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  #1  
Old 05-15-2019, 12:48 PM
eric1911 eric1911 is offline
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Default California SIG P226

Planning to get a SIG P226.
Now I narrow down my choice to three versions
1. on-roster Scorpion
2. on-roster Extreme
3. off-roster Legion SA/DA
I need help from your guys to make decision.

As for the California Scorpion, what's the differences between the California Scorpion and the Emperor Scorpion?

Besides the finish and beaver tail, is there any other difference between Extreme and California Scorpion?

Based on my information, the California Scorpion and Extreme seem to have the same Short RESET Trigger, while the off-roster Legion has Short REACH Trigger. Both triggers have almost identical SA pull, but the Legion trigger is way better in DA pull. Is that right?

Besides the trigger, is there any other difference that makes Legion special?

I am more concerned about mechanical differences. The sight and grip differences are not important to me, as they can be easily changed.

Any input will be helpful.

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 05-15-2019, 1:18 PM
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Extreme has a short reach trigger. Scorpion has the standard 226 trigger. Not much of a difference beyond that other than the beaver tail.
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  #3  
Old 05-15-2019, 1:25 PM
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Make sure you shoot one first and are 100% confident you want one. Sigs arent for everybody. If you dont like them, you may have to sell the CA models at a steep steep discount to get rid of them. CA Sigs are not desireable.

Make sure you really want the short reach trigger over the standard. I hate the short reach triggers, they pinch my finger against the frame and also give a painful slapping sensation in DA. Maybe its better for people with really really abnormally small hands and short fingers. I would recommend the standard trigger if you have average size hands and fingers.
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  #4  
Old 05-15-2019, 2:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by California_Deplorable View Post
Make sure you shoot one first and are 100% confident you want one. Sigs arent for everybody. If you dont like them, you may have to sell the CA models at a steep steep discount to get rid of them. CA Sigs are not desireable.

Make sure you really want the short reach trigger over the standard. I hate the short reach triggers, they pinch my finger against the frame and also give a painful slapping sensation in DA. Maybe its better for people with really really abnormally small hands and short fingers. I would recommend the standard trigger if you have average size hands and fingers.
I have shoot MK25 and I am quite happy with it.
It's very hard to find a extreme or legion to try the Short reach trigger.
The CA scorpion has a short reset trigger, is that different from trigger of MK25?
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  #5  
Old 05-15-2019, 2:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric1911 View Post
I have shoot MK25 and I am quite happy with it.
It's very hard to find a extreme or legion to try the Short reach trigger.
The CA scorpion has a short reset trigger, is that different from trigger of MK25?
"Short reset" or SRT is different from "short reach". The SRT is all internal parts that allow for a very "short reset" as the name implies. The "short reach" trigger is the actual trigger itself and it is very thin and sits further back in the trigger guard so people with abnormally short fingers can reach it. Hence the name "short reach". I like a SRT with a standard (thicker) trigger. I dont know what the triggers are on the guns you are interested in.

Its very easy to visually identify if a gun has the "short reach" trigger. It looks really thin and sits back in the guard. And if you have normal size fingers it will pinch the crap out of your finger when you pull it.

You could always just replace the "short reach" trigger with a thicker one if it comes standard in the model you want and you dont like it. The standard triggers are pretty cheap like around $25.

FYI, The MK25 looks like it has the standard trigger.
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Last edited by California_Deplorable; 05-15-2019 at 2:51 PM..
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  #6  
Old 05-15-2019, 2:54 PM
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Before you buy one, shoot it in double action at the beginning of each string. You may quickly fall out of love with the idea of owning one.

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  #7  
Old 05-15-2019, 3:00 PM
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so are you buying brand new or used via transfer?
Sig changed from the PVD coating to cerakote recently, probably due to the inconsistent quality and wear with the original pvd coating.
new legions have the greyguns P-SAIT trigger.
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  #8  
Old 05-15-2019, 3:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by California_Deplorable View Post
"Short reset" or SRT is different from "short reach". The SRT is all internal parts that allow for a very "short reset" as the name implies. The "short reach" trigger is the actual trigger itself and it is very thin and sits further back in the trigger guard so people with abnormally short fingers can reach it. Hence the name "short reach". I like a SRT with a standard (thicker) trigger. I dont know what the triggers are on the guns you are interested in.

Its very easy to visually identify if a gun has the "short reach" trigger. It looks really thin and sits back in the guard. And if you have normal size fingers it will pinch the crap out of your finger when you pull it.

You could always just replace the "short reach" trigger with a thicker one if it comes standard in the model you want and you dont like it. The standard triggers are pretty cheap like around $25.

FYI, The MK25 looks like it has the standard trigger.
Very useful information!
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  #9  
Old 05-15-2019, 3:46 PM
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if you holster your gun you MUST train decocking before holstering. This is a must with any DA/SA without an external safety.

Legion and Scorpion both have beavertail but Legion is shaped a little different on the tail and you get a little higher grip on it. Both grips on them are Hogue so that may feel the same.

Legion is NOT worth the premium people are asking for here so don't even bother with it.

SRT trigger is a must for performance. On my finger the stock curve of the trigger really hurt so I put on an Armory Craft adjustable trigger on mine and it makes a world of difference with the SRT. Almost feels like a striker fire on SA.
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  #10  
Old 05-15-2019, 3:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protohyp View Post
if you holster your gun you MUST train decocking before holstering. This is a must with any DA/SA without an external safety.

Legion and Scorpion both have beavertail but Legion is shaped a little different on the tail and you get a little higher grip on it. Both grips on them are Hogue so that may feel the same.

Legion is NOT worth the premium people are asking for here so don't even bother with it.

SRT trigger is a must for performance. On my finger the stock curve of the trigger really hurt so I put on an Armory Craft adjustable trigger on mine and it makes a world of difference with the SRT. Almost feels like a striker fire on SA.


1000% agree - Legion is not worth the premium people are asking, not sure who if anyone is paying the crazy prices.

I have a non CA 226 with SRT and itís a joy to shoot


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  #11  
Old 05-15-2019, 4:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protohyp View Post
if you holster your gun you MUST train decocking before holstering. This is a must with any DA/SA without an external safety.

Legion and Scorpion both have beavertail but Legion is shaped a little different on the tail and you get a little higher grip on it. Both grips on them are Hogue so that may feel the same.

Legion is NOT worth the premium people are asking for here so don't even bother with it.

SRT trigger is a must for performance. On my finger the stock curve of the trigger really hurt so I put on an Armory Craft adjustable trigger on mine and it makes a world of difference with the SRT. Almost feels like a striker fire on SA.
Agree. Short reset trigger is a must for performance. So I narrow down my choices to these three.

What's the difference between CA Scorpion and non-CA model? LCI?
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  #12  
Old 05-15-2019, 4:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric1911 View Post
Agree. Short reset trigger is a must for performance. So I narrow down my choices to these three.



What's the difference between CA Scorpion and non-CA model? LCI?


Yes. Itís a mental thing more than anything knowing your supporting California laws more than anything. There are really no issues with LCIís and anything anyone makes up that it may cause malfunctions is purely lost. A lot of my striker fire guns have LCIís and they never caused issues. The problem with the SiG LCI is the laser etching thatís distracting.
If you ever wanted an optic on a slide see milling it for an RMR and it will get rid of any LCI markings.


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  #13  
Old 05-15-2019, 4:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric1911 View Post
Agree. Short reset trigger is a must for performance. So I narrow down my choices to these three.

What's the difference between CA Scorpion and non-CA model? LCI?
lci and mag disco (cannot fire without a magazine inserted)
you can actually remove both features after purchase, but the slot and printing on the slide will remain.
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  #14  
Old 05-15-2019, 4:35 PM
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Originally Posted by protohyp View Post
If you ever wanted an optic on a slide see milling it for an RMR and it will get rid of any LCI markings.

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i was going to do that for the slide on my P229 enhanced elite after talking to robert burke and finding out he would mill the ca slide.

i still wanted the basic iron sights option (more holster options) so i bought a non-califonia Xchange kit (perfectly legal).
added x-ray sights and g10 grips and this is my version of a p229 legion, without the wear prone pvd finish they used to use.
didn't really care about front serrations.

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Old 05-15-2019, 4:51 PM
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I would get an older one lightly used. Bought mine new in 1994.
No need to buy a new one. Great gun.
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  #16  
Old 05-15-2019, 4:55 PM
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Legion has X-Ray sights which is great! also the beaver tail is shorter.

I bought two sets of X-Ray sight because I like them so much. One went on my MK-25 and the other set (Front sight) went on my HD P226 .40s&w, the Rear sight went on my Wife's HD Combat P226.
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Old 05-15-2019, 4:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MCM View Post
I would get an older one lightly used. Bought mine new in 1994.
No need to buy a new one. Great gun.
got my first P226 in 1992.
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  #18  
Old 05-15-2019, 4:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protohyp View Post

SRT trigger is a must for performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eric1911 View Post
Agree. Short reset trigger is a must for performance.
Why?
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Old 05-15-2019, 5:00 PM
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Default California SIG P226

Quote:
Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
Why?


Who likes a long reset?

Itís a noticable difference running a bill drill with an SRT vs not


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Old 05-15-2019, 5:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protohyp View Post
Who likes a long reset?

Itís a noticable difference running a bill drill with an SRT vs not


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What's the difference in splits for you?
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Old 05-15-2019, 5:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
What's the difference in splits for you?


Noticable. Thatís all that matters. I donít need a clock to tell me that





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Old 05-15-2019, 5:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protohyp View Post
Noticable. Thatís all that matters. I donít need a clock to tell me that





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What kind of shot timer do you use?
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Old 05-15-2019, 5:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
What kind of shot timer do you use?


CE but what does that matter?

I feel it on my finger and the splits come close to matching the cadence that I perform M&P bill drills at.

If your trying to argue an SRT isnít worth it youíre going to fall on deaf ears here.


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  #24  
Old 05-15-2019, 5:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protohyp View Post
CE but what does that matter?

I feel it on my finger and the splits come close to matching the cadence that I perform M&P bill drills at.

If your trying to argue an SRT isnít worth it youíre going to fall on deaf ears here.


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What are your Bill Drills now?

I'm around 2.4 but haven't done any in awhile.
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Old 05-15-2019, 5:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
What are your Bill Drills now?

I'm around 2.4 but haven't done any in awhile.


I donít shoot bill drills for time. I shoot them for A Zone at 7 yards.

Each of my guns react differently because of polymer to metal ratio and felt impulse and recoil control. Putting on the SRT with the higher bore axis of my P226 has gotten it to feel close to my M&P which is my main rig


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Old 05-15-2019, 5:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protohyp View Post
I donít shoot bill drills for time. I shoot them for A Zone at 7 yards.
If you're not shooting a Bill Drill for time then you're just shooting 6 rounds, not a Bill Drill.

If time doesn't matter then it doesn't matter how long the reset is.
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Old 05-15-2019, 5:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
If you're not shooting a Bill Drill for time then you're just shooting 6 rounds, not a Bill Drill.

If time doesn't matter then it doesn't matter how long the reset is.


I disagree.

I shoot with a metronome every so often so I can hone in on cadence to when that gun is back down on target and I can get tighter groups. When I feel I can speed up the cadence then I up the metronome and check groupings again or adjust till groupings are better.


Again Iím not sure what your argument is for not using the SRT because it is absolutely for performance.




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  #28  
Old 05-15-2019, 5:20 PM
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The metronome is in your head.

A Bill Drill is a timed drill.

If you don't know what your splits are then a Short Reset Trigger is not "a must".
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  #29  
Old 05-15-2019, 5:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
The metronome is in your head.

A Bill Drill is a timed drill.

If you don't know what your splits are then a Short Reset Trigger is not "a must".


The bill drill isnít a timed drill. Itís as fast as you can press the trigger to get A zone hits and itís performance based depending on the skill of the shooter. Some people can shoot it in 5 seconds. Some in 1.5 seconds





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Old 05-15-2019, 5:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protohyp View Post
The bill drill isnít a timed drill. Itís as fast as you can press the trigger to get A zone hits and itís performance based depending on the skill of the shooter. Some people can shoot it in 5 seconds. Some in 1.5 seconds





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But you're not using a timer, remember? So by your own definition it's not a Bill Drill.

This is how you do cadences without a metronome.

https://youtu.be/tsO4KC-XmAI
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  #31  
Old 05-15-2019, 5:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
But you're not using a timer, remember? So by your own definition it's not a Bill Drill.

This is how you do cadences without a metronome.

https://youtu.be/tsO4KC-XmAI


Man I get it. I do cadence how I do cadence because Iím a musician and a drummer. Plenty of pro drummers donít need metronomes because they have groove. Same applies to shooting. This is what I feel comfortable and the performance of my gun.

Iím not anal enough to look at splits because I prefer to listen to what the gun tells me and how to adjust to it to get shots on target. If that isnít a bill drill then so be it.

But youíre arguing that reset distance has nothing to do with pressing the trigger faster? You lost me. I just posted in my Instagram shooting an M&P with apex vs FN 509 stock reset and cadence is definitely noticable.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BxSsusKH...=1ow22dlw58is7


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  #32  
Old 05-15-2019, 5:42 PM
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I prefer to listen to what the gun tells me and how to adjust to it to get shots on target.
I'm not the Cadence Whisperer.

I guess I'm dumb.

I use a timer to give me concrete, objective feedback of my shooting to track progress.
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Old 05-15-2019, 5:52 PM
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I'm not the Cadence Whisperer.

I guess I'm dumb.

I use a timer to give me concrete, objective feedback of my shooting to track progress.


I freeze frame video of me shooting and measure the distance among the cases. Haha


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  #34  
Old 05-15-2019, 6:33 PM
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Why?


The SRT is a small upgrade yet BIG improvement.
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Old 05-15-2019, 6:35 PM
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The SRT is a small upgrade yet BIG improvement.
How?
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Old 05-15-2019, 6:37 PM
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How?


See above.

Very short reset, less disruptive to the gun, much quicker follow-ups, wouldnít run without it.
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Old 05-15-2019, 6:40 PM
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See above.

Very short reset, less disruptive to the gun, much quicker follow-ups, wouldnít run without it.
Do you own a shot timer and have access to a range where you can shoot 4 shots in a second?

If not it doesn't matter.
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Old 05-15-2019, 7:47 PM
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Do you own a shot timer and have access to a range where you can shoot 4 shots in a second?

If not it doesn't matter.
Yes and Yes.

Enjoy your evening.
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Old 05-15-2019, 7:51 PM
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Before you buy one, shoot it in double action at the beginning of each string. You may quickly fall out of love with the idea of owning one.

https://sobtactical.com/about/
+1 this. I have a P226 Scorpion Elite that I bought because i had been lusting after a top-class, all-metal combat pistol for a really long time.

I have never been so disappointed in a gun.

It literally doesn't do anything that my $499 Glock 19 doesn't do better, faster, more comfortably, and just as accurately. My $505+transfer Beretta 92G has a better trigger pull in both DA and SA.

The P226 is a completely mediocre pistol and Sig is charging a massive premium just based on their marketing. Even if you really do want a Sig, a Scorpion Elite will run you $1149 at any Sig dealer, where at the same dealer you can get a Beretta or CZ of equal quality for $600.

Don't get me wrong--I still take my P226 to the range sometimes, and sometimes I sit at home and fondle it just for gun. It's a beautiful, well-made pistol.

But that's about all it's good for.
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Old 05-15-2019, 7:52 PM
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Yes and Yes.



Enjoy your evening.
What are your Bill Drills with your SRT gun vs non SRT guns?
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