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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 07-15-2019, 3:23 PM
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Default San Diego City Council Meeting - What Transpired?

City Council meeting today.

Has anything transpired regarding the city attorney's recommended "Safe Storage" ordinance?

thnx
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Old 07-15-2019, 4:20 PM
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Fox News just flashed that the SD City Council passed the "Safe Storage" ordinance.

https://fox5sandiego.com/2019/07/15/...un-safety-law/

Nothing more than grounds for another legal challenge. Only way to stop these lunatics.
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Old 07-15-2019, 4:23 PM
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Quote:
San Diego passes ordinance to require gun owners to lock away firearms at home
By Alex Riggins
Jul 15, 2019 | 7:47 PM

The San Diego City Council voted 6-2 on Monday to pass a new gun storage ordinance aimed at preventing accidental shootings and other firearm-related injuries and deaths.
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...rearms-at-home

//
// Please do not quote whole articles.
//
// Librarian
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Old 07-15-2019, 4:25 PM
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Has to be fought in court somehow. This went down exactly as one would expect these days.
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Old 07-15-2019, 4:26 PM
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I was there it was a joke. Non of those people cared what we had to say
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Old 07-15-2019, 4:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
I was there it was a joke. Non of those people cared what we had to say

Yep. It's all decided, it's just a dog and pony show to say that, hey we listened to you. There is no time to consider anything of course being said. You see this over and over when things get railroaded through.
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Old 07-15-2019, 4:34 PM
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So how does this law view a rifle stored with the bolt removed?
Illegal I'm sure.

God I hate these idiots.
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Old 07-15-2019, 4:38 PM
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I found this quote interesting:
//
// From https://timesofsandiego.com/politics...their-weapons/
//

Quote:
Wendy Wheatcroft, founder of San Diegans for Gun Violence Prevention, framed the ordinance as a way to keep military veterans, first responders and law enforcement officers from committing suicide in addition to keeping guns away from children. As of June 19, 97 police officers and 46 firefighters have killed themselves in the U.S. since the beginning of this year, according to Wheatcroft.

"We need to attack this from all angles, not just locking up firearms but also making sure they have adequate mental health support," Wheatcroft said. "But we also need to be reducing the means and the access to a firearm because in a moment of crisis, even having that gun locked up can be the difference between life and death."
So a key purpose of this law is to prevent LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS from having immediate access to their handguns in case they feel suicidal (or even homicidal)??? Of course this is only when they're at home and off duty. Otherwise, when they're on the job, it's time to lock and load. And when they go on duty, exactly who unlocks the firearm that, maybe even minutes earlier, they couldn't be trusted to access for fear they'd off someone?

I like how the locked firearm will slow down a suicidal LEO or fireman long enough for them to regain self control yet the firearm can still become accessible and usable quickly enough to be used for the defense of one's home and family in the event of a burglary, robbery or home invasion. Neat trick explaining that one.
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Old 07-15-2019, 4:41 PM
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It's all the usual emotional manipulation grandstanding politician BS.
We all can write that script.
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Old 07-15-2019, 4:42 PM
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Don’t bother applying logic their goal is total disarmament by a thousand cuts.
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Old 07-15-2019, 4:43 PM
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So when is this tyrannical law supposed to go into effect?
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  #12  
Old 07-15-2019, 5:19 PM
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Thanks for the update.

Anyone have a link to the new ordinance and the enforcement penalties?
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Old 07-15-2019, 5:52 PM
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Just ignore it.
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  #14  
Old 07-15-2019, 6:10 PM
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the only way this crap stops is litigation that ends with a big hit to the pocket book, but lately it seems like they just don't care how much money is wasted.
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Old 07-15-2019, 6:46 PM
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Gun must be inoperable? It's inoperable without a mag..? Inoperable without rounds..? What are they talking about? Cut them in half? Everyone's guns in SD must be rendered useless?

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  #16  
Old 07-15-2019, 7:05 PM
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Yawn.....

Lawsuit #?
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Old 07-15-2019, 7:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
I was there it was a joke. Non of those people cared what we had to say

You're exactly right. They dont care about anything you have to say. All they view you as is a simpleton that needs to be told how to live your life and all your financial resources drained for them to squander. They actually despise you and everything you believe in and if not for the fact that you do somewhat still have the ability to defend yourself they'd put you on train tomorrow if they could.
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Old 07-15-2019, 7:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
I was there it was a joke. Non of those people cared what we had to say
Thank you for being there and to all those who spoke against as well. I was at work but listened into the live feed. Unbelievable the people promoting this Ordinance. The genuine passion of the opposition was encouraging however.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTHUSIAST View Post
So when is this tyrannical law supposed to go into effect?
30 Days from passage, but as Librarian indicates in post #19 below it sounds like its to be voted on again?

Link to Video:

Minute 3.00 - City Attorney Mara Elliott presents
Minute 12.00 - In Favor speakers starting with Todd Gloria
Minute 40.00 - In Opposition speakers
Minute 1.10.00 - In Favor Speakers (again)
Minute 1.38.00 - Councilmember questions/comments
-1.43.00 Councilman Sherman speaks against
-1.48.00 Councilman Cate speaks against
Minute 1.55.00 - The Vote. Passes 6-2.

Link to Ordinance Language:

Quote:
BE IT ORDAINED, by the Council of the City of San Diego, as follows:

Section 1. That Chapter 5, Article 3 of the San Diego Municipal Code is amended by adding new section 53.17, to read as follows:

§53.17 Residential Safe Storage of Firearms

(a) Purpose and Intent. It is the purpose and intent of this section that the storage of firearms in residences within the City of San Diego be
regulated for the protection and health of the public and to prevent firearm
access by a person who is not the authorized user of a firearm.

(b) Definitions.
For the purposes of this section, defined terms appear in
italics. The following definitions apply in this section:
(1) Accessory structure has the same meaning as in San Diego
Municipal Code section 113.0103.
(2) Authorized user means a person who is not prohibited from
owning or possessing a firearm.
(3) Firearm has the same meaning as in San Diego Municipal Code
section 53.10.
(4) Locked container has the same meaning as in California Penal
Code section 16850.
(5) Mobilehome has the same meaning as in San Diego Municipal
Code section 113.0103.
(6) Person has the same meaning as in San Diego Municipal Code
section 11.0210.
(7) Residence means any structure intended or used for human
habitation including, without limitation, houses, condominiums,
apartments, and mobilehomes.
(8) Structure has the same meaning as in San Diego Municipal Code
section 113.0103.
(9) Trigger lock means a firearm safety device approved by the
California Department of Justice Bureau of Firearms in accordance
with California Penal Code section 23635.

(c) Prohibition.
It is unlawful for any person to keep a firearm within any
residence, including its accessory structures, unless the firearm is stored
in a locked container or disabled with a trigger lock.

(d) Exceptions.
Subsection (c) shall not apply in the following circumstances:
(1) the firearm is carried on the body of a person who is an authorized
user of the firearm, or
(2) the firearm is in the immediate control of the authorized user so
that the person can readily retrieve and use the firearm as if carried
on the person’s body.

(e) Reporting Lost or Stolen Firearms. In order to encourage reports to law
enforcement agencies of lost or stolen firearms, a person who files a
report with a law enforcement agency notifying the agency that a firearm
has been lost or stolen shall not be subject to prosecution for violation of
this section for the firearm that is reported lost or stolen.

Section 2. That a full reading of this Ordinance is dispensed with prior to passage, a written copy having been made available to the Council and the public prior to the day of its passage.

Section 3. That this Ordinance shall take effect and be in force on the thirtieth day from and after its final passage.

Last edited by Crusader Matt; 07-15-2019 at 9:21 PM.. Reason: Spelling Errors/Added info
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Old 07-15-2019, 8:00 PM
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Basically repeating the DC ordinance in Heller - eventually a clear loser.

But this is right -
Quote:
Originally Posted by CessnaDriver View Post
Yep. It's all decided, it's just a dog and pony show to say that, hey we listened to you. There is no time to consider anything of course being said. You see this over and over when things get railroaded through.
The public hearings almost never occur until the votes are settled - so, early contact with the council members might conceivably have had an influence.

Also,
Quote:
The vote is the first of two required for the ordinance to become law, allowing residents a second opportunity to comment on the proposal. The council did not indicate if it plans to hold the second vote prior to the beginning of its summer recess on Aug. 7.
https://timesofsandiego.com/politics...their-weapons/

Time to call
Councilwoman Jennifer Campbell
Councilwomen Vivian Moreno
Councilwomen Barbara Bry
and the 'technically nonpartisan' 3 other Dems.

https://www.sandiego.gov/citycouncil

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Old 07-15-2019, 8:17 PM
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I am sick of abiding by unconstitutional laws enacted by ignorant, and egotistical politicians.

I will do what is right to protect my family.

Period.
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Old 07-15-2019, 8:37 PM
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San Diego City Council
Passes Overreaching Regulation


It is unfortunate, but this afternoon, the City of San Diego did pass a very overreaching firearms storage law that will affect all residents of the City of San Diego. The vote was 6 to 2 in favor of passing the proposal into law.


San Diego County Gun Owners PAC met with council members, attended committee meetings, rallied residents of the City of San Diego to make statements, showed up at the City Council meeting, brought it to the attention of media, and did all we could to stop the law from passing. Unfortunately, the current makeup of the San Diego City Council was too much to overcome.


But it's not all bad news. Through activism and hard work, City Attorney's office changed the penalty to potentially be an infraction rather than a misdemeanor. This is an important move. A misdemeanor involving firearms is potentially devastating to gun owners that could result in incarceration, the loss of rights, or the end of a career. An "infraction" is not as serious (think speeding ticket or jaywalking). Although we are proud that we were able to make an important change, this is still a horrible overreach and we completely disagree with its passing.


The law now requires all residents of the City of San Diego to store their firearms locked, inside a safe, or otherwise inoperable inside their house unless they are touching the firearm or "in control". It is very vague and left a lot undefined. Once it is fully written and approved, we will send out the details.


Although we lost this one, SDCGO is proud to have brought this unconstitutional law to the attention of the Second Amendment community and worked hard to engage with the city council members.


Thank you to all the SDCGO members for attending! There were so many great statements by so many great gun owners. Let this not discourage, but rather let it strengthen your resolve. While other flee and complain; you continue to work hard. We are just around the corner from another election and SDCGO is going to need your help getting the right people elected so this kind of thing never happens again.


Thank you all for your support and help.


Together, We Will Win!


-SDCGO Board and Staff
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Old 07-15-2019, 8:50 PM
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The exact opposite of Heller:


"We need to attack this from all angles, not just locking up firearms but also making sure they have adequate mental health support," Wheatcroft said. "But we also need to be reducing the means and the access to a firearm because in a moment of crisis, even having that gun locked up can be the difference between life and death."
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Old 07-16-2019, 6:58 AM
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"Once it is fully written and approved, we will send out the details."

I'm not understanding.

As of today it's not fully written and not approved?

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Old 07-16-2019, 7:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
I was there it was a joke. Non of those people cared what we had to say
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvoXguy View Post
You're exactly right. They dont care about anything you have to say. All they view you as is a simpleton that needs to be told how to live your life and all your financial resources drained for them to squander. They actually despise you and everything you believe in and if not for the fact that you do somewhat still have the ability to defend yourself they'd put you on train tomorrow if they could.
I showered, shaved and put on a suit to meet with the Glendale City Council regarding the proposed closure of the Glendale Gun Show.
I has worked on some talking points and had my notes ready.
I showed up at the meeting early to be sure I had a chance to speak.
I was impressed by the huge pro-gun turnout.
The main meeting room was packed to standing room only, with the downstairs lobby also full.
The Council piddled with this issue and that, all the while looking at all the gunners knowing that the gun show topic was next up.
When we got to the gun show topic, the Council closed the meeting early saying that "emotions were too high for a discussion" and said they would reschedule the discussion of the gun show at a later meeting, date to be announced.
Then they voted mid-week in a private meeting to close the show, having never heard their constituents.
Sure, their decision was already made, but to deny the citizens the opportunity to speak is disgusting.
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Old 07-16-2019, 7:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvoXguy View Post
You're exactly right. They dont care about anything you have to say. All they view you as is a simpleton that needs to be told how to live your life and all your financial resources drained for them to squander. They actually despise you and everything you believe in and if not for the fact that you do somewhat still have the ability to defend yourself they'd put you on train tomorrow if they could.
I tried to explain to them that this new law is open to an as applied challenge even with current precedent and they were going to get sued. That did not go over well.
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Old 07-16-2019, 8:33 AM
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So I'm on the jury for a man that shot and killed the guy trying to rape his daughter in her bedroom at home. He's being out on trial for not having his firearms secured "in a safe manner." Now it's in the hands of the jury.

Guess how I vote.
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Old 07-16-2019, 9:21 AM
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How did a people allow the city to do this? Waste tax payers money on something clearly contrary to the ruling of Heller which made it quite clear that requiring people store firearms in a certain manner was unconstitutional, particularly a manner that made the firearm unusable for immediate defense.

You can be held responsible under existing and seperate law in CA for a minor gaining access to your firearm through your own fault.
This ordinance has nothing to do with that.

I heard some months prior to this law that the real reasons was law enforcement doing raids and welfare checks didn't like entering homes where guns could legally be anywhere locked and loaded.
The DA proposed a law requiring people not have guns immediately available so the law enforcement wouldn't run into that risk so often. That way only they have the locked and loaded guns when they enter a citizen's home.
Apparently they took an 'it's for the children' approach in the end to accomplish the same thing as it gets better public traction.

I hope you guys plan to vote out Summer Stephen.
A law to make it easier to raid citizens. Keep in mind this is citizens not already prohibited which would have already been a crime, in a state where it is easier to be prohibited than most other states in the nation. This would be specificaly targeting legal gun owners.
I believe it was in a press briefing they alluded to the real reasons for needing this law some months back. It wasn't to save the children. It was so law enforcement entering homes of people that legally own guns would feel less uncomfortable. While being so obviously contrary to the Heller ruling that specifically said storage requirements in the home are unconstitutional that they are simply throwing away the money of San Diego tax payers. They don't want your home to be your castle, castles are harder to raid and sometimes you get hurt doing so.
So based on that I would presume the idea for this law actually is from some suggestions from some portion San Diego law enforcement, and Summer Stephen made it happen for them.

Last edited by Lawbitercitizen; 07-16-2019 at 9:48 AM..
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Old 07-16-2019, 9:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ojisan View Post
I showered, shaved and put on a suit to meet with the Glendale City Council regarding the proposed closure of the Glendale Gun Show.
I has worked on some talking points and had my notes ready.
I showed up at the meeting early to be sure I had a chance to speak.
I was impressed by the huge pro-gun turnout.
The main meeting room was packed to standing room only, with the downstairs lobby also full.
The Council piddled with this issue and that, all the while looking at all the gunners knowing that the gun show topic was next up.
When we got to the gun show topic, the Council closed the meeting early saying that "emotions were too high for a discussion" and said they would reschedule the discussion of the gun show at a later meeting, date to be announced.
Then they voted mid-week in a private meeting to close the show, having never heard their constituents.
Sure, their decision was already made, but to deny the citizens the opportunity to speak is disgusting.
Doesn't that violate defined processes?

The best way that I've seen to beat the government is to use their own game against them. Tie them up with their own regulations, processes and procedures. Make everything public, and when it isn't, accuse them of Brown Act violations and everything else that would make them start second-guessing themselves. It doesn't have to be directly gun-related, just distracting enough so they can't be effective in their anti-2A agenda. That's what they're doing with Trump so return the "favor", right?
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:17 AM
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This one is really badly written with all sorts of confusion. At least it was reduced to an "infraction" instead of misdemeanor. Completely un-enforceable but as usual, these laws are used to stack charges via "selective enforcement" = fascism.

I'm glad I don't live on one of these communist CA cities.
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:30 AM
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As I interpret it, you simply have it on you at all times while in your house. The issue I see is, How do they enforce it?
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MEGSDAD View Post
As I interpret it, you simply have it on you at all times while in your house. The issue I see is, How do they enforce it?
When LE investigates on a complaint, for example, of domestic violence, disturbing the peace, etc., they go fishing with stupid people who don't know how to respond to "We see that you're the registered owner of a [handgun make & model] and we would like to see how you have it stored." A nice add-on that would possibly invite LE to confiscate the handgun and ammunition, etc. if they think they can get away with it. Remember, whatever the ordinance says today, you can count on government expanding it tomorrow with only a fraction of the resistance they meet today.
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:56 AM
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You can't fix stupid. Hopefully, this goes to federal court, ad Judge Benitez draws the case.
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Old 07-16-2019, 12:00 PM
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Courts will not save us here. The legal system is "off-line" just like Congress.
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Old 07-16-2019, 1:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivers View Post
Doesn't that violate defined processes?

The best way that I've seen to beat the government is to use their own game against them. Tie them up with their own regulations, processes and procedures. Make everything public, and when it isn't, accuse them of Brown Act violations and everything else that would make them start second-guessing themselves. It doesn't have to be directly gun-related, just distracting enough so they can't be effective in their anti-2A agenda. That's what they're doing with Trump so return the "favor", right?
Yes, it is a Brown Act violation.
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Old 07-16-2019, 2:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MEGSDAD View Post
As I interpret it, you simply have it on you at all times while in your house. The issue I see is, How do they enforce it?
On you, or in your immediate control. When you are not around, lock it up.

Enforcement will be incidental to other LE contact.
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Old 07-16-2019, 5:01 PM
gixxnrocket gixxnrocket is offline
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Supposing i answer the door with a holstered sidearm...
LE or not there is bound to be a complaint. What happens if my kids get injured in the street just outside. Do i let them lay there until i disarm and lock up?
It seems like another solution in search of a problem.
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Old 07-16-2019, 8:42 PM
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If someone rents a hotel in SD, then is he/she required to lock the firearm the same as the residents there?
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Old 07-17-2019, 3:46 AM
Boblaw Boblaw is offline
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How ironic that the day after the City Council votes to protect its citizens from gun violence, that a man, in San Diego while armed with a knife invaded a local home and was shot and killed by the homeowners son, but not before his father was stabbed twice. No mention in the story as to whether the son retrieved the gun from a safe or had to remove the gun lock first.

Interesting to note that no local news articles draw the connection.

https://www.10news.com/news/local-ne...-home-break-in
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Old 07-17-2019, 4:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boblaw View Post
How ironic that the day after the City Council votes to protect its citizens from gun violence, that a man, in San Diego while armed with a knife invaded a local home and was shot and killed by the homeowners son, but not before his father was stabbed twice. No mention in the story as to whether the son retrieved the gun from a safe or had to remove the gun lock first.



Interesting to note that no local news articles draw the connection.



https://www.10news.com/news/local-ne...-home-break-in


My wife knows this the victim through work. She told
me about this yesterday. His shop has worked on my Jeep in the past. I hope he makes a full recovery and their family can move passed this.
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Old 07-17-2019, 6:20 AM
Glock21sfsd Glock21sfsd is offline
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How will they enforce this? Go door to door?
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