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  #41  
Old 01-13-2021, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Yep that's another good one!
Can someone explain how this works? The P239 is discontinued but Sig still renews it every year. The P229 Enhanced Elite IIRC was discontinued as well but Sig Sauer is still producing new ones for CA. Does that mean they still produce new P239 for the CA market?
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  #42  
Old 01-13-2021, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by five.five-six View Post

I really like carrying my Kahr P380.

Itís like carrying a pager.

You need to shoot a bunch or rounds through it to get the feel but itís very comfortable.


I love my p380!

You can almost forget that you are carrying, as it is so light and small.

When a small pistol is indicated, this is the one to get.


Large, thick and heavy steel guns are great on the range, but are much less fun for EDC...

I have had a full size 1911's, G21, and other service pistols in my EDC rotation, so I speak from experience.

Look at the numbers, weight, thickness, dimensions, before assuming that they will carry as comfortably as you might otherwise think...
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  #43  
Old 01-13-2021, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by GlockN'Roll View Post


I love my p380!

You can almost forget that you are carrying, as it is so light and small.

When a small pistol is indicated, this is the one to get.


Large, thick and heavy steel guns are great on the range, but are much less fun for EDC...

I have had a full size 1911's, G21, and other service pistols in my EDC rotation, so I speak from experience.

Look at the numbers, weight, thickness, dimensions, before assuming that they will carry as comfortably as you might otherwise think...
I find myself carrying my P380 the most. Had it over 5 years now. With a pocket holster it is comfortable with almost any clothes you are wearing. It is also fun to shoot and very accurate for a sub-compact. Was pricy compared to other 380 options but I'm glad I bought it.
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  #44  
Old 01-13-2021, 11:09 AM
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CZ P-01 is fantastic... very few will have anything bad to say about that gun.

Don't rule out things like the M&P Shield... you can get an on-roster version for fairly inexpensive, and it's a fantastic gun that was designed for everyday carry.
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  #45  
Old 01-13-2021, 11:19 AM
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Carry the largest gun you can conceal, in the largest caliber you shoot well. I've been carrying for over 40 years. Started out with a 6" N-frame 357Mag in a Bianchi shoulder rig. Went to a M66 snub in a shoulder holster, then a 1911 IWB for 20 years.
In August, I took six guns (not six-guns) to qualify for my CCW renewal: S&W Shield 9mm, G19, G26, G30, G30SF, and G36. EDC is the Shield with MagGuts extensions on the magazines. The Glocks are winter carry as they are easily concealed in winter clothing, and back-country carry because I don't care if I print on the trail and I like 45acp snakeshot in rattler areas.
My 1911s (full size and both 45s and 9mms) are my range favorites, but I can shoot the Glocks faster, longer, and nearly as accurately. The Shield is easy to conceal, that's it's strong point. It's accurate enough, holds enough, and has been 100% reliable.
For me, tiny guns are terrible. Just sold a Ruger LCP - what a miserable little ***** to shoot. Way too small for my paws, and even though I don't want to get shot with one, I don't want to use one to defend my life. I don't want a pistol in my pocket, either.
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  #46  
Old 01-13-2021, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalRefuge View Post
CZ P-01 is fantastic... very few will have anything bad to say about that gun.

Don't rule out things like the M&P Shield... you can get an on-roster version for fairly inexpensive, and it's a fantastic gun that was designed for everyday carry.
OP stated he has a Shield on his permit....
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  #47  
Old 01-13-2021, 11:38 AM
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FWIW, I have a Sig Sauer P-238 HD CA . . . it's the 'All Stainless Steel' version (slide and frame). It does have the 'LCI' that so many despise, but doesn't bother me. I picked up a couple extra factory flush magazines and got the 'MagGutz' spring kits that add an extra round, giving me 7 +1 rounds. If you prefer more, you can get the factory extended 7+1 magazine(s) with pinky grip extension and then get the 'MagGutz' kit, and you'd be 8+1 rds. . . . not bad for a compact/micro compact. I've got large hands and have no problem gripping/shooting it. The stainless 'HD' model has some weight to it, which I prefer over the plastic guns. It reminds me it's there. There are also PLENTY of very nice holster options for the P-238, IWB / OWB / pocket carry etc.
The gun so far has been a 100% reliable soft shooter, zero complaints. I've ran a bunch of target ammo, and self defense ammo w/ zero feed problems. I carry Underwood Extreme Defender ammo in it, and feel very confident in this set up. Your Mileage May Vary. PS . . . there are also some nice aftermarket 'grips' available for the P-238 as well. I picked up some Hogue grips in 'cocobolo wood' that really give it a nice look, are very slim, and have nice checkering. They also offer some very ergo rubber grips that seem very popular as well.

Last edited by Cagunazrod; 01-13-2021 at 11:45 AM..
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  #48  
Old 01-13-2021, 11:55 AM
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I'll ignore #4 on your list and just say that the P365 in any variant is the best damn CCW pistol that I've ever had the pleasure of carrying. I've carried many revolvers, a shield, XD9sc, XDS-9, Canik tp9sa, various CZ offerings, full-sized poly guns, and number of subcompacts over the years. The feel, form factor, and general function of the p365 is just outstanding in every way. You could probably find one in Cali for 1500 or so, and it offers so much for the money. Mainly the number of rounds compared to how big it carries (or doesn't carry) is what my draw is. I LOVE mine.
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  #49  
Old 01-13-2021, 8:40 PM
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CZ po1


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  #50  
Old 01-13-2021, 9:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SigzHour View Post
Can someone explain how this works? The P239 is discontinued but Sig still renews it every year. The P229 Enhanced Elite IIRC was discontinued as well but Sig Sauer is still producing new ones for CA. Does that mean they still produce new P239 for the CA market?

Sig 239 is no longer produced in any configuration. Doesnít mean it might not be again in the future. Doesnít cost that much to keep a gun on the roster. If they let it drop it can never be added again due to new unachievable requirements that donít exist. Itís a cheap hedge against future business decisions for gun companies to make if they have something actually on the roster that theyíve decided to discontinue. Sometimes guns are discontinued or dropped from the catalog but that doesnít necessarily mean theyíll never be made again in the future. I guarantee if a very large gov contract request came in for 239ís, Sig would consider it and probably fulfill it. Itís not a german gun, itís made here, so thereís no german export bs to deal with. Sig dropped it because it wasnít making them money, or it was competing with another newer cheaper to make model they want to sell. Bottom line. Itís all business and their only goal is to sell guns and make money.


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  #51  
Old 01-13-2021, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by threeperreaper View Post
currently on permit is a shield 9mm and Glock 19
Both are great but looking to add a 3rd when it's time to renew
I know there are a lot of options, but I'm hoping to hear some recommendations that fit these criteria:

1. On CA roster
2. Price: <$2k
3. Caliber: any
4. Metal frame
5. Action: anything but a revolver*
6. Size: small or small-ish -- not too much smaller than a shield or not too much larger than a 19. Just generally a "compact" or "subcompact" size. Not too picky but no micro pistols or large guns. Maybe nothing larger than a G17 size. I'm open.
7. Something that YOU would be okay with carrying

*no, I don't hate revolvers and I understand they are viable carry options. I have several revolvers but don't wish to carry one.
Unless you practice a lot Iíd stay with one platform. Based on attire I carry different glocks but all same platform.
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  #52  
Old 01-14-2021, 6:06 AM
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Originally Posted by threeperreaper View Post

Now it's off to the store to see if I can't get these in my hand to try out...
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  #53  
Old 01-14-2021, 8:47 AM
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Springfield EMP ?

Metal gun, accurate and concealable.
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  #54  
Old 01-14-2021, 9:44 AM
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Get a second G19 in case something goes wrong with your primary.
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  #55  
Old 01-14-2021, 9:52 AM
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Metal frame = 1911
Polymer frame = Kahr P45

Sounds like you have 9mm covered.
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  #56  
Old 01-14-2021, 7:11 PM
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I kind of went the other route. The first time I got a permit, I went with a 19, a 26 and a Shield in 9mm. Because of the three gun limit, I went with basic and reliable. When I renewed, I went with 2 19s and the Shield, because the same reasons, but I found that I didn't carry the 26 at all the previous 2 years. Then they changed the rules. You could have a total of 6 on your permit. 2 weeks later it was up to unlimited on your permit. I currently hold the record for San Diego, with 10 guns on my permit. My original 3, because they are practical. And 7 more as a big FU to the state. 10mm, .45 GAP, 7.62 Tokarev, .32 H&R mag... I am highly unlikely to carry any of them regularly other than the 9s. But I added them because I could. My point here is you already have 2 guns that are incredibly practical. Make your 3rd choice something outrageous or weird. Get a Desert Eagle. Go with some obscure Glock that is on the roster. Have fun with it. You will probably end up carrying the Shield in any case. Make your last gun something ridiculous, just because you can.

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  #57  
Old 01-14-2021, 10:01 PM
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Whatever your third is, you've gotta make it freaking EPIC. and video the process. Some stupid AOW pistol or pistol lower without a stock. You know how they play;
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  #58  
Old 01-14-2021, 10:10 PM
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Check out Cz PCR too
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  #59  
Old 01-15-2021, 8:53 AM
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Meh..I find 3 guns a bit useless

G19 gen 5 with standard mags

Air weight .38

Carry g19 99% of time. Its not complicated
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  #60  
Old 01-15-2021, 8:55 AM
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Oh... I would of put my ar pistol in 5.56 with 10.5" barrel... but dam county says no rifle caliber pistols...: ( It would of been my glovebox caught in mostly peaceful highway march.
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  #61  
Old 01-27-2021, 4:28 PM
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mix it up. 2Ē 38sp revolver.


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  #62  
Old 01-27-2021, 4:50 PM
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Originally Posted by jstert View Post
mix it up. 2” 38sp revolver.


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Revolvers, especially small/light-weight "carry" revolvers are super difficult to shoot well and manage recoil.

Everyone wants one... until they rent one at their local range. Saying they are unpleasant to shoot, is an understatement.

Definitely not something I would recommend to a new CCW-er, let along a new gun owner period.
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  #63  
Old 01-27-2021, 5:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prerunners4life View Post
I was told by Oc sheriff when I received my ccw that if I legally acquired high cap mags (freedom week mags) I could carry over 10. So the info u have given is not true in Orange county.
What is allowed in OC doesn't mean it allowed everywhere.
Direct from the San Bernardino County CCW FAQ
Can I carry standard capacity magazines over 10 rounds with my CCW firearm?

No, at this time you are only allowed to carry a maximum of a 10-round magazine until further notice
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  #64  
Old 01-27-2021, 5:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by threeperreaper View Post
currently on permit is a shield 9mm and Glock 19
Both are great but looking to add a 3rd when it's time to renew
I know there are a lot of options, but I'm hoping to hear some recommendations that fit these criteria:

1. On CA roster
2. Price: <$2k
3. Caliber: any
4. Metal frame
5. Action: anything but a revolver*
6. Size: small or small-ish -- not too much smaller than a shield or not too much larger than a 19. Just generally a "compact" or "subcompact" size. Not too picky but no micro pistols or large guns. Maybe nothing larger than a G17 size. I'm open.
7. Something that YOU would be okay with carrying

The roster is actually quite limited if one removes variants. By “small”, I understand that to mean smaller and narrower than a Glock 19. Given the 10 round limit, and you want a smaller gun, then 9mm is probably the best choice since 40 S&W and 45 ACP can get too snappy in little guns.

The obvious choices are:

Glock 26, 27, 33, 36
HK P2000SK
Officers 1911 (ARMSCOR/RIA, and a few others)
Browning Hi Power MK III (carries more like a Glock 26 than a G19)
CZ 75 RAMI


Slightly smaller or shorter than a G19:
SIG P239 (taller than a G19 but slimmer and single stack)
SIG P6 (P225)
Springfield 1911 PX9801L
Springfield EMP


Notice I excluded Kahr. I have had very bad luck with them. My friends like their K9 and PM9 pistols.

On that list, I would choose either the Glock 26 or HK P2000SK despite having polymer frames.

The metal frame narrows your choices even further:

CZ 75 RAMI
SIG P239 (discontinued)
SIG P6 (good luck finding one and then you have to deal with the trigger)
Kahr K9 (good luck getting it working)
Springfield EMP
Springfield Officers (various models)


The Browning High Power MK III has been discontinued too. I really liked them and their grip carried better than a Glock 19. I would definitely carry one.

I noticed you mentione Glock 17. A 1911 Commander is a more concealable G17. A Commander with flush mag is the same height. The slide is slightly shorter. Dan Wesson Classic Bobtails are on the roster and cost less than $2k.

Note the size differences. The Commander hides better since the rear of the slide is different (hammer makes no difference). However, the DW is all steel and heavier.

https://www.handgunhero.com/tabletop...nder/glock-g17


Of the remaining guns, I would choose the EMP in 9mm. The EMP is still in production, can be debugged easily (I have one) and it is not a DA/SA action like the RAMI, P239, or P6. But, the EMP is G19 length but hides better due to the rear of slide profile. Keep in mind that 1911’s will have “1911 problems” and you will need to keep up on maintenance. I tend to avoid small 1911’s not made by Nighthawk, Wilson Combat and others due to reliability issues.

You should try an HK P2000SK. It is sort of between the Glock 19 and 26 in size and shoots like a larger gun. I have a HK P30SK Lite LEM model that is similar and absolutely fantastic. I think the P2000SK can be modified with the LEM trigger.

The king of carry on that list, in my opinion (which is free), is the Glock 26, with the HK P2000SK a close second. It needs only night sights and extra mags out of the box. It is very accurate and uber reliable.

My final list would be, in order:

1) Glock 26
2) HK P2000SK
3) Dan Wesson Classic Bobtail in 45
4) Springfield EMP 9mm

Last edited by tomrkba; 01-27-2021 at 5:49 PM..
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  #65  
Old 01-27-2021, 5:31 PM
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In order on my card
Glock 43
Glock 19
Glock 23
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  #66  
Old 01-27-2021, 6:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalRefuge View Post
Revolvers, especially small/light-weight "carry" revolvers are super difficult to shoot well and manage recoil.

Everyone wants one... until they rent one at their local range. Saying they are unpleasant to shoot, is an understatement.

Definitely not something I would recommend to a new CCW-er, let along a new gun owner period.

steel frame (not alloy). decent aftermarket grips. no +p, wadcutters (if you can find them). no mags to not fully insert. no slide to rack. no finicky ammo. cant go out of battery if pressed next to target in a close up tussle or fired through a pocket. any handgun is a learning exercise. simplest manual of arms. simplest to clean and clear. just practice. all handguns offer good attributes. nothing inherently wrong with revolvers except unsexy to some folks.


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  #67  
Old 01-27-2021, 7:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokerB View Post
Oh... I would of put my ar pistol in 5.56 with 10.5" barrel... but dam county says no rifle caliber pistols...: ( It would of been my glovebox caught in mostly peaceful highway march.
Is .45/70 a pistol a rifle round?? Just carry a bfr.
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  #68  
Old 01-27-2021, 8:44 PM
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Shield 9
Glock 42
Sig 365
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  #69  
Old 01-28-2021, 12:26 AM
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Kahr CM9/PM9 for the win!

Pretty much the same size as a Kahr P380, except the Kahr CM9/PM9 is roughly 1/2" longer, 1/8" thicker, and 6oz heavier, though for that you get 3.1" barrel 9mm stopping power vs a short 2.5" barreled .380.

Mag capacity is 6+1 flush or 7+1 extended, up-gradable to 7+1 flush/8+1 extended.

https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/...9-vs-kahr-p380

Last edited by DJD100; 01-28-2021 at 12:30 AM..
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