Quote:
...Among those who believe that EUA vaccines cannot be mandated, the best two arguments are a legal argument and a policy one. The legal argument is that the law setting out the requirements for emergency use authorization contains language requiring the Secretary of Health and Human Services to ensure that people know they can refuse or accept the vaccine. The same language requires the informational materials accompanying EUA vaccines to tell people that “It is your choice to receive” the relevant vaccine.

The policy argument against mandates is that the standards for emergency use authorization are lower than the standards for full approval, that the vaccines are “experimental” and not enough is known about them, and it is therefore unfair to mandate them. Two lawsuits have already been filed making both the legal and policy arguments, one by a corrections officer in New Mexico, and one by employees of the Los Angeles United School District.

There are good reasons to reject both of these arguments, though...
As a number of more 'conservative' media outlets have noted, Biden was among the 'first' to be vaccinated, yet he continued to run around not only with a mask, but with a double mask, well beyond the "two-week" period recommended to allow the vaccine to work within your system. If Biden and his advisors didn't have doubts regarding the vaccines, then why would they do that? If you claim it was to 'set an example,' then you have to acknowledge that they weren't providing much of an incentive to be vaccinated in that, in essence, they were saying that vaccination "changes nothing." Which is why, now, many feel the change to the CDC guidelines regarding masks were 'necessitated.'

Similarly, for those who have had COVID-19 and feel the 'immunity' imparted naturally from that should be sufficient (some claiming it is even 'better'), the response of public health officials that they should still be vaccinated is hardly 'starkly reinforced' by the... uh... 'empirical' reasoning they proffer...

Quote:
...“Even though you’ve had COVID-19, it’s still very important for you to get the vaccine,” Dr. Englund says. “We know that a small number of people can get covid-19 a second time.”...

“We don’t know how long your immunity will last after you’ve had a natural COVID-19 infection,” says Dr. Englund...

“If you have long COVID-19 at this point in time, please consider getting the vaccine,” Dr. Englund urges. “It is not going to make you worse — and there’s a small chance that it might actually make you feel better.” ...

Researchers are currently studying whether someone who’s been vaccinated can carry the virus and pass it on to others...
Small number? We don't know? A small chance? Still studying?

So... Just do it? That's hardly definitive or empirical evidence for many.

In the end, those demanding absolute, empirical evidence otherwise it's 'conspiracy theory' are just as 'out of touch' as the more extreme conspiracy theorists. No matter how much objective 'proof' is provided, from either side, there will be deniers of that 'proof' and, due to how muddled the messaging has been, there are legitimate reasons for both sides to be skeptical. Which is precisely why the choice to be vaccinated or not, I personally feel, should be left to the individual and not the Government nor an employer... at least at this juncture as there is no, firm consensus among the legal experts or the medical profession as to the legality or the necessity.
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Old 05-14-2021, 8:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bombadillo View Post
so just as the title says, my work is requiring me to show proof of me being fully vaccinated, and I say that in air quotes, so that I can take my mask off at work. Otherwise I have to muzzle myself because I'm so dangerous and potentially infectious apparently. I don't know if this is something I can get a class action lawsuit against work, or what I would need to do but I think it's absolutely awful that they are trying to split us apart by the definition of whether or not we have had this vaccine. They're also requiring me to give up my hippa rights in order to verify that I have in fact had this ridiculous injection.


you should quit, get a new job.
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Old 05-14-2021, 8:35 PM
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Make them give you the niosh certifications for the employer supplied theatrical face diaper that shows it filters viruses. Are you fit tested and trained by an industrial hygienist to wear it? Are you given the required time “off” from wearing their mandated respiratory protection during the work day. You can play games back with them, comply, quit, or get fired. Good luck sir, that sucks.


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Old 05-14-2021, 8:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ACfixer View Post
Well I so stand by my convictions I will neither get the vax nor wear a mask, how's that?
I stand beside you with same conviction.
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Old 05-14-2021, 8:47 PM
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Sit it out and in a couple of years you'll thank God you did.
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Old 05-15-2021, 2:55 AM
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Print a covid vax card on thick stock and fill it out with information from some bozo who got the shot. You'll need a batch number for the drug.
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Old 05-15-2021, 5:06 AM
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Print a covid vax card on thick stock and fill it out with information from some bozo who got the shot. You'll need a batch number for the drug.
Boom .. this . Just tell the lemmings you are vaxinated .... btw is that even the correct term ? I hear it doesn't stop you from getting da covid , just makes your symptoms less. And potentially gives you shingles, and bells Palsy , and maybe a brain annurism ..
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Old 05-15-2021, 5:37 AM
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Just print out a vax card and fill it out man, pretty easy lol I know a few people who have done that, it’s pretty hilarious lol
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Old 05-15-2021, 6:13 AM
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Originally Posted by uzigalil View Post
you should quit, get a new job.
unfortunately easier said than done where I'm at. I would need a job that would pay somewhere between 75 and a hundred thousand a year in Idaho which is very tough to get right now. If I could get some kind of a tech job which I'm probably really not qualified for I could do it. If I could get a sales job which I am very qualified for and I'm very good at sales I could do it remotely based out of another state that pays better. I'm paid very well for what I do and it would be a very tough move after having been with this company for 16 years.
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Old 05-15-2021, 6:36 AM
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Originally Posted by LBDamned View Post
I stand beside you with same conviction.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bombadillo View Post
unfortunately easier said than done where I'm at. I would need a job...
I'm a pretty straight laced guy these days OP, I do my best to obey the law and keep my side of the street tidy. But they have crossed a line here and just speaking for myself, what I would do in your situation is one of the following in order of my preference.

1. Print out a real-looking fake vax card.

2. A combination of being a member of the Higher Festus of the Westus Holy Diety (that cannot vax or eat mayonnaise due to religious reasons) and a doctor's note saying you cannot wear a mask because you have cystic ventricular microsis. In other words, bullschitt your way through it.

3. Wear a mask and buy some time while you consult a lawyer and/or search for another job.

4. Quit that job and practice asking if I want fries with my meal.

5. Just get the jab. It's probably okay to do so, we just don't know for sure. That's the last choice for a reason, I don't want to do it.

Let us know how this works out for you please.
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Old 05-15-2021, 10:04 AM
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Old 05-15-2021, 10:11 AM
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The problem is them saying "fine, then wear a mask."

Pretty soon they will use masks to identify us non-vax'd infidels.
Exactly. Many medical facilities are now dropping the mask mandate for employees who have been Vaxed but others are not allowed on campus without a mask.

FWIW HIPPA does not give you "rights". Hippa only protects you from people with your medical information disclosing it to third parties without your permission. So your boss can ask. You can refuse to provide proof of Vax but they can then require you to mask up or worse.

They just can't disclose your medical information to a third party.
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Americans vs. Democrats
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We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.


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Old 05-15-2021, 10:16 AM
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I'm a pretty straight laced guy these days OP, I do my best to obey the law and keep my side of the street tidy. But they have crossed a line here and just speaking for myself, what I would do in your situation is one of the following in order of my preference.

1. Print out a real-looking fake vax card.

2. A combination of being a member of the Higher Festus of the Westus Holy Diety (that cannot vax or eat mayonnaise due to religious reasons) and a doctor's note saying you cannot wear a mask because you have cystic ventricular microsis. In other words, bullschitt your way through it.

3. Wear a mask and buy some time while you consult a lawyer and/or search for another job.

4. Quit that job and practice asking if I want fries with my meal.

5. Just get the jab. It's probably okay to do so, we just don't know for sure. That's the last choice for a reason, I don't want to do it.

Let us know how this works out for you please.
They are already prosecuting people for forged VAX cards.

Apparently it is a felony to possess forged Government Documents
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Originally Posted by epilepticninja View Post
Americans vs. Democrats
We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross


We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.


What doesn't kill me, better run
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  #32  
Old 05-15-2021, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
They are already prosecuting people for forged VAX cards.

Apparently it is a felony to possess forged Government Documents
A vax card is a "government document"?

That would be an interesting legal battle. It's not issued by a government agency...
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  #33  
Old 05-15-2021, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
They are already prosecuting people for forged VAX cards.

Apparently it is a felony to possess forged Government Documents
It's a crime if it contains a forged government seal. And I am just saying how I would handle it... in order of likelihood. We're talking about something that would be presented to an employer, not to a government agency. Of course, eventually it leads to this:

"Stein believes these black market deals could lead to a wider implementation of vaccine passports.

"I expect there will be some form of digital signature," said Stein.


Digital signature. I don't think you have to be devoutly religious to see where this is going, in the name of public safety of course.
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  #34  
Old 05-15-2021, 4:19 PM
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How many employers in CA have not required illegal imigrants to show a Soc Sec card to be hired and paid? How often has the CA gov gone after those breaking the law on both sides of that "no papers" situation?
I did not need to apply for a SSN until i was 12 y/o and opened a bank account. When my kids were born i think i had to apply for theirs within a month. I'd call a SS card a gov document.
We need Covid sactuary cities and states !
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  #35  
Old 05-15-2021, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by LBDamned View Post
A vax card is a "government document"?

That would be an interesting legal battle. It's not issued by a government agency...
Actually I believe it is a CDC document. Filled out by a clinic but it has the CDC seal right on it. At least my wife's does.
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  #36  
Old 05-15-2021, 4:29 PM
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OP, you are being given a lot of advice to falsify a vaccination card but I'd recommend against it. While unlikely if they did try to verify or somehow were able to figure out it was falsified, why give them an ability for immediate grounds for termination. I know CA is a no fault state when it comes to letting people go. But some terminations are easier to sue over than others. Time clock manipulation/vaccination card falsification would be clear cut cases.

You will have a tough time pressing a class action lawsuit since they are giving you an option out - vaccine or mask. Hospitals have been using that for awhile before covid. Get a flu vaccine or wear a mask during the flu season. I am not aware of a class action law suit that has ruled against the hospitals. (but I haven't really researched this either).

HIPPA doesn't apply either. HIPPA doesn't stop an employer from accessing pertinent information. HIPPA does hold parties to only acquire the minimum information necessary.
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  #37  
Old 05-15-2021, 5:28 PM
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Actually I believe it is a CDC document. Filled out by a clinic but it has the CDC seal right on it. At least my wife's does.
Still not issued by a government agency.

I dont know the legalities of me filling out a card vs a healthcare worker filling out a card - but neither are a government agency so I don't know how that's a felony offense.
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  #38  
Old 05-15-2021, 5:42 PM
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Teachers have to be tested for TB every 2 years. If they don't comply they don't work. Noone cares about HIPPA with TB so you probably won't win against covid.


Their company their rules. Quit and find a job that better suits your needs. Its an at will state so you're free to leave. That's what America is all about. Freedom to change jobs when needed.
...but, the Covid VAX is not FDA Approved. It is an "Experimental Vaccine" only able to be used under EMERGENCY orders.
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  #39  
Old 05-15-2021, 6:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Creampuff View Post
OP, you are being given a lot of advice to falsify a vaccination card but I'd recommend against it. While unlikely if they did try to verify or somehow were able to figure out it was falsified, why give them an ability for immediate grounds for termination. I know CA is a no fault state when it comes to letting people go. But some terminations are easier to sue over than others. Time clock manipulation/vaccination card falsification would be clear cut cases.

You will have a tough time pressing a class action lawsuit since they are giving you an option out - vaccine or mask. Hospitals have been using that for awhile before covid. Get a flu vaccine or wear a mask during the flu season. I am not aware of a class action law suit that has ruled against the hospitals. (but I haven't really researched this either).

HIPPA doesn't apply either. HIPPA doesn't stop an employer from accessing pertinent information. HIPPA does hold parties to only acquire the minimum information necessary.


It's the difference between standing up and saying NO and taking potshots from hiding.
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  #40  
Old 05-15-2021, 7:09 PM
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We've beat this one too death. Employer can't force an experimental vaccine period, and sounds like coercion is occurring. Op, all I can say is don't let opportunity slip you by, be sure to get everything in writing and/or email. Cya and talk to a lawyer. Be smart about it, it's a serious matter.
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