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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 01-16-2019, 8:45 PM
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Thumbs up Petition for Writ of Cert. filed with SCOTUS in Knife Rights’ NYC Gravity Knife Case

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Plaintiffs’ petition for Writ of Certiorari to the Supreme Court of the United States in Knife Rights’ nearly eight-year-old civil rights lawsuit over New York City’s persecution of pocket knife owners was filed today. The petition requests that the Supreme Court review the Second Circuit’s decision against our plaintiffs in this case.

Knife Rights Chairman Doug Ritter said, “It is unfortunate that we are forced to appeal to the Supreme Court in order to gain justice for knife owners in, and travelers to, New York City. These tens of thousands of unconstitutional arrests and prosecutions are an affront to the most basic concept of justice and simple common sense. Even the New York legislature recognized this by twice overwhelmingly passing bills that would address the issue in New York City, only to be vetoed by Governor Cuomo supporting his cronies in the City. This ongoing persecution cannot stand.”

While our lawsuit against New York City and District Attorney Cyrus Vance, Jr. centers on their abusive enforcement of New York State’s gravity knife ban against owners of common pocket knives as being constitutionally void for vagueness, the focus of the petition is on the larger constitutional issues surrounding vagueness and how it is applied in the different circuits....
More at: https://kniferights.org/legislative-...ty-knife-case/

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  #2  
Old 01-22-2019, 9:19 PM
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Here's a link to SCOTUS' docket page for this case, Copeland:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/search....ic/18-918.html
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  #3  
Old 03-05-2019, 1:48 PM
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On February 27, the Court called for a response from New York City to be filed by March 29, 2019.

Can we move this thread to the Second Amendment litigation forum? The petition doesn't actually cite the Second Amendment, but I'd prefer to have all the Second Amendment litigation cases in one location.
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Old 05-16-2019, 8:08 AM
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In conformity with the U.S. Supreme Court’s direction that they respond to Plaintiff’s Petition for Writ of Certiorari in our long-running Gravity Knife case, New York City and DA Cyrus Vance, Jr. filed opposition briefs Monday, May 13.

<snip>

Petitioner’s response to the NYC and DA briefs is due May 28. That would be expected to put us on schedule for a June conference where the Justices will decide whether or not to grant the petition and hear the case.
More at:
https://kniferights.org/legislative-...da-to-respond/
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:28 AM
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It looks like that case is turning on vagueness, not on 2A issues.

The law is crazy vague, with different results depending on the wrist flipping technique used, different opinions on whether a certain style of wrist flick is normal or "exaggerate" (yes, that's the word NY used in its brief). Different results depending on if the knife has come lose / smooth with time or not. Is my knife a "gravity knife" depends on the wrist technique and strength of someone testing it. Pretty sure that nearly any knife in existence could be flicked open somehow by someone.

It would be cool though to see SCOTUS rule that knives are, indeed, protected arms. They already said that stun guns are, so surely knives must be.
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by CCWFacts View Post
It looks like that case is turning on vagueness, not on 2A issues.
Yes, I had posted this thread in the Blades forum, but since Kuku asked for it to be moved to the 2nd A forum (since it's dealing with weapons), I agreed.
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Yes, I had posted this thread in the Blades forum, but since Kuku asked for it to be moved to the 2nd A forum (since it's dealing with weapons), I agreed.
Thank you.
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:34 AM
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But it's not a CA case, or originally filed in CA courts, so moved to National.
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
But it's not a CA case, or originally filed in CA courts, so moved to National.
Still thank you.
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  #10  
Old 05-16-2019, 12:07 PM
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Still thank you.
Don't feel bad: we'll make Librarian move it back to Litigation once it's been granted cert.
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  #11  
Old 05-23-2019, 11:59 AM
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Plaintiff’s Reply Brief Filed with SCOTUS in NYC Gravity Knife Case
May 22, 2019

In response to New York City’s and District Attorney Cyrus Vance’s opposition briefs filed last week, Plaintiffs submitted their Reply Brief today. CLICK HERE to read the Reply Brief.

The Reply Brief points out to the Court that the City and DA take the same approach in their opposition briefs that they have taken through this lawsuit. They ignore the substance of the case and instead employ misdirection to distract from review of the actual issues. None of it contradicts the clear fact that the court of appeals misapplied the Supreme Court’s controlling precedent in order to prevent review of a law that puts millions of New Yorkers at risk of arrest and prosecution merely for carrying an ordinary pocket knife.

They argue that the circuit split is not real when it plainly is. Moreover, two more circuits have recently decided cases that increases the split; it is now four circuits to one with the Second Circuit’s flawed interpretation now an even more obvious outlier. They argue that the issue presented in the Petition was not preserved when it was plainly passed on by the court of appeals. And, they disregard the actual record — all of this in an effort to get this Court to “pay no attention to that man behind the curtain,” the very real issue of vagueness at the heart of this case.

This reply brief is the last filing normally provided prior to the Court’s conference, which is expected to be held either June 13 or 20. At that time the Justices would be expected to decide whether or not to grant the petition and hear the case.
from: https://kniferights.org/legislative-...da-to-respond/
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Last edited by Paladin; 05-23-2019 at 12:36 PM..
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  #12  
Old 06-15-2019, 5:16 PM
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The Supreme Court is scheduled to take up the petition in conference tomorrow, the 13th. At that time they will decide to take the case, decline the case, or put off a decision. It will be Monday, June 17, before they post the results of the conference.
More at: https://kniferights.org/legislative-...s-scotus-case/

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Old 06-15-2019, 7:47 PM
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Be cool if this were held pending NYSRPA vs CNY, huh?
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Old 06-17-2019, 5:02 AM
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As of right now no movement on the docket page, showing signs of having been held like the other cases. It's still somewhat early tho, only 9am in D.C. so they may update it later today.
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Old 06-17-2019, 6:01 AM
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So the knife case is denied, but they are approving amicus briefs???

What does that mean?

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18-918 COPELAND, JOHN, ET AL. V. VANCE, CYRUS R., ET AL.
The motion of The Legal Aid Society for leave to file a brief as amicus curiae is granted. The motion of Criminal Law Professors, et al. for leave to file a brief as amici curiae is granted. The motion of Constitutional Law Scholars for leave to file a brief as amici curiae is granted. The petition for a writ of certiorari is denied.
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Old 06-17-2019, 6:57 AM
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Cert denied. See pg7 of the order list: https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/...19zor_4g15.pdf
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Old 06-17-2019, 7:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Here's a link to SCOTUS' docket page for this case, Copeland:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/search....ic/18-918.html
From the docket:

Quote:
Jun 17 2019 Motion for leave to file amicus brief filed by The Legal Aid Society GRANTED.

Jun 17 2019 Motion for leave to file amici brief filed by Criminal Law Professors, et al. GRANTED.

Jun 17 2019 Motion for leave to file amici brief filed by Constitutional Law Scholars GRANTED.

Jun 17 2019 Petition DENIED.
Oh well.

Maybe SCOTUS figures if they grant us in NYSRPA a 2nd A RKBA protected by strict scrutiny next session, rather than them messing with "What is a gravity knife?" next session too (i.e., NYC's ordinance challenged under vagueness, not a federal 2nd A challenge), they'll just let the NY state courts figure out later if restrictions against gravity knives survive strict scrutiny under the 2nd A. IOW, one less case for SCOTUS to deal with now.
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Last edited by Paladin; 06-17-2019 at 7:35 AM..
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  #18  
Old 06-17-2019, 8:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ShadowGuy View Post
So the knife case is denied, but they are approving amicus briefs???

What does that mean?
Approvals are just procedural, but the case is not accepted?
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Old 06-17-2019, 9:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Chatterbox View Post
Approvals are just procedural, but the case is not accepted?
Yep. The case was denied cert.

I think this might help to define the scope of the NYSPRA verdict.

It could have been held, which would mean it is likely that it would have been covered by the eventual NYSPRA ruling. The fact that it was denied, makes me think that it’s question will fall outside the scope of NYSPRA.

I am not sure what to make of it.

In this case they are allowing a weapons ban on certain folding knives with a vagueness in defining the features that make it illegal.

Last edited by ShadowGuy; 06-17-2019 at 9:22 AM..
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abinsinia View Post
As of right now no movement on the docket page, showing signs of having been held like the other cases. It's still somewhat early tho, only 9am in D.C. so they may update it later today.
IIRC, the orders are usually issued 9:30 am or a few minutes later, D.C. time
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