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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #201  
Old 07-03-2019, 8:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
No it has the stink of a big democrat media trying to destroy the NRA with innuendo, false charges, and class warfare! Innocent people have lots to fear if people like you are called to jury service!


Are you even a dues paying member of the NRA ? Most of the complainers on this board are not.
I am. For about 30 years.... Not too much longer. This isn't a dem issue, its an internal struggle within the NRA over some people living like kings off our dues.

The lawsuit against cox and North is a SLAAP suit, trying to keep them quiet. I just went through the same crap in my HOA.

Wayne has to go. He has put himself before the duty of the NRA, to serve its members. he is serving himself.

He is an egomaniac.
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  #202  
Old 07-03-2019, 8:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
That is his entire agenda.

Why else would someone log in from West Virginia after years of inactivity and post SOLELY about the evils of the NRA?
Maybe I am tired of watching people polish Wayne's knob when he is burning down the NRA and shoving the $$$ into his pocket?

Meanwhile are various efforts by people to contact NRA BoD members and get their explanation for why Wayne is still the EVP. Some BoD members are not comfortable with current events, others are vomiting up the NRA talking points assuring people everything is being done according to the rules and they are following various laws in oversight of the NRA. Meaning, shut up, send us your money, and we will spend it as we like. While those members are at least trying to make headway, many here still sing the tune of How Great is Wayne.

Last edited by thmsmgnm; 07-03-2019 at 8:43 PM..
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  #203  
Old 07-03-2019, 8:45 PM
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Originally Posted by thmsmgnm View Post
Maybe I am tired of watching people polish Wayne's knob
Maybe you need to learn to speak like an adult, preferably one that follows the rules.
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  #204  
Old 07-04-2019, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
I am. For about 30 years.... Not too much longer. This isn't a dem issue, its an internal struggle within the NRA over some people living like kings off our dues.

The lawsuit against cox and North is a SLAAP suit, trying to keep them quiet. I just went through the same crap in my HOA.

Wayne has to go. He has put himself before the duty of the NRA, to serve its members. he is serving himself.

He is an egomaniac.
Exactly who should replace him since your the expert here.
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  #205  
Old 07-04-2019, 2:05 PM
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Someone who has not be slopping at the trough for 20 years would be a good start. Maybe look to VCDL or one of the other groups for leaders.
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  #206  
Old 07-04-2019, 2:16 PM
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Someone who has not be slopping at the trough for 20 years would be a good start. Maybe look to VCDL or one of the other groups for leaders.
ONE TRICK PONY !
Yeah someone like Bloomberg wants !
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  #207  
Old 07-05-2019, 7:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Maybe you need to learn to speak like an adult, preferably one that follows the rules.
How else would you describe the defense of a guy who spends $29k in air travel to the Bahamas on the NRA dime? Not to mention the other charges for air travel, hotels in foreign countries have exactly nothing to do with NRA's work or mission here in the United States? I am sure people can do, but how do they defend it when NRA employees are getting their pensions frozen.
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  #208  
Old 07-05-2019, 8:02 AM
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Originally Posted by thmsmgnm View Post
How else would you describe the defense of a guy who spends $29k in air travel to the Bahamas on the NRA dime? Not to mention the other charges for air travel, hotels in foreign countries have exactly nothing to do with NRA's work or mission here in the United States? I am sure people can do, but how do they defend it when NRA employees are getting their pensions frozen.
ONE TRICK PONY up what 128 ANTI NRA POSTS out of 136. Seriously dude get a life. NO ONE BELIEVES YOUR SOURCES !
YOUR DONE HERE !
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  #209  
Old 07-05-2019, 8:03 AM
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Is there a source to the NRA people getting pensions frozen?
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  #210  
Old 07-05-2019, 8:07 AM
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OMG I get it

NRA BAD
Orange Man BAD
America BAD
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Americans vs. Democrats
We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross


We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.
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  #211  
Old 07-05-2019, 8:16 AM
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Originally Posted by eta34 View Post
Is there a source to the NRA people getting pensions frozen?
Sure some anti gun zero credibility garbage outfit.
This is an internal battle that will play out eventually. It is currently a non story except for a few antigun anti trump cal gunners.

"THE LIBERAL WAR ON YOU! "
This link while not specifically mentioning the NRA it does give examples the globalist cabals fighting back. One such attack is to discredit the NRA to reduce their considerable influence and slow recruiting!

Kurt Schlichter
The Liberal War On You

"We are witnessing the death of the liberal political machine that the elite has operated since the end of World War II, and everything that it is doing to conservatives right now – the censorship, the threats, the intimidation, the violence – is proof that it is dying. These are not the acts of an ideology in ascendance but rather of a scurrilous political paradigm in precipitous decline. And it’s only going to get worse as those losing their grip on political and cultural power desperately try to hold onto it in the face of our populist revolt."...

https://townhall.com/columnists/kurt...7-fd12ba52dd09
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Last edited by ja308; 07-05-2019 at 8:22 AM..
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  #212  
Old 07-05-2019, 8:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
ONE TRICK PONY !
Yeah someone like Bloomberg wants !
You apparently know little about the VCDL and other groups that have been making progress on gun control laws and regulations only to see the NRA claim credit, in many cases opposing the efforts of the groups.

Restaurants & Bar bans were supported by the NRA in VA & other states despite actions by local state organizations to remove them. In Virginia the NRA was successful in stifling the bills to remove or alter those laws for several years. They continued to oppose them right up until the passage was certain, then they supported the bills.

Just in the last several weeks while the NRA was eating it's own tail the VCDL organized their members to get out to the Hampton town hall on guns and confronted Gov Blackface of VA and several of his aides and allies.

Most of these groups have several thousand of members yet they punch above their class.
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  #213  
Old 07-05-2019, 8:26 AM
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Originally Posted by thmsmgnm View Post
How else would you describe the defense of a guy who spends $29k in air travel to the Bahamas on the NRA dime? Not to mention the other charges for air travel, hotels in foreign countries have exactly nothing to do with NRA's work or mission here in the United States? I am sure people can do, but how do they defend it when NRA employees are getting their pensions frozen.
People keep conflating defending WLP with defending the NRA and the Second Amendment. I think it's important to separate the man from the Cause. He is not the NRA, we the members are. He works for us, and he is accountable to us.

Part of being a good leader for the organization and a good advocate is also being a good steward of the millions of dollars the organization receives. The NRA is constantly reminding us through phone calls, letters and e-mail that it needs more money in order to defend our rights... but when we see instances of those resources being squandered so carelessly, it behooves us as responsible adults and responsible gun owners to question how and why our money is being spent on these things.

It's not Wayne's money to dispose of however he sees fit, it's our money, because we are the NRA. We've just entrusted him to spend it in a way that serves our interests and when there's evidence that he's failing to do that, why are those of us who ask questions and demand answers seen as "the enemy within"? If you honestly haven't even begun to question the going-ons in the organization and your automatic reaction is to jump to WPL's defense regardless of any new information coming to the forefront, that honestly makes you seem like you're being driven by emotion instead of logic.
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  #214  
Old 07-05-2019, 8:31 AM
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Originally Posted by eta34 View Post
Is there a source to the NRA people getting pensions frozen?
Public letter from a former NRA employee Andrew Lander.

https://www.facebook.com/andrew.land...57115511054061

Quote:
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but it is to my understanding that the BOD knew a year in advance of how NRA Employees retirements were going to be frozen and run the risk of not existing at all. Yet before employees received the letter notifying them of the possibility of having little to no retirement. Mr. Lapierre and a few other executives cashed out their retirements so they wouldn’t loose any money. I’m not an attorney but this appears very fishy and has the appearance of what in the business world is referred to as insider trading. This is not just a moral violation but one would wonder if it would follow into the realm of possible criminal behavior? When I started at NRA, I was still eligible to be in the NRA retirement program, I was hired in 2004 as a membership specialist at starting salary of $28,000 a year working in one the richest counties in America. The retirement was stopped, (IIRC by the BOD) in 2007 for all new employees. The letter shows exponential drops in percentages as well as 13.3 million dollar funding short fall for 2018, a 4.5 million dollar funding short fall for 2017, and $0.00 shortfall for 2016 for non NRA executives retirement funds. This letter was dated April 15, 2019 and was from Ms. Shawn Soto from NRA Human Resources.
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  #215  
Old 07-05-2019, 8:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Frito Bandido View Post
People keep conflating defending WLP with defending the NRA and the Second Amendment. I think it's important to separate the man from the Cause. He is not the NRA, we the members are. He works for us, and he is accountable to us.

Part of being a good leader for the organization and a good advocate is also being a good steward of the millions of dollars the organization receives. The NRA is constantly reminding us through phone calls, letters and e-mail that it needs more money in order to defend our rights... but when we see instances of those resources being squandered so carelessly, it behooves us as responsible adults and responsible gun owners to question how and why our money is being spent on these things.

It's not Wayne's money to dispose of however he sees fit, it's our money, because we are the NRA. We've just entrusted him to spend it in a way that serves our interests and when there's evidence that he's failing to do that, why are those of us who ask questions and demand answers seen as "the enemy within"? If you honestly haven't even begun to question the going-ons in the organization and your automatic reaction is to jump to WPL's defense regardless of any new information coming to the forefront, that honestly makes you seem like you're being driven by emotion instead of logic.

The problem is at this point Wayne LaPuke is the NRA. Whether we like it or not.

There is currently an effort to contact NRA BoD members that is being undertaken by NRA members. Some of the BoD members are beginning to say that they are worried. Most are issuing canned responses similar to our buddy 803. Which is looks like something they have been given from NRAHQ since they response look so much alike. Think tv news when all the talking heads are using the same buzz words or phrases.
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  #216  
Old 07-05-2019, 8:59 AM
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Thanks for the link. Other than this letter, have there been any other retirees who have stated that their pensions have been frozen?
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  #217  
Old 07-05-2019, 9:49 AM
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Originally Posted by thmsmgnm View Post
The problem is at this point Wayne LaPuke is the NRA. Whether we like it or not.

There is currently an effort to contact NRA BoD members that is being undertaken by NRA members. Some of the BoD members are beginning to say that they are worried. Most are issuing canned responses similar to our buddy 803. Which is looks like something they have been given from NRAHQ since they response look so much alike. Think tv news when all the talking heads are using the same buzz words or phrases.
ONE TRICK PONY 137 post 129 anti trump anti NRA !
ZERO CREDIBILITY SOROS TROLL !

Friends you dont see this as suspicious ! 10 or 12 posts NOT RELATED TO BASHING NRA. 129 BASHING NRA and TRUMP !

TAKING DOWN NRA IS HIS ONLY INTEREST .
THIS GUY IS NOT ONE OF US !
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  #218  
Old 07-05-2019, 12:22 PM
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GaJ038 You sound just like the talking points being given to the NRA BoD who think there is nothing wrong with the NRA right now. 'It is all Bloomberg' or 'some nefarious people who wants to destroy the NRA.' While ignoring the fact that NRA insiders are doing more damage to the NRA than Bloomberg, the NY AG, or any Democrat in Congress could ever hope to do.

So far we have learned that the NRA is borrowing money from the ILA and other programs. We also found out the NRA charging the Foundation $6 million a year in rent. Only handful of people know what the other division like the ILA is getting charged for their offices space. I can see the NRA charging the NRA Museum, NRA PVF rent as well.

On top of all this we know that any BoD or Officer who asks questions about the finances are either stonewalled or removed. But hey it all Bloomberg's fault. Or the fault of NRA members who don't shut up and just donate.


Let us try a mental exercise. Call it HOW MANY LIFE MEMBERSHIPS DID THAT TAKE. For example a fully paid Life Membership is $1.500.

To cover the cost of the AckMac Contract in 2018 it would take 27,334 fully paid Life Memberships that year alone if the contract was only $41 million as quoted in one article.

To cover one of Wayne's private charter flights to the Bahamas which was over $29k. That is 20 Life Membership, wiped out by one flight to the Bahamas.

How about the legal fees , that the NRA would not show receipts to North and other officers including the current NRA President Meadows? Reported over $19 million for 1 year. About 12,667 Fully Paid Life Membership erased right there.

How about the apartment for Infamous Intern, About 8 Life Memberships.

$200k worth of suits for Wayne LaPierre. About 134 Life Memberships.

Wayne Annual Salary is over $1 million not including other benefits, expense accounts, and not accounting for things like his security staff. How many Life Memberships does that take?

We could do the same with annual memberships.

Anyone remember back in the 1990s the number of NRA memberships people signed up at Gun Shows in California, Arizona, and Nevada? I helped out with several. All the hours and time spent recruiting members and now we know the NRA was burning through it faster that we could fill out membership applications.

Hell 4 months ago I was still trying to swallow my rage and recruit NRA members. Not anymore. In the next few weeks I am going to try and hook up with the WVCDL and help them recruit.
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  #219  
Old 07-05-2019, 12:55 PM
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Sorry I will NOT WASTE 1 more second reading your FAKE NEWS via SOROS BLOOMBERG.
BYE ONE TRICK PONY!
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  #220  
Old 07-05-2019, 1:11 PM
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Thmsmgnm-

If all of these things are true, why isn’t the membership more up in arms? Or are they?

I have read about a trip to the Bahamas that was supposedly paid for by the PR firm. The article referenced internal documents. Is there somewhere to see those documents? It would seem that without that proof, it is an unsubstantiated rumor. If said document exists, NRA members have every right to be upset.
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  #221  
Old 07-05-2019, 3:12 PM
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Originally Posted by eta34 View Post
Thmsmgnm-

If all of these things are true, why isn’t the membership more up in arms? Or are they?

I have read about a trip to the Bahamas that was supposedly paid for by the PR firm. The article referenced internal documents. Is there somewhere to see those documents? It would seem that without that proof, it is an unsubstantiated rumor. If said document exists, NRA members have every right to be upset.
Sir I shoot frequently and talk to lots of people and no one except a few forum trolls are even aware of this internal struggle.
I will look for the post by Kestyll who outlined it perfectly and repost it .in the event you missed it!
Then you can decide if this is an issue to concern you.
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  #222  
Old 07-05-2019, 3:21 PM
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From Kestryll
Have you actually read the emails and texts between Cox and Boren discussing and planning Ollie North's attempt to blackmail Wayne?

How about a simple timeline:

Oliver North gets a $1,00,000+ movie deal with Ackerman-McQueen.

Wayne/NRA sues Ackerman-McQueen for overcharging the NRA.

Oliver North attempts to blackmail Wayne in to resigning, which would effectively kill the lawsuit.

Emails and text enter as evidence in lawsuit show Chris Cox and Dan Boren not only knew of North's blackmail attempt but helped coordinate it.

Chris Cox is suspended by the NRA due to his part in the North blackmail attempt.

Several days later Chris Cox resigns.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 153 View Post
Regarding Chris Cox, did he resign or was he fired? Why? I have seen both stories distributed.
Suspended and then resigned, because his part in Oliver North's blackmail attempt on behalf of Ackerman-McQueen.


It’s not even clear to me who is running NRA.
There in lies the crux of the issue.

Three parties want to run the NRA:

Wayne La Pierre and the Board of Directors.

Akerman-McQueen, the media service that was contracted by the NRA.

Jeff Knox, Rob Pincus, Ollie North, etc.

Wayne and the BoD are pretty much the people who should be running the NRA. If the Board decides to remove Wayne or the Board changes then that changes things but unless that happens the ones that run things are the people employed or elected to do so.

Ack-McQ want to continue having access to their cash cow and to stop the lawsuit from the NRA. The easiest way to do that is through proxies attacking the NRA leaders.

Jeff Knox wants to try to 'avenge' and complete his father Neal Knox's failed attempt to take over the NRA back in the late 70's-early 80's.
Pincus is the Exec. Director of another 'Pro-2A' org that wants a cut of those yummy 2A donations.
North, well he's got a million dollar movie deal to protect so his motive is the clearest of all.
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  #223  
Old 07-05-2019, 3:34 PM
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The question was not directed at you, JA308.
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  #224  
Old 07-05-2019, 3:35 PM
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Originally Posted by eta34 View Post
Thanks for the link. Other than this letter, have there been any other retirees who have stated that their pensions have been frozen?
As to the bolded;

WHAT LETTER?.............Mr Landers in his FB post. Said he was an NRA employee. He also said "employees" got this letter in April 2019.

If he got this "letter", why did he not C&P it into his lengthy accusatory FB post?

I have a lot of questions. I don't expect a lot of answers. This latest bunch of Anti NRA media attacks started when NRA demanded accountability from the PR firm. In return the PR firm attacks the NRA in the media.

Through "leaks" from NRA members who owe financial loyalty to the PR firm.
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  #225  
Old 07-05-2019, 3:39 PM
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I stand corrected, Pacrat. I was referring to the Facebook post. I am asking for additional evidence. Obviously, this is concerning to hear, but without additional proof it isn’t sensible to trust a single anecdote.
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  #226  
Old 07-05-2019, 3:40 PM
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Pacrat-

Wouldn’t transparency help alleviate these claims? Or at least, directly refuting these accusations?
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  #227  
Old 07-05-2019, 4:07 PM
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Originally Posted by eta34 View Post
I stand corrected, Pacrat. I was referring to the Facebook post. I am asking for additional evidence. Obviously, this is concerning to hear, but without additional proof it isn’t sensible to trust a single anecdote.
Pardon me. My intent was not to correct. I goofed and didn't multi quote you're post #220. My own observations and concerns regarding this entire "Attacks on NRA" issue. Parallel your own.

If this guy has this letter he claims he got. Why didn't he include it in his post? I also see that as "non evidence".

I've been an NRA member for 46 yrs, and a LIFER for the last 40. I understand what is happening and why. And I concur that since the PR outfit is defensibly "going public" with all these supposed dirty dealings. Why not respond publicly. Multiple law suits means it will all come out as actual evidence anyway.

Does Brad Pitt know how much the studio spends on his wardrobe? Or even where they get his suits?
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Old 07-05-2019, 4:09 PM
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Wouldn’t transparency help alleviate these claims? Or at least, directly refuting these accusations?
I honestly believe so. Not directly refuting an accusation. Indirectly causes doubts as to motive.
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Old 07-05-2019, 4:45 PM
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The question was not directed at you, JA308.
Yeah I get it you are not here for valid information if you were you would have commented on what Kestryll had posted.

So carry on and enjoy chasing your tail !
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Old 07-05-2019, 4:48 PM
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I honestly believe so. Not directly refuting an accusation. Indirectly causes doubts as to motive.
Pac do you think maybe the attorneys have advised him against public comments?
Yeah I know the question was not directed at me, but I thought you might understand the answer.
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Old 07-05-2019, 5:00 PM
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Pac do you think maybe the attorneys have advised him against public comments?
Yeah I know the question was not directed at me, but I thought you might understand the answer.
No doubt the NRA has been so advised. My thoughts are "WHY", since it will all be public record anyway. The dueling suits guarantee disclosure during discovery.

I see the Bias Stream Media [BS-M] attacks fueled by the PR firm as a payback for cutting their purse strings.
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Old 07-05-2019, 5:14 PM
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JA308-

I don’t want the opinion of a sycophant. I’m looking for objective evidence. The Bloomberg types don’t have it. You don’t have it.

Clearly you didn’t read what I wrote. I’m asking for EVIDENCE. Evidence is not what your buddies have told you. Evidence is not a personal anecdote by a former board member. That’s how logical, intelligent people make decisions.
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Old 07-05-2019, 5:16 PM
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PAC-

I hope we get some clear answers soon. It certainly smells bad and is horrible publicity for the NRA. Of course, I hope all of the accusations are nonsense. If true, Wayne needs to go. I’m waiting for some real answers.
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Old 07-05-2019, 5:20 PM
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If all of these things are true, why isn’t the membership more up in arms? Or are they?

I have read about a trip to the Bahamas that was supposedly paid for by the PR firm. The article referenced internal documents. Is there somewhere to see those documents? It would seem that without that proof, it is an unsubstantiated rumor. If said document exists, NRA members have every right to be upset.
A number of the trips, clothes, private charter plane ride were according to news report paid for by AckMac who were later reimbursed for the payments by the NRA. Wayne had several credit cards issued to him by AckMac at his direction according to the same reports. So far the NRA has admitted to some of the bills and admitted that Wayne book charters and paid for his clothes, and his credit card bill. But they insist that Wayne was advised to do that by AckMac staff. Basically AckMac made him do it.

This information is still unknown to the vast majority of the NRA members who only get their information from the NRA Magazines. If it isn't there they do not know about it. Those who have been involved or know people who are current or formerly involved with recruitment, attended NRA Annual Meetings, worked with candidates for the NRA BoD, those who are activists. or similar know or at least have some idea that something has been wrong with the NRA for a while.

Here is a hint, when Tom Gresham a , guy who helped get 17,000 Life Memberships sold (NRA Firesale of 2013 about $5.1 million) through his radio/podcast/website, disables the code that allows for NRA Recruitment on his website, there is something going wrong. Also something to ponder, Gresham donated all recruitment premiums from that Membership drive back to the NRA. Don't believe me, do a google search the NRA did a write up celebrating the accomplishment.

Some years ago Mike Dillion of Dillion Precision ran for the NRA BoD and won. He didn't last his whole term, why? The NRA BoD as a whole has zero authority to make changes to the structure of the NRA and what is more, he found the NRA is resistant to change.

Last edited by thmsmgnm; 07-05-2019 at 5:53 PM..
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Old 07-05-2019, 5:40 PM
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As to the bolded;

WHAT LETTER?.............Mr Landers in his FB post. Said he was an NRA employee. He also said "employees" got this letter in April 2019.

If he got this "letter", why did he not C&P it into his lengthy accusatory FB post?

I have a lot of questions. I don't expect a lot of answers. This latest bunch of Anti NRA media attacks started when NRA demanded accountability from the PR firm. In return the PR firm attacks the NRA in the media.

Through "leaks" from NRA members who owe financial loyalty to the PR firm.
The letter you are talking about was from Andrew Lander He was a 13 year NRA employee whose job was NRA Firearms Training Program Councilor. If you were an NRA Instructor or trained to be one between 2004-2018 you might have talked to him on the phone or met him in person. He is now one of the people who formed www.savethe2a.org

Another former Training Division employee Steven Hobeck wrote an open letter. He have much to say about the "blended learning program" and other things. Here is one part of his letter.


Quote:
I always thought the NRA stood as a barrier fighting the good fight. I remember a long conversation with my late friend Pat Rogers (editor from SWAT magazine) who supported the NRA, but said, "I don't always agree with what the NRA, then again I didn't always agree with what my mother said, but she was right most of the time".

I felt the same way until the motive of the NRA shifted from fighting for freedom, to fighting for money. I personally sat in on meetings in which the discussion was to put USCCA out of business because they were taking what should be ours. I'll be honest I was a little to shocked to hear the NRA was in the business of trying to put pro gun companies out of business?
Anyone who is familiar with the NRA Carry Guard and the banning of the USCCA from the NRA Annual Meeting in 2017 despite the fact they had already reserved and paid for their display space will see the accuracy of his statement. Also it should be noted that the NRA met with USCCA to review their program as a perspective partner in the USCCA program that was already in place.

Last edited by thmsmgnm; 07-05-2019 at 5:45 PM..
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Old 07-05-2019, 5:43 PM
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I agree that it is concerning. When major donors pull out, it should make the membership demand answers. If these donors are delusional or misrepresenting things, the NRA board should clear it up. We need a strong NRA. Letting stuff like this linger doesn’t help.
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Old 07-05-2019, 5:56 PM
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I agree that it is concerning. When major donors pull out, it should make the membership demand answers. If these donors are delusional or misrepresenting things, the NRA board should clear it up. We need a strong NRA. Letting stuff like this linger doesn’t help.
There are people working to contact every member of the NRA BoD, so far the results are, depressing. The Cult of Wayne is strong. The sad part is the NRA BoD members do not understand they can all be held liable for their failure if the NRA crashes, gets their charter revoked, come under Federal scrutiny.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/conte...=.161ed787c94f

The WashPo article has a scanned copy of the Rosy Scenario NRA Financials.

Last edited by thmsmgnm; 07-05-2019 at 5:59 PM..
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Old 07-05-2019, 5:59 PM
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Are there no official minutes of the BOD meetings? And if the pension is frozen, where is the evidence? Seems that there would be multiple “victims” who would have been given official notice.
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  #239  
Old 07-05-2019, 6:14 PM
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Is there a source to the NRA people getting pensions frozen?
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Originally Posted by eta34 View Post
...I’m looking for objective evidence. The Bloomberg types don’t have it. You don’t have it.

Clearly you didn’t read what I wrote. I’m asking for EVIDENCE. Evidence is not what your buddies have told you. Evidence is not a personal anecdote by a former board member. That’s how logical, intelligent people make decisions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eta34
Are there no official minutes of the BOD meetings? And if the pension is frozen, where is the evidence? Seems that there would be multiple “victims” who would have been given official notice.
At the moment, what 'evidence' they claim to have doesn't appear to have been made public. Well, at least I haven't found the documents publicly posted, yet. The 'source' for this information seems to have been based on an NPR piece back in May and is based on an anonymous leak, claiming to have access to document(s), and interpretations of that/those document(s) which don't appear to have been published.

As Leaks Show Lavish NRA Spending, Former Staff Detail Poor Conditions At Nonprofit

Quote:
Documents raise questions about NRA pension plan

Even as the organization pays its top executives high wages, the future prospects for those NRA employees who qualify for a pension are worsening.

NPR obtained a copy of 2019 National Rifle Association pension documents from a source with direct access to them. Brian Mittendorf, who chairs the Department of Accounting at Ohio State University, helped NPR review these documents.

They show that the NRA's pension obligations were approximately $134 million at the beginning of this year, but they had only set aside $93 million to meet those obligations.

They also show that the NRA's pension situation has become more troubling in the past few years. There are 786 people in the NRA's pension plan, of which 223 are currently employed by the organization.

Buried at the bottom of one page of the pension report, in a bullet point, the NRA said it had implemented a freeze to their pension plan in 2018. This means that even current employees who are in the plan can no longer accrue new benefits despite continuing to work for the organization.

"In effect, it is the most an organization can do to cut pension benefits without completely terminating its plan," Mittendorf said.

The freeze in benefits for employees who participate in the pension plan is in contrast to a one-time $3,767,345 supplemental retirement payment LaPierre received in 2015, according to the NRA's public disclosures.

"It's indicative that the organization has not set aside sufficient funds to cover its rank-and-file employees' retirements," Mittendorf said. "That means that the organization's financial trouble puts these rank-and-file employees' future at risk. Something would need to change at the organization to cover them. ... The people at the top are going to be financially secure. It's the rank-and-file employees that are at risk."
That doesn't make any of this true or false. It simply means I haven't found, thus far, any 'pension documents' posted. The closest I've come is an NRA Audit for 2017 which you can set against the 2018 report in the The Washington Post piece linked to by thmsmgnm above. It does provide information on several things, including "Retirement Plans" on page 21 of 26 (pages 19 - 22 of the actual report).

There is also THIS PAGE with downloadable "leaked documents;" including Andy Lander's letter. There is also an "Image" document (2 pages) containing an NRA Funding Notice for 2018 NRA Retirement Plan.

Last edited by TrappedinCalifornia; 07-05-2019 at 6:52 PM..
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  #240  
Old 07-05-2019, 10:58 PM
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The letter you are talking about was from Andrew Lander He was a 13 year NRA employee whose job was NRA Firearms Training Program Councilor.
Since you obviously don't know what letter, and who wrote it, that eta34 and myself were discussing.

Please refrain from telling us which letter we were discussing.
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