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  #1  
Old 08-12-2019, 8:07 PM
hella agg hella agg is offline
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Default Barnwood Arms (Ripon, CA) requires a passport for a handgun PPT in lieu of non-FDL ID

Context: I am selling a handgun I legally own to a friend. Barnwood Arms in Ripon, CA was the FFL of choice, and they stated that they will require either a passport or a REAL ID.
  • I do not have a REAL ID (since my current ID is not expired).
  • My passport recently expired (in the process of renewing).
  • I own a CDL that does not have FDL on it (Federal Limits Apply) - the rear of the ID states 'RESTRICTIONS: None'
  • I am an American citizen - born here.
I did a bit of searching, and I can't find too much info for the requirements of a seller - just the buyer.

Are they just being cautious? I realize they are a private business, and can choose to refuse any transfers that they are not comfortable with. I'll leave them anonymous for the time being.

Thanks ahead of time for any input.

EDIT: I reached out to Barnwood Arms directly today (08/13/19) - they have confirmed that an oldschool CDL (non-FLA) will not work for a PPT from the seller's side at their store. I believe that they are free to conduct business as they choose fit, but would like the community to be aware of their conditions.

Last edited by hella agg; 08-14-2019 at 11:54 AM..
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Old 08-12-2019, 8:12 PM
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Find another FFL. I have been doing transfers regularly and recently with an old school D/L, non-FLA non-REAL ID.

It was good enough for 30+ years of buying firearms and nothing has changed to make it any less valid.
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Old 08-12-2019, 8:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Find another FFL. I have been doing transfers regularly and recently with an old school D/L, non-FLA non-REAL ID.

It was good enough for 30+ years of buying firearms and nothing has changed to make it any less valid.
^^^^^^Yes, find another FFL that has their sht together.
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Old 08-12-2019, 8:43 PM
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^^^ 3rd this!
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Old 08-12-2019, 9:00 PM
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and please consider publishing their name so others can avoid the same hassle.
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Old 08-12-2019, 9:17 PM
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Thanks for the input all - I'll refrain from throwing their name out there until I confirm myself. I'll be giving them a call tomorrow, and will report back to this thread.
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  #7  
Old 08-12-2019, 9:55 PM
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You can use a birth certificate as well. You'll need it to get the Real ID anyway. I had to order 'em for all 5 family members, not cheap, but...

I suspect that the CADOJ may be hassling FFLs, Turner's just recently changed their policy from being able to take the FLA licenses to requiring additional proof (that passport, birth certificate, or a few other docs). Check the "information" drop down on their site. The additional requirements are consistent with a memo from (DOJ or ATF?) sometime late last year, the additional requirements were supposed to be ONLY if there is some suspicion about the party presenting the FLA license, but I'm guessing that the DOJ has decided to crack down to the detriment of anyone stuck with the "old" license.

For Turner's to have changed to the tighter interpretation on what documents you have to present makes me suspect that the DOJ rattled their cage.

Funny thing, you need that birth certificate to get that Real ID.... I had to present my FLA license info to get the birth certificate, so I could get my Real ID... sigh, only in government does this make sense.
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Old 08-12-2019, 9:57 PM
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And FWIW, they SHOULD be OK with the old ID from the SELLER, it's the BUYER that has to have his or her "papers" in order.
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Old 08-12-2019, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DB> View Post
but I'm guessing that the DOJ has decided to crack down to the detriment of anyone stuck with the "old" license.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DB> View Post
And FWIW, they SHOULD be OK with the old ID from the SELLER, it's the BUYER that has to have his or her "papers" in order.
The unexpired old school DL is fine. I've bought many guns (including Turner's and else where) using my unexpired OLD SCHOOL DL this year, last year and year before that and year before the year before that.

Last edited by sfe187; 08-12-2019 at 10:42 PM..
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  #10  
Old 08-12-2019, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DB> View Post
but I'm guessing that the DOJ has decided to crack down to the detriment of anyone stuck with the "old" license.

For Turner's to have changed to the tighter interpretation on what documents you have to present makes me suspect that the DOJ rattled their cage.
Turners took my old school DL last week, not a problem. No hoops or extra docs. Just drivers license and CCW, done.
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Old 08-13-2019, 5:50 AM
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I just did a PPT this weekend. I do not have a Real ID. My current CDL was fine.


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  #12  
Old 08-13-2019, 6:30 AM
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Last I heard you only need a real ID to buy ammo, not a gun. As the seller you should be fine either way.
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  #13  
Old 08-13-2019, 6:43 AM
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The DOJ changed the rules to; IF you have a “federal limits applies” or federally non-compliant ID/DL, a birth certificate or passport (or certain documents for naturalized citizens and immigrants) must be retained by photocopy. Old ID or Real ID are fine.
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  #14  
Old 08-13-2019, 7:11 AM
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What's the name of rhe place that we need to avoid?
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Old 08-13-2019, 8:43 AM
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^^^Me Too..

Inquiring minds want to know....
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Last edited by BrunRox; 08-13-2019 at 8:43 AM.. Reason: added text
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  #16  
Old 08-13-2019, 9:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalRT View Post
Last I heard you only need a real ID to buy ammo, not a gun. As the seller you should be fine either way.
I believe that was proposed just prior to the ammo law going into effect. Newsom stated REAL ID was required, and the DOJ corrected him.

While touting California’s gun control policies, Gov. Gavin Newsom said Tuesday that residents would need Real IDs or equivalent documents to buy ammunition next month.

Minutes later, the California Department of Justice contradicted him, clarifying that there would be no Real ID requirement as part of new firearm and ammunition regulations taking effect July 1.
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  #17  
Old 08-13-2019, 7:16 PM
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The original post has been updated after confirmation of the credentials necessary.
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  #18  
Old 08-13-2019, 7:22 PM
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Yesterday morning I completed the online application, walked into the DMV with the documents they requested (birth certificate, SS card, water bill and truck registration), didn’t have an appointment, and was done in just shy under an hour. Didn’t cost me anything because I did my mail renewal earlier in the year.

Yes they’re being extra cautious, because they like having jobs and selling guns.

Just go get the happy bear stamp and move forward.
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Old 08-13-2019, 7:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plumbum View Post
Yesterday morning I completed the online application, walked into the DMV with the documents they requested (birth certificate, SS card, water bill and truck registration), didn’t have an appointment, and was done in just shy under an hour. Didn’t cost me anything because I did my mail renewal earlier in the year.

Yes they’re being extra cautious, because they like having jobs and selling guns.

Just go get the happy bear stamp and move forward.
And I will as well! As soon as it is necessary. My CDL will not expire for a year+. It's been quite the process at the DMV here in the SF Bay Area, but it sounds like it's not so bad now. Thanks for the tip about the online application.

I have no qualms with them being extra careful, especially in our state and in this time. However, I am just passing on the facts for anybody that may have similar circumstances.
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Old 08-13-2019, 8:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hella agg View Post
The original post has been updated after confirmation of the credentials necessary.
Thank you for posting the name.
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Old 08-13-2019, 9:42 PM
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I don't patronize gun shops that add extra bs to the sale, purchase, or transfer process. It's playing into the Commies' hands.
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  #22  
Old 08-13-2019, 9:47 PM
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Most of the ffl in and around livermore have been requiring passports or some other documentation if you had the federal limits apply. I was fine with my old drivers license till it expired last month. I now have a license with federal limits apply on it , so I brought my passport . Ppt a nice shotgun today.
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Old 08-13-2019, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
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I don't patronize gun shops that add extra bs to the sale, purchase, or transfer process. It's playing into the Commies' hands.
^^^ THIS
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  #24  
Old 08-14-2019, 12:34 AM
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Sounds to me like they are trying to make a PPT more difficult. I'm guessing the minimal profit has a lot to do with it.
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Old 08-14-2019, 7:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plumbum View Post

Yes they’re being extra cautious, because they like having jobs and selling guns.

Just go get the happy bear stamp and move forward.

BS. So if they wanted to have you wait, say a cooling down period before they'll sell you ammo, would you be ok with that as well? I mean that would just be being extra cautious. How about a psych eval before you can buy a gun? Someone can justify a whole lotta "extra" if they're doing it "to be cautious"

Quote:
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I don't patronize gun shops that add extra bs to the sale, purchase, or transfer process.
THIS. If you can't manage to understand the rules.....maybe you shouldn't be playing the game. And if you understand the rules and add on EXTRA requirements then maybe you shouldn't be selling GUNS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeywrench View Post
Sounds to me like they are trying to make a PPT more difficult. I'm guessing the minimal profit has a lot to do with it.
I would be surprised if this didn't play into it somehow.
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Old 08-14-2019, 8:50 AM
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I have a passport with an illegal alien drivers license. No problems.
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Old 08-14-2019, 9:06 AM
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Barnwood's is a great store. I can't believe in this day and age, people don't have a RealID and passport.
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Old 08-14-2019, 9:08 AM
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Barnwood's is a great store. I can't believe in this day and age, people don't have a RealID and passport.
Believe it.
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Old 08-14-2019, 9:10 AM
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Im a big fan of that ffl.
Their used selection is generally fantastic.
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Old 08-14-2019, 9:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citation650 View Post
Barnwood's is a great store. I can't believe in this day and age, people don't have a RealID and passport.
Many don't fly or travel out of the country and many old school ID does not expired till 2021 or 2022 why would many want to (1) give more $ to CA (2) get caught up to DMV's cluster f of handling this real ID disaster upgrade. Haven't you heard of all the f ups dmv pulled already?

If these clowns wants to add self induced "extra layer of protection" or avoid doing ppts indirectly, then they are ABSOLUTELY NOT a great store.

Their actions are noted. Will not do business there.
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Old 08-14-2019, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
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BS. So if they wanted to have you wait, say a cooling down period before they'll sell you ammo, would you be ok with that as well? I mean that would just be being extra cautious. How about a psych eval before you can buy a gun? Someone can justify a whole lotta "extra" if they're doing it "to be cautious"



THIS. If you can't manage to understand the rules.....maybe you shouldn't be playing the game. And if you understand the rules and add on EXTRA requirements then maybe you shouldn't be selling GUNS.



I would be surprised if this didn't play into it somehow.
So you’d help to drive a local gun shop out of business?
Yeah... sounds like a great plan to show those Sacramento jerks what you feel.
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Old 08-14-2019, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plumbum View Post
So you’d help to drive a local gun shop out of business?

Yeah... sounds like a great plan to show those Sacramento jerks what you feel.
It is a choice that the gun shop is making. They are adding unnecessary requirements. If they don't want to go out of business, they shouldn't make things more difficult or complicated for customers.
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Old 08-14-2019, 11:39 AM
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To be clear: I did not intend on starting any type of debate. I believe it is the business' right to run their operation as they deem fit. I do not believe they are spreading FUD - it seems like they are protecting their business, and themselves in turn. As the majority of us know, it's quite a sensitive time.

That said, I also believe that it should be known to the community what their requirements are for this particular scenario (PPT transfer).

I appreciate the feedback and comments, and the confirmation that their requirements for conducting a PPT do not align completely with what current legislature requires.

After all, we are all free to carry ourselves and/or entities as we choose to do so, as long as we are abiding by the law.

Last edited by hella agg; 08-14-2019 at 11:41 AM..
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  #34  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citation650 View Post
Barnwood's is a great store. I can't believe in this day and age, people don't have a RealID and passport.

When I went to get my real I’d, brought everything but my ssn. Forgot it. But I have a current passport
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We're trying to exercise a constitutional right and stay out of jail doing it. Cheers to those who help us, jeers to those who stand in our way - you're literally no better than DeLeon or Pelosi. If you catch a bad wrap for making this harder than it has to be, I have no sympathy if you end up on the boycott list.
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Old 08-14-2019, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citation650 View Post
Barnwood's is a great store. I can't believe in this day and age, people don't have a RealID and passport.
I have never been there, and it is unlikely I ever will (due mostly to distance). I do not doubt that they are a great store. However, I am seeking facts, but your opinion is welcome.

As many have already mentioned - we all have different circumstances that make each of us unique. I have no need to renew my ID (and my passport is now in the renewal process). My passport recently expired. It's a bit funny - only one page of my (expired) passport isn't filled with border control / visa stamps from various countries.
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Old 08-15-2019, 12:04 PM
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Barnwood is a great shop. They have ordered exactly what I want in ammo and pistols. Took a shotgun of mine on consignment that they knew would take forever to sell. Great service.

With that said, they have always been overly conservative. They do not chase any short term loopholes to make some quick cash. They are focused on keeping a multi-generation store in business for the long run. California is crazy and they know that they are a target. They didn't do SSE, bullet button rifles or any other work arounds. It is not who they are.
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Old 08-15-2019, 2:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pointerman View Post
Barnwood is a great shop. They have ordered exactly what I want in ammo and pistols. Took a shotgun of mine on consignment that they knew would take forever to sell. Great service.



With that said, they have always been overly conservative. They do not chase any short term loopholes to make some quick cash. They are focused on keeping a multi-generation store in business for the long run. California is crazy and they know that they are a target. They didn't do SSE, bullet button rifles or any other work arounds. It is not who they are.
Not mandating a Real ID is not a loophole. And mandating a real ID means that they should lose business because of their restrictive business choices.
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Old 08-15-2019, 6:16 PM
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Quote:
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Barnwood is a great shop.
I agree 100%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pointerman View Post
They didn't do SSE, bullet button rifles or any other work arounds. It is not who they are.
I bought two bullet button rifles there.
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