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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 06-05-2019, 1:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Featureless View Post
We need to pick our battles. This is not a hill we should die on. You may now return to your regularly scheduled righteous indignation session.
Based on the sentiment expressed in your post the "California Native" sig line was a tad redundant. I'm from the "Live Free or Die" state and for some reason, just can't put my finger on it, we seem to have fared better when it comes to gun control …..

It doesn't seem to me politically wise to gratuitously offer up "this is what we don't care about".
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  #42  
Old 06-05-2019, 2:20 PM
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Hopefully, this all just gets quietly dropped. It seems suppressors are quietly going mainstream outside of a few states, and the NRA will surely advise Trump about this.

I'm not anywhere near ready to write off the man who put Kavanaugh and Gorsuch on the Supreme Court, and who is steadily eroding the liberal lock on the 9th Circuit.

Remember when GWB said he'd renew the AWB? Same deal, I think.

Last edited by FullMetalJacket; 06-05-2019 at 2:23 PM..
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  #43  
Old 06-05-2019, 2:20 PM
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A lot of this around here....




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Originally Posted by Featureless View Post
You're not thinking strategically. We do not have unlimited resources. They are continually coming at us with 2A infringements. If we expend our limited resources playing whack-a-mole on each and every one, we won't have any ammo left when that full ban you mentioned comes along.
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  #44  
Old 06-05-2019, 2:28 PM
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Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
Based on the sentiment expressed in your post the "California Native" sig line was a tad redundant. I'm from the "Live Free or Die" state and for some reason, just can't put my finger on it, we seem to have fared better when it comes to gun control …..

It doesn't seem to me politically wise to gratuitously offer up "this is what we don't care about".
Well you're here now, so you can deal with the reality that is California or you can continue with the internet bravado (which hasn't worked yet, but who knows?)
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  #45  
Old 06-05-2019, 2:30 PM
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Originally Posted by USMCmatt View Post
A lot of this around here....


Your bloviating anonymously on the internet is not the same as "Don't Tread on Me".
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  #46  
Old 06-05-2019, 2:47 PM
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Your bloviating anonymously on the internet is not the same as "Don't Tread on Me".
Keep rolling over. Soon there will be no hills to stand on if you aren't willing to fight.
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  #47  
Old 06-05-2019, 2:50 PM
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"tHiS iS 16D cHeSs ThOuGh"

I voted for him because Hillary wasnt an option, and he was "pro 2A".

He is clearly not actually "pro 2nd amendment" or a "shall not be infringed" kind of guy. I am. So he will not be getting my vote again

I appreciate his judge appointments. That was good. But the "take the guns 1st, due process later", bump stock banning, now suppressor hating, is complete and total bull****, and has done more damage than Barack ever did.

I dont care if your a republican or a democrat, a green party or libertarian, gun control is ****ing retarded in all shapes and forms and party allegiance needs to STOP.
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  #48  
Old 06-05-2019, 3:02 PM
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Originally Posted by USMCmatt View Post
Keep rolling over. Soon there will be no hills to stand on if you aren't willing to fight.
Blustering on the internet is not fighting. However it does show the enemy their divisive tactics work. Quit taking the bait.
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~ Barry Goldwater 1964
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  #49  
Old 06-05-2019, 3:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Featureless View Post
Well you're here now, so you can deal with the reality that is California or you can continue with the internet bravado (which hasn't worked yet, but who knows?)
Well, true sort of. 2nd home is out of state. Two more years and retirement awaits. To borrow from Eric Burdon's SF song - I wasn't born here, perhaps I'll die here … but I won't retire here. I won't do the "CA sucks" routine because guns aside it's been OK. Just not a best fit for me. Perhaps I'd feel differently if I lived in a more rural part of the state and not SF.

But to the point of my earlier post and not the "bravado" line - why give something up, especially at this point when there's only state level talk about it? And if things do become urgent, why not get something in return? Tossing out "not the hill" seems a pre-emptive signaling of giving in, guaranteeing getting us nothing.
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  #50  
Old 06-05-2019, 3:51 PM
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Trump maybe an imperfect Ally in defending the 2A, but he is
currently the only viable candidate that can actually get elected.

Other Pro 2A potential Presidential candidates, like Ted Cruz, for example,
(who I originally supported) are not as likely to be elected as Trump,
and when you consider only one elected President lost his bid in the
primaries for a 2nd Term back in 1857, those of you thinking about a
Trump Alternative just aren't being realistic.

Because getting a Democrat President in 2020 would be an Absolute
Disaster, in more ways than one, compared to Trump.

It is unlikely Trump will carry forward any actions on Suppressor after
he gets back home and "looks into it".

Why ? Well for one thing, his Pro 2A son has his ear, and guess what,
his son supports Suppressors:




Donald Trump Jr. is the new spokesman for suppressors
Hot Air. January 8, 2017
https://hotair.com/archives/2017/01/...r-suppressors/

"The President Elect’s son is making some news this week, this time as a
vocal proponent for the relaxation of regulations on suppressors for shooters."


"Now the gun industry, which for decades has complained about the
restrictions, is pursuing new legislation to make silencers easier to buy,
and a key backer is Donald Trump Jr., an avid hunter and the oldest son
of the president-elect, who campaigned as a friend of the gun industry."



In addition, the NRA also has a seat at Trumps table, which would never
happen under any of the current Democrat Presidential candidates,
although they would allow Bloomberg's Anti-2A groups at the table.

What is of Over Riding Importance is that we continue to have Pro 2A
appoints to SCOTUS and the Lower Courts, which will prime us to take
down these various Infringements that have accumulated over the years
in Progressive Enclaves like California & New York
.

Also, we need to Focus on the Real Enemy, the Anti-2A Democrat Party
and their Mass Media Minions, who stir up the Outrage Mobs to take
advantage of Tragedies so they can force more Gun Control down our
collective throats, and of course, Bloomberg and his Billionaire Buddys
like Soros, who supply Endless Piles of Cash to Prop Up the Gun Control
Movement, which, without their cash infusions, would have shrunk down
to political insignificance by now.

And I would remind everyone that the Future Looks Much Brighter
than what it looked like prior to November 8, 2016:


Survey finds Hillary Clinton has ‘more than 99% chance’
of winning election over Donald Trump

Independent. November 5, 2016
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a7399671.html

So those of you currently Unhappy with how things have unfolded...

Just Imagine the Damage Hillary would have done by now.


So as much as I don't think Bump Stocks should be Banned, and
Suppressors and Bump Stocks should be readily available to law abiding
citizens, I am not losing that much sleep over these particular issues
because we are stocking more and more Judges like U.S. District Court
Judge Roger T. Benitez, who gave us Freedom Week, and the future looks
a Lot Better than the Alternative, Democrat Hillary's Gun-Free Nirvana.


Noble
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  #51  
Old 06-05-2019, 3:52 PM
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Originally Posted by foreppin916 View Post
"tHiS iS 16D cHeSs ThOuGh"

I voted for him because Hillary wasnt an option, and he was "pro 2A".

He is clearly not actually "pro 2nd amendment" or a "shall not be infringed" kind of guy. I am. So he will not be getting my vote again

I appreciate his judge appointments. That was good. But the "take the guns 1st, due process later", bump stock banning, now suppressor hating, is complete and total bull****, and has done more damage than Barack ever did.

I dont care if your a republican or a democrat, a green party or libertarian, gun control is ****ing retarded in all shapes and forms and party allegiance needs to STOP.
Agreed. If it comes down to him or another anti gun dem, he'll get my vote again, but I'd really like someone who actually supports the 2A.
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  #52  
Old 06-05-2019, 5:50 PM
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Originally Posted by selfshrevident View Post
So they outsmarted the democrats... by beating the democrats to the punch on gun control...

Nope. NRA didn't like bump stocks and took a side and the President adopted their stance. Here it is straight from the horse's mouth:



Translation- we don't like bump stocks, they're basically machine guns, and we don't want these devices being readily available to the public. They didn't outsmart anyone except the NRA supporters who ate it up. They took the politically expedient way out by urging the president to override congress and law. And btw, congress still introduced anti-gun legislation after parkland. It just didn't go anywhere since GOP had majority.

Disclaimer: I'm not advocating for destroying the NRA or for memebers to cancel their membership. The leadership in that organization needs to change, and that must come from within. The NRA has done a lot of great things, but they've also knifed us in the back a couple times. Take it for what it is.
Thats exactly how the NRA outsmarted the democrats/media and international law players.

Bump stocks were going down. No one could stop that train. The democrats were ready for lots of bad legislation that would have had long reaching consequences against us . The NRA outsmarted them !

In your instance I do not see what the problem is. You want a bump stock ? Keep it ! molon Labe and all the internet tough guys, got your back !
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  #53  
Old 06-05-2019, 5:59 PM
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Thats exactly how the NRA outsmarted the democrats/media and international law players.

Bump stocks were going down. No one could stop that train. The democrats were ready for lots of bad legislation that would have had long reaching consequences against us . The NRA outsmarted them !

In your instance I do not see what the problem is. You want a bump stock ? Keep it ! molon Labe and all the internet tough guys, got your back !
So you think the NRA should back down when the odds aren't in our favor? If that's the case, the NRA should shut down, not that it would be a huge loss if they did.
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  #54  
Old 06-05-2019, 7:44 PM
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Trump:Unarmed civilians are "sitting ducks"

https://mb.ntd.com/trump-unarmed-civ...ks_339579.html
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Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
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Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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  #55  
Old 06-05-2019, 7:55 PM
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Originally Posted by foreppin916 View Post
"tHiS iS 16D cHeSs ThOuGh"

I voted for him because Hillary wasnt an option, and he was "pro 2A".

He is clearly not actually "pro 2nd amendment" or a "shall not be infringed" kind of guy. I am. So he will not be getting my vote again

I appreciate his judge appointments. That was good. But the "take the guns 1st, due process later", bump stock banning, now suppressor hating, is complete and total bull****, and has done more damage than Barack ever did.

I dont care if your a republican or a democrat, a green party or libertarian, gun control is ****ing retarded in all shapes and forms and party allegiance needs to STOP.
Interesting, So your going to vote for Who then??? Biden?, Harris?, Booker?, Facahontas? Butegeg?, Some unknown Independent?

Lots of good choices there. Please explain to me how any of them are going do a better job on the 2A for you.

I'll wait.
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Americans vs. Democrats
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We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.
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  #56  
Old 06-05-2019, 7:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Bhobbs View Post
So you think the NRA should back down when the odds aren't in our favor? If that's the case, the NRA should shut down, not that it would be a huge loss if they did.
Why don't you take over for them, I'm sure you'll do a much better job.
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~ Barry Goldwater 1964
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  #57  
Old 06-05-2019, 8:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foreppin916 View Post
"tHiS iS 16D cHeSs ThOuGh"

I voted for him because Hillary wasnt an option, and he was "pro 2A".

He is clearly not actually "pro 2nd amendment" or a "shall not be infringed" kind of guy. I am. So he will not be getting my vote again

I appreciate his judge appointments. That was good. But the "take the guns 1st, due process later", bump stock banning, now suppressor hating, is complete and total bull****, and has done more damage than Barack ever did.

I dont care if your a republican or a democrat, a green party or libertarian, gun control is ****ing retarded in all shapes and forms and party allegiance needs to STOP.
what is your plan to win ?
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  #58  
Old 06-05-2019, 9:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
He will not alienate the NRA !

This is Bloomberg, who wrote the article in an attempt to separate gun owners from GOP/Trump support!

This latest murderer DeWayne Cradock not only passed a gun background check. He went through the trouble to do the NFA suppressor check and fee !

Exactly. And by reading the posts here he has succeeded in many cases.
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Old 06-05-2019, 10:01 PM
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So you think the NRA should back down when the odds aren't in our favor? If that's the case, the NRA should shut down, not that it would be a huge loss if they did.
What they should and did do was when facing the inevitable, like the bump stock ban, work so it does the least amount of damage possible. They agreed to a ATF policy review, something that has a good chance of being challenged in court since the ATF had already ruled them okay previously. If that hadn't happened, the public outrage at the time would have pushed Congress into passing an actual federal law, something that would have pretty much zero chance of being overturned.

So what would you have done that would have worked better?
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  #60  
Old 06-05-2019, 10:16 PM
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Never Trumpers on Mexico paying for the wall: "You can't believe a word Trump says"

Never Trumpers on possibly banning suspressors: "OMG! He'll do EXACTLY what he said he might do. We're doomed!"
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  #61  
Old 06-05-2019, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Squatch View Post
I'm in the camp that thinks Trump was just talking out his *** again.

But if anyone is truly that worried why not email Trump himself and tell him you dont like the idea.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/

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Originally Posted by DentonandSasquatchShow View Post
Never Trumpers on Mexico paying for the wall: "You can't believe a word Trump says"

Never Trumpers on possibly banning suspressors: "OMG! He'll do EXACTLY what he said he might do. We're doomed!"
You two again, eh?
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  #62  
Old 06-06-2019, 4:29 AM
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Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
What they should and did do was when facing the inevitable, like the bump stock ban, work so it does the least amount of damage possible. They agreed to a ATF policy review, something that has a good chance of being challenged in court since the ATF had already ruled them okay previously. If that hadn't happened, the public outrage at the time would have pushed Congress into passing an actual federal law, something that would have pretty much zero chance of being overturned.

So what would you have done that would have worked better?
I disagree sir. What they should've done is what they did after Newtown- not compromise. I was actually quite amazed they didn't give something away after that, especially something as seemingly innocent as "background checks".

A flurry of bills were introduced after the vegas shooting, ranging from bump stock bans, banning online ammo sales, firearm tracking, handgun trigger regs, mag limits, waiting periods, multiple purchase reporting, assault weapon ban, etc. I don't believe for a second that the Trump/NRA/ATF bump stock tango- that took a year to come to fruition- killed every one of these bills. They died because the GOP controlled the House and Senate and they were DOA. If the GOP had just stalled long enough public support would've waned for gun control like it always does every time.

And to the point about the executive bump stock ban being challenged successfully in court, that doesn't appear to be going well at all. The SCOTUS let it go through without an injunction while individual cases get decided, effectively screwing everyone who owns one. If this was the Trump/NRA strategy it was severely misguided.
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  #63  
Old 06-06-2019, 5:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Frito Bandido View Post
Let's keep holding our breath for all those expansion of 2A rights that everyone thought was gonna happen under Trump.
Want to expand your 2A rights? How important is it to you? You have the option to move to a "free state" and expand your 2A rights immediately.
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  #64  
Old 06-06-2019, 6:09 AM
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Well, true sort of. 2nd home is out of state. Two more years and retirement awaits. To borrow from Eric Burdon's SF song - I wasn't born here, perhaps I'll die here … but I won't retire here. I won't do the "CA sucks" routine because guns aside it's been OK. Just not a best fit for me. Perhaps I'd feel differently if I lived in a more rural part of the state and not SF.

But to the point of my earlier post and not the "bravado" line - why give something up, especially at this point when there's only state level talk about it? And if things do become urgent, why not get something in return? Tossing out "not the hill" seems a pre-emptive signaling of giving in, guaranteeing getting us nothing.
I understand the incrementalism/death by a thousand cuts argument, and have no quarrel with it. But there are continual attacks on our 2A rights, especially in lunatic-left controlled states like CA. Some of these attacks are more serious, more imminent than others, and this one is low priority. And, suppressors are already illegal here so in some respects we don't have a dog in that fight.

It's not that I don't care, it's that I recognize we have limited resources to marshal against actually LOSING our RKBA. We're not going to win every battle but we can still win the war.
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  #65  
Old 06-06-2019, 6:19 AM
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Don't vote for Trump, same as voting for Biden or Sanders. Yep, then you will really have something to complain about when the Semi-auto ban goes into effect.
THIS... go ahead and flush the country down the toilet just because... ORANGE MAN BAD!
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  #66  
Old 06-06-2019, 7:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam Adams View Post
Want to expand your 2A rights? How important is it to you? You have the option to move to a "free state" and expand your 2A rights immediately.

Frito is OK with California politics and democrat dominance.
His only problem is with the NRA ! Supposedly because they are not effective ! Read his entire rant in another thread !


"If my life revolved around guns then yeah, California would be an awful place to live. Thankfully that's not the case - and that's also the case for the overwhelming majority of the people in the state and in the country. Coincidentally, that also the overwhelming majority of the country that we need to reach and educate, and we're not gonna reach them by following the NRA's tried & failed strategy. "
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Old 06-06-2019, 7:23 AM
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Frito is OK with California politics and democrat dominance.
His only problem is with the NRA ! Supposedly because they are not effective ! Read his entire rant in another thread !


"If my life revolved around guns then yeah, California would be an awful place to live. Thankfully that's not the case - and that's also the case for the overwhelming majority of the people in the state and in the country. Coincidentally, that also the overwhelming majority of the country that we need to reach and educate, and we're not gonna reach them by following the NRA's tried & failed strategy. "
That's funny that you copy and paste that over without providing any context of what I was responding to. You think that it's OK to turn your brain off and just vote exactly how the NRA tells you to. I disagree. I don't let anyone tell me how I'm supposed to think or vote - and my politics aren't dictated by any one single issue because life is way more complicated than that. If you think only trying to bring people onboard who are single issue voters is a winning strategy - well... keep burying your head in the sand bro.

The dude the NRA told you to vote for President is saying he's looking at restricting American's access to suppressors. At the same time, he's looking at selling nuclear technology to the Saudis.

https://www.theamericanconservative....-build-a-bomb/

https://oversight.house.gov/sites/de...02-19-2019.pdf

What could possibly go wrong selling nuclear technology to the Saudis?

See what I mean about life being a little more complicated than just doing everything the NRA tells you to do?
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Old 06-06-2019, 7:39 AM
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Trump:Unarmed civilians are "sitting ducks"

https://mb.ntd.com/trump-unarmed-civ...ks_339579.html
Wtf? Piers said he actually supports people being able to have handguns for self defense but not assault rifles. He does know the guy used handguns....?


That clip was a bit concerning about Trumps stance but not as bad as it seemed out of context.
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Old 06-06-2019, 9:03 AM
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Do not look for much NRA support.

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Old 06-06-2019, 9:16 AM
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I seem to recall an election where there was talk on no longer requiring stamps for silencers and having nationwide conceal carry reciprocity. Oh, but then the media decided that it was a crisis. Sure is weird, this "media" thing, they all seem to act and move together like some sort of cabal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journo...alist_spin-off
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Old 06-06-2019, 9:53 AM
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We need to pick our battles. This is not a hill we should die on. You may now return to your regularly scheduled righteous indignation session.
You sound like every Republican who accomplished nothing or lead his party to defeat. A couple of good examples would be former House Speakers Boner & Ryan, two people who talked a good game and did nothing even when they had the Senate, and President backing them up.
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Old 06-06-2019, 10:03 AM
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While posting I was on hold with the NRA-ILA. The staffer I spoke could not tell me exactly the ILA statement but he was sure ILA opposed the effort to restrict firearms.

In an age of Fakebook Live & Periscope when guys walking down the street can effectively broadcast to thousand or even millions, it shouldn't take the NRA-ILA Director 3 days to put together a statement & upload a video.

Last edited by thmsmgnm; 06-06-2019 at 10:05 AM..
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  #73  
Old 06-06-2019, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by thmsmgnm View Post
While posting I was on hold with the NRA-ILA. The staffer I spoke could not tell me exactly the ILA statement but he was sure ILA opposed the effort to restrict firearms.

In an age of Fakebook Live & Periscope when guys walking down the street can effectively broadcast to thousand or even millions, it shouldn't take the NRA-ILA Director 3 days to put together a statement & upload a video.
That's outrageous. You should complain about it on the internet.
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Old 06-06-2019, 10:19 AM
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I disagree sir. What they should've done is what they did after Newtown- not compromise. I was actually quite amazed they didn't give something away after that, especially something as seemingly innocent as "background checks".

A flurry of bills were introduced after the vegas shooting, ranging from bump stock bans, banning online ammo sales, firearm tracking, handgun trigger regs, mag limits, waiting periods, multiple purchase reporting, assault weapon ban, etc. I don't believe for a second that the Trump/NRA/ATF bump stock tango- that took a year to come to fruition- killed every one of these bills. They died because the GOP controlled the House and Senate and they were DOA. If the GOP had just stalled long enough public support would've waned for gun control like it always does every time.

And to the point about the executive bump stock ban being challenged successfully in court, that doesn't appear to be going well at all. The SCOTUS let it go through without an injunction while individual cases get decided, effectively screwing everyone who owns one. If this was the Trump/NRA strategy it was severely misguided.
So you don't believe, That doesn't change the fact that a Politico poll released in October after Vegas found that 64% of voters support stricter gun laws. The delay and stall tactics taken by Trump and the NRA allowed time for people to calm down and let cooler heads prevail.

I find it interesting that anti-gun groups like everytown are smart enough to recognize this tactic,

https://everytown.org/press/icymi-nr...red-flag-laws/
"Given the NRA’s history – which includes slowing bipartisan momentum to prohibit bump stocks by suggesting that regulators, not lawmakers, should decide the legality of these devices – the question remains whether this is a sincere effort from the NRA, or an attempt to deflect."

and yet those who supposedly are supporters of the 2ndA aren't.
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Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
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Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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  #75  
Old 06-06-2019, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by thmsmgnm View Post
While posting I was on hold with the NRA-ILA. The staffer I spoke could not tell me exactly the ILA statement but he was sure ILA opposed the effort to restrict firearms.

In an age of Fakebook Live & Periscope when guys walking down the street can effectively broadcast to thousand or even millions, it shouldn't take the NRA-ILA Director 3 days to put together a statement & upload a video.
So go down to 11250 Waples Mill Rd, Fairfax, VA 22030, show your member card and demand an actual answer.
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  #76  
Old 06-06-2019, 11:01 AM
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So you don't believe, That doesn't change the fact that a Politico poll released in October after Vegas found that 64% of voters support stricter gun laws. The delay and stall tactics taken by Trump and the NRA allowed time for people to calm down and let cooler heads prevail.

I find it interesting that anti-gun groups like everytown are smart enough to recognize this tactic,

https://everytown.org/press/icymi-nr...red-flag-laws/
"Given the NRA’s history – which includes slowing bipartisan momentum to prohibit bump stocks by suggesting that regulators, not lawmakers, should decide the legality of these devices – the question remains whether this is a sincere effort from the NRA, or an attempt to deflect."

and yet those who supposedly are supporters of the 2ndA aren't.
It is a well established practice for the GOP to stall on gun control bills in the wake of a shooting, knowing full well public support for gun control will wane in the following months. With such contingency plans in place for these events (endless ways to stall in congress), it wasn't necessary for the president and the NRA to capitulate so easily. It only happened because the NRA doesn't give a damn about bump stocks or machine guns and it was the easy way out, and Trump and some state level republicans (think FL as a jaw-dropping example) took that as a green light for gun control.

Last edited by selfshrevident; 06-06-2019 at 11:04 AM..
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Old 06-06-2019, 11:31 AM
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I'm curious if anyone has been really paying attention or just jumping through the hoops put out by the media and anti-2A groups.

Everywhere I look there are gun owners storming about in outrage over Trump's offhanded comment on suppressors and then his comment to Morgan on the same subject.

Often, actually nearly always, it's the same people raging about the bump stock ban or the 'due process' comment and just as frequently it's fueled by a few '2A groups' hyping things up in emails and posts asking for donations to fight the latest crisis.

I'm wondering how many people have actually noticed that nearly every single recent trendy outrage has two things in common.

A) All are either clear cut violations either existing law or obvious regulatory overreach.

B) All will be challenged in court.

The third thing in common they have, the thing I want to know if anyone has been paying close enough attention to notice, is that Trump has been quietly appointing the judges that will hear these legal challenges and the vast majority of them are conservative or at least adherents of the Constitution.

Make the statement/create the regulation.
Force the lawsuit
Appoint the judge that will overturn the regulation/law
Create legal precedence that has the power of law without relying on Congress to actually do anything.

What an intriguing possibility...
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Old 06-06-2019, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
I'm curious if anyone has been really paying attention or just jumping through the hoops put out by the media and anti-2A groups.

Everywhere I look there are gun owners storming about in outrage over Trump's offhanded comment on suppressors and then his comment to Morgan on the same subject.

Often, actually nearly always, it's the same people raging about the bump stock ban or the 'due process' comment and just as frequently it's fueled by a few '2A groups' hyping things up in emails and posts asking for donations to fight the latest crisis.

I'm wondering how many people have actually noticed that nearly every single recent trendy outrage has two things in common.

A) All are either clear cut violations either existing law or obvious regulatory overreach.

B) All will be challenged in court.

The third thing in common they have, the thing I want to know if anyone has been paying close enough attention to notice, is that Trump has been quietly appointing the judges that will hear these legal challenges and the vast majority of them are conservative or at least adherents of the Constitution.

Make the statement/create the regulation.
Force the lawsuit
Appoint the judge that will overturn the regulation/law
Create legal precedence that has the power of law without relying on Congress to actually do anything.

What an intriguing possibility...
But doing this would actually require thinking logically and tactically. It's so much easier to act like liberals and automatically express outrage without any thought.
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Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet poeple still believe some conspiracy. The party p[icked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.
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Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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  #79  
Old 06-06-2019, 12:23 PM
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I understand the incrementalism/death by a thousand cuts argument, and have no quarrel with it. But there are continual attacks on our 2A rights, especially in lunatic-left controlled states like CA. Some of these attacks are more serious, more imminent than others, and this one is low priority. And, suppressors are already illegal here so in some respects we don't have a dog in that fight.

It's not that I don't care, it's that I recognize we have limited resources to marshal against actually LOSING our RKBA. We're not going to win every battle but we can still win the war.
Agree, mostly. And I don't subscribe to the "what happens in CA" inevitability as making its way to other states. In some regards CA is like the fellow who ate, drank and smoked too much in his youth and finds it catching up with him in old age. But I think we ought to hang together and avoid the "why should we care?" sentiment. It's just as easily directed against CA and if its gunowners participate in the mindset, makes it rather hard to reasonably object.

Taking advantage of a worthwhile day in history. The Allies spent time, effort and materiel' forming a phony invasion force against Calais. I think that approach serves better than telegraphing one's position on an issue.
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Old 06-06-2019, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
I'm curious if anyone has been really paying attention or just jumping through the hoops put out by the media and anti-2A groups.

Everywhere I look there are gun owners storming about in outrage over Trump's offhanded comment on suppressors and then his comment to Morgan on the same subject.

Often, actually nearly always, it's the same people raging about the bump stock ban or the 'due process' comment and just as frequently it's fueled by a few '2A groups' hyping things up in emails and posts asking for donations to fight the latest crisis.

I'm wondering how many people have actually noticed that nearly every single recent trendy outrage has two things in common.

A) All are either clear cut violations either existing law or obvious regulatory overreach.

B) All will be challenged in court.

The third thing in common they have, the thing I want to know if anyone has been paying close enough attention to notice, is that Trump has been quietly appointing the judges that will hear these legal challenges and the vast majority of them are conservative or at least adherents of the Constitution.

Make the statement/create the regulation.
Force the lawsuit
Appoint the judge that will overturn the regulation/law
Create legal precedence that has the power of law without relying on Congress to actually do anything.

What an intriguing possibility...
related to the above -

We all know what Speaker Pelosi, Senator Schumer, former President Obama & crew mean when they say "we support the 2nd Amendment". So do their supporters. It means they don't and are paying lip service to the pro-gun crowd. Why don't we accord our politicians the same level of "wink & nod" dissembling? Absent the President saying "suppressors through the mail" for everyone our side treats it as treason. Especially with CA state politicians.

George Bush's "I support the 1994 AWB" comment when it was sunsetting is a good example. "Supporting it" in 2004, which is when he made the comment, was a slippery way of saying he supported it going away. Because that was an integral part of the bill. The response appealed to anti-gunners, unfortunately some gunowners said "he's screwed us" and 15 years later it's still put forth as a negative.

And all the "NRA is losing it" articles. Certainly no accident they come out now, just ahead of presidential election season. NRA forms a significant part of the current President's base. The organization contributed about $36M in 2016. The articles are put into the media for a reason and to get results. Our approach should be to tend to whatever needs to be fixed rather than handwringing and casting stones.
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