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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 06-09-2019, 9:02 PM
thmsmgnm thmsmgnm is offline
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Default Instead of Cleaning House The NRA Is On A Mole Hunt

Nothing says there is nothing to see here like a Mole Hunt.



Edited apparently NRA is subpoenaing Oliver North and 2 other BoD Members is what can easily be described as harassment or an attempt to silence anyone who is not willing to cover for Wayne and the 18 BoD members who are profiting from the NRA.

Last edited by thmsmgnm; 06-09-2019 at 9:24 PM..
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  #2  
Old 06-09-2019, 9:26 PM
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Rob Pincus

Obviously not doing this for the exposure. Seems like the shy sort.


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  #3  
Old 06-09-2019, 9:36 PM
thmsmgnm thmsmgnm is offline
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TKM you are right, Rob Pincus is the problem. Who is he to question the lavish spending, the financial problems and the questionable leadership of the NRA. He is just trying to make a name for himself.
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Old 06-10-2019, 7:19 AM
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NRA plan seems to be kill the messenger.
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Old 06-10-2019, 8:01 AM
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Originally Posted by TKM View Post


Looks like he can't keep a job.
Those are almost all listead as _____ - Present.

That looks more like he's involved in running several successful businesses consecutively and understands how a company is supposed to be operated.

Someone with that much experience at the executive level would be able to immediately recognize the kinds of problems being discussed.
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Old 06-10-2019, 9:30 AM
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Originally Posted by homelessdude View Post
NRA plan seems to be kill the messenger.
RIGHT! They just need to claim the messenger is the "enemy of the people" and "fake news" because THAT works.
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Old 06-10-2019, 9:33 AM
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Originally Posted by thmsmgnm View Post
Nothing says there is nothing to see here like a Mole Hunt.



Edited apparently NRA is subpoenaing Oliver North and 2 other BoD Members is what can easily be described as harassment or an attempt to silence anyone who is not willing to cover for Wayne and the 18 BoD members who are profiting from the NRA.
First of all, they have to use the right terminology. It's NOT a mole hunt, it's a WITCH hunt. AND it's not looking for moles, you have call them "leakers" and blame it on the "deep state". Maybe even claim it's Obama's fault.
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Old 06-10-2019, 9:52 AM
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NRA does have a tinge of royalty about them when it comes to dealing with the rubes. My own experiences with them has left me ambivalent to the organization, but I remain supportive of the political goals.

These four things did it for me:

1) held up for public ridicule and contempt at a dinner given by Tanya Metaxa in San Francisco
2) insulted in public by NRA Sacramento
3) held up for public ridicule by NRA Sacramento
4) denied access to an NRA forum on the grounds that I was neither a real person nor a "qualified NRA member."

Since I'm a Patron level member, this last was particularly insulting. I even offered NRA references but the answer was still: "F you."

So now I'm not as active with those people as I used to be, but I do take part in their education efforts aimed at new shooters.
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Old 06-10-2019, 9:52 AM
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I used the term mole hunt.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:04 AM
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I'm really not sure what the point would be of some of these threads.

Yes, I want much of the leadership gone but the organization needs to stay.

The thing is, the battle is not here on this forum so trying to fight it doesn't result in a win for anyone.

There will likely be court proceedings once the investigations are over. In the meantime there isn't much else productive we can do other than maybe flood into another organization.

If we got 1/2 the firearms owners in California to sign up for FPC or SAF or whatever - we'd then maybe be doing something productive because the NRA might see something else as a potential rival.

And no, I'm not advocating leaving the NRA. I'm just trying to say that maybe there are ways to be productive/constructive rather than just fruitlessly arguing about the good and bad in the NRA.
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Old 06-10-2019, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by OleCuss View Post
I'm really not sure what the point would be of some of these threads.

Yes, I want much of the leadership gone but the organization needs to stay.

The thing is, the battle is not here on this forum so trying to fight it doesn't result in a win for anyone.

There will likely be court proceedings once the investigations are over. In the meantime there isn't much else productive we can do other than maybe flood into another organization.

If we got 1/2 the firearms owners in California to sign up for FPC or SAF or whatever - we'd then maybe be doing something productive because the NRA might see something else as a potential rival.

And no, I'm not advocating leaving the NRA. I'm just trying to say that maybe there are ways to be productive/constructive rather than just fruitlessly arguing about the good and bad in the NRA.
The point is pretty clear. Someone who has nothing to do with the NRA (or it could be SAF, GOA, etc) posts something not with the intention of correcting or inviting improvement but simply saying "they suck". IIRC FPC went through it a few years back too. These are folks who by and large don't contribute, if they're gunowners at all, but just like to jam a stick into the spokes, so to speak.

Most of them are poseurs. Whether they've been around for a while or new a review of their post history make them pretty easy to spot. All politics, all derogatory. Perhaps prefaced by a fulsome "gee guys, this is a great forum" intro to disarm. But then it's right into taking shots.

As you referenced, one such fellow was asked to put up constructive specifics on how to address certain issues. It went nowhere. Because improvement and advancement is not what most of them want. They just want the opportunity to say "this is wrong". Because no one fails at criticizing, tearing down. It's easy as hell. Building is difficult.
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  #12  
Old 06-10-2019, 12:32 PM
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Until NRA Members at large are willing to remove the majority of the NRA BoD and fire the NRA Executive Officers nothing will change. Recognizing there is a problem is the first step. Removing the problems are the third step.
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Old 06-10-2019, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frito Bandido View Post
Those are almost all listead as _____ - Present.

That looks more like he's involved in running several successful businesses consecutively and understands how a company is supposed to be operated.

Someone with that much experience at the executive level would be able to immediately recognize the kinds of problems being discussed.
Or like he has involvement is several Internet gun training video businesses of unknown value where he sells his version of firearm training.
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Old 06-10-2019, 1:17 PM
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The NRA is suing Ackerman McQueen. In the civil lawsuits that I have been involved in it was common to be subpoenaed to give a deposition. So what exactly is the problem? Posting a couple of tweets from someone with no other information except for a accusation is really not all that informative or damning.
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Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
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Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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  #15  
Old 06-10-2019, 2:48 PM
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Originally Posted by thmsmgnm View Post
Until NRA Members at large are willing to remove the majority of the NRA BoD and fire the NRA Executive Officers nothing will change. Recognizing there is a problem is the first step. Removing the problems are the third step.
True, NRA members will be the ones to decide if there is a problem and how to best correct it. If those not in the organization have constructive suggestions it seems to me they are welcome, or ought to be. And should be considered. But they are not determinative.

I suppose there are those outside the organizations who believe the results must meet with their approval. They would be wrong. It was true in 1976 when Neal Knox and crew stirred things up and remains true today. Even if the decision is to by and large stand pat.
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Old 06-11-2019, 7:52 AM
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There is a problem whether the Membership recognises it or not.
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Old 06-11-2019, 8:32 AM
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There is a problem whether the Membership recognises it or not.
Maybe there is, but whatever it may be, it is not explained in the first post or anywhere else in this thread.
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Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
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Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
YES, TDS IS REAL, ORANGE MAN BAD

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Old 06-11-2019, 11:25 AM
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The point is most NRA Members have zero clue about what is going on with the NRA. Almost none know the NRA had to be sued by NRA BoD candidates to stop NRA from having Do Not Vote For Ads in NRA magazines for BoD elections.
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
RIGHT! They just need to claim the messenger is the "enemy of the people" and "fake news" because THAT works.
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Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
First of all, they have to use the right terminology. It's NOT a mole hunt, it's a WITCH hunt. AND it's not looking for moles, you have call them "leakers" and blame it on the "deep state". Maybe even claim it's Obama's fault.
Hahaha. I'd be willing to bet that, with a little help from the search feature, you could have found a more appropriate thread in which you could try and bash Trump.
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:59 AM
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The point is most NRA Members have zero clue about what is going on with the NRA. Almost none know the NRA had to be sued by NRA BoD candidates to stop NRA from having Do Not Vote For Ads in NRA magazines for BoD elections.
Was that really the point of this thread? Sorry, I don't see it.
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Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
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Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
YES, TDS IS REAL, ORANGE MAN BAD

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Old 06-11-2019, 1:27 PM
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Was that really the point of this thread? Sorry, I don't see it.
The point of the thread is for non-members to trash the NRA with a goal of diminishing its overall political impact. Which in CA seems like a bit of a waste of time.

So long as NRA members respond in a fashion approved of by non-members and non-supporters, well they're doing the right thing. According to these non-contributors. They have vision, are well informed and coruscatingly wise. But if NRA members don't agree with them (how dare those dues paying, ILA supporting, Life and Benefactor and Endowment members decide otherwise) then they're not paying attention or are in the bag for Wayne and company. A self validating confirmation bias.

The more they write (and posting history read) the easier it is to see what they're about.

What the heck, let's include a link to donate to NRA - include them in all such threads, still tax deductible

https://donate.nra.org/donate

Last edited by dfletcher; 06-11-2019 at 4:15 PM..
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Old 06-12-2019, 7:32 AM
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I am a Life Member, that particular event was my first clue the NRA had a problem. People from Jeff Knox to Tom Gresham have talked about the disconnect between what goes on in the NRA and what the members know. Maybe 5 people on this board know or even remember that lawsuit that had to be filed to get the NRA to behave. Same for the NRA Finances, and problems.
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Old 06-12-2019, 9:49 AM
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Originally Posted by thmsmgnm View Post
I am a Life Member, that particular event was my first clue the NRA had a problem. People from Jeff Knox to Tom Gresham have talked about the disconnect between what goes on in the NRA and what the members know. Maybe 5 people on this board know or even remember that lawsuit that had to be filed to get the NRA to behave. Same for the NRA Finances, and problems.
What does this have to do with the original post?
What was the point of your original post, when asked about it you changed the topic and started ranting about something else.
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Originally Posted by FrankMo View Post
Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
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Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
YES, TDS IS REAL, ORANGE MAN BAD

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Old 06-12-2019, 10:48 AM
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Simple the NRA prefers to cover up the problems rather than reform. The vote against ads were part of the LaPierre and his cronies gaining complete control of the NRA and preventing any attempts to reform the spending, questions the self dealing where NRA BoD members got contracts with the NRA.

All of the above snowballed into hundreds of millions $$$$ in spending that made their way into vendors, pr firms, law firms pockets in the last few years. That spending is now breaking the NRA. As I said, instead of cleaning things up, the NRA wants to plug the leaks.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:58 AM
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Why don’t you run for BoD then? I don’t remember you endorsing any reform candidates during the last election ether?

That’s why this sudden rush to blow up the NRA is so suspicious.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by thmsmgnm View Post
TKM you are right, Rob Pincus is the problem. Who is he to question the lavish spending, the financial problems and the questionable leadership of the NRA. He is just trying to make a name for himself.
I can't financially support the NRA until LaPierre is gone.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by thmsmgnm View Post
Simple the NRA prefers to cover up the problems rather than reform. The vote against ads were part of the LaPierre and his cronies gaining complete control of the NRA and preventing any attempts to reform the spending, questions the self dealing where NRA BoD members got contracts with the NRA.

All of the above snowballed into hundreds of millions $$$$ in spending that made their way into vendors, pr firms, law firms pockets in the last few years. That spending is now breaking the NRA. As I said, instead of cleaning things up, the NRA wants to plug the leaks.
Why are you being dishonest and dodging the question. What was the point of your original post. Subpoenas are very common in lawsuits and the NRA is suing Ackerman McQueen for withholding billing information and breaching their contract and are most likely taking depositions for the lawsuit. Isn't this part of the "cleaning things up" that you claim that the NRA needs to do?
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Originally Posted by FrankMo View Post
Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
YES, TDS IS REAL, ORANGE MAN BAD

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Last edited by TRICKSTER; 06-12-2019 at 11:56 AM..
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by MrTokarev View Post
Why don’t you run for BoD then? I don’t remember you endorsing any reform candidates during the last election ether?

That’s why this sudden rush to blow up the NRA is so suspicious.


Lots of good people ran for the BOD and ran into coordinated efforts by cronies of the current leadership to block them.

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/01/nra...#axzz5qfTKBxQw

Remember that gem by Marion Hammer. It was directed at guys like this guy.

https://youtu.be/w1ol4kL9-gM">https://youtu.be/w1ol4kL9-gM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350">
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
Why are you being dishonest and dodging the question. What was the point of your original post. Subpoenas are very common in lawsuits and the NRA is suing Ackerman McQueen for withholding billing information and breaching their contract and are most likely taking depositions for the lawsuit. Isn't this part of the "cleaning things up" that you claim that the NRA needs to do?

I believe there are now two lawsuits. The subpoenas are related to the second lawsuit which cover NRA contention that AckMac initiated a coup to remove Wayne. Which is rich with hypocrisy considered Wayne and AckMac went after Neal Knox in a similar situation when Neal wanted AckMac fired and Wayne removed for exorbitant PR spending.

Cleaning things up starts with a new EVP and Executive staff, who did not take AckMac contracts from $2 million a year to over $40 million a year. Worse never sought competitive bids for the PR contract or transparency until the reporters started digging
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Old 06-12-2019, 1:12 PM
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Originally Posted by thmsmgnm View Post
I believe there are now two lawsuits. The subpoenas are related to the second lawsuit which cover NRA contention that AckMac initiated a coup to remove Wayne. Which is rich with hypocrisy considered Wayne and AckMac went after Neal Knox in a similar situation when Neal wanted AckMac fired and Wayne removed for exorbitant PR spending.

Cleaning things up starts with a new EVP and Executive staff, who did not take AckMac contracts from $2 million a year to over $40 million a year. Worse never sought competitive bids for the PR contract or transparency until the reporters started digging
You believe? So you really don't know? Once again you are not informing, you go straight to bashing based on something that you either don't know or are not telling the full story about. Why in the world should anyone believe anything that you post when we have to double check your accuracy on everything and keep finding deception and dishonesty.
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Originally Posted by FrankMo View Post
Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
YES, TDS IS REAL, ORANGE MAN BAD

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Old 06-12-2019, 4:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Full Clip View Post
I can't financially support the NRA until LaPierre is gone.
But when they accomplish something you'll accept the benefit? Does that seem appropriate? You eat the steak you're supposed to pay for the steak. Not eat it and complain "was a little too well done, I'm not going to pay".

Seems to me there ought to be a better way, more middle ground way, of addressing it. I get that you don't want to fork over full fare, but going to zero?
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Old 06-12-2019, 4:32 PM
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But let me help you out since you don't care to educate yourself.

NRA Sues AckMac Again. Now over "coup attempt."


NRA Files Second Lawsuit Issues Subpoenas To Find Leaker(s).
Yes, there are 6 subpoenas, one each to Rob Pincus, Olliver North, Lance Olsen, and three others.


Next time instead of trying to carry Wayne's water try doing a little research yourself.
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Old 06-12-2019, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by thmsmgnm View Post
But let me help you out since you don't care to educate yourself.

NRA Sues AckMac Again. Now over "coup attempt."


NRA Files Second Lawsuit Issues Subpoenas To Find Leaker(s).
Yes, there are 6 subpoenas, one each to Rob Pincus, Olliver North, Lance Olsen, and three others.


Next time instead of trying to carry Wayne's water try doing a little research yourself.
So asking you to explain what your own thread is about, since you didn't mention any of this in your original post and only now posted some info after I pressed you, is supposedly "trying to carry Wayne's water"

And do you even know what this lawsuit is about?


Quote:
According to the legal complaint, “the conspiracy led by AMc had a malicious, singular purpose: to derail inquiries by the NRA into AMc’s business and accounting practices.” The litigation asserts that “escalating salvos” over access to financial records “culminated in an extortion threat delivered by an employee, Lt. Col. Oliver North” timed to the NRA’s annual convention. “North’s directive to NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre was simple: withdraw the then-pending lawsuit against AMc, resign immediately from the NRA, and support AMc’s chosen leadership slate for the be publicly smeared,” the lawsuit says.
So people are being subpoena as part of a lawsuit, what a shock.

Once again you deceitfully present only the part of the story that fits you dishonest agenda. And once again, why in the world should anyone believe anything that you post when we have to double check your accuracy on everything and keep finding deception and dishonesty.
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Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
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Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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  #34  
Old 06-19-2019, 5:24 PM
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But when they accomplish something you'll accept the benefit? Does that seem appropriate? You eat the steak you're supposed to pay for the steak. Not eat it and complain "was a little too well done, I'm not going to pay".

Seems to me there ought to be a better way, more middle ground way, of addressing it. I get that you don't want to fork over full fare, but going to zero?
I've been a member and participated in additional donations.
That's done until he's gone.
He's a cancer on the cause.
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  #35  
Old 06-23-2019, 8:08 AM
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I've been a member and participated in additional donations.
That's done until he's gone.
He's a cancer on the cause.
Some here will think you a chump for jumping on every innuendo and democrat news outlets so called expose of NRA leadership !

Not me however, I think you just saved the price of re joining the NRA ! smart move Sir!
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  #36  
Old 06-23-2019, 11:09 AM
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Some here will think you a chump for jumping on every innuendo and democrat news outlets so called expose of NRA leadership !

Not me however, I think you just saved the price of re joining the NRA ! smart move Sir!
Some here think he and many others are right to not give more money to the NRA. See, they are trying to do what they can to force change within the NRA instead of blindly worshiping them like a god. I've noticed in your profile picture, you are even trying to look like Wayne, it's disturbing and unhealthy how obsessed you are with the man. So if you are unable to contribute anything useful to any of these treads, or even anything related, how about you just stop replying. All you do is mock people, post weird unrelated articles, and accuse people of saying and doing things they no one has done.
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  #37  
Old 06-24-2019, 8:06 AM
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Some here think he and many others are right to not give more money to the NRA. See, they are trying to do what they can to force change within the NRA instead of blindly worshiping them like a god. I've noticed in your profile picture, you are even trying to look like Wayne, it's disturbing and unhealthy how obsessed you are with the man. So if you are unable to contribute anything useful to any of these treads, or even anything related, how about you just stop replying. All you do is mock people, post weird unrelated articles, and accuse people of saying and doing things they no one has done.
No you are a 1 trick pony who's only posts deal with name calling of NRA officials and President Trump .

We got your number pal !
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"Both socialism & communism require a commitment to the use of force. You cannot decide what to do with the other guy’s money unless you are committed to use force to take that money from him..."
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"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams.
Who is John Galt!
Recent NRA LIFE ENDOWMENT MEMBER--on the way to PATRON. See you friends, in Nashville next April 2020.
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  #38  
Old 06-24-2019, 11:17 AM
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No you are a 1 trick pony who's only posts deal with name calling of NRA officials and President Trump .

We got your number pal !
Look who's talking. You're only response is to call anyone with a difference of opinion a "liberal troll" or "paid by Bloomberg". Still have yet to hear any relevant or valid argument from you in any of these threads. You've created a great troll, but I think people are tired of it now, you can stop with the act now.
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