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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #1  
Old 07-09-2019, 8:29 PM
ohsmily ohsmily is offline
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Default Generator selection - dual fuel - SEE CHART

I would like a backup generator for my 4300 sq. ft. home. The capacity of the generators below will allow me to run most of my home during an outage (I will shut down pool and spa pumps and only run one of my two central AC units). It will run with an interlock switch; not a standby backup.

I would like dual fuel for flexibility. It is attractive for me to be able to store several full propane tanks in lieu of managing and rotating stored gasoline. That and gasoline may not be available from the local stations in a large blackout. However, the flexibility of using gasoline is still attractive for various reasons.

I anticipate that this generator will be used fewer than 10x per year and hopefully never for more than a day or so.

Any thoughts, feedback, suggestions regarding the four compared below? Any alternates in a similar price range that are preferable?

Thank you in advance.

SEE POST 23 FOR UPDATE



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Last edited by ohsmily; 09-19-2019 at 8:38 PM..
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  #2  
Old 07-09-2019, 9:34 PM
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While attractive, how much propane and how many tanks are you willing to buy and store? Your typical 20# BBQ size tank will run these gennys for only about 3 hours with your AC on.
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Old 07-09-2019, 9:37 PM
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Originally Posted by G-forceJunkie View Post
While attractive, how much propane and how many tanks are you willing to buy and store? Your typical 20# BBQ size tank will run these gennys for only about 3 hours with your AC on.
I figure 3-5 tanks or perhaps a couple of 30 gallon ones. I haven't looked into the logistics but i would consider buying and storing a 100 gallon tank or two and moving them on a dolly if that works with the generator and is safe/lawful. But you're right, either way that is rather fast consumption of fuel.

Running the AC would be a luxury and would be used to keep the house at a habitable temperature (below 80 or 82 degrees) in the event of a summer outage. I live outside of Sacramento in the foothills and it can get rather hot.

Thank you for the feedback.
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Last edited by ohsmily; 07-09-2019 at 9:42 PM..
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  #4  
Old 07-10-2019, 7:49 AM
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There are really good reasons why Honda generators of comparable wattage cost twice as much. Something you might want to research and consider.
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Old 07-10-2019, 8:06 AM
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you need to check and see if your A/C units are three phase or single phase 220/240. first.

then look at the generator output. that Firman lists 6 gallons per hour. check the MFG website.
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Old 07-10-2019, 8:10 AM
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Wait for homedepot sales, they have a lot better price generator’s
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Old 07-10-2019, 8:18 AM
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Keep in mind that the wattage listed on those will be max when using gasoline. The output will be less when running propane. Running watt's on my dual fuel is 7500 gasoline, and 6750 LPG. Not a huge difference but enough to matter depending on what you're trying to run. My generator's will go to necessity item's, frige, freezer and well.
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Old 07-10-2019, 8:53 AM
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Reefer, fans, water and comms are my priority items to keep going during an outage. Running AC and my pool pump will never make it to that short list. The more you load your genny the more fuel you use up.

My power goes out in the winter time on a regular basis. I use a Yamaha with an easy button starter. I keep a 12V deep cycle battery trickle charging as a backup in case genny's batt gags.
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Old 07-10-2019, 9:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohsmily View Post
I figure 3-5 tanks or perhaps a couple of 30 gallon ones. I haven't looked into the logistics but i would consider buying and storing a 100 gallon tank or two and moving them on a dolly if that works with the generator and is safe/lawful. But you're right, either way that is rather fast consumption of fuel.

Thank you for the feedback.
Watch out that you don't confuse a 100 pound propane tank with a 100 gallon propane tank. A 100 pound tank holds about 24 gallons of propane and is transportable with a dolly or can be rolled around by hand. You can transport them to town to be filled by yourself.

A 100 gallon tank comes in around 420 pounds and is hardly transportable once filled on site by a propane truck. You might be able to transport one to town for filling but the propane seller will demand the tank be set on the ground before they will fill it. Good luck with that.

I mention this so you don't think in your calculation that you are going to buy from Home Depot what you may mistakenly be calling a 100 gallon tank which is actually a 100 pound tank that holds 24 gallons.
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Old 07-10-2019, 9:14 AM
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I'm on my phone, so maybe I missed it. ALL of those are gonna be loud. I dont see any db ratings. Suggest an enclosed?
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Old 07-10-2019, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freonr22 View Post
I'm on my phone, so maybe I missed it. ALL of those are gonna be loud. I dont see any db ratings. Suggest an enclosed?
You did miss it. They are listed at between 72-74dB. Noise is not a big concern, anyway, where I am located.
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Last edited by ohsmily; 07-10-2019 at 12:58 PM..
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  #12  
Old 07-10-2019, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baih777 View Post
you need to check and see if your A/C units are three phase or single phase 220/240. first.

then look at the generator output. that Firman lists 6 gallons per hour. check the MFG website.
What difference does it make with respect to generator choice?

Is there an easy way to tell visibly on the AC equipment without using a voltmeter?
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  #13  
Old 07-10-2019, 1:18 PM
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Are you in town or on property?
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Old 07-10-2019, 2:24 PM
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Are you in town or on property?
1 acre. Some larger properties in the area.
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Old 07-10-2019, 2:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohsmily View Post
What difference does it make with respect to generator choice?

Is there an easy way to tell visibly on the AC equipment without using a voltmeter?
Take a look at the a/c unit. There should be a specification plate on the unit.
It should say single phase or three phase.
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Old 07-10-2019, 3:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeepergeo View Post
There are really good reasons why Honda generators of comparable wattage cost twice as much. Something you might want to research and consider.
There are and those reasons are sound level and most important. Durability and reliability. Also cleaner elec.

Since you are buying for an emergency. Buy once. Cry once.
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Old 07-10-2019, 3:47 PM
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Originally Posted by baih777 View Post
Take a look at the a/c unit. There should be a specification plate on the unit.
It should say single phase or three phase.
I looked at the motors that drive the fans on the outside units. They are both single phase. Is there something else to look at or is that the answer?
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Old 07-10-2019, 3:55 PM
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Quote:
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I looked at the motors that drive the fans on the outside units. They are both single phase. Is there something else to look at or is that the answer?
That's it. Now look at the specs of the 220v outlets on the generators.
I tried looking up a couple of those and did not see the specs.
Maybe the mfg websites might have more info.

Also check your pool pump. Should be 220v also. I know you said you would just turn them off. But I have seen people use the pool pump to run a fire hose. That's another story.
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Old 07-10-2019, 4:43 PM
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I purchased the Champion 7500 watt duel fuel from tractor supply. I like being able to test run it on propane and store and not worry about the carburetor varnishing up. If the SHTF, I have plenty of gasoline in my four vehicles and fuel cans, plus 5 20# propane tanks to keep the fridge and freezer going for awhile.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...electric-start
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Old 07-10-2019, 8:45 PM
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I have a champion propane generator I got on sale at HD. It does well - I charge the battery (also has a pull start) and fire it up once or twice a year. I have it primarily for my well pump.

I have a propane oven and hot water heater. The generator can run a freezer and a small a/c when have in a casita. In addition to that, I have a battery pack charged up that will open my garage, run a light and charge my cell phones.

I like these tanks. Propane guy will fill up when they get low. Store outside in the shade. They are at the height of the generator and are easy to move around. Friend has the 100 lb tank and it’s inconvenient to get filled up and move around.
FlameKing YSN-301 Propane Tank-30 Pound Refillable Steel Cylinder with Type 1 Overflow Protection Device Valve-DOT and TC Compliant, 30 lb, White https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003UHVVV2..._WORjDb5HR15T7

https://www.foodsafety.gov/blog/poweroutage2013.html
You can get gallon size jugs, fill with water and leave in the freezer.
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Old 09-19-2019, 6:46 PM
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Intresting I was just looking at trifuel conversions LP NG and gas.. Conversion kits are not that bad in price
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Old 09-19-2019, 8:37 PM
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Intresting I was just looking at trifuel conversions LP NG and gas.. Conversion kits are not that bad in price
I ended up buying a Firman dual fuel generator from Costco.

https://www.costco.com/Firman-7500W-...100417697.html

I bought the following propane tanks: 1 30lb tank, 2 40lb tanks, and 1 100lb tank.

My plan is to never use gasoline unless a true emergency or very extended power outage crops up and i have no other options. The propane burns cleanly in the motor and I won't have to worry about gumming things up with old gasoline and infrequent use. The propane i now have on hand will last through any power outage I have experienced thus far (probably last me more than a week with sparing use to run the central AC periodically if summer time and the heater (NG powered) during the winter, plus fridges, freezers periodically to keep them cold. Obviously, it won't be sufficient for a true SHTF long term scenario...but that isn't the purpose of this backup generator.
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Old 09-20-2019, 7:51 AM
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If you really want to run your AC be sure to put a meter on your AC power legs to determine how many amps you are pulling on start up. If you don't have a clamp meter you can get one at Harbor Freight for $15.

Also Skip the small LP tanks and buy a big tank (100-500 Gal) and have gas delivered. I payed 1.69/gal to fill my tanks and there is no sales tax.
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Old 09-20-2019, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by luckylogger6 View Post
Also Skip the small LP tanks and buy a big tank (100-500 Gal) and have gas delivered. I payed 1.69/gal to fill my tanks and there is no sales tax.
Requires an adapter and probably a longer hose. Mine is only long enough for the 20# tanks, or I need to dig a hole to set the taller tanks in.
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Old 09-20-2019, 11:00 AM
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I hope you have a smaller gen too. Sometimes you only need 1-2kW for a couple hours or for portable operations.
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Old 09-20-2019, 2:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baih777 View Post
you need to check and see if your A/C units are three phase or single phase 220/240. first.

then look at the generator output. that Firman lists 6 gallons per hour. check the MFG website.
3 Phase in a house. Common man that is stupid.
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Old 09-20-2019, 2:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ohsmily View Post
I looked at the motors that drive the fans on the outside units. They are both single phase. Is there something else to look at or is that the answer?
Of course they are. No one has 3 phase in their house unless you have some crazy stuff going on.
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Old 09-20-2019, 3:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohsmily View Post
You did miss it. They are listed at between 72-74dB. Noise is not a big concern, anyway, where I am located.
If noise is a concern, look elsewhere. I was looking for a generator for our 30' trailer and picked up one similar to the ones you listed. I believe it was listed around 69db. It was incredibly loud. I took it back and ponied up for a Honda inverter generator. They are expensive, but buy once, cry once.
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Old 09-20-2019, 5:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck Killer View Post
3 Phase in a house. Common man that is stupid.
Need it to run a lathe and mill and welder.
It's not stupid.
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Old 09-20-2019, 7:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck Killer View Post
3 Phase in a house. Common man that is stupid.
My friend, had 400 Amps 3ph at their home...
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They don't believe it's possible, but then Alison didn't believe there'd be 350K - 400K OLLs in CA either.
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Old 09-20-2019, 8:03 PM
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Do you have a truck?
Consider a saddle tank- 20 gallon factory tank and 30 gallons or so extra in a truck

The truck rotates the fuel

You have fuel for the generator
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Old 09-21-2019, 3:26 PM
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My friend, had 400 Amps 3ph at their home...
Pge will not hook up 3 phase to a house. Maybe a barn or a shop. I just went through this with PGE. Had to have a separate service put it. Additionally no one would install a 3 phase ac system in a house unless it is a huge house. Like crazy huge. 3 phase is not even available to most homes.
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Old 09-21-2019, 9:28 PM
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Check Groupon
4000 Watt dual fuel was $330 IIRC

Fun thing about generators. I bought a Generac back in the 90's to keep my reef tank alive during a blackout.
Over the course of 22 years I used it exactly twice. It was a gas generator and with the time it took to get it out of the shed, started and hooked up to the cords, I ran it for about 10 minutes before the power came back., So I am not sure about such an investment if you are on a reasonably reliable grid.
Remember, once the grid goes down, you'll have a hard time replacing your generator fuel once you've used your stash.
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Old 09-28-2019, 2:23 PM
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I bought a Yamaha knock off for $399 from authorized equipment sale just North of the 10 freeway in Ontario had it about a year and a half drink it once a month let it run for an hour it gets it done
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Old 09-28-2019, 4:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck Killer View Post
Pge will not hook up 3 phase to a house. Maybe a barn or a shop. I just went through this with PGE. Had to have a separate service put it. Additionally no one would install a 3 phase ac system in a house unless it is a huge house. Like crazy huge. 3 phase is not even available to most homes.
5000 sq ft house, 3000 sq ft game rm 6000 sq ft shop 5 acres Gilroy
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We will win. We are right. We will never stop fighting.
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Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
They don't believe it's possible, but then Alison didn't believe there'd be 350K - 400K OLLs in CA either.
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Our fate is ours alone to decide as long as we remain armed heavily enough to dictate it.
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Old 09-28-2019, 5:00 PM
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Check Groupon
4000 Watt dual fuel was $330 IIRC

Fun thing about generators. I bought a Generac back in the 90's to keep my reef tank alive during a blackout.
Over the course of 22 years I used it exactly twice. It was a gas generator and with the time it took to get it out of the shed, started and hooked up to the cords, I ran it for about 10 minutes before the power came back., So I am not sure about such an investment if you are on a reasonably reliable grid.
Remember, once the grid goes down, you'll have a hard time replacing your generator fuel once you've used your stash.

Lol - that’s been my experience over the last 10 years.

I’ve used my battery bank for power outages that last more than 60 mins to open my garage door opener and gate. Also good for charging cell phones or running a light.
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Old 09-28-2019, 5:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ohsmily View Post
1 acre. Some larger properties in the area.
Have you considered a 500 gallon propane tank, the kind people use when they don't have NG service?
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Old 09-28-2019, 9:46 PM
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5000 sq ft house, 3000 sq ft game rm 6000 sq ft shop 5 acres Gilroy
6000 sq foot shop. 3 phase to shop. They will not run it to a house alone
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Old 09-30-2019, 11:04 AM
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I pay suburban propane $25/year to rent a gallon tank
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Old 09-30-2019, 11:37 AM
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I pay suburban propane $25/year to rent a gallon tank
And then they stiff you on the cost of propane since you can't shop around with other suppliers.
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