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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #1  
Old 09-16-2022, 5:53 PM
Big Chudungus Big Chudungus is offline
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Default anyone done basic CA EMT cert training?

How was it and how much and any low cost Jr College or "job training program" options?

Most importantly, do they make you practice on each other sticking needles in each other's arms?

How much value for a SHTF situation outside a fully equipped Amber Lamps does the training have that you can't get from reading a TLDR kwik-kard cheat-sheet?

Seems like pay for baseline EMTs is barely above min-wage and under what some fast food are offering. Is that because as just EMT not paramedic on fire truck you just sit around some old folks home and just call 911 anyways, and it just some insurance requirement, basically glorified Red Cross CPR?
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Old 09-16-2022, 7:29 PM
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I don't have an EMT cert, but I volunteer with LEO's and our group has considered EMT certs. So I am familiar. Cost can vary depending on where and how fast the training is. Some junior colleges do the class. You can also do 1 or 2 week crash courses, but for the latter you sleep and eat there and it isn't cheap.

Practice arms are generally of the latex variety. I've practiced on my own arm. It isn't that bad.

EMT's focus on transportation for the injured to the hospital, and then assisting with getting the injured into the ER. Typically, there is an intern program with the ER. During the school, there is a LOT of anatomy, so dust off those flash cards. And some of your training is going to be how to use the literal truck load of toys on the rig. If this isn't a professional endeavor, do you intend to buy all the toys?

There there is the issue of certification and recert. It's kinda like law school. You can take the classes - that's all well and good. But you have to pass your cert and recert every 2 years. For the recert at least, you have to be be aligned with an agency thats on the national registry.

I can't speak to pay.

For options, what is it that you are attempting to accomplish? For alternatives, there are Stop the Bleed, Wilderness Survival, Basic Life Saving, Advanced BLS, Emergency Medical Responder (simiar to EMT without the transport and anatomy), Title 22 (what LEOs get in the academy), and I'm sure a few others. But it all depends on what you want to accomplish.
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Old 09-16-2022, 7:31 PM
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One of our members is a professional EMT (30 years) and owns her own training co. She's down is So Cal, but I can ask if she knows someone up north that is good for whatever classes your interested in if that helps you. Just let me know.
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Old 09-16-2022, 8:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk2dave View Post
Practice arms are generally of the latex variety. I've practiced on my own arm. It isn't that bad.
If this isn't a professional endeavor, do you intend to buy all the toys?





For options, what is it that you are attempting to accomplish?
For me its bad. Not the pain per say, just the idea. Seems like getting that needle in that vein for IV drip would be something you'd need to have done a bunch of times under close supervision to real arms of diff sorts.
Not gonna buy any fancy toys although I hear those Automatic heart shockers are getting pretty reasonable.
Seems like First Aid has been really dumbed down since we took it in 6th grade so many decades ago. But that was also up in Rocky Mtns so maybe the figured real chance we'd need to split broken legs for walking and what to do for diff poisons and bites besides "call 911". But I think its dumbed down for same reasons SAT scores have been "adjusted". We did a darn slight more than 4 hours in 6th Grade. At least 16.
Mostly I just noticed it as something a FEW Security gigs ask for.
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Old 09-17-2022, 8:32 AM
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Emergency Medical Technician training is an excellent arrow to have in your quiver no matter what your station in life and the good news for you is that there are no needles involved (unless they include epi-pen training these days?).

EMT training is the basic backbone of principals for emergency care and transportation of those who are sick or injured. The much more advanced paramedic level training builds on the basics learned in EMT training. EMT does not involve starting IV's or advanced airway management or cardiac monitoring; it's just the basic, backbone principals of early care and how to correctly move patients so that you don't make their condition worse.

Some of the training covered:
- care for spinal injuries - backboard, cervical collars etc.
- traction splints for femur fractures
- bleeding control
- basic airway management using oxygen, suction, oral/nasal airways,
ventilation with bag-valve-mask
- basic human anatomy
- how to conduct a physical exam, history taking and reporting to others at
the time of transfer of care
- how to interpret various signs and symptoms
- how to correctly move people that are gravely injured (a skill not to be
underestimated)

It was actually a lot of fun for me when I took the class at the local junior collage in 1980. We did a lot of hands on practice which can't be replaced by book learning. EMT certification is not a long-term career choice but more of a stepping stone to other things or an adjunct to some other skill set for which you are employed.

It was the starting point to my journey from ambulance service to county paramedic to fire service (to retirement). Weather you are on that track or not, the education and training you get in EMT gives you a very good set of skills that give you a starting point in what to do next once your confronted by a medical crisis. Even if you are just curious and want to learn something new, you'd fit right in. It's only a semester long course of about a hundred or so hours.

There private schools and junior collage options for training. I highly recommend it even if it's not part of a career track.
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  #6  
Old 09-17-2022, 9:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Chudungus View Post
For me its bad. Not the pain per say, just the idea. Seems like getting that needle in that vein for IV drip would be something you'd need to have done a bunch of times under close supervision to real arms of diff sorts.
Not gonna buy any fancy toys although I hear those Automatic heart shockers are getting pretty reasonable.
Seems like First Aid has been really dumbed down since we took it in 6th grade so many decades ago. But that was also up in Rocky Mtns so maybe the figured real chance we'd need to split broken legs for walking and what to do for diff poisons and bites besides "call 911". But I think its dumbed down for same reasons SAT scores have been "adjusted". We did a darn slight more than 4 hours in 6th Grade. At least 16.
Mostly I just noticed it as something a FEW Security gigs ask for.
AED's typically cost around 1-2k. AFAIK, most tell you what to do and require minimal training. A decent place to start might be Red Cross or American Heart Association for a Basic Life Saver course and Advanced BLS. These should cover CPR 1 and 2 man, Heimlich, AED's, etc. Then talk with your instructors and pursue what you want.

Maybe EMT is your way forward. For me, it didn't prove advantageous because it's too difficult to maintain the cert.
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Old 09-17-2022, 11:47 AM
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Not sure where you are located but Contra Costa Community College in San Pablo has a nice program.
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  #8  
Old 09-17-2022, 11:48 AM
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I got EMT certified twenty years ago with my (then girlfriend, now) wife. We figured it would be a useful life skill even though we didn't plan on making it a career since we had older parents and planned to start a family. It helped on both counts. We took it through a JC and it was a two semester program.

I didn't renew the cert and as it happens I just signed up for an accelerated class. 40 hours online followed by two weeks of 10 hour days. It will be interesting to see how the program has changed.
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  #9  
Old 09-17-2022, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Kraft View Post
I got EMT certified twenty years ago with my (then girlfriend, now) wife. We figured it would be a useful life skill even though we didn't plan on making it a career since we had older parents and planned to start a family. It helped on both counts. We took it through a JC and it was a two semester program.

I didn't renew the cert and as it happens I just signed up for an accelerated class. 40 hours online followed by two weeks of 10 hour days. It will be interesting to see how the program has changed.
I picked up EMT in the early 90s and put in about 200 hours in a bus at an Army base. I changed duty stations and that program was not available at the new base so didn't maintain the cert. However, about 6 years ago, I did the Wilderness First Responder training and was surprised at how so much had changed. Be prepared for a lot of changes in procedures and protocols.
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  #10  
Old 09-17-2022, 9:03 PM
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Unless things have changed, EMT basic doesnít involve starting IVs, sticking people with needles, etc.
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  #11  
Old 09-17-2022, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Chudungus View Post
How was it and how much and any low cost Jr College or "job training program" options?

Most importantly, do they make you practice on each other sticking needles in each other's arms?

How much value for a SHTF situation outside a fully equipped Amber Lamps does the training have that you can't get from reading a TLDR kwik-kard cheat-sheet?

Seems like pay for baseline EMTs is barely above min-wage and under what some fast food are offering. Is that because as just EMT not paramedic on fire truck you just sit around some old folks home and just call 911 anyways, and it just some insurance requirement, basically glorified Red Cross CPR?
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Unless things have changed, EMT basic doesnít involve starting IVs, sticking people with needles, etc.
^What Doheny said.

Most JCCs offer the EMT-Basic program; it's very elementary. Basically CPR+AED training (which might be required to be done prior to starting EMT training) + basic ABC (airway, bleeding, circulation control). No IVs unless you're an Advanced EMT (which I'm not sure if CA even recognizes; it's more common in rural states) or a Paramedic (which is futher training after EMT-B certification).

Almost 10 years ago, I took a EMT-basic course through a JCC in San Diego and everyone was just trying to get their certification to become a firefighter or to help with their PA/RN/MD school application. No one was there to be a career EMT/paramedic. EMTs are a dime a dozen; they get paid near minimum wage and mostly do interfacility transport (IFTs) when you start (think transporting a geriatric from nursing facility to dialysis treatment and back). Unless you land a gig with a 911-provider (which usually require nearly a decade of experience as a EMT or you must have a EMT-Paramedic + years of EMT-B experience); you won't get exciting calls outside of IFTs.

Going through a JCC is probably the most cost-effective. It's usually a few months long, but comes with clinical + ride along experience.

Unless you're actively pursuing a career as a firefighter/paramedic/medical field, I wouldn't recommend it. If you have time to kill and want to learn some basic medical terminology and ABC control; it's a good segway (but it's not very different than what most people can learn on YT/internet these days).
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Old 09-17-2022, 11:38 PM
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Not sure if this was San Diego community college-specific, but if you go the JCC route; be prepared for additional expenses beyond just the course credit and books costs.

I remembered we were required to buy + wear uniforms (Navy dickies pants + light blue shirts), Stethoscope, pupil penlight, BP cuff, and County protocol book. Expect an additional $200 - $400 on top of course cost. Uniforms were required for even the classroom sessions and if you rolled in 2+ days without a part of your uniform; you were admin dropped for not meeting class requirements.
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Old 09-18-2022, 12:46 AM
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“Amber Lamps”

God Bless Epic Beard Man!
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Old 09-18-2022, 7:51 AM
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When I went thru EMT training we couldn't dispense an drugs including shots.

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Old 09-20-2022, 11:17 AM
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Not worth it imo unless it is part of your profession (Fire,EMS,LEO, corporate safety professional). In that case, employer typically provides and tracks ceís, provides for recert etc.

The real knowledge is gained in the field working on a busy engine company or ambulance. Nowadays most urban FDís have one paramedic and 2 emtís on the engine. Medic is in charge of pt care decisions and administration of advanced life support, emtís assist the medic setting up ALS and/or do whatís within their scope of practice. A lot of calls the medic on my engine didnít have to really do much because what needed done was all within my scope and Iíd take care of it. Other calls he was balls deep and my job was getting and setting up all his stuff to make his life easy. IVís flooded and ready, drugs out, vitals taken, monitor setup etc. The longer you are on the job and work with your crew the more you know how your medic flows and can really make his job easier and pt care more efficient.
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Old 09-22-2022, 6:57 PM
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I used to have to get certified cause my company required one person to have a certified position for first aid. I was a safety guy there. I only had to use the training a few times. One was a guy who fell ion a piece of rebar and a few heat stroke observations.

Last edited by Rob454; 09-22-2022 at 7:00 PM..
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Old 09-23-2022, 10:31 PM
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thx all, sounds like "EMT" is about what my 6th grade Red Cross was decades ago.
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Old 09-24-2022, 7:41 AM
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I think an EMT course has value, but pay for EMTs and even paramedics can be pretty low unless you work for a unionized hospital or a fire department. If you want to learn some skills that would be useful for a SHTF situation I suggest taking a Wilderness First Responder course. WFR is longer and more in depth than a Wilderness First Aid course. If you like it and want to get into the medical profession and make good money, I recommend setting your sights on eventually becoming a nurse or a doctor. I did EMT-Basic and WFR and now after going through a full Bachelor of Nursing program I am an RN.
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Old 09-24-2022, 4:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starslinger View Post
I think an EMT course has value, but pay for EMTs and even paramedics can be pretty low unless you work for a unionized hospital or a fire department. If you want to learn some skills that would be useful for a SHTF situation I suggest taking a Wilderness First Responder course. WFR is longer and more in depth than a Wilderness First Aid course. If you like it and want to get into the medical profession and make good money, I recommend setting your sights on eventually becoming a nurse or a doctor. I did EMT-Basic and WFR and now after going through a full Bachelor of Nursing program I am an RN.
pay or pay bump seems very low compared to amount of hours training and/or cost of private school.

I'm wondering if it mostly something guys trying to get foot in door as cops or firemen figure its worth investing it to give them leg up on other wannabes.

I've heard about the most important E-medical procedure to save lives in the real world is simple IV drip to reverse dehydration, since you can get dehydrated pretty fast but takes a while to correct by drinking water.

In 6th grade were were trained to do Emergency live human to human whole blood transfusions and everyone did self finger pricks to determine our Blood Types, and also trained how to test if two people blood types are compatible without ANY equip just be mixing sample and looking for coagulating. Yeah, we actually did that with other kids' blood samples in class. Plus training on how to tell if you've hit the vain correctly on both ends of that.

Also pretty extensive training on what types of poison symptoms are what, including on unconscious victims.
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Old 09-24-2022, 5:04 PM
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EMT's are in short supply and are getting paid more than ever. AMR is the largest employer, there are many, many others.

Being an EMT is a lot of work, weird hours, dangerous people and places. Besides you initial education and training, there is ongoing training by your employer and various skills training you have to keep current- the employer keeps track and arranges all that.

The rewards are stunning- saving lives.

As you gain experience you'll bid for different/better shifts and areas. You'll get recruited by other agencies as they get to know you- and AMR is part of GMR which also owns the largest air medical fleet of helicopters in the world...want to be a flight medic a year or three down the road?
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Old 09-25-2022, 6:18 AM
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Bonus fun: EMTs drive code 3 more than police.
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Old 09-25-2022, 7:24 AM
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Bonus fun: EMTs drive code 3 more than police.
For sure. I think the lights and siren come on with the ignition key.
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Old 09-25-2022, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Chudungus View Post
thx all, sounds like "EMT" is about what my 6th grade Red Cross was decades ago.
You're not wrong...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starslinger View Post
I think an EMT course has value, but pay for EMTs and even paramedics can be pretty low unless you work for a unionized hospital or a fire department. If you want to learn some skills that would be useful for a SHTF situation I suggest taking a Wilderness First Responder course. WFR is longer and more in depth than a Wilderness First Aid course. If you like it and want to get into the medical profession and make good money, I recommend setting your sights on eventually becoming a nurse or a doctor. I did EMT-Basic and WFR and now after going through a full Bachelor of Nursing program I am an RN.
^Agreed. I took the EMT-B course with the intention of going to medical route but the stuff you learn is very elementary. Is it useful? Yes. Is it more medical knowledge than the average civilian? Absolutely. Will you be doing life-changing stuff? Probably not unless you're acting as a private citizen in a good samaritan type of way. When I lived in San Diego, I had a bunch of guys in my class going to firefigher/paramedic route and most of them had some type of medical training (think 68W) and claim that their military training was a bit more comprehensive and applicable even in a civilian setting.

Years later after completing the course, I still see value in the program. Did it help in my current career? Absolute not. But did the knowledge I gain prepare me for SHTF/medical emergencies that may come up in life? Absolutely.
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Old 09-26-2022, 2:56 PM
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I thought anyone driving AmberLamps much less in Medi-Vac chopper would be fully qualified to start IVs and admin drugs as per E-room doc's orders and be "paramedics".
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Old 09-26-2022, 5:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Chudungus View Post
I thought anyone driving AmberLamps much less in Medi-Vac chopper would be fully qualified to start IVs and admin drugs as per E-room doc's orders and be "paramedics".
Each county is different in what they allow their various EMS personnel to do. In general, flight medics are paramedics but with additional qualifications.

Here is a good video explaining what it takes, in some areas, to become a flight medic

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Old 10-04-2022, 2:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Chudungus View Post
How was it and how much and any low cost Jr College or "job training program" options?

Most importantly, do they make you practice on each other sticking needles in each other's arms?

How much value for a SHTF situation outside a fully equipped Amber Lamps does the training have that you can't get from reading a TLDR kwik-kard cheat-sheet?

Seems like pay for baseline EMTs is barely above min-wage and under what some fast food are offering. Is that because as just EMT not paramedic on fire truck you just sit around some old folks home and just call 911 anyways, and it just some insurance requirement, basically glorified Red Cross CPR?
Reading about these skills is a good first step, but you really need to actually practice them. Good hands on scenario based training is done for a reason. Repetition helps you to to develop muscle memory memory so when you're in a situation where you need to use these skills, you act and don't have to think about it. This becomes very obvious the first time we start doing scenarios.

I got my EMT in December and just started working part time on an ambulance (one day every two weeks minimum). I have a full time career, but want to actually try and use the skills I've learned so the solidify and actually sink in. I and found a place that's flexible with scheduling and runs ALS 911 calls.

I went to my local JC and took their night course over a semester and found it to be quite easy and contained lots of useful information. I did, however, put in a lot of work and read all the material, studied and took it seriously. A lot of people didn't and ended up dropping. We started with 33 people and ended with 11.

I started this all because I was waiting for a volunteer position to open back up (due to Covid) at a local fire department, and decided to start taking relevant classes while waiting. Found I really liked the medical aspect and though it would be a good experienced to work on an ambulance. Now I'm working full time at my career. working part time on an ambulance, and am a volunteer firefighter.

Anyways, not sure why I shared all that other than to say I see value in it and would encourage anyone interested to do it. It definitely doesn't pay much, but I'm not doing it for a career anyways. Unless I decide to become a full time firefighter. In that case, I would go to medic school and be a FF/Medic. Depending on the department, they get paid pretty well.

Last edited by dgc357; 10-04-2022 at 3:19 PM..
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Old 10-04-2022, 3:28 PM
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I have considered taking an EMT course just as a refresher. I took one at a JC back in '87 and never used it professionally. I know things have changed since then (example: ABC now CAB at least for basic CPR) so, a refresher isn't the worst idea for SHTF. I'm not sure that I would actually become certified though. I still want to be able to hand someone an aspirin, be protected under the good samaritan act, etc.
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Old 10-04-2022, 6:53 PM
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Here's a brief video for the skills portion of the National Registry for EMT. This is the Trauma Assessment. I know there is at least a Medical Assessment, and maybe an Oxygen and BVM Skills test too.

https://youtu.be/vsvDUhqlfhs
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Old 10-04-2022, 7:12 PM
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For SHTF-type scenarios, Wilderness First Aid or First Responder may be more beneficial training as it teaches you to be self-reliant and not count on any outside help for an extended amount of time.

https://www.nols.edu/en/coursefinder...ness-medicine/

When the SHTF, our cities and urban areas will become a "wilderness" environment where help and outside resources will not be available.

Last edited by acegunnr; 10-04-2022 at 7:16 PM..
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Old 10-04-2022, 7:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Chudungus View Post
How was it and how much and any low cost Jr College or "job training program" options?

Most importantly, do they make you practice on each other sticking needles in each other's arms?

How much value for a SHTF situation outside a fully equipped Amber Lamps does the training have that you can't get from reading a TLDR kwik-kard cheat-sheet?

Seems like pay for baseline EMTs is barely above min-wage and under what some fast food are offering. Is that because as just EMT not paramedic on fire truck you just sit around some old folks home and just call 911 anyways, and it just some insurance requirement, basically glorified Red Cross CPR?
You wont be anywhere near any needles. An EMT has a very basic and limited (albeit important) scope of practice.

EMT's scope primarily revolves around BLS (basic life support). Essentially you'll learning how to squeeze the bag, beat on the chest, hook up an AED and get your patient to the hospital. Other basic skills would include stabilizing fractures, dressing wounds, applying oxygen, administering glucose for hypoglycemic patients and charcoal for some ingestions, etc. The next step would be becoming a paramedic which gives you much broader scope of practice and more autonomy while still working under your jurisdiction's medical director.

Taking an EMT course or other first responder course is great, but jsut taking the course isn't enough. You actually have to put the skills into regular practice. Kind of like taking one firearms class and then never going back to the range thinking you know what you're doing.

If you do decide to take the course, which is actually a lot of fun you're into it, don't sweat it. It's very basic and entry level. No need to do any prep ahead of time, read up on anything before you go, etc. Just pay attention and study the material and you'll be fine.

BTW, the pay is garbage as an EMT. Paramedics do a little better, but if you really want to make the money become an RN. Unfortunately Flight Nurses make less than a hospital-based nurse here in my area (Bay Area) and flight paramedics make even less, and paramedics in the street usually make less unless you're a firefighter/paramedic. Being an EMT-B or paramedic is also a great way to trash your back. I did it for a few years while in nursing school and worked for the 911 system in Jersey City, NJ and was one of the most exciting and fun jobs I've ever had, but no way would want to do that as a career because of the garbage pay and toll it takes on your body. But as a young person who's getting their feet wet and interested in a career in the medical field it's a fantastic stepping stone. Sadly, a lot of EMT's are just used for transport to shuttle stable patients from one hospital to another or to medical appointments, etc. Not many get to see a lot of action like I was fortunate enough to see in Jersey City. Lots of shootings, stabbings, blunt trauma, assaults, drunks, overdoses, MVC's, standby for fires, standby for ESU (Jersey City's version of SWAT) just to name a few things. At that time Jersey City also had several high rise housing projects that were never bring or dull. There's also a lot of b.s. calls that come with the territory and despite what the call comes in as you never really know what you're going to get.
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Old 10-04-2022, 7:50 PM
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Pandanin Pandanin is offline
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The good thing about not being in CA, is that we have Advanced EMT.

EMT = BLS; no pokee the patient; treat with O2 and diesel
AEMT = ILS; start IVs, administer some drugs, wider scope of practice
Paramedic = ALS; put on the superhero cape and Pit Viper sunglasses
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Old 10-05-2022, 7:22 AM
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CSACANNONEER CSACANNONEER is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandanin View Post
The good thing about not being in CA, is that we have Advanced EMT.

EMT = BLS; no pokee the patient; treat with O2 and diesel
AEMT = ILS; start IVs, administer some drugs, wider scope of practice
Paramedic = ALS; put on the superhero cape and Pit Viper sunglasses
Ca has had the same for many decades.
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