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  #1  
Old 09-21-2023, 10:12 PM
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Default Why am I so bad

I can shoot long rifles not worse than most people. Also I shoot BBgun consistently enough. All I am bragging is to say that my eyes are not seem to blame. But when I shoot a pistol it is something to see. My grouping from 7 yards is 2-3 feet. Yes feet not inches. It is difficult to see if it deviates in a particular direction as most of the bullet holes are not even on the target. I understand a BB gun is not a real pistol, but still cannot explain how it is possible to be at least second good in a group of 10 people with a bb gun but be so impossibly far behind anybody who takes a real gun for the first time. Worst of all is that I am shooting a pretty heavy pistol that has almost no recoil. I see the sights stay on the target all the time and after the shot there is a slight flip straight up. I do not see the barrel deviates in any direction but the result is. Maybe I have special bullets that go around the corner?
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Old 09-21-2023, 10:36 PM
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Record yourself shooting and pinpoint your issue(s) yourself or post it here. Have you taken any sort of formal instruction? If not, do it.
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Old 09-21-2023, 11:14 PM
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Ayy karamba, it could always be worse.

What BB are you using?
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Old 09-22-2023, 12:13 AM
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"I am shooting a pretty heavy pistol"

".....A pistol...."

have you tried others? have OTHER people shot that pistol and done OK?

what model is it and maybe its got a problem.

I suggest, even before taking any training, invest in a couple cheap .177 airguns. Even at one or two pumps for low power, they will have plenty of velocity to "group" out a few dozen yards. Plus you can use them in places you can't shoot real guns, like from living room down the hall to the far wall of the garage.
https://www.amazon.com/Crosman-P1377...56&sr=8-2&th=1

The rifle will be light enough to shoot one handed like a pistol.
https://www.amazon.com/Crosman-760B-...s%2C461&sr=8-5

Pistol only wants to shoot pellets but the rifle shoots pellets or BBs with 18 ball mag bolt action that reloads from 300ball reservoir by shaking the rifle.

Last edited by Big Chudungus; 09-22-2023 at 12:16 AM..
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Old 09-22-2023, 12:16 AM
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Just joined, 1 post.
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Old 09-22-2023, 1:00 AM
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That's one way to troll a community. It's like going to a gay forum and starting a thread about how you suck at sucking d$&@k. Curious to see what this is all about, wouldn't be the first if it was an anti-gunner trying to provoke a reaction.
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Old 09-22-2023, 4:13 AM
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Mix in some dummy rounds with the live rounds next time you shoot. When you fall on a dummy round you will see exactly what you are doing. More than likely, anticipation.
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  #8  
Old 09-22-2023, 6:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karamba View Post
I can shoot long rifles not worse than most people. Also I shoot BBgun consistently enough. All I am bragging is to say that my eyes are not seem to blame. But when I shoot a pistol it is something to see. My grouping from 7 yards is 2-3 feet. Yes feet not inches. It is difficult to see if it deviates in a particular direction as most of the bullet holes are not even on the target. I understand a BB gun is not a real pistol, but still cannot explain how it is possible to be at least second good in a group of 10 people with a bb gun but be so impossibly far behind anybody who takes a real gun for the first time. Worst of all is that I am shooting a pretty heavy pistol that has almost no recoil. I see the sights stay on the target all the time and after the shot there is a slight flip straight up. I do not see the barrel deviates in any direction but the result is. Maybe I have special bullets that go around the corner?
I would bet you’re anticipating sound and recoil with the pistol. Try crushing the gun, especially with your support hand. Then slowly press the trigger straight back towards your nose, steadily increasing pressure from 1 to 2 to 3, etc. Think of how you would press the button on an elevator in slow motion. Don’t worry about the gun firing, it will happen when it happens. Let it be a surprise. If you do this several times in a row, I bet your groupings will be a lot closer. Once you see better results by doing this, you’ll start to appreciate the fact that good shooting is all about pressing the trigger without disturbing the sights. At that point, this video will start to make a lot of sense. Watch it several times and internalize what he’s saying. It will change your life.



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  #9  
Old 09-22-2023, 6:34 AM
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Watch Jerry Miculek andcdo what he does.

https://m.youtube.com/user/MiculekDotCom
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Old 09-22-2023, 6:35 AM
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You so bad. Come to my lair and my freaks will use the naughty paddle on your bare bottom.
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Old 09-22-2023, 8:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karamba View Post
But when I shoot a pistol it is something to see. My grouping from 7 yards is 2-3 feet. Yes feet not inches.
I'd suggest firmly benching the pistol. Slow trigger squeeze, look at the sights, not the target.

If recoil doesn't feel like someone whacking the muzzle with a hammer, you're anticipating and moving the gun before the shot goes off.

You have fewer support points with a pistol vs a rifle, and fewer pre-stressed joints involved. Lot easier to introduce pre-shot movement.
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Old 09-22-2023, 8:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karamba View Post
I can shoot long rifles not worse than most people. Also I shoot BBgun consistently enough. All I am bragging is to say that my eyes are not seem to blame. But when I shoot a pistol it is something to see. My grouping from 7 yards is 2-3 feet. Yes feet not inches. It is difficult to see if it deviates in a particular direction as most of the bullet holes are not even on the target. I understand a BB gun is not a real pistol, but still cannot explain how it is possible to be at least second good in a group of 10 people with a bb gun but be so impossibly far behind anybody who takes a real gun for the first time. Worst of all is that I am shooting a pretty heavy pistol that has almost no recoil. I see the sights stay on the target all the time and after the shot there is a slight flip straight up. I do not see the barrel deviates in any direction but the result is. Maybe I have special bullets that go around the corner?
You need someone to teach you how to shoot. That's all. Just some one-on-one instruction from someone who knows how to shoot a pistol. That person can evaluate your pistol, your ammo, your stance, and your shooting technique and can go from there.

I recommend that this person not be your buddy or just someone from the local range who shoots a lot. Your problem cannot be solved by someone without the knowledge and ability to teach you how to shoot the correct way.
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Old 09-22-2023, 9:33 AM
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You so bad. Come to my lair and my freaks will use the naughty paddle on your bare bottom.
Finally, a post worthy of the question?
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  #14  
Old 09-22-2023, 9:41 AM
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To the grammar policeman above: yes I am not a native English speaker. Thank you for being helpful.
To others with actual advises: Is it considered a bad etiquette at a shooting range to ask someone from the next lane to try out your gun if he can shoot better with it ?
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Old 09-22-2023, 9:44 AM
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Best thing to do is find a shooting class and get some quality instruction.
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Old 09-22-2023, 9:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karamba View Post
Is it considered a bad etiquette at a shooting range to ask someone from the next lane to try out your gun if he can shoot better with it ?
no it's not if you ask them if they are willing to shoot your gun just to confirm whether your poi is different from his.
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Old 09-22-2023, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karamba View Post
To the grammar policeman above: yes I am not a native English speaker. Thank you for being helpful.
To others with actual advises: Is it considered a bad etiquette at a shooting range to ask someone from the next lane to try out your gun if he can shoot better with it ?
It's more about you being a very new member and your first post being somewhat unusual. We've had a lot of anti-gun activists show up on the forum over the years and try to provoke certain types of responses.

But if you're serious and you're indeed a shooter, then first, welcome to CalGuns.

To answer your question. Gun ranges are similar to other social settings. If you can establish eye contact and strike a conversation, then it's very appropriate to ask people to shoot your gun to confirm if there is anything wrong. But it's usually not acceptable in reverse - you cannot ask to shoot someone's gun, you can only express interest and talk about it, then see if the person offers you to shoot it.
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Old 09-22-2023, 10:07 AM
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And post your location in your profile so people know where you live and can give you a recommendation for a local range, a local instructor or two, and most importantly, can meet you at the range and help you out.
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Old 09-22-2023, 11:27 AM
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That's one way to troll a community. It's like going to a gay forum and starting a thread about how you suck at sucking d$&@k. Curious to see what this is all about, wouldn't be the first if it was an anti-gunner trying to provoke a reaction.
Could also be a plant to use for doing scam sales later. Make it seem like the user is "trustworthy" with longer join date and posts under their name.
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Old 09-22-2023, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karamba View Post
To the grammar policeman above: yes I am not a native English speaker. Thank you for being helpful.
To others with actual advises: Is it considered a bad etiquette at a shooting range to ask someone from the next lane to try out your gun if he can shoot better with it ?
I would ask other more seasoned "assault" rifle shooters at the Redlands range back in the 80s to shoot my AKs to check to see if it was my sights or if it was me. It was me
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Old 09-22-2023, 12:04 PM
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@IVC you have quite a few antigun activists in the forum already who make sure a new person does not feel welcome, just read the responses above. You are right about finding some instructor though. I am close to San Diego and go to either Poway gun range or the one at Balboa/Convoy. Will see if they offer some classes there.
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Old 09-22-2023, 12:38 PM
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Yeah, get an instructor. I also have trouble. Shot expert in the Marines. Now, my grouping sucks with everything. Probably age.
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Old 09-22-2023, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karamba View Post
@IVC you have quite a few antigun activists in the forum already who make sure a new person does not feel welcome, just read the responses above. You are right about finding some instructor though. I am close to San Diego and go to either Poway gun range or the one at Balboa/Convoy. Will see if they offer some classes there.
If you venture up north and are around Rainbow shooting range, drop me a line and I can give you quite a few pointers on what's wrong and how to train to fix it.
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Old 09-22-2023, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karamba View Post
@IVC you have quite a few antigun activists in the forum already who make sure a new person does not feel welcome, just read the responses above. You are right about finding some instructor though. I am close to San Diego and go to either Poway gun range or the one at Balboa/Convoy. Will see if they offer some classes there.
Some are just messing with you, don?t take it to heart. Others, I agree, can be troll-ish.

Definitely look into some classes. There?s some decent trainers in Fallbrook that offer classes. Rereading your post, it seems like you?re anticipating your shots (then compared to BB). A good instructor can diagnose this quick or have you shoot some .22 or mix in some snap caps.
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Old 09-22-2023, 1:24 PM
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Have other people try your pistol and ask to try other pistols. If problems persist, then it’s you. Human factor is the most common cause. I’m teaching a group of new shooters to shoot pistols. They try my pistols and jokingly said the gun was to blame. I picked up the same pistol and put all the rounds in the middle of the target.

Then again, I recently bought a Heritage 3.5” revolver. The first 100 rounds were off by 4” high and 2” to the left, with fliers everywhere. Then it got closer to the point of aim. It now puts most rounds within 1” of point of aim after another 150 rounds. It could be the barrel needed some “leading” to be consistent. Or I just learned how to shoot it.

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Old 09-22-2023, 9:01 PM
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Simple, stop sucking OP, oh and go be poor somewhere else
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Old 09-22-2023, 10:11 PM
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Do you know which is your dominant eye? Are you, for example, right handed and right eye dominant...or left handed and left eye dominant?

If you don't know, Google how to tell which is your dominant eye.

If you've got an opposite situation going on, for example, right handed but left eye dominant, that could account for some of this...maybe most of it.
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  #28  
Old 09-23-2023, 4:48 PM
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I use an iTarget laser trainer to for poa/poi. Very useful dryfire training. Also useful for sighting in red dots. With no recoil you'll see if you're moving the gun throughout trigger pull.
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Old 09-23-2023, 5:09 PM
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Old 09-23-2023, 5:37 PM
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....could be trigger pull.

I was told to just use the tip of my finger to push the trigger back, felt weird, but I did have better accuracy.

...didn't feel like fun though.

....went back to just trying to not jerk the trigger - seems more normal and enjoyable to me.

....of course, I am not a good pistol shot so you probably shouldn't pay any attention to me.
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Old 09-24-2023, 12:01 AM
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Are you focusing on the target instead of the sights?

Or maybe the rear sight instead of the front?

If the gun has a rail, you can buy something like the Mantis dry fire system to tell you which way you are moving the gun when firing. This will give you basic ideas about what to correct.

https://mantisx.com/
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Old 09-24-2023, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSmith View Post
FUD...

Unless the OP is shooting Bullseye single-hand, this chart is moot...!

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Old 09-24-2023, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
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Unless the OP is shooting Bullseye single-hand, this chart is moot...!

_
And that lower left doesn't even seem to be connected to shooting. More like something they would teach kids at preschool these days.
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Old 09-24-2023, 1:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karamba View Post
Maybe I have special bullets that go around the corner?
@OP - I would second those who recommend getting competent instruction...

Good luck!!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by IVC View Post
And that lower left doesn't even seem to be connected to shooting. More like something they would teach kids at preschool these days.
#oof




Quote:
Originally Posted by Devilock04 View Post
If the gun has a rail, you can buy something like the Mantis dry fire system to tell you which way you are moving the gun when firing. This will give you basic ideas about what to correct.
True! Focus on the direction that the gun moved during/on the trigger press.

However that is where it ends... Should end...
The diagnostics of the MantisX is based on the age-old cliche chart, which applies to one-handed Bullseye shooting. So much so that the Tactical Performance Center finally did an info-video on alternative diagnostics:







Personally (have a Mantis since 2018) - with the risk of oversimplifying - I just look at where the gun moved, and just adjust in the next rep my grip/wrist while ensuring that the trigger goes straight back while maintaining acceptable alignment.



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Old 09-24-2023, 1:37 PM
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99.99% of the time it is the shooter and not the pistol. OP, as stated above get some good instruction.

Here is a very simple drill that is incredibly useful to understand what you are doing and also a great drill to practice trigger discipline.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtKFCyupJ_0
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Old 09-24-2023, 1:54 PM
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It's not so much acquiring the skills that's the trouble, it's extremely easy to learn to shoot well. the main thing to watch out for is not to ingrain bad habits during your practice/training. The real challenge with shooting and the part that takes the most effort is maintaining your skill. Just a few months off the gun can re-develop a flinch. Obviously, like muscle memory, the more prior experience and training you've had before your hiatus, the faster it returns. The ideal is to minimize your refractory period, but not everyone can afford that, especially new shooters who never had the opportunity to stockpile munitions.
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Old 09-24-2023, 3:11 PM
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There’s something else I’ve noticed with a few people who shoot terrible:

They grip the gun extremely tight, basically trying to choke the gun to death while pulling the trigger. The reasoning is they are trying to minimize the recoil by putting a death grip on the gun. What ends up happening, is as they grip, the gun shakes and so when the gun is fired, the bullet holes are all over the place.

After about five minutes of this they complain that shooting is tiring. That’s when I figure out what they’re doing and correct their death grip.
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Old 09-24-2023, 3:14 PM
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Quote:
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I have no idea where this image came from, but I have not seen any evidence of it to be true in any practical shooting session, and this includes single-hand bullseye, which I shoot often.
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Old 09-24-2023, 3:49 PM
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Dr. Peter Venkman Dr. Peter Venkman is offline
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Assuming sights are aligned when the trigger is being pressed, you are changing your grip pressure (typically going from light to squeezing) when pressing the trigger. Often there is also flinch with the whole hand and arm moving or the wrist deviating.

Best way to catch this is by filming yourself shooting in slow motion or shooting 50/50 drills (loaded chamber, no magazine in the gun, and two trigger presses). Lots of good info already posted in this thread.

Pistols are inherently harder to shoot than long guns due to the shooter only having two points of contact and often times the trigger weighs more than the gun.

Last edited by Dr. Peter Venkman; 09-24-2023 at 3:56 PM..
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Old 09-24-2023, 4:47 PM
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It is a difficult and learned skill to grip the handgun properly, loosely but not too loose (relaxed is the better term but no loose) and to pull the trigger without otherwise moving the gun. As quickly as one is able without breaking proper form.

The other thing is most people are wildly optimistic about handgun accuracy. While it's possible to shoot astonishingly small groups at distance - being able to reliably and quickly shoot a Mozambique drill at 10 yds is plenty for practical needs.

A Dicken drill is not bad but for "advanced" practice. Distance and cover help here. You have time to brace and aim.
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