Miller v. Bonta 9th Ckt "assault weapons": Held for Duncan result 1-26-24

[jcwatchdog]

Originally Posted by champu

You could always buy a few lowers if you’re feeling adventurous.

All you’d have to do for a “freedom week” for aw (if we get it), is just remove one grip wrap on something you already own. I’d convert everything I owned. Heck, I would place a forward grip on my ruger pcc9 and anything else I could think of to convert everything, including removing bullet buttons.

[Uncivil Engineer]

Originally Posted by jcwatchdog

All you’d have to do for a “freedom week” for aw (if we get it), is just remove one grip wrap on something you already own. I’d convert everything I owned. Heck, I would place a forward grip on my ruger pcc9 and anything else I could think of to convert everything, including removing bullet buttons.

I agree. The more I think about it I doubt we will be able to buy new. We will still have a 1in30 and a ten day wait. I doubt he will be able to address those. And I don't see how a stay of his ruling could be delayed 10days. But Benitez could legalize AWs allowing is to remove all the grip wraps. If that happens stock up on featureless now so you are good to go.

[NoseGoblin]

Tagged for review...

[meno377]

Bookmarked

[SkyHawk]

Originally Posted by moleculo

They're attempting to address the current situation where it's currently legal to possess and use magazines > 10 rounds except in fixed magazine semi-auto firearms with features. They're trying to get rid of that exception so that the magazines may be used in those specific type of firearms.

A 30rd mag in a mag locked 2.0 rifle just means I've got a bigger problem when it comes time to clear a malfunction in such a janky contraption.

I mean a win is a win, but it won't change my opinion on the practicality or desirability to own mag locked 2.0 rifles. It just isn't happening. No way, no how do I start converting featureless to mag locked 2.0. The Sparrow grip works just fine and leaves me with the most important feature of all - the standard mag release.

Of all the AW cases we could have gotten Benitez on, this one seems a waste. However, perhaps it is just me who can't see the long range potential of winning this case. I could be short sighted, I only play 2D chess.

Now can someone explain to me the 'Low Number Rule' that enabled this case to be transferred?

[Kraken]

Nothing more than Judge shopping.

It's amusing to see our guys using the liberals' tricks against them.

[jcwatchdog]

Originally Posted by SkyHawk

A 30rd mag in a mag locked 2.0 rifle just means I've got a bigger problem when it comes time to clear a malfunction in such a janky contraption.

I mean a win is a win, but it won't change my opinion on the practicality or desirability to own mag locked 2.0 rifles. It just isn't happening. No way, no how do I start converting featureless to mag locked 2.0. The Sparrow grip works just fine and leaves me with the most important feature of all - the standard mag release.

Of all the AW cases we could have gotten Benitez on, this one seems a waste. However, perhaps it is just me who can't see the long range potential of winning this case. I could be short sighted, I only play 2D chess.

Now can someone explain to me the 'Low Number Rule' that enabled this case to be transferred?

Or maybe he will rule that the AW laws are unconstitutional? Remember the magazine ruling was initially thought to only affect people who previously owned legal hi cap magazines. But then his ruling opened the door for everyone. So the ruling may not be as narrow as just affecting mag locked rifles.

[FirearmFino]

Originally Posted by SkyHawk

Of all the AW cases we could have gotten Benitez on, this one seems a waste. However, perhaps it is just me who can't see the long range potential of winning this case. I could be short sighted, I only play 2D chess.

If this case wasn't as focused on the magazine aspect, it's very unlikely that it would have been assigned to Benitez. Remember, this case was originally assigned to Judge Houston.

Originally Posted by SkyHawk

Now can someone explain to me the 'Low Number Rule' that enabled this case to be transferred?

When two cases are deemed similar, the case with the higher number (Miller) gets reassigned to the judge with the lower number case (Duncan).

[Sousuke]

Not trying to rain on anyone's parade but wouldn't the likely result be that since this case so heavily relies on Duncan, and since Duncan is being appealed, this case would be held until Duncan is finalized?

[Maverick237]

Originally Posted by Sousuke

Not trying to rain on anyone's parade but wouldn't the likely result be that since this case so heavily relies on Duncan, and since Duncan is being appealed, this case would be held until Duncan is finalized?

I would say that because the state is enjoined from enforcing the regulation regarding possession of large capacity magazines then it would stand that they can not dictate how we use them. I don't think Benitez will give a wide ruling and throw the AW regs. out the window like the Duncan case did (it was originally about people having to give up pre-2000 magazines) but rather the state will be enjoined from enforcing regulations against using LCMs in fixed magazine guns until the 9th circuit hears the duncan case.

[Sousuke]

Originally Posted by Maverick237

I would say that because the state is enjoined from enforcing the regulation regarding possession of large capacity magazines then it would stand that they can not dictate how we use them. I don't think Benitez will give a wide ruling and throw the AW regs. out the window like the Duncan case did (it was originally about people having to give up pre-2000 magazines) but rather the state will be enjoined from enforcing regulations against using LCMs in fixed magazine guns until the 9th circuit hears the duncan case.

So a very minor victory.

[BryMan92]

Originally Posted by Sousuke

So a very minor victory.

A major victory since most states have said these magazines can be banned and this ruling knocked out the ban and confiscation. A similar case was lost in NJ.

The longer the appeal, the more judges we get on the 9th. So the longer the case lasts, the better for us.

[splithoof]

Originally Posted by Kraken

It's amusing to see our guys using the liberals' tricks against them.

I find it uplifting that these liberals may get a dose of their own medicine. They need to experience the awful feeling that their own personal values are constantly under assault, and that there is an active, organized force working against them, and won't stop until they are totally crushed.

[Sousuke]

Originally Posted by BryMan92

A major victory since most states have said these magazines can be banned and this ruling knocked out the ban and confiscation. A similar case was lost in NJ.

The longer the appeal, the more judges we get on the 9th. So the longer the case lasts, the better for us.

Minor in relation to a particular category of firearm - IE. fixed mag.

[Noble Cause]

Originally Posted by FirearmFino

According to FPC, this case has been reassigned to Judge Benitez.

Nice.

Tagged for future developments.

Looking forward to all the Weeping and Gnashing of Teeth from the
Anti-2A Zealots that infest California when Judge Benitez explains
the Bill of Rights to them. Again.


“Individual Liberty and Freedom
are not Outmoded Concepts.”
---- U.S. District Judge Roger Benitez


Noble

[Metal God]

Tagged to follow but I will say the new judge is very knowledgeable about firearms , like really knows his stuff . I sat in on the ammo background hearing the other day and the judge was saying how he hunts or used to . When bringing up examples of questions he wanted answers to . He'd say something like . Lets say I'm a hunter and I have my Remington 700 in 7mm magnum with me . When talking about dove season he knew it was coming up , he talked about using #7-1/2 shot with a 12 gauge , New the price or 22lr and how we'll never see those cheap prices again and even properly used the word plinking in a sentence . Which I'll add none of which was fed to him , he brought all that up on his own .

It was clear he understood firearms and likely goes to the range several times a year . It was quite nice to know at least he understood what are side was saying . I can't imagine he's the type that thinks a firearm with the mag out and ammo near by is a functioning firearm , if you know what I mean .

Right now I think there would only be a select few better to hear this case , like Scalia or Thomas

[DrjonesUSA]

Originally Posted by splithoof

I find it uplifting that these liberals may get a dose of their own medicine. They need to experience the awful feeling that their own personal values are constantly under assault, and that there is an active, organized force working against them, and won't stop until they are totally crushed.

Agreed, but let's be clear;

God, History, logic, law, the Constitution, basic reasoning are all on our side.

These leftists just "FEEL" that "AW's" are scary, therefore cause to trample all over innocent, law-abiding citizens' rights.

You don't have a RIGHT to impose your feelings on others.

[Darto]

Medley of Greatest Hits:


Mag ruling Duncan v. Becerra : check!

Family ruling Dees v. County of San Diego: check !

"One nation under God" banners ruling: Bradley Johnson, v. Poway Unified School District: check!

Ammo ruling: Rhode v. Becerra: pending!

Semi auto ruling Miller v. Becerra: Reassigned to him.

[wolfwood]

answer filed
https://www.scribd.com/document/4250...Becerra-Answer

[tenemae]

To the extent a response is required, Defendants deny the allegations in paragraph 1

The AG is responding that it's not illegal to use LCMs in a fixed-mag rifle??

Defendants lack sufficient knowledge or information to form a belief as to the truth of the allegations in the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, and eighth sentences of paragraph 3

Ironic statement of the century. They could have omitted everything after the first 4 words.

[arjayo88]

Can someone please help translate this for us lay people?

[champu]

Originally Posted by arjayo88

Can someone please help translate this for us lay people?

The response is basically the DoJ saying, “We read the complaint. We don’t agree with any of the arguments in it and we think it should be thrown out.”

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by tenemae

The AG is responding that it's not illegal to use LCMs in a fixed-mag rifle??


Ironic statement of the century. They could have omitted everything after the first 4 words.

Originally Posted by arjayo88

Can someone please help translate this for us lay people?

Originally Posted by champu

The response is basically the DoJ saying, “We read the complaint. We don’t agree with any of the arguments in it and we think it should be thrown out.”

That's the pro forma 'we deny everything'.

[wolfwood]

edit sorry wrong thread

[FirearmFino]

First Amended Complaint For Declaratory and Injunctive Relief

The amended complaint expands the types of guns whose ban is being challenged in the lawsuit:

Plaintiff Miller would also acquire a new semi-automatic, centerfire rifle from Plaintiffs John Phillips and PWG that does not have a fixed magazine but has one or more of the features listed in Penal Code § 30515(a)(1), having an overall length of less than 30” but more than 26”, but for the State’s laws, Defendants’ FFL dealer enforcement practices, and fear of arrest, prosecution, and loss of property and liberty under Defendants’ policies, practices, and customs.

Plaintiff Hauffen desires to add to that firearm one or more of the features described by Penal Code § 30515(a)(1), such as a flash hider, pistol grip, or collapsible stock, and reconfigure it to an overall length of at least 26” but less than 30”, to reform such firearm into a standard configuration that is in common use for lawful purposes throughout the United States but not dangerous and unusual, and would but for the State’s laws and fear of arrest, prosecution, and loss of property and liberty under Defendants’ policies, practices, and customs.

Plaintiff Rutherford desires to acquire from Plaintiffs John Phillips and PWG, possess, transport, and use for lawful purposes: (1) A semi-automatic, centerfire rife with one or more characteristics listed in Penal Code § 30515(a)(1), with an overall length of less than 30 inches but at least 26 inches; (2) A semi-automatic pistol that does not have a fixed magazine but has one or more characteristics listed in Penal Code § 30515(a)(4); (3) A semi-automatic shotgun that has the characteristics listed in Penal Code § 30515(a)(6); and, (4) A semi-automatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine; and would but for the State’s laws and fear of arrest, prosecution, and loss of property and liberty under Defendants’ policies, practices, and customs.

[paddyraid]

Originally Posted by NorCalRT

**** ya!

Truck yeah!!!

[numpty]

Originally Posted by splithoof

I find it uplifting that these liberals may get a dose of their own medicine. They need to experience the awful feeling that their own personal values are constantly under assault, and that there is an active, organized force working against them, and won't stop until they are totally crushed.

One notable difference being that our values are noble, honorable, righteous and pure while their "values" are well, piles of stinking crap!

[CandG]

Originally Posted by numpty

One notable difference being that our values are noble, honorable, righteous and pure while their "values" are well, piles of stinking crap!

They believe exactly the opposite, though. An argument that will most assuredly always fall onto deaf ears is, "Because it's what I perceive, so that's the way it should be for everyone else, too." It doesn't matter who is saying it, what they're saying it about, or who is listening - that argument is never going to get anywhere.

It's better to just stick with facts.

For example, it's a lot easier to convince someone that AR-15's are in common use (using citations, charts, sales figures, etc.), than it is to convince someone that their moral compass needs calibration. Even Timothy McVeigh thought he was doing all the right things. Al Quaida, too. It's all about perception. I'd bet someone even told them their beliefs were wrong, once or twice. You have one perception, the opposition has another, and both believe theirs is the correct one, and is extremely unlikely to be convinced otherwise by simply getting told, "you're wrong and we're right because I said so."

I'm of the same belief as you - that what they believe in is probably bad for society. But they don't think that. They think what they believe in is noble, honorable, and righteous, and that what we believe in is a pile of stinking crap. So arguing back and forth over whose pile of crap is stinker is not very productive for anyone. JMHSPOC. (just my humble stinking pile of crap)

[FirearmFino]

DEFENDANTS’ NOTICE OF MOTION AND MOTION TO DISMISS CERTAIN CLAIMS IN FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT

Defendants move to dismiss Plaintiffs’ Second Amendment claim under Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 12(b)(1) for lack of standing under Article III of the United States Constitution to the extent Plaintiffs seek to declare as unconstitutional and to enjoin California Penal Code sections 30800, 30915, 30925, 30945, 30950, 31000, and 31005.

Defendants also move to dismiss Plaintiffs’ Second Amendment claim under Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 12(b)(6) to the extent Plaintiffs seek to declare as unconstitutional and to enjoin California Penal Code sections 30800, 30915, 30925, 30945, 30950, 31000, and 31005 on the ground that the FAC fails to state a claim upon which relief can be granted.

[lordmorgul]

“the FAC fails to state a claim upon which relief can be granted”

This seems to say we can’t fix our screwup so it should just be ok?


Andrew - Lancaster, CA
NRA Life Member, CRPA member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / FPC / CCRKBA / GOA / NAGR / NRA-ILA contributor, USCCA member - Support your defenders!

[CAL.BAR]

Originally Posted by Metal God

Tagged to follow but I will say the new judge is very knowledgeable about firearms , like really knows his stuff . I sat in on the ammo background hearing the other day and the judge was saying how he hunts or used to . When bringing up examples of questions he wanted answers to . He'd say something like . Lets say I'm a hunter and I have my Remington 700 in 7mm magnum with me . When talking about dove season he knew it was coming up , he talked about using #7-1/2 shot with a 12 gauge , New the price or 22lr and how we'll never see those cheap prices again and even properly used the word plinking in a sentence . Which I'll add none of which was fed to him , he brought all that up on his own .

It was clear he understood firearms and likely goes to the range several times a year . It was quite nice to know at least he understood what are side was saying . I can't imagine he's the type that thinks a firearm with the mag out and ammo near by is a functioning firearm , if you know what I mean .

Right now I think there would only be a select few better to hear this case , like Scalia or Thomas

Glad he knows his HUNTING rifles and SG's but that's NOT what's being litigated in the lawsuit. Our biggest problem is that "most" gun owners (like hunters) don't know, need or like "evil black rifles" and thus don't care if they are banned. Now if we told us all about his AR's or AK's I'd be a bit more hopeful.

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by CAL.BAR

Glad he knows his HUNTING rifles and SG's but that's NOT what's being litigated in the lawsuit. Our biggest problem is that "most" gun owners (like hunters) don't know, need or like "evil black rifles" and thus don't care if they are banned. Now if we told us all about his AR's or AK's I'd be a bit more hopeful.

Huh? There is no difference. Hunters know this, the judge knows this and you by your postings in the hunt forum shows you don’t know hunting or hunters. Today, many many hunters use an AR platform to hunt with.

[Brbecker]

Could anyone recommend an official website where I can track 2nd amendment related upcoming court dates ?

[FirearmFino]

MEMORANDUM OF POINTS AND AUTHORITIES IN SUPPORT OF DEFENDANTS’ MOTION TO DISMISS CERTAIN CLAIMS IN FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT

[USMCM16A2]

The memorandum,


More of Becerras double talk. The State has had 3 tries at this, Roberti-Roos 1989, SB23 Perata's abortion in 2000. Also 2016 or so in the bullet button declaration as an assault weapon. How much longer is this going to go on? When will the house of cards finally fall? I hope Honorable Judge Benitez shoves a size 22 Shaq sized boot straight up Becerras fat liberal ***. Amen A2

[bigstick61]

Am I understanding the amended complaint correctly by interpreting it as basically making this suit into a vehicle to challenge the CA AWB wholesale?

[ShaneB]

Originally Posted by CAL.BAR

Glad he knows his HUNTING rifles and SG's but that's NOT what's being litigated in the lawsuit. Our biggest problem is that "most" gun owners (like hunters) don't know, need or like "evil black rifles" and thus don't care if they are banned. Now if we told us all about his AR's or AK's I'd be a bit more hopeful.

You’re a lib... how the **** are you going to say anything about fighting for 2A rights! You’re the enemy by default!

[Maverick237]

Originally Posted by bigstick61

Am I understanding the amended complaint correctly by interpreting it as basically making this suit into a vehicle to challenge the CA AWB wholesale?

From how I'm reading it and from how the defense filed their motion to dismiss, yes.


Seems like this is going after the 50 BMG ban as well. It's a shame 50 BMG receivers are expensive (but AR/HK/AK stripped-lowers are another story).

You can bet either the MSM will stay real quiet about the AWB getting struck down or will explode into a frenzy.

[Brbecker]

How can we find out when they set a court date ?

[Maverick237]

Originally Posted by Brbecker

How can we find out when they set a court date ?

PLEASE TAKE NOTICE that, on December 16, 2019, at 10:30a.m., or as soon thereafter as the matter may be heard before the Honorable Roger T. Benitez in Courtroom 5A of the Edward J. Schwartz U.S. Courthouse, located at 221 West Broadway, San Diego, California 92101

We might get a response right before the holidays, or around Thanksgiving if we're lucky.