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  #1  
Old 05-03-2021, 5:31 PM
wyrmrydr wyrmrydr is offline
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Default FFL 03 in Rented Apartment

I'm considering applying for an FLL 03 + COE. I'm currently renting an apartment. After reviewing the relevant ATF forms, it seems that if applying for an 03, it's not necessary to inform the ATF regarding the lease or landlord. Although firearms and ammunition are not prohibited by my lease or any local ordnance I'm aware of, I would prefer not to alert the landlord or any neighbors that I have an 03 or have any guns and ammo.

Has anyone in a similar position applied for an FFL 03? Does anyone know of any cases where ATF or local law enforcement contacted landlords or anyone else regarding an FFL 03 application?

Thank you!
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  #2  
Old 05-03-2021, 5:41 PM
sfe187 sfe187 is offline
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I think its three separate issue and you should be ok.

1. Landlord - does your landlord have firearm clause in lease which you say you don't so good there.
2. 03 - I don't believe federal cares about status of either rent or own.
3. COE - I don't think it matters rent or own.

You are not obligate by law to alert your landlord or neighbors, in fact be discreet about it if you live in a left neighbothood. The only person you need to inform is CLEO for 03.
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  #3  
Old 05-03-2021, 8:04 PM
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When I got my first C&R 20 something years ago I was renting. I didn't tell anyone who didn't need to know. That included the owner of the property.

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Yes you can have 2 C&R 03 FFL's; 1 in California and 1 in a different state.

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  #4  
Old 05-03-2021, 10:21 PM
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Isn't there an intentional gray area the state make it hard to do business as FFL: cities requires FFL approval to get a business license, but state needs to see your license before approving your FFL. I doubt your city/town will approve you do business as FFL in a rented apartment.
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  #5  
Old 05-03-2021, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by cz74 View Post
Isn't there an intentional gray area the state make it hard to do business as FFL: cities requires FFL approval to get a business license, but state needs to see your license before approving your FFL. I doubt your city/town will approve you do business as FFL in a rented apartment.
There is more then one kind of Federal Firearms License. The number is important.

A FFL01 is for gun shops. It allows retail sales, but not manufacturing. It can also allow gunsmithing.
A FFL07 is for manufacturers making new guns for sale.

A FFL03 is a “collector of curios and relics”. It isn’t for a business. You can’t use it to get a business license nor can you use it for retail sales. It makes transfers of C&R long guns across state lines easier and in conjunction with a California Certificate of Eligibility (COE) allows one to bypass the ammo background check on mail order ammunition.

There are other types of FFLs as well: https://www.ffl123.com/types-of-ffl-licenses/

Last edited by unusedusername; 05-03-2021 at 11:19 PM..
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  #6  
Old 05-04-2021, 3:58 AM
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Relax. It's not an issue.
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  #7  
Old 05-04-2021, 5:29 AM
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Originally Posted by unusedusername View Post
There is more then one kind of Federal Firearms License. The number is important.

A FFL01 is for gun shops. It allows retail sales, but not manufacturing. It can also allow gunsmithing.
A FFL07 is for manufacturers making new guns for sale.

A FFL03 is a “collector of curios and relics”. It isn’t for a business. You can’t use it to get a business license nor can you use it for retail sales. It makes transfers of C&R long guns firearms across state lines easier and in conjunction with a California Certificate of Eligibility (COE) allows one to bypass the ammo background check on mail order ammunition.

There are other types of FFLs as well: https://www.ffl123.com/types-of-ffl-licenses/
FIFY

You can also bring in C&R handguns from out of state.
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Yes you can have 2 C&R 03 FFL's; 1 in California and 1 in a different state.

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  #8  
Old 05-04-2021, 5:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyrmrydr View Post
I'm considering applying for an FLL 03 + COE. I'm currently renting an apartment. After reviewing the relevant ATF forms, it seems that if applying for an 03, it's not necessary to inform the ATF regarding the lease or landlord. Although firearms and ammunition are not prohibited by my lease or any local ordnance I'm aware of, I would prefer not to alert the landlord or any neighbors that I have an 03 or have any guns and ammo.

Has anyone in a similar position applied for an FFL 03? Does anyone know of any cases where ATF or local law enforcement contacted landlords or anyone else regarding an FFL 03 application?

Thank you!
BATFE does not care if you are renting or own the property your FFL will be based out of.

Local LE, generally, does not care about C&R 03-FFL applications.


However, check/recheck your rental agreement.

If your rental agreement prohibits firearms/ammo as part of the contract for renting the property, then violating it will not incur any legal penalties but can incur a civil suit and/or your eviction from the property for violating the rental agreement.
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  #9  
Old 05-04-2021, 6:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyrmrydr View Post
I'm considering applying for an FLL 03 + COE. I'm currently renting an apartment. After reviewing the relevant ATF forms, it seems that if applying for an 03, it's not necessary to inform the ATF regarding the lease or landlord. Although firearms and ammunition are not prohibited by my lease or any local ordnance I'm aware of, I would prefer not to alert the landlord or any neighbors that I have an 03 or have any guns and ammo.

Has anyone in a similar position applied for an FFL 03? Does anyone know of any cases where ATF or local law enforcement contacted landlords or anyone else regarding an FFL 03 application?

Thank you!
I don’t see how you are gonna alert them....unless you’re gonna start walking around guns in hand.

Where you may run into issues is when a LL or a worker comes in to do some repairs and sees all the guns. They may report to the LL you got guns or the LL may see the guns and freak out. Obv this depends on how many guns you have.
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  #10  
Old 05-04-2021, 7:33 PM
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Only three entities will know:
1. You
2. ATF
3. CHIEF LE Agency for your county.

Landlords get no info and have no clue.
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  #11  
Old 05-05-2021, 2:54 PM
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I've been in an apartment for as long as I have had my 03 and COE. What everyone else already said is accurate. There is no issue that the ATF or state will have with you being in an apartment. Just make sure you check your lease/rental agreement to see if there is any clause about having firearms on the premises (i.e. my lease states that any resident may have firearms on the premises as long as they are legally owned in the state of CA).

Haven't ever had an issue with neighbors being concerned when I head to the range and have a few range bags/hard cases with me.
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Old 05-05-2021, 4:52 PM
wyrmrydr wyrmrydr is offline
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Thank you all for the advice and suggestions. Much appreciated.
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  #13  
Old 05-05-2021, 5:09 PM
Jess B. Guy Jess B. Guy is offline
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Let me offer a suggestion. I am a landlord and would appreciate any tenant who has an 03 to advise me of such. Because I like guns and have my own 03 on the property. That way we could share stories and lust over the other guy's collection!

More seriously it would also allow me to strongly (very strongly) suggest the tenant obtain renter's insurance.

Plus the required notice to local LE would help in their patrol/response routines.
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  #14  
Old 05-05-2021, 6:08 PM
wyrmrydr wyrmrydr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess B. Guy View Post
Let me offer a suggestion. I am a landlord and would appreciate any tenant who has an 03 to advise me of such. Because I like guns and have my own 03 on the property. That way we could share stories and lust over the other guy's collection!

More seriously it would also allow me to strongly (very strongly) suggest the tenant obtain renter's insurance.

Plus the required notice to local LE would help in their patrol/response routines.
Thanks for this perspective. I don't know the landlord's disposition on guns. I do know he is retired LEO. I know they aren't prohibited in the lease. I also have a very large renter's insurance policy (required) and the highest security storage I could safely put on the floor.
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  #15  
Old 05-05-2021, 7:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyrmrydr View Post
Thanks for this perspective. I don't know the landlord's disposition on guns. I do know he is retired LEO. I know they aren't prohibited in the lease. I also have a very large renter's insurance policy (required) and the highest security storage I could safely put on the floor.
Personally, the only reason I would consider notifying the landlord would be if I was going to be using my ffl license a lot. It would help add perspective in the event the landlord or other tenants saw me constantly toting gun cases to and from my apartment. And as you may be receiving gun related shipments, it might be possible to work with the landlord to ensure packages are delivered somewhere safe vs just being dropped off at your doorstep when you’re not home.
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  #16  
Old 05-06-2021, 5:27 PM
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yes 03 is not a problem in an appt

Last edited by SERIAL SNIPER; 05-06-2021 at 5:31 PM..
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  #17  
Old 05-08-2021, 7:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boopiejones View Post
Personally, the only reason I would consider notifying the landlord would be if I was going to be using my ffl license a lot. It would help add perspective in the event the landlord or other tenants saw me constantly toting gun cases to and from my apartment. And as you may be receiving gun related shipments, it might be possible to work with the landlord to ensure packages are delivered somewhere safe vs just being dropped off at your doorstep when you’re not home.
You know that the 03 is not a business license, right?
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