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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 06-20-2019, 7:00 PM
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Kestryll Kestryll is offline
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Originally Posted by Python6357 View Post
I'd like to ask why it is that you keep singling me out? In the other threads, I was banned twice even though I don't feel I broke any rules. Even so, several others, including Ja308, were throwing just as many insults. One member even said the exact same thing I was banned for, but none of them are banned. Last time you banned me for suggesting that you ban people you disagree with, which is quite ironic. Ja308 suggested that black people and non-religious people are immoral and shouldn't be allowed to own guns, yet you don't ban him? That's disgusting. So I ask, what is your problem? It's pretty sad that in a day where social media is constantly censoring us, we aren't even allowed to exercise our freedom of speech on a 2A forum that supposedly supports the constitution. We are all supposedly adults here, and yet we are treated like delicate children. Literally no other firearm forum would ban people for the bogus stuff you do. This forum, much like this communist state of ours, seems to enjoy censoring people it doesn't like or agree with. I'm sure you'll ban me for calling you out, which will just prove my point.

Let me give you a hint, if you're finding yourself 'singled out' when I call people on either breaking the rules or being uncivil, try not breaking the rules and try acting like a civil adult.

If you weren't so busy trying to be the victim you'd have noticed I called out ja308 as well wouldn't you?

I don't have a problem, I'm actually rather happy to be honest if a little hungry.
You however seem to have an issue with the fact that we have rules, you don't have to like them but you WILL abide by them or, by your own choices not some fantasy victimization, you'll be banned.

*sigh* the I want my freedom of speech' stuff again...
This is not a government run web site, it is a privately owned site paid for by me.
The First Amendment, where your freedom of speech is secured, applies strictly to the government and protects you from government suppression of said speech.
Having, and applying, rules on a private venue does not have anything to do with your freedom of speech, anymore than my 1A rights allow me to come in to your living room and start shouting obscenities at your children.

This forum has had rules regarding civility and staying both family and workplace friendly since you were 5 years old, we're not changing that now because you have a problem acting like an adult and abiding by the rules.

If you get banned the only point that will be proven is that you're incapable of both following the same rules 305,000 other member manage to follow and of learning.

So go ahead, let's see your rant and the scope of your invective vocabulary. You're not unique or special I've seen hundreds of you over the last two decades or more so if you're going to 'go out is a blaze of fire and glory' make it quick I've got plans tonight with my Wife.
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  #42  
Old 06-20-2019, 7:02 PM
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Let me add again. We need a strong NRA to keep what few rights we still have. As members, we must demand transparency and excellence. We are the NRA, not Wayne. Not Chris. Not Ollie.
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  #43  
Old 06-20-2019, 7:13 PM
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Originally Posted by eta34 View Post
No problem. Your forum, your rules. Most of us here want the NRA to be transparent and the best it can be. Healthy criticism is something we all should allow and encourage.
I agree, we need the NRA to be whole, healthy and fighting for us. This infighting is BS and needs to stop.
Criticism is fine, frankly as much as I like Wayne, if you've ever spoken with him and/or heard him speak in person you'd know he really does have a solid heart for 2aA rights, I think there's some issues he needs to address publicly.
The problem is thre area several people who have a vested financial interest, on our own side, in seeing a weak or even absent NRA and are using this current mess to push that agenda.
That is not fine at all.


My criticism of JA308 is warranted. He has repeatedly spouted anti-2a sentiment and implied that only white Christian Republicans should possess guns. That attitude should be highly offensive to anyone who believes in the 2a. I’m not here to bash the NRA. I believe it is our best bet in the fight, but it can certainly improve. I am, however, willing to expose people like JA308 who advocate disarming fellow Americans.
To be honest nearly all of what I've seen of ja308 is darn near fanatical defense of the NRA, to be blunt almost to the point of blindness.

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Originally Posted by Python6357 View Post
I agree. Some seem to think we want to see the NRA fall, and that isn't the case. We want it fixed so that it can be as effective as possible. We want it to be a very real and serious threat to the anti 2A crowd, and not just appear to be one.
On this we agree but as I said to eta, there are some 'on our side' who DO want to see the NRA fall.
They want the recognition, spotlight and yes money that comes with the idea of 'filling the void' after the NRA is gone. Harsh words I know but that doesn't make them less true.


Frankly if I had my way with this latest dust up I'd take both Wayne and Chris in to a small room with a sap and tell them 'You're working this out so we can get back to real 2A issues or you're both going home as walking bruises.'
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  #44  
Old 06-20-2019, 7:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post


Frankly if I had my way with this latest dust up I'd take both Wayne and Chris in to a small room with a sap and tell them 'You're working this out so we can get back to real 2A issues or you're both going home as walking bruises.'
I feel like it's going to take more than that at this point. We need new leadership, a new board, and new policy. I think term limits are a must, and in my opinion, the NRA should be releasing quarterly reports on how donations are being used. The board is way to big, and has way too much power. Unfortunately, it seems the current leadership would rather bleed the NRA dry than reform. In the mean time, I'm donating to other 2A organizations until the NRA can get their act together. I'm hoping it's sooner rather than later because the threat to the 2A is only getting more severe as time goes on.
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  #45  
Old 06-20-2019, 7:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Let me give you a hint, if you're finding yourself 'singled out' when I call people on either breaking the rules or being uncivil, try not breaking the rules and try acting like a civil adult.

If you weren't so busy trying to be the victim you'd have noticed I called out ja308 as well wouldn't you?

I don't have a problem, I'm actually rather happy to be honest if a little hungry.
You however seem to have an issue with the fact that we have rules, you don't have to like them but you WILL abide by them or, by your own choices not some fantasy victimization, you'll be banned.

*sigh* the I want my freedom of speech' stuff again...
This is not a government run web site, it is a privately owned site paid for by me.
The First Amendment, where your freedom of speech is secured, applies strictly to the government and protects you from government suppression of said speech.
Having, and applying, rules on a private venue does not have anything to do with your freedom of speech, anymore than my 1A rights allow me to come in to your living room and start shouting obscenities at your children.

This forum has had rules regarding civility and staying both family and workplace friendly since you were 5 years old, we're not changing that now because you have a problem acting like an adult and abiding by the rules.

If you get banned the only point that will be proven is that you're incapable of both following the same rules 305,000 other member manage to follow and of learning.

So go ahead, let's see your rant and the scope of your invective vocabulary. You're not unique or special I've seen hundreds of you over the last two decades or more so if you're going to 'go out is a blaze of fire and glory' make it quick I've got plans tonight with my Wife.
I don't feel as though I broke any rules, but if I did, I accept the consequences. The things I said were not meant to be hostile, it's simply how most people talk nowadays. My issue is that I'm the only one who was banned. Others have said the same, or even worse things than I and no one else was banned. I merely want things to be fair and equal. If I get banned for something, others should get banned if they do it too.
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  #46  
Old 06-20-2019, 7:45 PM
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For the record I do agree with John Adams that our constitution is made only for a religious moral people.

I disagree with some who have implied that only white people can be religious or moral.

So those of you who are attacking me for siding with John Adams, show a little tolerance and try to become what Adams said is needed for freedom.The enemy's of RKBA know very well a society of immoral, religion hating people are very easy to conquer.

Those who favor term limits should begin to think it through and look at the nightmare horror show Californians created when they fell for the term limits nonsense.


As for the NRA and this New York Times made up controversy. Smart educated people dismiss propaganda from the sworn enemies of freedom. Believing anything in the New York Times is exactly the same as early militiamen believing the English press about why Pitcairn was sent to disarm the colonists.

I fully support Wayne La Pierre, Chris Cox and the BOD So much so Im looking forward to upgrading to Patron member next convention in Nashville . Not because the lapel pin looks great on my Armani suit but because I believe in our NRA leaders.( OK maybe the pin has a little to do with it!)
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Last edited by ja308; 06-20-2019 at 7:51 PM..
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  #47  
Old 06-20-2019, 7:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
For the record I do agree with John Adams that our constitution is made only for a religious moral people.

I disagree with some who have implied that only white people can be religious or moral.

So those of you who are attacking me for siding with John Adams, show a little tolerance and try to become what Adams said is needed for freedom.The enemy's of RKBA know very well a society of immoral, religion hating people are very easy to conquer.

Those who favor term limits should begin to think it through and look at the nightmare horror show Californians created when they fell for the term limits nonsense.


As for the NRA and this New York Times made up controversy. I fully support Wayne La Pierre, Chris Cox and the BOD So much so Im looking forward to upgrading to Patron member next convention in Nashville . Not because the lapel pin looks great on my Armani suit but because I believe in our leaders.
And what exactly would that be? I see no downside to term limits. It ensures that if a corrupt individual is in power(like now), they cannot remain in power forever. What if we had no presidential term limits and Obama was allowed to stay in office for 20 years? That would be terrible, and this is no different. I also feel as though they should be releasing how many votes each candidates get. The board should be limited as well. 70+ people on a board for a non-profit is ridiculous, it should be between 15-30 at most, with 4 year term limits. They should be required to show up for meetings as well, which many on the board currently can't even be bothered to do so.
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  #48  
Old 06-20-2019, 8:28 PM
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We have term limits, its called work to get the person out and it used to work. See Tom Foley and every Oklahoma democrat who voted for the AWban voted out and fired .

Term limits destroyed california by eliminating smart , principled statesman politicians who knew how to poison democrat bills to where they were withdrawn or defeated. Think Don Rogers and Dick Mountjoy and many other GOP heroes.

Term limits embolden democrat politicians who planned on making a career out of the elected position. At one time they were afraid to face organized campaigns against them and would be prudent in offering anti gun legislation, with term limits they now say Im termed anyway and look toward some scumbag trust or foundation or media job.

Term limits created a system where the really bad ones got termed and then were appointed to cushy bureaucratic jobs and their replacement was exactly like they were. Or they moved into other more powerful position. Check out Darrel steinberg for example.

Presidential term limits are flawed as well. Obama could have been beaten in a fair election and would have lost eventually. Actually w/o term limits we would still have W who did lots for the gun culture.

Should we extend term limits to other jobs too ? How about a mechanic or dentist?

All in all term limits remove the very best and the garbage gets replaced with garbage. If you don't believe me, give a few examples where scumbag dems were replaced with either decent dems or republicans !

Our problem is too many really ignorant and even very stupid people are encouraged to vote. I think it was Obamas 1st election cycle when I waited in line to vote. I noticed who was voting and one very dimwitted dem was still there after I finished! At least 20 minutes !!!!! I said isn't there a time limit. ( This moron did not have a clue except Obama)
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Last edited by ja308; 06-20-2019 at 8:37 PM..
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  #49  
Old 06-20-2019, 8:48 PM
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We have term limits, its called work to get the person out and it used to work. See Tom Foley and every Oklahoma democrat who voted for the AWban voted out and fired .

Term limits destroyed california by eliminating smart , principled statesman politicians who knew how to poison democrat bills to where they were withdrawn or defeated. Think Don Rogers and Dick Mountjoy and many other GOP heroes.

Term limits embolden democrat politicians who planned on making a career out of the elected position. At one time they were afraid to face organized campaigns against them and would be prudent in offering anti gun legislation, with term limits they now say Im termed anyway and look toward some scumbag trust or foundation or media job.

Term limits created a system where the really bad ones got termed and then were appointed to cushy bureaucratic jobs and their replacement was exactly like they were. Or they moved into other more powerful position. Check out Darrel steinberg for example.

Presidential term limits are flawed as well. Obama could have been beaten in a fair election and would have lost eventually. Actually w/o term limits we would still have W who did lots for the gun culture.

Should we extend term limits to other jobs too ? How about a mechanic or dentist?

All in all term limits remove the very best and the garbage gets replaced with garbage. If you don't believe me, give a few examples where scumbag dems were replaced with either decent dems or republicans !
I fail to see how term limits help democrats any more than republicans. W. definitely wouldn't still be in office, he was terrible. Term limits ensure that no one stays in power too long, and without them, we'd just devolve into a corrupt dictatorship. And no, mechanics shouldn't have term limits, but they don't have power over people or policy. Your comparison is non-nonsensical. The NRA is supposed to be an organization that works for the people that support it. The problem is, much like our government, it is highly corrupt and only works for itself. With Wayne and his current board or cronies, nothing can ever change because they wont let it, and they will never leave their positions because they don't have to.
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  #50  
Old 06-20-2019, 8:51 PM
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Bloomberg preemptive campaign before the election year continues. Demonize and discredit NRA so that their enforcements are less effective.

Plenty of useful idiots to target.
Nailed it on post #3.
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  #51  
Old 06-20-2019, 8:54 PM
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I'd like to ask why it is that you keep singling me out?
Maybe try a little introspection?
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  #52  
Old 06-20-2019, 9:11 PM
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I fail to see how term limits help democrats any more than republicans. W. definitely wouldn't still be in office, he was terrible. Term limits ensure that no one stays in power too long, and without them, we'd just devolve into a corrupt dictatorship. And no, mechanics shouldn't have term limits, but they don't have power over people or policy. Your comparison is non-nonsensical. The NRA is supposed to be an organization that works for the people that support it. The problem is, much like our government, it is highly corrupt and only works for itself. With Wayne and his current board or cronies, nothing can ever change because they wont let it, and they will never leave their positions because they don't have to.


You have failed to answer the question of how Californians are better off with term limits.
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  #53  
Old 06-20-2019, 9:17 PM
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You have failed to answer the question of how Californians are better off with term limits.
Would you like Newscum to be governor for the rest of his life? CA isn't a good example because the results are the same for the most part. The dems will control this state no matter what. That being said, thanks to term limits, it is still possible to get a slightly less terrible candidate.
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  #54  
Old 06-20-2019, 9:25 PM
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Term limits are at best a double edged sword.
While bad politicians are kept from holding office forever good politicians are removed just as equally. Not to mention they are of limited use because the politician may change but the staffers who do most of the real work remain the same. All that changes is who signs their checks.

California has shown us that the politicians who desire power, authority and money will always find a way to suck on the 'public service' teat.
They don't go away they just bounce around to different offices, Senate, House, State Office, back to Senate, lather, rinse, repeat.

For term limits to have any value in limiting time in office they need to apply to ALL elected positions. Served your term limits in the State Senate, you can't run for any other office again.

Another down side is by the time our lobbyists build a relationship with an elected official and educate them they're termed out and all that time and effort has to be covered again.
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  #55  
Old 06-20-2019, 9:32 PM
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Term limits are at best a double edged sword.
While bad politicians are kept from holding office forever good politicians are removed just as equally. Not to mention they are of limited use because the politician may change but the staffers who do most of the real work remain the same. All that changes is who signs their checks.

California has shown us that the politicians who desire power, authority and money will always find a way to suck on the 'public service' teat.
They don't go away they just bounce around to different offices, Senate, House, State Office, back to Senate, lather, rinse, repeat.

For term limits to have any value in limiting time in office they need to apply to ALL elected positions. Served your term limits in the State Senate, you can't run for any other office again.

Another down side is by the time our lobbyists build a relationship with an elected official and educate them they're termed out and all that time and effort has to be covered again.
I agree, term limits should apply to all offices. It is a double edged sword, but I do think we are better off with them than without.
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  #56  
Old 06-20-2019, 9:42 PM
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I feel like it's going to take more than that at this point. We need new leadership, a new board, .
A new leadership, yes; but a new board -- how will that fix the problem when there was so little interest by NRA members about the board members to begin with? The majority of elections, on CalGuns I was surprised about the lack of posting on the subject. A smaller board is also needed, as another poster suggested. But NRA members caring about the board more is the key.
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  #57  
Old 06-20-2019, 9:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
...As for the NRA and this New York Times made up controversy. Smart educated people dismiss propaganda from the sworn enemies of freedom. Believing anything in the New York Times is exactly the same as early militiamen believing the English press about why Pitcairn was sent to disarm the colonists...
See Post #33 above.

See Post #61 in this thread.

See this thread.

Short version - The 'spin' may be questioned, but the report is based on FACT and is not a 'made up' controversy. Most reports are derivative of The New York Times article. However, that article is based on an actual court filing and quotes they got from Cox and Arulanandam.

If you'd prefer The Daily Caller, something not a bastion of Liberalism?

Quote:
Cox has been placed on administrative leave pending an investigation, as was his top aide, Scott Christman, NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam told The NYT.
As I noted, I can't find an official statement by the NRA or NRA-ILA about the Cox suspension. But, if they got the quotes from Cox and Arulanandam, then I'll go with that for now.

As I've said before, there's nothing wrong with defending the NRA. The problem you're having is that you keep making demonstrably false declarations. Or, as Kestryll noted above...

Quote:
To be honest nearly all of what I've seen of ja308 is darn near fanatical defense of the NRA, to be blunt almost to the point of blindness.
Defend the NRA. Unspin the spin. But, don't deny reality in that doing so undermines any defense you present.

Last edited by TrappedinCalifornia; 06-20-2019 at 9:50 PM..
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  #58  
Old 06-20-2019, 9:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Creeping Incrementalism View Post
A new leadership, yes; but a new board -- how will that fix the problem when there was so little interest by NRA members about the board members to begin with? The majority of elections, on CalGuns I was surprised about the lack of posting on the subject. A smaller board is also needed, as another poster suggested. But NRA members caring about the board more is the key.
Yes, members do need to care more about voting for board members. I feel like some may not understand the importance of having a good BOD. Currently, there's pretty much 2 different boards in the NRA. There's the executive board who gets to do whatever they want, and is filled with Wayne's cronies who cover up his spending and back whatever he wants. Then there is the rest of the board, which at this point are kept in the dark, and are pretty much useless. I personally feel like positions on the board should be volunteer, though I could see why some may not agree with that. If these people truly care about the 2A and restoring people's rights, they should be willing to take a small paycheck or better yet, no paycheck, to allow the organization to have as much money as possible.
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
To be honest nearly all of what I've seen of ja308 is darn near fanatical defense of the NRA, to be blunt almost to the point of blindness.


On this we agree but as I said to eta, there are some 'on our side' who DO want to see the NRA fall.
They want the recognition, spotlight and yes money that comes with the idea of 'filling the void' after the NRA is gone. Harsh words I know but that doesn't make them less true.


Frankly if I had my way with this latest dust up I'd take both Wayne and Chris in to a small room with a sap and tell them 'You're working this out so we can get back to real 2A issues or you're both going home as walking bruises.'
Honestly Sir, its called loyalty in the face of antigun media attempts to divide, discredit and destroy RKBA.

I have seen no proof of wrongdoing by Wayne, Chris Cox or even col north and I flatly reject any info from the New York Times or any other such communist front group. The very fact no real news outlet has written even one word about problems within the NRA is enough for me to stand with successful leaders like Wayne,Chris and the NRA board.

Now in a desperate attempt the NRA bashers have accused me of racism and attributing to me that only christian whites should own guns that is so DISHONEST that anything else these so called NRA reformers have too say must be viewed as equally DISHONEST !

Because their arguments have been exposed and discredited they now throw out a racism charge against me !
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Last edited by ja308; 06-20-2019 at 10:31 PM..
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  #60  
Old 06-20-2019, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
Honestly Sir, its called loyalty in the face of antigun media attempts to divide, discredit and destroy RKBA.

I have seen no proof of wrongdoing by Wayne, Chris Cox or even col north and I flatly reject any info from the New York Times or any other such communist front group. The very fact no real news outlet has written even one word about problems within the NRA is enough for me to stand with successful leaders like Wayne,Chris and the NRA board...
I'll try, once more by repeating what I said in Post #57 above...

See Post #33 above.

See Post #61 in this thread.

See this thread.

Short version - The 'spin' by The New York Times may be questioned, but the report is based on FACT and is not a 'made up' controversy. Most reports are derivative of The New York Times article in terms of giving credit to them for breaking the story and the quotes they managed to get.

However, that article is based on an actual court filing and quotes they got from Cox and Arulanandam (Managing Director, NRA Public Affairs).

If you'd prefer a more 'conservative' media outlet, something you'd have a difficult time declaring a bastion of Liberalism or a Communist front group, how about The Daily Caller...

Quote:
Cox has been placed on administrative leave pending an investigation, as was his top aide, Scott Christman, NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam told The NYT.
As I noted, I can't find an official statement by the NRA or NRA-ILA about the Cox suspension. But, if they got the quotes from Cox and Arulanandam, then I'll go with that for now. (Surely one or both would have tweeted, posted to Facebook, jumped on FOX News, made a video for NRATV... something... were those quotes 'fake.')

As I've said before, there's nothing wrong with defending the NRA. The problem you're having is that you keep making demonstrably false declarations. Or, as Kestryll noted above...

Quote:
To be honest nearly all of what I've seen of ja308 is darn near fanatical defense of the NRA, to be blunt almost to the point of blindness.
Defend the NRA. Unspin the spin. But, don't deny reality in that doing so undermines any defense you present.

Loyalty is 'a strong feeling of support or allegiance.' As the NRA constantly reminds us, WE are the NRA (the organization). Many members either believe there is a problem or are concerned there might be. Denial of reality is not only 'blind loyalty,' it's near delusional and, frankly, is an impediment to solving the problems which do, seem to exist, to whatever degree.

Put another way, myself and others have provided the documents/source material for many of these articles. The question isn't whether problem(s) exist. The questions needing to be addressed are how extensive those issues actually are and/or what needs to happen to set things, including the record, straight.
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:40 PM
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Nailed it on post #3.
NRA Leadership is destroying the NRA. All Bloomturd has to do is report on the garbage fire of arrogance. stupidity, greed, and cowardice.
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Offwidth View Post
Bloomberg preemptive campaign before the election year continues. Demonize and discredit NRA so that their enforcements are less effective.

Plenty of useful idiots to target.
agreed !
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
Honestly Sir, its called loyalty in the face of antigun media attempts to divide, discredit and destroy RKBA.

I have seen no proof of wrongdoing by Wayne, Chris Cox or even col north and I flatly reject any info from the New York Times or any other such communist front group. The very fact no real news outlet has written even one word about problems within the NRA is enough for me to stand with successful leaders like Wayne,Chris and the NRA board.

Now in a desperate attempt the NRA bashers have accused me of racism and attributing to me that only christian whites should own guns that is so DISHONEST that anything else these so called NRA reformers have too say must be viewed as equally DISHONEST !

Because their arguments have been exposed and discredited they now throw out a racism charge against me !
There's a difference between being loyal, and being willfully blind to wrong doing because you want to believe that the organization you support is right. Nothing is incorruptible, nothing is perfect, but calling them out on their wrongdoings and holding them accountable is how you fix it, not burying your head in the sand. And I assume in your opinion, a "real" news outlet would be NRATV? Of course if this was real they would admit it themselves on their "news" channel. Don't look at the source, look at the evidence that has been presented. And what we are saying about you isn't dishonest, anyone can go to the other threads and look at your posts and see for themselves. You even went so far as to say that as an NRA instructor, you would never train a democrat. That is why the 2A is dying. We need to be getting as many new gun owners as we can, no matter their political affiliation, and people like you are driving them away.
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:26 PM
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Ja608,
Comparing a politician to a
Mechanic it a dentist? I would state that there is no unassailable proof that a politician is any more ethical, or smarter than a politician.
Your John Adams quote is slightly off, his October 11, 1798, address was “religious AND moral” not religious moral... either way, they are not mutually inclusive. Adams was referring to people not destroying the govt by bad acts, “like a whale through a net”
I can’t believe that “W.” Would still be president, not when the economy was in a downward spiral...
About your comment of voters.... What is the threshold you deem is critical to permit a citizen to vote? If they are equally as intelligent as you are? What if they are, perhaps, more intelligent than you, and held your same opinion of anyone less intelligent than they are? Citizens have a right to vote, regardless of race, sex, age, sexual identity, or ...intelligence.
Just my opinion. Check out Loro Piano fabric.... next time you want to purchase another suit. 👍
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:30 PM
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Please omit “not “ in my above post in the line “people not destroying”..I deleted Tapatalk because it constantly crashes in calguns and also turns my iPhone into a space heater.
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Old 06-21-2019, 8:17 AM
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I'd like to ask why it is that you keep singling me out? In the other threads, I was banned twice even though I don't feel I broke any rules. Even so, several others, including Ja308, were throwing just as many insults. One member even said the exact same thing I was banned for, but none of them are banned. Last time you banned me for suggesting that you ban people you disagree with, which is quite ironic. Ja308 suggested that black people and non-religious people are immoral and shouldn't be allowed to own guns, yet you don't ban him? That's disgusting. So I ask, what is your problem? It's pretty sad that in a day where social media is constantly censoring us, we aren't even allowed to exercise our freedom of speech on a 2A forum that supposedly supports the constitution. We are all supposedly adults here, and yet we are treated like delicate children. Literally no other firearm forum would ban people for the bogus stuff you do. This forum, much like this communist state of ours, seems to enjoy censoring people it doesn't like or agree with. I'm sure you'll ban me for calling you out, which will just prove my point.
I would not think that “freedom of speech” on a RKBA forum should include rabid distribution of Bloomberg’s lies.
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Old 06-21-2019, 8:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Offwidth View Post
I would not think that “freedom of speech” on a RKBA forum should include rabid distribution of Bloomberg’s lies.
Correct Sir and to that point look at the words used to describe Wayne La Pierre and President Trump that I will not dignify by reprinting here.

Its very obvious we have people, maybe 5 who are in the mode to elect an ANTIGUN DEMOCRAT by sewing discourse within the RKBA community.

On a more positive note all these posts and complaints have had zero effect on the gun community. They are exclusive to a few cal gun posers !

Ayn Rand — ‘Contradictions do not exist in the universe. Whenever you think that you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong!"

The premise is these are sincere RKBA advocates who only want to reform the NRA. Yet the names and malicious berating of our president, board members,Wayne LaPiere show a hatred, not sincere effort to find truth .
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Old 06-21-2019, 8:58 AM
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Originally Posted by 32spoke View Post
Ja608,
Comparing a politician to a
Mechanic it a dentist? I would state that there is no unassailable proof that a politician is any more ethical, or smarter than a politician.
Your John Adams quote is slightly off, his October 11, 1798, address was “religious AND moral” not religious moral... either way, they are not mutually inclusive. Adams was referring to people not destroying the govt by bad acts, “like a whale through a net”
I can’t believe that “W.” Would still be president, not when the economy was in a downward spiral...
About your comment of voters.... What is the threshold you deem is critical to permit a citizen to vote? If they are equally as intelligent as you are? What if they are, perhaps, more intelligent than you, and held your same opinion of anyone less intelligent than they are? Citizens have a right to vote, regardless of race, sex, age, sexual identity, or ...intelligence.
Just my opinion. Check out Loro Piano fabric.... next time you want to purchase another suit. ��
Its my belief the swamp made up the economy being in a downward spiral to hurt George W Bush.

The swamp will drop the stock markets just before the 2020 election in an attempt to hurt President Trump. ( I suggest keeping lots of liquid assets and buy)

Adams quote of our constitution being made suitable only for a" moral and religious people..."

Regarding those who should not vote as posted earlier. This IDIOT was in the booth for approximately 30 minutes ! In other words the dimwit did ZERO research on what was on the ballot !

Finally thank you for the tip on fabrics. https://www.neimanmarcus.com/c/desig...EI6w&gclsrc=ds
I want another another place to shop after Bloomingdales insulted me by becoming political regarding San Francisco and activities occurring there .
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Offwidth View Post
I would not think that “freedom of speech” on a RKBA forum should include rabid distribution of Bloomberg’s lies.
That's cute. They aren't "lies" if you aren't stubborn and are willing to objectively look at the evidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
Correct Sir and to that point look at the words used to describe Wayne La Pierre and President Trump that I will not dignify by reprinting here.

Its very obvious we have people, maybe 5 who are in the mode to elect an ANTIGUN DEMOCRAT by sewing discourse within the RKBA community.

On a more positive note all these posts and complaints have had zero effect on the gun community. They are exclusive to a few cal gun posers !

Ayn Rand — ‘Contradictions do not exist in the universe. Whenever you think that you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong!"

The premise is these are sincere RKBA advocates who only want to reform the NRA. Yet the names and malicious berating of our president, board members,Wayne LaPiere show a hatred, not sincere effort to find truth .
You know, it doesn't help your side when your only response it to call everyone who disagrees with you a democrat troll. And outside of a few people on Calguns, all the evidence that has come out against the NRA has had a HUGE impact on the gun community, and 90% of people are pissed off and done with it. At the very least, people are concerned and want reassurances that the allegations are false, which the NRA can't/wont do. If you look at any other 2A forums, youtube videos, articles, ect, people are very upset. You ever look at the comments on the NRA youtube videos? Some are trolls, but the majority are pissed off 2A people. The amount of people who have canceled their memberships over the last couple years is pretty considerable. And I'm sure you'll claim that "we don't need those dem trolls", but you do. Between the corruption and their terrible interactions with their base, they are going to keep losing members until they can get their act together.

Last edited by Python6357; 06-21-2019 at 10:54 AM..
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:20 AM
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That's cute. They aren't "lies" if you aren't stubborn and are willing to objectively look at the evidence.



You know, it doesn't help your side when your only response it to call everyone who disagrees with you a democrat troll. And outside of a few people on Calguns, all the evidence that has come out against the NRA has had a HUGE impact on the gun community, and 90% of people are pissed off and done with it. At the very least, people are concerned and want reassurances that the allegations are false, which the NRA can't/wont do. If you look at any other 2A forums, youtube videos, articles, ect, people are very upset. You ever look at the comments on the NRA youtube videos? Some are trolls, but the majority are pissed off 2A people. The amount of people who have canceled their memberships over the last couple years is pretty considerable. And I'm sure you'll claim that "we don't need those dem trolls", but you do. Between the corruption and their terrible interactions with their base, they are going to keep losing members until they can get their act together.
I do not doubt the media you watch has all those elements. Here is an example of the media many people unwisely trust.
https://babylonbee.com/news/ocasio-c...rt-thing-to-do
Ocasio-Cortez Gets Head Stuck In Bucket, Journalists Rush To Explain Why It Was Actually A Genius Move

WASHINGTON, D.C.—On Wednesday, New York Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez somehow got her head stuck inside a bucket. She was heard yelling, “Who turned out the lights?” while repeatedly running full speed into walls. Republicans immediately pounced, using this as proof that Ocasio-Cortez is “kind of a dummy.” Many journalists, on the other hand, leaped to Ocasio-Cortez’s defense, saying her getting her head firmly wedged inside of a plastic bucket was further proof of her being an intelligent and dynamic politician.

Most people don’t have her scientific curiosity and intelligence,” said MSNBC pundit Chris Hayes. “Someone incurious like Trump would never look at a bucket and ask ‘Could my head fit inside that?’ But Ocasio-Cortez dives into such questions head first.”

“She is making a bold statement,” said CNN’s Chris Cuomo. “The bucket on her head is from Walmart, and she is saying loud and clear that corporations have blinded us all.”
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Last edited by ja308; 06-21-2019 at 11:23 AM..
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:21 AM
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That's cute. They aren't "lies" if you aren't stubborn and are willing to objectively look at the evidence.
At the risk of offending the moderators on this site I would point out the fact that you are indeed a pompous airhead.

No, kind sir, there is no "evidence". There are always politics in any large enough organization. When you grow up, you will learn that, if your career trajectory allows for that.

The only purpose of the referenced article and of your posts is to drum up LIES and INSINUATIONS to further Bloomberg's anti gun and anti GOP agenda before the elections. It is a corrupt goal to which people like you are convenient pawns.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:49 AM
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According to Steven Gutowski of Wash. Examiner the NRAILA Director post is unfilled, he points out that ILA Director oversees all lobbying, the NRA PVF. Further he points out the NRA communication in all forms is administered by AckMac and the services will be ending in days. No information about NRAILA strategy for Virginia Special Session on Gun Control.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
I do not doubt the media you watch has all those elements. Here is an example of the media many people unwisely trust.
https://babylonbee.com/news/ocasio-c...rt-thing-to-do
Ocasio-Cortez Gets Head Stuck In Bucket, Journalists Rush To Explain Why It Was Actually A Genius Move

WASHINGTON, D.C.—On Wednesday, New York Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez somehow got her head stuck inside a bucket. She was heard yelling, “Who turned out the lights?” while repeatedly running full speed into walls. Republicans immediately pounced, using this as proof that Ocasio-Cortez is “kind of a dummy.” Many journalists, on the other hand, leaped to Ocasio-Cortez’s defense, saying her getting her head firmly wedged inside of a plastic bucket was further proof of her being an intelligent and dynamic politician.

Most people don’t have her scientific curiosity and intelligence,” said MSNBC pundit Chris Hayes. “Someone incurious like Trump would never look at a bucket and ask ‘Could my head fit inside that?’ But Ocasio-Cortez dives into such questions head first.”

“She is making a bold statement,” said CNN’s Chris Cuomo. “The bucket on her head is from Walmart, and she is saying loud and clear that corporations have blinded us all.”
Once again, you referance something completely unrelated as a means of avoiding an actual response. You are the only one here who keeps linking to very odd and untrustworthy sources. I don't trust any media reporting. I look at the source of the evidence that has been revealed.

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Originally Posted by Offwidth View Post
At the risk of offending the moderators on this site I would point out the fact that you are indeed a pompous airhead.

No, kind sir, there is no "evidence". There are always politics in any large enough organization. When you grow up, you will learn that, if your career trajectory allows for that.

The only purpose of the referenced article and of your posts is to drum up LIES and INSINUATIONS to further Bloomberg's anti gun and anti GOP agenda before the elections. It is a corrupt goal to which people like you are convenient pawns.
Clearly you haven't been paying attention. Look at the court cases, the NRA's 990s and you will see all the evidence. How about the several NRA board members who have come out and said that there is a problem with Wayne and co and that most of the board is kept in the dark? Or is that just more Bloomberg propaganda? He must be a god if he is able to create fake court cases, falsify tax documents, and brainwash people on the board and in the organization into thinking there's a problem.
Just because this is good for the left doesn't mean they created it. They are simply benefiting off the NRA's massive corruption. None of this would be happening if the NRA was innocent. Disregarding something as fake just because dems like it is stupid and dangerous. You should be able to take an objective look at information, no matter the source, and determine if you think it's real or not. In this case, the evidence was not manufactured by the left, it exists because the NRA is screwed up.

Last edited by Python6357; 06-21-2019 at 11:54 AM..
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:56 AM
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Wait, did JA308 just use the Babylon Bee and a quote from it? Seriously?
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Old 06-21-2019, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Offwidth View Post
At the risk of offending the moderators on this site I would point out the fact that you are indeed a pompous airhead.

No, kind sir, there is no "evidence". There are always politics in any large enough organization. When you grow up, you will learn that, if your career trajectory allows for that.

The only purpose of the referenced article and of your posts is to drum up LIES and INSINUATIONS to further Bloomberg's anti gun and anti GOP agenda before the elections. It is a corrupt goal to which people like you are convenient pawns.
I agree and if the mods are offended, they can add me too . Its not only the misinformation its the downright hatred and disrespect shown our president and the NRA.

These 4 or 5 are here for DNC. If not they would have have been sincere in language and content.
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Old 06-21-2019, 12:02 PM
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Wait, did JA308 just use the Babylon Bee and a quote from it? Seriously?
I've never even heard of it before but I can tell just by the name that it's probably a bogus site.
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Old 06-21-2019, 12:07 PM
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Wait, did JA308 just use the Babylon Bee and a quote from it? Seriously?
Come on now YOU KNOW network anchors are accurate and fun too .

Fortuately our TV does not get network TV so please tell me as you might be GLUED to NETWORK TV. Which anchor now wears the tightest sweater and shortest skirt !

Ocasio-Cortez Gets Head Stuck In Bucket, Journalists Rush To Explain Why It Was Actually A Genius Move
https://babylonbee.com/news/ocasio-c...rt-thing-to-do

Yes Babylon bee has lots more credibility than the New York Times ,network TV and other sources used by NRA haters !
just saying.

Come on guys you know getting your head stuck in a bucket is a sign of curiosity and intelligence. Read the article !

Can I get a ^5 !
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Last edited by ja308; 06-21-2019 at 12:12 PM..
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Old 06-21-2019, 12:08 PM
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I agree and if the mods are offended, they can add me too . Its not only the misinformation its the downright hatred and disrespect shown our president and the NRA.

These 4 or 5 are here for DNC. If not they would have have been sincere in language and content.
It's not misinformation because you refuse to see it as legitimate. And it's not about "hatred", it's about accountability. We need to hold the traitors like Wayne and Trump accountable when they go against the 2A. That is the only way they will learn, and if they don't, they need to go. The people here criticizing the NRA are passionate about this topic because, like most people here, we care about guns and the 2A. We want what is best for our rights, and these clowns are actively mocking us and helping erode them even further. They are crapping all over what they claim to support and fight for, and people are tired of it. Instead of having a conversation, you just call everyone names and complain whenever someone criticizes your "heroes".

Quote:
Come on now YOU KNOW network anchors are accurate and fun too .

Fortuately our TV does not get network TV so please tell me as you might be GLUED to NETWORK TV. Which anchor now wears the tightest sweater and shortest skirt !

Ocasio-Cortez Gets Head Stuck In Bucket, Journalists Rush To Explain Why It Was Actually A Genius Move
J
What are you even talking about? This is getting more confusing every post you make.
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Old 06-21-2019, 12:12 PM
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Murkowski just tweeted a link to Hickok45 talking about parting company with the NRA over the current events.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NDMhgG...me_continue=75">https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NDMhgG...me_continue=75" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350">
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Old 06-21-2019, 12:17 PM
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JA308 is criminally obtuse. The Babylon Bee is a well-known, Christian satire site. The fact that he quotes it as a legitimate news source and uses it as evidence against the left should tell you all you need to know about him.
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