Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-19-2019, 2:55 PM
robertkjjj's Avatar
robertkjjj robertkjjj is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 859
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Blog Entries: 1
Default How to increase NRA Membership

I keep reading how we have 90 million gun owners in America, yet only 6 million NRA members. And I keep thinking, how utterly disgraceful and mind-boggling it is, that such a small percentage of gun owners belong to the strongest pro-gun-rights group in the world. And I keep imagining how much stronger our position could be, if we could double or triple that percentage.
I mean, how much stronger would our hand be, if it had,say, 18 million members, rather than 6?

As it is, the 84 million gun owners who aren't in the NRA, are in effect getting a "free ride" from the ones who are. We're the ones who pay the fees, and help fight the fight, for the ones who don't. It's like a football offense where the center hikes the ball to himself, runs straight ahead, while his 10 teammates stand there and do squat.

I have an idea that might increase membership. I'm sure someone has thought of this already, or someone will poke holes in it. But hear me out.

Who are the biggest financial stakeholders? Who has the strongest interest in keeping guns in America free, besides we gun owners? Well, of course, it's the companies that make and sell firearms, gun parts,and ammo.

I think that the largest gun and ammo companies(e.g. Glock, Remington, S&W, Winchester, etc) need to get together with the NRA, and design a voluntary program in which NRA members get a noticeable discount on firearms purchases. Nobody would be required to be a NRA member to buy a firearm. But, if you were a NRA member, and you proved this before a purchase, you get the discount. Better yet, if you proved you were a LIFETIME member, the discount would be even higher.

You ask, well, how would these companies "pay" for this discount? That hasn't been worked out yet, but there could be multiple ways for them to recoup those discounts. Perhaps membership could be raised a tiny amount. Perhaps these companies could raise their prices a tiny amount. Perhaps people who are already lifetime members, could be targeted to chip in more money, to cover the costs of this program. Perhaps a combination of the above.

I'm sure there are brighter and more business-geared folks on here than me, who could pipe in on the pros and cons of this idea, or even suggest a better way to tweak this.

The idea is to keep our eyes on the GOAL: a vastly larger and more influential NRA. We have to grow. We can't just replace ourselves as we pass away. Each of us needs to have that goal of replacing ourselves with between 1.5 and 2 people. There are ways to accomplish this. We just need to find them.
__________________

NRA Lifetime Member. Hunter & Target Shooter.
San Diego County.
Passionate supporter of RTKBA.
Supporter of conceal and open-carry.

"It's called the Bill Of Rights. Not the Bill of Needs."

Acronyms
AR-15 Primer
CA firearms laws timeline
BLM land maps

Last edited by robertkjjj; 04-19-2019 at 3:00 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-19-2019, 3:17 PM
plinkr plinkr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 389
iTrader: 35 / 100%
Default

Y'all might want to read this and fact-check before sending more money to the NRA.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...4&share_type=t

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-20-2019, 6:28 AM
FresnoRob's Avatar
FresnoRob FresnoRob is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Fresno
Posts: 2,130
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by plinkr View Post
Y'all might want to read this and fact-check before sending more money to the NRA.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...4&share_type=t

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk
This ^^ Cleaning house and replacing them with 2A supporters with a backbone would do more to increase membership than any other action.
__________________
“No Kingdom can be secured otherwise than by arming the people. The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave.”
- James Burgh
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-20-2019, 7:39 AM
ja308's Avatar
ja308 ja308 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 10,269
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

No house cleaning is required ! The NRA is NEVER wrong ! Whether its factual info on gun use or politics.
We (NRA) know how to win and every gun owner should be a member.

To think the NRA helped elect President Trump and thinking without our help we might have had HILLDOG is Enough reason to join !

So friends do not read or listen to any source about the NRA that doesn't come from the NRA .
www.NRANEWS.com
__________________
"Both socialism & communism require a commitment to the use of force. You cannot decide what to do with the other guy’s money unless you are committed to use force to take that money from him..."
Rick Kelo
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams.
Who is John Galt!
Recent NRA LIFE ENDOWMENT MEMBER--on the way to PATRON. See you friends, in Nashville next April 2020.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-20-2019, 7:44 AM
THBailey's Avatar
THBailey THBailey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 468
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by plinkr View Post
Y'all might want to read this and fact-check before sending more money to the NRA.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...4&share_type=t

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk

The author of this article is Mike Spies. You might want to check his references and motivation before drawing conclusions on what he has written.

Having said that, I do agree with FresnoRob's point, but cleaning house probably requires the voting members of the NRA to elect appropriate directors.

And the OP makes a good point. Regardless of management, the NRA membership voting block is a political force to be reckoned with. Doubling or tripling it makes it more so.

Just my 2 cents.
__________________
THBailey


As Will Rogers once said:
"Everyone is ignorant, only in different subjects."

Last edited by THBailey; 04-20-2019 at 7:54 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-20-2019, 8:43 AM
readysetgo's Avatar
readysetgo readysetgo is offline
Win win win win
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Ventura County, Caught Between My Woman And My Pistol And My Chips
Posts: 8,445
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Butt first, they need to get rid of the 86 machine gun ban, then the 68 GCA then the 34 NFA.

Also need to fire everyone on the board and executive team with awesome youtube influencers.

Then maybe, kinda, I might, sorta send 'em an Andrew Jackson. Maybe.

Reality is 99% of the 96% of freeloaders are just gonna keep freeloading and posting stupid leftist articles to justify their lack of participation. The excuses are limitless and weak people use excuses like fat kids with cake.

Other than that, just keep recruiting as much as you personally can whenever you have an opportunity.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by teg33 View Post
Welcome, don't listen to readysetgo.
Stand up and be counted, or lay down and be mounted... -Mac


Last edited by readysetgo; 04-20-2019 at 8:46 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-20-2019, 8:44 AM
Kyle1886's Avatar
Kyle1886 Kyle1886 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: N. San Diego Co.
Posts: 1,949
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
No house cleaning is required ! The NRA is NEVER wrong ! Whether its factual info on gun use or politics.
We (NRA) know how to win and every gun owner should be a member.

To think the NRA helped elect President Trump and thinking without our help we might have had HILLDOG is Enough reason to join !

So friends do not read or listen to any source about the NRA that doesn't come from the NRA .
www.NRANEWS.com
I wonder just how many NRA members bothered to vote for the 2019 Board of Directors? As in politics, if you don't vote you ain't got a b..ch coming.

The same goes the other groups that are involved with maintaining our Constitutional freedoms

Respectfully
Kyle
__________________
Take responsibility for your own actions!

WE are the NRA.

"The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he's on". -Joseph Heller, novelist (1 May 1923-1999)
_________+__________
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-20-2019, 8:47 AM
robertkjjj's Avatar
robertkjjj robertkjjj is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 859
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Blog Entries: 1
Default

The majority of the thought leaders and top contributors on this forum have told us endlessly that we should assist and endorse the NRA. It has been this way as long as I can remember. I believe that this is still the case.

Heck, I currently belong to a private shooting range, where proving membership in the NRA is a prerequisite to joining and remaining. There are sound reasons for this policy.

Sadly though, it seems every time someone comes on this forum and supports the NRA, the first responses that come in are from critics who gleefully point out every single fault the NRA has. This is both disheartening and discouraging.

Is the NRA perfect? Of course not. Do they help California as much we think they should? No. Do they win every legal case they take on? Nope, but who does? Do they sometimes waste money? Sure, but then, so do all large companies and entities.

Having said that, the NRA is still the biggest, baddest, and strongest friend we gunners have. And I'd much rather have a large and imperfect friend, than no friend at all. And they fill that role well.

And I would ask, if not the NRA, who else? If you don't support the NRA, then who instead are you supporting? Which other national pro-gun organization are you giving your money to? GOA? NAGR? SAF? JPFO? FPC? Or, are you not contributing money to any of them? If so, then you are part of the problem, not the solution. After all, it’s far easier to sit back and b***h, than it is to step up and put some skin (and money) in the game.
It’s worth pointing out that the NRA is larger in membership and more well-funded than all the aforementioned pro-gun groups combined. If you’re a senator or a congressman, which group are you going to take that phone call from, an NRA rep, or one from GOA? Which person are you going to grant an appointment, a rep from the NRA, or one from SAF? I think we all know the answer. Politicians listen to influence, and influence is created by size, strength, and money.

There are folks on here that see fault in everything. I get it; we've all been beaten down and oppressed for so many years in this state, that it's hard to see any light at the end of the tunnel. And it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking, "Well, things are getting so bad in CA. The NRA must not be doing anything in this state to help us."

Don’t allow your quest for the mythical “perfect” pro-gun rights entity hinder and stymie your ability to contribute. The NRA isn’t perfect. Nobody is. And, as a wise person once said. “Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.”
Accept some faults in people and institutions that are in a position to help us. You’re not perfect. I’m not either. And neither are the organizations that are on our side. But for now, they’re the best chance we’ve got.
__________________

NRA Lifetime Member. Hunter & Target Shooter.
San Diego County.
Passionate supporter of RTKBA.
Supporter of conceal and open-carry.

"It's called the Bill Of Rights. Not the Bill of Needs."

Acronyms
AR-15 Primer
CA firearms laws timeline
BLM land maps
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-20-2019, 8:51 AM
plinkr plinkr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 389
iTrader: 35 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by THBailey View Post
The author of this article is Mike Spies. You might want to check his references and motivation before drawing conclusions on what he has written.

Having said that, I do agree with FresnoRob's point, but cleaning house probably requires the voting members of the NRA to elect appropriate directors.

And the OP makes a good point. Regardless of management, the NRA membership voting block is a political force to be reckoned with. Doubling or tripling it makes it more so.

Just my 2 cents.
Sure, he has an ax to grind. That, however, isn't the question. The real question should be, is the article accurate? Because if it is, you might want to think about whom you support, and who represents your interests.

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-20-2019, 9:05 AM
DolphinFan DolphinFan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 972
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

"How to increase NRA Membership"

I wouldn't mind seeing retailers having a mandatory NRA registration, at point of sale, upon a purchase or transfer of any firearm, unless you can show valid current membership. It would also create incentive for lifetime membership for regular buyers and sellers.

I'd rather see a fee supporting 2A than a fee that goes to the government who can't create enough ways to infringe on the 2A and uses fees to confiscate firearms (APPS).

What's an extra $45? and with mandatory NRA membership the fee could be reduced because of the greater volume to something like $25 for the first year. Just add it onto the price. Lifetime members or current members exempt.

But I do agree a housecleaning needs to take place and sweetheart deals should be re evaluated and sent out for competitive bid.

IF they lose their tax status it's all over. Although after bankruptcy, someone could revive the brand under new management.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-20-2019, 9:15 AM
Python6357 Python6357 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 470
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
No house cleaning is required ! The NRA is NEVER wrong ! Whether its factual info on gun use or politics.
We (NRA) know how to win and every gun owner should be a member.

To think the NRA helped elect President Trump and thinking without our help we might have had HILLDOG is Enough reason to join !

So friends do not read or listen to any source about the NRA that doesn't come from the NRA .
www.NRANEWS.com
This right here is what's wrong with our country. Blind loyalty is a dangerous thing. And I love how if you don't give money to the NRA you're a "free loader". I refuse to give money just so some rich guy can maintain his lifestyle and the NRA can use it to take more of my rights away. There are other organizations that ACTUALLY use their donations to fight for 2A rights. People don't support the NRA because it is a sham. The leadership at the NRA care only about making money, not your rights. And voting them out? You have about the same odds of electing a president that will repeal all anti 2a laws. It's just as corrupt as regular politics. The NRA wastes so much money and misuses even more. When the top people at the NRA stop making millions of dollars a year and they stop supporting anti-gun laws, then maybe more people will join.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-20-2019, 9:36 AM
dogrunner dogrunner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: E/Central Fl
Posts: 146
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Python6357 View Post
This right here is what's wrong with our country. Blind loyalty is a dangerous thing. And I love how if you don't give money to the NRA you're a "free loader". I refuse to give money just so some rich guy can maintain his lifestyle and the NRA can use it to take more of my rights away. There are other organizations that ACTUALLY use their donations to fight for 2A rights. People don't support the NRA because it is a sham. The leadership at the NRA care only about making money, not your rights. And voting them out? You have about the same odds of electing a president that will repeal all anti 2a laws. It's just as corrupt as regular politics. The NRA wastes so much money and misuses even more. When the top people at the NRA stop making millions of dollars a year and they stop supporting anti-gun laws, then maybe more people will join.


Not exactly so! I'd strongly suggest you review the takeover lead by Neal Knox back in '77.

At that time the NRA was in fact trying to abandon its role as an advocate for those of us that are true believers........the plan was to cut and run to NM, which is where the Whittington Center has it's origins. Had Knox an others not pulled off their coup we'd likely be in a situation similar to England or Canada/New Zealand now.

I understand the disaffection now existing and I agree that there are problems with NRA leadership on both the national and state levels........my state is easily definable as one of the latter wherein an ex NRA pres. has apparently atrophied and let a lot of crap slide, yet holds that leadership post.

Perhaps another bloodletting in our organization is needed, but that takes leadership.....dissident leadership.....and I'm damned if I see that currently existing....I DO see a hulluva lot of ***** and moan that goes no where.

'No, the NRA is sure not perfect, but like it or not it is truly the only game in town that anyone really listenes to...........I just wish to hell someone with real credibility of the Knox variety would step up to the plate!



I'd like to add that in point of fact there truly are 'free loaders'............some of that sorry bunch are personal friends that no amount of reason can pursuade otherwise.......some are lazy, some just plain dumb. Try, try not to be one of those!

Last edited by dogrunner; 04-20-2019 at 9:40 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-20-2019, 9:48 AM
YubaRiver YubaRiver is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: From Polaris to the Redoubt
Posts: 988
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Knox's coup didn't last.

"Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2019/04/nra...#ixzz5lev7WI1v
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

Over 20 years ago, my father, Neal Knox, as First Vice President of the NRA and just one year away from taking the reins as President, threw a red flag on the practices of Ack-Mac and Wayne LaPierre. He questioned the expensive, intrusive, and heavy-handed fundraising tactics, such as constant, over-hyped letters, phone calls, and fundraising letters sent by registered mail, and the exorbitant sums being paid to the PR company. He demanded reforms in the association’s fundraising methods and specifics on contracts and billing details involving Ack-Mac and other vendors. Both he and Second Vice President Albert Ross refused to sign the hefty, monthly checks being cut to Ack-Mac, and a major battle for control of the NRA ensued. It wasn’t like the 1977 Cincinnati fight for the soul and destiny of the organization. The new dust-up was between the Board and the staff for control of the organization’s checkbook.

The upshot of that battle was that Wayne won, Dad lost, and the fast-and-loose money games continued and just got worse."
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-20-2019, 11:03 AM
Python6357 Python6357 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 470
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

I've read about the Knox coup, the NRA remains unchanged. Yes, the NRA is the loudest voice for 2A, but it's not saying the right things. The GOA is smaller, with not even half as many members, yet it does more in terms of fighting than the NRA does. It is also a true non-profit organization. No one in the GOA is making millions of dollars a year. The GOA has a no compromise stance which is exactly what we should all be getting behind. They use all the money they get to fight for our rights instead of fear mongering ads, flashy media actors, and stupid "give us money" events. Instead of trying to fix the broken NRA, why not get more people behind an organization that already shares our values and gets results.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-20-2019, 11:31 AM
dogrunner dogrunner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: E/Central Fl
Posts: 146
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Well, Yuba, that coup may not have garnered the totality of results we'd like or had hoped for, but if your father hadn't sparked that revolt I am convinced we'd be a hulluva lot further behind that 8 ball than we are.

For what it's worth your father will always have my sincere admiration and regard. The fact remains that we desperatly need another like him..............all these splinter groups, each claiming to be the prophet serve us no good plate and in fact serve to contribute to discord that ought not to be.

I repeat, I stand with the NRA solely and simply because it truly is the only national group that holds nationwide credibility............if not, why then the constant negative connotation presswise..........hell, I have NEVER seen JFPO editorialized against and I gotta believe that some of the groups that solicit are no more than shell game players.

It occurs, you got the name....for real!......why not step up?



While I'm at it..........just whyinhell is it that the Whittington Center even exists.......I would far rather see our resources aimed toward the hard line issues that apparently the nay NRA sayers advocate than pissed away on a sports complex that most of us will never get a shot at...................that place was THE point of discord in the 70's and ought to have been wiped from consideration!

Last edited by dogrunner; 04-20-2019 at 11:35 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-20-2019, 11:45 AM
readysetgo's Avatar
readysetgo readysetgo is offline
Win win win win
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Ventura County, Caught Between My Woman And My Pistol And My Chips
Posts: 8,445
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Python6357 View Post
gets results.
Can you share some measurable “results” this group you’re advocating as an alternative has achieved?

Not being facetious and won’t move the goal post, simply share what GOA has actually achieved.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-20-2019, 11:58 AM
Python6357 Python6357 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 470
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by readysetgo View Post
Can you share some measurable “results” this group you’re advocating as an alternative has achieved?

Not being facetious and won’t move the goal post, simply share what GOA has actually achieved.
The GOA is actively fighting red flag laws, the bump stock ban, and is even challenging the '34 NFA right now. Not saying they are going to win all that, but at least they're fighting. The NRA supported the bump stock ban and supports red flag laws. I refuse to support an organization that sides with the enemy. Their homepage shows the current lawsuits they are involved in.

https://www.gunowners.com/
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-20-2019, 11:58 AM
wpage's Avatar
wpage wpage is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,739
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

NRA needs extreme house cleaning. Starting with firing the marketing team that has fleeses the org since over 40 years ago. The sweetheart deal for exclusive and never changeing advertizing firm has become a good old boy scam that goes beyond reason.

Million dollar + salaries for Wayne LaPierre and other fat cats that have been around for too long are another problem with the org.

If the NRA plans to remain tax exempt they best get thier act together very soon.
\
Getting the NRA together will attracked new members and revenues.
__________________
God so loved the world He gave His only Son... Believe in Him and have everlasting life.
John 3:16

United Air Epic Fail Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u99Q7pNAjvg
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-20-2019, 12:00 PM
readysetgo's Avatar
readysetgo readysetgo is offline
Win win win win
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Ventura County, Caught Between My Woman And My Pistol And My Chips
Posts: 8,445
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Also, the conversation is being deflected, that it's strictly about WHICH organization.

Patently false. OP's concerns apply across the board.

If NRA has 6 mil, GOA has 1 mil, SAF 500k, other groups combined 500k, some other type of activism occurring with say another 2 million individuals...you're still at 10 million people with some kind of skin in the game. That's still ~ 90% slacktivism.

Those in the 90% will state unlimited variations of why they don't contribute. The fact remains, they reap the benefits while contributing little to nothing in the effort to get to that point.

Arguing if's and but's, "if NRA would only do x" if GOA would only do y" "but some group did z" and thinking that would result in some massive upswing in participation is fantasy land.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-20-2019, 12:04 PM
dogrunner dogrunner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: E/Central Fl
Posts: 146
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

And to readyset's point I'd add that I fail to recall Billy Bob Clinton crediting GOA or ANY other group less the NRA for the congressional rollover during his 2nd term..............Gun lobby's popular defination equates to NRA in the national press.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-20-2019, 12:07 PM
readysetgo's Avatar
readysetgo readysetgo is offline
Win win win win
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Ventura County, Caught Between My Woman And My Pistol And My Chips
Posts: 8,445
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Python6357 View Post
The GOA is actively fighting red flag laws, the bump stock ban, and is even challenging the '34 NFA right now. Not saying they are going to win all that, but at least they're fighting. The NRA supported the bump stock ban and supports red flag laws. I refuse to support an organization that sides with the enemy. Their homepage shows the current lawsuits they are involved in.

https://www.gunowners.com/
Thanks. You haven't included any "results" in your examples.

You stated (paraphrasing) "let's get behind an org that shares values and gets results."

I'm asking because I literally can't think of an actual accomplishment that can be credited to GOA.

FYI, I am not anti-GOA and I consider myself above average informed on 2a accomplishments but it's a big country and lots of action so it's entirely possible I've missed GOA's big accomplishments. Also, if it helps I am a member of GOC (GOA's state affiliate) and love seeing Sam Parades standing up for us in Sacramento year after year but I don't have any illusions it's very effective in combating anti-gun legislation and wouldn't describe it as "results."
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-20-2019, 3:00 PM
THBailey's Avatar
THBailey THBailey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 468
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by plinkr View Post
Sure, he has an ax to grind. That, however, isn't the question. The real question should be, is the article accurate? Because if it is, you might want to think about whom you support, and who represents your interests.

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk

I am not a forensic cpa by any stretch of the imagination, but I have been around audits and annual reports a fair bit. Perhaps I missed it, but nothing in the audit report stands out as problematic. The Spies hit piece throws around, completely out of context, money numbers that look way large and shocking to the average person. But in the realm of national organizations running national advertising campaigns? Perhaps not at all out of line. I mean, 30 seconds on the Superbowl costs over $5 Million, and that's just to run it, doesn't include production costs. Beto O'Rourke spent over $79 Million on the failed senate bid, and that was just one district in Texas. Perhaps not directly relevant to the point, I agree, but it does illustrate the type of fiscal horsepower we are up against. And I must admit I am pretty impressed with the quality and persuasiveness of the nationally run NRA TV adds in the last few years. I bet those national add campaigns are way expensive, what do you think? Seems like the NRA may well be getting their money's worth.

The real point behind all this is the political power of the NRA. The power arises from the solid voting block of NRA members. At times the NRA has, and still can, deliver campaign deciding votes. Mike Spies and his handlers want to destroy that power by sowing distrust to split up that block. Reading the posts it appears Mr. Spies and company are making progress.

Rather than capitulate, why don't we work together to double or triple the size of that voting block?
__________________
THBailey


As Will Rogers once said:
"Everyone is ignorant, only in different subjects."
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-20-2019, 3:17 PM
bababoris bababoris is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,274
iTrader: 28 / 100%
Default

Interesting read
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/04/nra...-cleans-house/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-20-2019, 3:24 PM
FresnoRob's Avatar
FresnoRob FresnoRob is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Fresno
Posts: 2,130
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

I am still an NRA life member. I still hold out hope that it will right itself somehow. They still have more clout than any other 2A organization. The problem as I stated earlier is spineless leaders who are more concerned with empire building than protecting the rights of gun owners. Some will say concessions must be made to make deals. But the antis are destroying our rights a bit at a time with very little positive to show on our side. Yes there is a small blip of hope once in a blue moon I.e. Freedom Week but they are few and far between. I doubt anyone with half a brain will say as gun owners we are better off than we were 40 years ago.
__________________
“No Kingdom can be secured otherwise than by arming the people. The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave.”
- James Burgh
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-20-2019, 4:39 PM
Noble Cause Noble Cause is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: California
Posts: 2,531
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bababoris View Post
Interesting read
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/04/nra...-cleans-house/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I agree, its an interesting read.

Its an opinion piece by Jeff Knox:


NRA’s Dirty Laundry Exposed as Pro-Gun Group Cleans House
Ammoland Inc. Posted on April 20, 2019 by Jeff Knox:

"On April 12, the National Rifle Association filed suit in a Virginia court,
accusing their long-time PR company, Ackerman McQueen, of failing to
provide detailed billing, and failure to disclose contracts with NRA staff
and officers that might demonstrate a conflict of interest, including an
Ack-Mac contract with NRA President Ollie North.

As the news of the shocking lawsuit made the rounds of mainstream media
and was just sinking in – especially to most of the members of the NRA
Board of Directors, who had no advance warning about the suit – a new
exposé on the shady dealings of NRA insiders was published by The New
Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-d...ed-at-the-nra/).

That article, shedding new light on lousy business, showed that this isn’t
just NRA leaders in a nasty mess of their own making, but a deeply
embedded cancer that has metastasized, putting the NRA itself in
serious jeopardy
."




I'm still absorbing the information, thinking it through.

Because of the original source material, Bloomberg's The Trace
and Anti-NRA specialist Mike Spies, I have been very dismissive
regarding this issue, since up to this point in time, Bloomberg's
Minions have never told the truth, so this might be a First.

In short, I would never trust something generated by Bloomberg,
but I will consider what Jeff Knox has to say on the matter.

I would suggest everyone give it a read.


Noble
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-20-2019, 5:27 PM
njineermike's Avatar
njineermike njineermike is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: CO
Posts: 9,802
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by plinkr View Post
Y'all might want to read this and fact-check before sending more money to the NRA.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...4&share_type=t

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk
Linking to anti 2A articles should be a permaban.
__________________
NRA lifetime member
2AF Defender member

When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"?

Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Dude went full CNN...
Peace, love, and heavy weapons. Sometimes you have to be insistent." - David Lee Roth
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-20-2019, 5:39 PM
plinkr plinkr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 389
iTrader: 35 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njineermike View Post
Linking to anti 2A articles should be a permaban.
Please share with us the exact anti-2A portion of the article. Unless you want to say that anti-NRA is the same thing. If that is true, the GOA is also anti-2A. That is retarded logic.

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-20-2019, 5:53 PM
plinkr plinkr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 389
iTrader: 35 / 100%
Default

Maybe this guy is anti-2A as well...

https://youtu.be/wlLd-sF99us

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-21-2019, 9:25 AM
Jimi Jah's Avatar
Jimi Jah Jimi Jah is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North San Diego County
Posts: 13,557
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Elect another socialist president?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-21-2019, 3:22 PM
njineermike's Avatar
njineermike njineermike is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: CO
Posts: 9,802
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by plinkr View Post
Please share with us the exact anti-2A portion of the article. Unless you want to say that anti-NRA is the same thing. If that is true, the GOA is also anti-2A. That is retarded logic.

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk
Well, since it's been repeatedly pointed out WHY it's anti 2A, maybe you should actually take the time to read, because reading for you is not my job.

And as for your second post, I don't click random links. Maybe you should actually do some more work and post the thumbnail instead.
__________________
NRA lifetime member
2AF Defender member

When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"?

Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Dude went full CNN...
Peace, love, and heavy weapons. Sometimes you have to be insistent." - David Lee Roth
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 04-21-2019, 3:27 PM
plinkr plinkr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 389
iTrader: 35 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njineermike View Post
Well, since it's been repeatedly pointed out WHY it's anti 2A, maybe you should actually take the time to read, because reading for you is not my job.



And as for your second post, I don't click random links. Maybe you should actually do some more work and post the thumbnail instead.
What a copout. If you're too lazy or too scared of seeing anything that challenges your delicate world view, just admit it man. As for a permaban, if having different opinions to yours is grounds for a ban, I'd rather not be a part of such a group.

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 04-21-2019, 3:59 PM
njineermike's Avatar
njineermike njineermike is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: CO
Posts: 9,802
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by plinkr View Post
What a copout. If you're too lazy or too scared of seeing anything that challenges your delicate world view, just admit it man. As for a permaban, if having different opinions to yours is grounds for a ban, I'd rather not be a part of such a group.

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk
Like I said, it's been done. All you have to do is read everything in the thread. I'm not going to cut and paste it. If you are so threatened you feel the need to leave, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
__________________
NRA lifetime member
2AF Defender member

When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"?

Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Dude went full CNN...
Peace, love, and heavy weapons. Sometimes you have to be insistent." - David Lee Roth
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 04-21-2019, 4:50 PM
plinkr plinkr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 389
iTrader: 35 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njineermike View Post
Like I said, it's been done. All you have to do is read everything in the thread. I'm not going to cut and paste it. If you are so threatened you feel the need to leave, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Hahahaha. Nice try, snowflake. You're the one who suggested banning me. I'm very scared, you seem like a tough guy, some kind of keyboard warrior. I'm not a tough guy, but I have known some, and they are generally very polite and gentle. If you state your argument I will read it and consider its merits. Your bloviating is boring.

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 04-21-2019, 6:11 PM
njineermike's Avatar
njineermike njineermike is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: CO
Posts: 9,802
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by plinkr View Post
Hahahaha. Nice try, snowflake. You're the one who suggested banning me. I'm very scared, you seem like a tough guy, some kind of keyboard warrior. I'm not a tough guy, but I have known some, and they are generally very polite and gentle. If you state your argument I will read it and consider its merits. Your bloviating is boring.

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk
Boohoo. It's all there to read. Feel free. Or not. I don't really care what you do. But linking to a thread pointing out why it's anti 2A, then using an appeal to authority logical fallacy along with ad hominem shows weakness.
__________________
NRA lifetime member
2AF Defender member

When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"?

Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Dude went full CNN...
Peace, love, and heavy weapons. Sometimes you have to be insistent." - David Lee Roth
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 04-21-2019, 6:16 PM
plinkr plinkr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 389
iTrader: 35 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njineermike View Post
Boohoo. It's all there to read. Feel free. Or not. I don't really care what you do. But linking to a thread pointing out why it's anti 2A, then using an appeal to authority logical fallacy along with ad hominem shows weakness.
Ooh, big words from someone who has been unable to show a single item in the article that is anti-2A. Not saying the author isn't anti-2A, just that the article focuses on the NRA's financial and legal troubles. Which you would know if you had read it. Or watched the Guns&Gadgets video. But you didn't so you can't, resorting instead to this childish rant. For the last time, either state an argument, or don't. Either way, I am done with you.

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 04-21-2019, 6:23 PM
njineermike's Avatar
njineermike njineermike is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: CO
Posts: 9,802
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by plinkr View Post
Ooh, big words from someone who has been unable to show a single item in the article that is anti-2A. Not saying the author isn't anti-2A, just that the article focuses on the NRA's financial and legal troubles. Which you would know if you had read it. Or watched the Guns&Gadgets video. But you didn't so you can't, resorting instead to this childish rant. For the last time, either state an argument, or don't. Either way, I am done with you.

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk
So now a vocabulary is bad. Gotcha.
__________________
NRA lifetime member
2AF Defender member

When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"?

Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Dude went full CNN...
Peace, love, and heavy weapons. Sometimes you have to be insistent." - David Lee Roth
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 04-21-2019, 7:44 PM
Suresh*t's Avatar
Suresh*t Suresh*t is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 242
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
I agree, its an interesting read.

Its an opinion piece by Jeff Knox:


NRA’s Dirty Laundry Exposed as Pro-Gun Group Cleans House
Ammoland Inc. Posted on April 20, 2019 by Jeff Knox:

"On April 12, the National Rifle Association filed suit in a Virginia court,
accusing their long-time PR company, Ackerman McQueen, of failing to
provide detailed billing, and failure to disclose contracts with NRA staff
and officers that might demonstrate a conflict of interest, including an
Ack-Mac contract with NRA President Ollie North.

As the news of the shocking lawsuit made the rounds of mainstream media
and was just sinking in – especially to most of the members of the NRA
Board of Directors, who had no advance warning about the suit – a new
exposé on the shady dealings of NRA insiders was published by The New
Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-d...ed-at-the-nra/).

That article, shedding new light on lousy business, showed that this isn’t
just NRA leaders in a nasty mess of their own making, but a deeply
embedded cancer that has metastasized, putting the NRA itself in
serious jeopardy
."




I'm still absorbing the information, thinking it through.

Because of the original source material, Bloomberg's The Trace
and Anti-NRA specialist Mike Spies, I have been very dismissive
regarding this issue, since up to this point in time, Bloomberg's
Minions have never told the truth, so this might be a First.

In short, I would never trust something generated by Bloomberg,
but I will consider what Jeff Knox has to say on the matter.

I would suggest everyone give it a read.


Noble
There's very troubling information in that article. NRA has been wasting money for years.

It was being discussed in this thread, but people preferred to remain willfully ignorant of the truth:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1527121
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 04-21-2019, 7:46 PM
Suresh*t's Avatar
Suresh*t Suresh*t is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 242
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njineermike View Post
Linking to anti 2A articles should be a permaban.
It's not an anti-NRA article. Anyone who won't tolerate criticism or scrutiny of the NRA is a FUD. don't be a fascist FUD. read that article 1st.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 04-21-2019, 8:10 PM
readysetgo's Avatar
readysetgo readysetgo is offline
Win win win win
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Ventura County, Caught Between My Woman And My Pistol And My Chips
Posts: 8,445
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suresh*t View Post
It's not an anti-NRA article.
I’ve got beach front property at a great price for you.

Just because something might be factual doesn’t mean they don’t have an agenda.

That article is absolutely anti-NRA which also makes it anti-2a.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by teg33 View Post
Welcome, don't listen to readysetgo.
Stand up and be counted, or lay down and be mounted... -Mac

Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 04-21-2019, 8:41 PM
frankm's Avatar
frankm frankm is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Occupied Vespuchia
Posts: 10,310
iTrader: 26 / 100%
Default

I'd sign up again if they wouldn't call me constantly and send me mail spam.
__________________
RKBA Clock: soap box, ballot box, jury box, cartridge box (moved right 11/10/18, with Kavanaugh and Newsom we sit on the edge of a knife)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 5:40 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.