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  #1  
Old 05-21-2020, 11:25 AM
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Default 5.56 question

Iím new. Iíve reloaded like 150 rounds total. I suspect this is a dumb question but I donít know why:

Everyone loves Blackhills 77gr 5.56 OTM. (mk262 mod1). Problem is, itís like a buck a round.

Lake city brass
cannelured version of the 77 grain Sierra MatchKing
Unknown Ball powder Moving around 2700 fps

For me, I donít want to clone It exactly. I just want to build a Safe and similar performing round. Several powders are listed in my books thatíll push that bullet in the 2700 range Yet Iíve seen 18 part series on YouTube and read articles about cloning it.

Why couldnít you just load that bullet with an appropriate powder, in some Starline brass and Call it good? Whatís the advantage of cloning it?
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Old 05-21-2020, 11:53 AM
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If your reloading. Why clone a round.
Develop your own recipe for your gun for the best accuracy.
I usually use the powders in the book that give fastest fps.
I use Benchmark a lot. It's not the fastest but meters good.
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Old 05-21-2020, 12:30 PM
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You can also choose 68 or 69 g. 73g or 75 g.
I use Hornady 68g hpbt and 75g ELD. In my Ruger RPR 556. Worked great. Till the rifle took a crap.
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Old 05-21-2020, 12:34 PM
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223/556 is easy!pick a med burn rate powder and a match bullet,a mediocre powder charge will get you 2700fps.i load up to 2800fps without issue.
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Old 05-21-2020, 1:05 PM
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My rifle has a 556 chamber. Are you guys seeming better performance from 556 brass? It Seems like a hassle to find 556 brass that’s boxer primed (If you have a good source post it)
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Old 05-21-2020, 1:17 PM
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Brass brand won’t matter in a service type rifle,expect 4-6 reloads .wolf primed brass ,from reviews on national match.com gets 3-4 reloads and sells for roughly $140k.
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Old 05-21-2020, 1:23 PM
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Mk 262 mod 1 is good stuff. But it runs on the ragged edge of high pressure for most rifles. I've picked up a TON of Mk 262 brass at the Navy Matches and there are ejector swipes and smears from most of the shooters. When shooting Mk 262 I use a FA BCG and the Tubb CWS. I don't get swipes and smears with this setup, but it is still very firm recoiling (for 5.56).

I don't think that knucklehead with the lengthy youtube series had much of a clue at all. Blackhills is a clone of the Mk 262 mod 1 that comes out of Crane ID.

What are you trying to do with your round, go fast or group well? If you really want good groups, there are many well known combinations of powder and match bullets that just work. For me, the closest reload that I've had good results with AND felt like Mk 262 Mod 1, is a 77gr SMK over AA2520 loaded to the upper end of the Accurate Arms 5.56 reloading data. It will cost you brass life. Keep and eye on your primer pockets and make sure you have a heavy BCG system or Buffer.

Best of Luck!
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Old 05-22-2020, 3:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 23's Dad View Post

What are you trying to do with your round, go fast or group well? !
Right now it doesnít much matter - Iím just learning. I got a new rifle. Iíve only ever shot 55gr. I figured if Iím gonna build a round, letís get something with a little more punch and reach. I do not want to push the bounds of whatís safe. I donít know enough to play with that
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Old 05-22-2020, 3:49 PM
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The first question should have been, what is the twist rate of your barrel? Lots of AR barrels can be finicky with the 77gr bullets. I have found the 69gr to be a better compromise if youíre not trying to push maximum distance.


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  #10  
Old 05-22-2020, 4:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty99 View Post
The first question should have been, what is the twist rate of your barrel? Lots of AR barrels can be finicky with the 77gr bullets. I have found the 69gr to be a better compromise if youíre not trying to push maximum distance.


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Both my arís are 1/7
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  #11  
Old 05-22-2020, 4:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clickjack View Post
Both my arís are 1/7
How long is the barrel?
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Old 05-22-2020, 4:15 PM
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14.5 ( comp makes 16).
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Old 05-22-2020, 4:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clickjack View Post
14.5 ( comp makes 16).
Every inch of barrel length is worth30-40fps,so from my 2800fps with a hornady 75,op should have velocity 200fps less.Taking shots with anything less than 73-77gr bullet is a waste of time in my opinion.Sure a 68/69 bullet will go the distance,whatever that is right now,but a heavier bullet will be more efficient.
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Old 05-22-2020, 4:31 PM
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Lee just offers a FL resize 223 die set.
Rcbs offers a small base and some other type of 223 set.

Obviously I’m using a semi-auto. Do I need a small base set to help with feeding? Does it matter?
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Old 05-22-2020, 4:39 PM
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Unless you are using a match barrel with a tight chamber a small base is pointless.
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Old 05-22-2020, 5:37 PM
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I like CFE 223. I have mostly 18" barrels with Wylde chambers and 1-8 twist. The CFE meters extremely well and lets you go for max V. I also have a 1-9 in 16" and several 16's and a 20" in 1-7. The Wylde chamber in 1-8 will shoot anything well that the AR can launch.
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Old 05-22-2020, 6:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clickjack View Post
Lee just offers a FL resize 223 die set.
Rcbs offers a small base and some other type of 223 set.

Obviously Iím using a semi-auto. Do I need a small base set to help with feeding? Does it matter?
I use the Lee die for 223. But I seat with Hornady bullet seater.
I have the RCBS small base die. I only use that when I have some once fired 556 brass.
It's been a few years. But sometimes you can find the 223/556 brass on Gunbroker.
I bought 3000 pcs. It was not cheap but it should last me years since I bought it to shoot out of bolt guns.
Brass out of your gun. You don't need the small base die.
But like the brass on Gunbroker. Military surplus. You will need the small base die.
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Old 05-22-2020, 7:51 PM
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If unsure of the brass, Full Length size & trim to SAAMI
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Old 05-22-2020, 9:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clickjack View Post
My rifle has a 556 chamber. Are you guys seeming better performance from 556 brass? It Seems like a hassle to find 556 brass thatís boxer primed (If you have a good source post it)
How tight of groups are you looking for and at what distance?
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Old 05-22-2020, 10:22 PM
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75 grain Hornady BTHP, 24.2 grains Varget, PPU brass, CCI 400 primers. Works me for me at 2600 FPS in an 18 inch barrel. Consistent to 400 yards, and for the few times I’ve shot past that to 600 yards.

I did hit an 18x24 inch plate at 980 yards twice with that set up, so obviously it’s a 1000 yard load.

going over 2650 doesn’t do me any favors, so I have no reason to hit 2700 FPS.
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Old 05-23-2020, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clickjack View Post
My rifle has a 556 chamber. Are you guys seeming better performance from 556 brass? It Seems like a hassle to find 556 brass thatís boxer primed (If you have a good source post it)
Brass is brass, a once fired 556 brass will become 223 if you are using a 223 FL sizing die.

For a gas gun, a 556 chamber has generous dimensions if compared to a 223 chambered rifle.

I use once fired LC brass.
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Old 05-24-2020, 10:51 AM
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223 bullet / powder combo you guys like?
(I have a couple lbs of IMR 4895 at the moment)

Cheap plinking bullet?
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Old 05-24-2020, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clickjack View Post
223 bullet / powder combo you guys like?
(I have a couple lbs of IMR 4895 at the moment)

Cheap plinking bullet?
H75 and 24gr IMR4895 to start.I have shot it hotter,but for 1-200yds dont need it.Powder Valley has factoryseconds($75) 69gr,I suspect theyre Noslers.
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Last edited by highpower790; 05-24-2020 at 10:56 AM..
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Old 05-24-2020, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
75 grain Hornady BTHP, 24.2 grains Varget, PPU brass, CCI 400 primers. Works me for me at 2600 FPS in an 18 inch barrel. Consistent to 400 yards, and for the few times Iíve shot past that to 600 yards.

I did hit an 18x24 inch plate at 980 yards twice with that set up, so obviously itís a 1000 yard load.

going over 2650 doesnít do me any favors, so I have no reason to hit 2700 FPS.
I hit a 600 yard bulls eye in an Iron Sights match with my grandfathers hand-me down bolt action .223 - donít think I keep that to myself.

Of Coarse I usually donít tell people about all the other shots I took that day
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Old 05-24-2020, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clickjack View Post
223 bullet / powder combo you guys like?
(I have a couple lbs of IMR 4895 at the moment)

Cheap plinking bullet?
For "plinking" I have 55g FMJ ( same bullet as M193 ammo) and 62g FMG steel core ( same bullet as M855 ammo) they were bought in bulk on sale for 5 cents / bullet. Both shoot OK from 1/8 20" or a 1/9 16" barrel with BLC-2 or CFE223 ball powder.

For the 77g bullets I use Varget or Reloader17 and seat bullets long to chamber length and shoot 1/7 20" or 1/8 24" barrel. Since match shooting format is single load for slow prone its not a problem they don't fit in a magazine.

If I was going for accuracy and long range (beyond 100 yds) If I had a choice I would not shoot with a 14Ĺ barrel
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Old 05-24-2020, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha_romeo_XV View Post
For "plinking" I have 55g FMJ ( same bullet as M193 ammo) and 62g FMG steel core ( same bullet as M855 ammo) they were bought in bulk on sale for 5 cents / bullet. Both shoot OK from 1/8 20" or a 1/9 16" barrel with BLC-2 or CFE223 ball powder.

For the 77g bullets I use Varget or Reloader17 and seat bullets long to chamber length and shoot 1/7 20" or 1/8 24" barrel. Since match shooting format is single load for slow prone its not a problem they don't fit in a magazine.

If I was going for accuracy and long range (beyond 100 yds) If I had a choice I would not shoot with a 14Ĺ barrel
I like 14.5 for what it is. Love a good bolt action too. The longer barrel ARís donít really do it for me.
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Old 05-25-2020, 8:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clickjack View Post
It Seems like a hassle to find 556 brass thatís boxer primed (If you have a good source post it)
Are you serious? 5.56 brass is everywhere and it is boxer primed.


https://ammoseek.com/reloading/brass/5.56x45mm-nato
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Old 05-25-2020, 9:27 AM
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Johnny's reloading bench has done a multi-part series on the Mk262.

Part I is here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iir...edzK6bhXWzZyVl

He's basically settled on a velocity of around 2750 fpx with the SMK 77gr and a couple of powders, one of which is Accurate 2520. He also recommends the Remington 7 1/2 primer.

I found the SMK to be a touch too expensive for my taste. I instead took inspiration from Hornady's TAP 223 with Hornady 75gr BTHP and 24.7 grains of 2520 and CCI primers. Its a zippy 75 gr at 2840ish fps out of a 16" barrel if I remember right with out looking at my notes. WARNING: My load is my load. Be sure to work up to it before replicating.
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Old 05-25-2020, 9:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baih777 View Post
If your reloading. Why clone a round.
Develop your own recipe for your gun for the best accuracy.
I usually use the powders in the book that give fastest fps.
I use Benchmark a lot. It's not the fastest but meters good.
I personally took inspiration from a factory round, and developed it as best I can for my rifle. Its a lot easier to develop around a known projectile that works well at a certain velocity. It's still a lot of work testing different powders, primers etc.

Last edited by MarikinaMan; 05-25-2020 at 9:32 AM..
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clickjack View Post
223 bullet / powder combo you guys like?
(I have a couple lbs of IMR 4895 at the moment)

Cheap plinking bullet?
IMR4895 will work, but you're going to find its long grained kernels make it a little difficult in filling the small, 223 case. Once you use it up, there are other powders out there that are shorter grained that will work better.

Benchmark, IMR 8208 XBR, H-4895, Varget, AR Comp, RE-15 and any of the medium burning ball powders.

If I were to pick one powder for 223, it would be IMR 8208 XBR, it works with the lighter bullets to the heavies.
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