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Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

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  #1  
Old 09-16-2018, 3:52 PM
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Default Found a 100+ year old spent cartridge on my property today

I've been clearing scrub oak bushes on my property for the past few weeks. Today I found a very old .44 Henry rim fire spent cartridge under about 6" of old dried oak leaves.

As far as I can tell it would have been fired from either a 1860 Henry rifle or a 1866 Winchester rifle. Both of these rifles used "firing pins" which caused two marks on the cartridge rim 180 degrees opposite of each other, just like the cartridge I found.

The case has a "H" head stamp which was from New Haven Arms which was the predecessor to Winchester.

So it was probably made in the 1860's or so...

This is the second old spent case I have found while cutting brush. The other was a Mauser 7.63 pistol case.





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Old 09-16-2018, 3:54 PM
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Very cool
I live next to an old Butterfield Stage changing station.....I need to get a metal detector.

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  #3  
Old 09-16-2018, 4:18 PM
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That is neat. It is pretty well preserved too.

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Old 09-16-2018, 4:21 PM
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Very nice. Time to get display case and metal detector.
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Old 09-16-2018, 4:24 PM
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Very cool. That is a neat piece of history.
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Old 09-16-2018, 5:14 PM
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Awesome find OP.
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Old 09-16-2018, 7:54 PM
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Pretty neat!

You have to wonder who left it there
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Old 09-16-2018, 9:11 PM
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Break out the metal detector... bet you find a lot more stuff.

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Old 09-17-2018, 4:11 AM
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Nice find.
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Old 09-17-2018, 8:36 AM
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Very Nice !!

I wonder what was shot with it ??

I doubt it was used for target practice...
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Old 09-17-2018, 8:46 AM
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Default Never seen that kind of firing pin

Pretty cool.
And, I'm slightly less ignorant than I was when I woke up this AM.
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Old 09-17-2018, 11:12 AM
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Looks like 2 light firing pin strikes before a good one. I heard those 44 rim fire were known for that.
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Old 09-17-2018, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha_romeo_XV View Post
Looks like 2 light firing pin strikes before a good one. I heard those 44 rim fire were known for that.
Given their positioning I was thinking the firing pin is struck in two places at the same time for better reliability. If done like current rimfire the priming compound covers the inside base of the casing. I suppose there could be a "holiday" in coverage and two strikes at the same time would make a misfire due to lack of coverage less likely.

Could be?
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Old 09-17-2018, 12:30 PM
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Very cool find. Second the metal detector recommendation.
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Old 09-17-2018, 5:27 PM
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Really cool! I once found a .44 Colt case that was from the 1800s.
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Old 09-17-2018, 5:36 PM
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Nice find OP......
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Old 09-17-2018, 6:07 PM
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Great collectible piece of history...
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Old 09-17-2018, 7:13 PM
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very cool find. Do you know if there was anything on your property before you house was built?
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Old 09-17-2018, 8:03 PM
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That's pretty dern cool! Don't find much neat old stuff around anymore and it's a shame.
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Old 09-18-2018, 9:09 AM
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Worthy of putting a frame and keeping as an heirloom for sure. I instantly thought of that story a few years ago where a lever action rifle was found propped up against a tree in the middle of nowhere, presumably a cowboy relic from 130+ years ago.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/18...nv-desert.html
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Old 09-18-2018, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha_romeo_XV View Post
Looks like 2 light firing pin strikes before a good one. I heard those 44 rim fire were known for that.
The other small marks on the base of the case are from production process, at least that's what I have found out.


I may try and borrow a metal detector, however I think I would find mostly nails and screws, as a few years ago I build my shop near where I found this case. I can clearly remember throwing bent nail in this area...

However maybe.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by toro1 View Post
very cool find. Do you know if there was anything on your property before you house was built?
Don't know...

However when I was excavating for the shop I built I did find a Indian "metate". A Metate is a stone used by Indians to grind corn and other nuts such as Pinon nuts and acorns. There is evidence of other Indian dwellings and other artifacts within a mile of my house... Pinon pines and scrub oaks are all over this area...

That led me to see if there was evidence of Indian use of Henry 1860 and Winchester 1866 rifles. I was surprised to find that in fact the Indians did use both of these rifles chambered in .44 Henry rim fire.

The most famous use of these rifles and the .44 Henry rim fire cartridge was by the Indians against Custer at the little Big Horn. According to the article below thousands of spent .44 Henry cases were found by archeologists when they excavated Indian fighting positions and the surrounding areas...

https://gunsmagazine.com/guns-of-the-plains-indians/


So maybe some Indian was responsible for leaving this case behind!!!

Here are a few pic's of the Metate. I took this to the local Indian Museum and they confirmed it was a legit metate...

Right when I found it, just cleaned of dirt and sand.


We keep it on our hearth. I also found the "grinder" near the metata. It's about 18" long.




The area I found the .44 Henry case would be just to the right of the jeep under the scrub oak bushes.
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Old 09-18-2018, 12:57 PM
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A couple of really nice finds you have there. When quail hunting in Lamont mdw years ago, I found a .45-60 case. Pretty neat find. But, that Henry is awesome.
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  #23  
Old 09-18-2018, 1:04 PM
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Time to make those homemade tortillas with that metate!!!

Getting the digger bug now
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Old 09-18-2018, 7:45 PM
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What neat finds. It's so cool to see the history in your backyard.
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Old 09-23-2018, 12:49 PM
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The grinder stone is called a "mano." Pretty easy to see why.

In areas where there are oak groves near some exposed flattish bedrock you can often find where the bedrock was hollowed and then used for metates. Such sites are usually winter village sites. The trees were the "property" of the village group and the metates went with them.

I have a cigar box full of old, odd fired ctg. cases I've collected from deer stand areas (usually where two finger ridges come together at the top with two intersecting "deer hiways."

When I was back east for many years I'd run my metal detector around the bases of trees in the woods that had obviously been the sites of deer tree stands (some still were). Found lots of ctg. cases and some unfired rounds, coins, pocket knife skeletons, and 3 1880 silver Deutschmarks among other coins. How the heck did THEY get there?

That .44 case is a great find! I never found one of those....yet (I'm only 75).
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Old 09-23-2018, 2:02 PM
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was there a homestead on your property 100+ years ago or was it just wilderness back then? Would be interesting to research.
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Armstrong View Post
The grinder stone is called a "mano." Pretty easy to see why.

In areas where there are oak groves near some exposed flattish bedrock you can often find where the bedrock was hollowed and then used for metates. Such sites are usually winter village sites. The trees were the "property" of the village group and the metates went with them.

I have a cigar box full of old, odd fired ctg. cases I've collected from deer stand areas (usually where two finger ridges come together at the top with two intersecting "deer hiways."

When I was back east for many years I'd run my metal detector around the bases of trees in the woods that had obviously been the sites of deer tree stands (some still were). Found lots of ctg. cases and some unfired rounds, coins, pocket knife skeletons, and 3 1880 silver Deutschmarks among other coins. How the heck did THEY get there?

That .44 case is a great find! I never found one of those....yet (I'm only 75).
Love this sort of thing - thanks!
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