Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-15-2019, 6:08 AM
M4John's Avatar
M4John M4John is offline
The More the Merrier
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 107
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default High Capacity VS Higher Capacity - Is there a difference?

Im not looking to start an argument (its an internet forum, its inevitable), or a debate on facts or specifications, but rather get opinions as to what we may or may not do with high cap magazines. with that said, consider the following:

In the light of the latest "opportunity" from Judge Bennitez, acquiring (large or high) capacity magazines was a legal reality for all of us for about a week. Since then, the Judge was asked to re-think his decision, and has basically ruled if you didn't acquire/manufacture these magazines that are over 10 rounds during that week, you may no longer.
So what I want to know is, can we legally take a (high) capacity magazine which was acquired lawfully, and add a base pad to it, to further increase its capacity? Lets say you had a Glock 17 with a standard magazine for it, holding 17 ( or what ever they hold ) and add a plus 2 base pad to it. Can that be done with out breaking the law as its written?
This would be outside the scope of the law if done with a 10 round magazine... But what about an already "high cap" magazine?
My thought process is, there are definitions for High Capacity magazines... In short, a Magazine that can hold more than 10 rounds... but no where in the definition does it have a limit on how many more than 10 it can contain...
So, I guess I'm asking, can you make a high capacity magazine, a higher capacity magazine.?
Just wondering your thoughts...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-15-2019, 6:14 AM
Citadelgrad87's Avatar
Citadelgrad87 Citadelgrad87 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 15,013
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by California_Deplorable View Post
Whats a "high capacity" magazine?
Clearly defined in California statutes. I get the desire to resist loaded nomenclature, but, here, we are speaking specifically of California law, and california law uses that term.

Clarity is needed.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by repubconserv View Post
Print it out and frame it for all I care
Quote:
Originally Posted by el chivo View Post
I don't need to think at all..
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjsig View Post
You are talking to someone who already won this lame conversation, not a brick a wall. Too bad you don't realize it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterfern View Post
Didn't realize. I try not to be political.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-15-2019, 6:48 AM
champu's Avatar
champu champu is online now
NRA Member, CRPA Member,
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Redondo Beach
Posts: 921
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M4John View Post
So what I want to know is, can we legally take a (high) capacity magazine which was acquired lawfully, and add a base pad to it, to further increase its capacity? Lets say you had a Glock 17 with a standard magazine for it, holding 17 ( or what ever they hold ) and add a plus 2 base pad to it. Can that be done with out breaking the law as its written?
Your problem is this...

Quote:
32311 (a) Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, commencing January 1, 2014, any person in this state who knowingly manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, buys, or receives any large capacity magazine conversion kit is punishable by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000) or imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed six months, or by both that fine and imprisonment. This section does not apply to a fully assembled large-capacity magazine, which is governed by Section 32310.

(b) For purposes of this section, a “large capacity magazine conversion kit” is a device or combination of parts of a fully functioning large-capacity magazine, including, but not limited to, the body, spring, follower, and floor plate or end plate, capable of converting an ammunition feeding device into a large-capacity magazine.
There's no exception in 32311 for the acquisition of base pads "so long as they are only intended for use with a magazine that is already large-capacity." All that matters is whether it is capable of turning a 10 rounder into an 11+ rounder.

One could argue (whether successfully or not is a different question) that given the design of, say, S&W M&P 10 round magazines (see below), a base pad extension to make a 17 rounder into a 21 or 23 rounder was not capable of turning a magazine into a large capacity magazine because if you tried to use it on the 10 rounder a) the spring would probably not be long enough to function correctly and b) it wouldn't fit in any guns that I'm aware of.

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-15-2019, 7:19 AM
M4John's Avatar
M4John M4John is offline
The More the Merrier
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 107
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by champu View Post
Your problem is this...



There's no exception in 32311 for the acquisition of base pads "so long as they are only intended for use with a magazine that is already large-capacity." All that matters is whether it is capable of turning a 10 rounder into an 11+ rounder.

One could argue (whether successfully or not is a different question) that given the design of, say, S&W M&P 10 round magazines (see below), a base pad extension to make a 17 rounder into a 21 or 23 rounder was not capable of turning a magazine into a large capacity magazine because if you tried to use it on the 10 rounder a) the spring would probably not be long enough to function correctly and b) it wouldn't fit in any guns that I'm aware of.

Yes, that answers my question, thank you.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-15-2019, 8:33 AM
jcwatchdog jcwatchdog is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,330
iTrader: 91 / 100%
Default

Or how about you just keep all the magazines that you purchased during freedom week that already had the + base plates already installed and just leave it at that?

It’s nice to see everyone falling back in line again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M4John View Post
Im not looking to start an argument (its an internet forum, its inevitable), or a debate on facts or specifications, but rather get opinions as to what we may or may not do with high cap magazines. with that said, consider the following:

In the light of the latest "opportunity" from Judge Bennitez, acquiring (large or high) capacity magazines was a legal reality for all of us for about a week. Since then, the Judge was asked to re-think his decision, and has basically ruled if you didn't acquire/manufacture these magazines that are over 10 rounds during that week, you may no longer.
So what I want to know is, can we legally take a (high) capacity magazine which was acquired lawfully, and add a base pad to it, to further increase its capacity? Lets say you had a Glock 17 with a standard magazine for it, holding 17 ( or what ever they hold ) and add a plus 2 base pad to it. Can that be done with out breaking the law as its written?
This would be outside the scope of the law if done with a 10 round magazine... But what about an already "high cap" magazine?
My thought process is, there are definitions for High Capacity magazines... In short, a Magazine that can hold more than 10 rounds... but no where in the definition does it have a limit on how many more than 10 it can contain...
So, I guess I'm asking, can you make a high capacity magazine, a higher capacity magazine.?
Just wondering your thoughts...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-15-2019, 9:17 AM
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 6,656
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
Clearly defined in California statutes. I get the desire to resist loaded nomenclature, but, here, we are speaking specifically of California law, and california law uses that term.

Clarity is needed.
Ummmm.

“Large Capacity Magazine”, Yes? PEN 16740
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.”
"Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool."
"The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first."
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-15-2019, 10:24 AM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Concord
Posts: 38,498
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Blog Entries: 6
Default

Legal question, so moved.

Some posts deleted as off topic after move to Legal forum.
__________________
No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-15-2019, 4:50 PM
Chewy65 Chewy65 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,727
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

You just manufactured a 19 round magazine, where none had existed. It looks like a violation of 32310 (a).
__________________
This is neither legal advice nor a legal opinion.
Being on “inactive status” with the State Bar of California I cannot practice law. Were I "active", you would not be entitled to rely on my posts because you are not my client.
Were I practicing, an attorney client relationship could only be created in a writing by both the client and myself. Not by a post, private message, or email.
I never practiced criminal nor firearms law.Do not rely on my post, but consult your own attorney.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-15-2019, 6:29 PM
champu's Avatar
champu champu is online now
NRA Member, CRPA Member,
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Redondo Beach
Posts: 921
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
You just manufactured a 19 round magazine, where none had existed. It looks like a violation of 32310 (a).
Mmmmm... maybe, but that’s pretty thin.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-15-2019, 9:04 PM
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 6,656
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy65 View Post
You just manufactured a 19 round magazine, where none had existed. It looks like a violation of 32310 (a).
If one looks to the definition of “manufacturing” in PEN 32310(b):
Quote:
(b) For purposes of this section, “manufacturing” includes both fabricating a magazine and assembling a magazine from a combination of parts, including, but not limited to, the body, spring, follower, and floor plate or end plate, to be a fully functioning large-capacity magazine.
Similarly, technically, after disassembly of an LCM for cleaning, one can’t reassemble it without transgressing.

But, that would be silly.....
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.”
"Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool."
"The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first."
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-17-2019, 7:58 PM
kcheung2's Avatar
kcheung2 kcheung2 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,031
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default

I can't speak for base pad extensions, but what the belt fed guys do (in light of freedom week) is load a dummy in the 11th-from-last spot, so that way the belt always stays at 11+ even if they get too enthusiastic & lose track when firing. Then they can reattach links to any length they want since it's already an 11+ belt.
__________________
---------------------
"There is no "best." If there was, everyone here would own that one, and no other." - DSB

Last edited by kcheung2; 05-17-2019 at 8:01 PM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 8:58 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.