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Blades, Bows and Tools Discussion of non-firearm weapons and camping/survival tools.

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  #41  
Old 09-14-2018, 7:20 PM
Apostolos Apostolos is offline
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
My personal opinion? That would probably be illegal. Back when I was commuting via BART I used to have a fixed blade in my bag, and when I found the concealed fixed blade law, I switched to a folder.
Thanks for the response. Just for clarification, do you think it would be illegal for me to carry my fixed blade attached to the outside of my tactical briefcase. I would lash the sheath onto the MOLLE. Thanks again.

God Bless,
David
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  #42  
Old 09-14-2018, 9:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Apostolos View Post
Thanks for the response. Just for clarification, do you think it would be illegal for me to carry my fixed blade attached to the outside of my tactical briefcase. I would lash the sheath onto the MOLLE. Thanks again.

God Bless,
David
So far as state law is concerned (and avoiding schools and other restricted areas) that should be OK.
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  #43  
Old 09-14-2018, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
So far as state law is concerned (and avoiding schools and other restricted areas) that should be OK.


God Bless,
David
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  #44  
Old 10-10-2018, 10:56 AM
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Regarding CA PC sec. 21510 pertaining to “Switchblades”, (c) notes “transfers” as a violation, my question is:

* If I legally purchase a switchblade knife in Oregon and bring it back to my home in California locked in the trunk of my vehicle have I violated this law? Has the Oregon seller violated this law? A reply with knowledgeable opinion would be appreciated.

Here’s PC sec. 21510 from the link on page 1, post 1, https://law.onecle.com/california/penal/21510.html

Last edited by MeatyMac; 10-13-2018 at 10:13 AM..
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  #45  
Old 11-03-2018, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by MeatyMac View Post
Regarding CA PC sec. 21510 pertaining to “Switchblades”, (c) notes “transfers” as a violation, my question is:

* If I legally purchase a switchblade knife in Oregon and bring it back to my home in California locked in the trunk of my vehicle have I violated this law? Has the Oregon seller violated this law? A reply with knowledgeable opinion would be appreciated.

Here’s PC sec. 21510 from the link on page 1, post 1, https://law.onecle.com/california/penal/21510.html
(Sorry, missed this earlier)

I don't see how an Oregon seller, doing business in Oregon (and not, for example, an internet sale) would be bound by CA law.

21510 does not ban import, and your proposed method of transport does not violate (a), so it seems you would also be in the clear.

I'm sure a motivated, inventive DA could find a reason to charge you under those circumstances, but actually obeying statute law is ordinarily a pretty good defense.
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  #46  
Old 12-11-2018, 10:42 AM
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Could a person in California sell a balisong to an out-of-state buyer, through an internet forum for instance?

Or would it actually be necessary for him to drive the knives out of CA before offering them for sale?
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  #47  
Old 12-11-2018, 1:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Khromo View Post
Could a person in California sell a balisong to an out-of-state buyer, through an internet forum for instance?

Or would it actually be necessary for him to drive the knives out of CA before offering them for sale?
Since the text says
Quote:
Every person who does any of the following with a
switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in length is
guilty of a misdemeanor:
(a) Possesses the knife in the passenger's or driver's area of any
motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the public.
(b) Carries the knife upon the person.
(c) Sells, offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or
gives the knife to any other person.
and generally CA law applies only inside CA (there are exceptions, not pertinent here), your answer should be 'don't do the actions in (c) inside CA'.
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  #48  
Old 02-04-2021, 6:28 PM
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Just recovered a link from long ago (2002) - http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/knifelaw.html

Jim March was how I found Calguns.

This thread is a less-entertainingly-written version of his old post.
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  #49  
Old 03-06-2021, 6:27 PM
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I can guess the answer already however I thought I would ask you as you are more knowledgeable about California knife laws by far than I am and before I pay money to an attorney to answer the question. I also know each municipality, city, and county has separate ordnances governing the carrying of knives in addition to the State Laws but I am just asking a general in California State law question. That all said. Do you think it legal under California state law to carry a Spyderco Ronin 2 fixed blade openly on your belt (blade length is 4.08") for civilians? Thanks!

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  #50  
Old 06-05-2021, 5:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drair View Post
How is blade length measured and defined by law? Is it just the measurement of the cutting edge or from the point until it meets the handle? Is a folding knife exceeding a blade length of 3in legally allowed of carry in the city of los angeles and los angeles county?
See post 8, above

No 'official' way to measure. And it mostly does not matter, but of course does in LA city/county, as you mention.

I think I'd rely on the manufacturer's description.
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  #51  
Old 06-06-2021, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Drair View Post
Alright thanks. So regarding a folding from the laws POV, it seems that since it doesn't directly mention folding knives but mentions blade lengths of 3in and above being prohibited and whether or not you get charged will depend on the DA's discretion?
Always.

And, whether it gets to an arrest, such that charges may be laid, seems often to be related to failing the 'attitude test' with LE.
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– Declaration of Independence, July 4th, 1776
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

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  #52  
Old 06-08-2021, 3:38 PM
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Default SOR XR Question

I have been looking at a few SOG folders that are being sold at REI, Dicks Sporting Goods, and several other stores in Los Angeles lately. They are all Assisted Opening, and the blade locks in position when fully extended. My question relates to what SOG calls the XR lock.

I understand how the XR mechanism locks the blade open, however, when you watch video reviews of these various folders it appears as though you could take the knife while in the folded position and push the XR levers down. Most of the videos show that with the XR bars pushed dow, the blade can drop from the body of the knife and with a strong snap of the wrist locks into position.

Isn't this the same as ..released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever.. verbiage in the switchblade definition?

They look nice and I can't believe so many large chains would be selling them locally if there was an issue. Am I missing something here in the definition?
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  #53  
Old 06-08-2021, 4:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GEORGEP View Post
I have been looking at a few SOG folders that are being sold at REI, Dicks Sporting Goods, and several other stores in Los Angeles lately. They are all Assisted Opening, and the blade locks in position when fully extended. My question relates to what SOG calls the XR lock.

I understand how the XR mechanism locks the blade open, however, when you watch video reviews of these various folders it appears as though you could take the knife while in the folded position and push the XR levers down. Most of the videos show that with the XR bars pushed dow, the blade can drop from the body of the knife and with a strong snap of the wrist locks into position.

Isn't this the same as ..released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever.. verbiage in the switchblade definition?

They look nice and I can't believe so many large chains would be selling them locally if there was an issue. Am I missing something here in the definition?
This one - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-njQhjBhUE

Hmm -
Quote:
For the purposes of this section, "switchblade knife" means a
knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a
spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other
similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more
inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick
of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other
mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by
any type of mechanism whatsoever. "Switchblade knife" does not
include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure
applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to
the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism
that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade,
or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.
It's a little bit of a stretch, I think, but the argument might successfully be made. It's the apparent lack of 'bias toward closure' I find concerning.
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  #54  
Old 06-08-2021, 7:11 PM
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I agree, The Tac X model looks nice, but I will not purchase until it can be explained how it meets compliance standards.
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  #55  
Old 06-09-2021, 4:18 PM
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Default LA City Question

OK, I see the muni section regarding no open carrying of any knife in a pouch with a blade of 3 inches or more. The question is can you carry a regular old style folded pocket knife (not a switchblade) with a 3 inch or longer blade if it is completely concealed within a pocket or purse?

The reason I ask is there is another muni section (I think 55.01) that says anyone wanting to carry a concealed weapon must have a permit from the city. I don't know if this section only applies to firearms or everything else. It would seem that if it applies to everything, that everyone with pepper spray in their purse or pocket would need to follow the Muni section and get a permit.

And what do they mean by weapon in this muni section? The knife that I would carry would be used as a tool to open packages, letters etc. and complete woodworking projects. These sections are very vague.
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  #56  
Old 06-09-2021, 6:12 PM
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55.01 seems to apply to firearms -
Quote:
SEC. 55.01. CONCEALED WEAPONS – PERMIT.

No person, except a peace officer shall wear or in any manner carry concealed upon his person, any loaded or unloaded gun, pistol or revolver, or any other dangerous or deadly weapon permitted to be carried by law without having, at the same time, actually in his possession, and upon his person an unexpired permit so to do issued by the Board of Police Commissioners.
There's no suggestion here that the city issues, even theoretically, permits to carry concealed knives.

The usual followup is 'is a knife carried with its clip exposed concealed or open?' and I have no way to tell; a LEO who sees the clip might think it would be 'exposed/open'.
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  #57  
Old 06-09-2021, 6:48 PM
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So it sounds like it would be legal in LA to carry a Leatherman multitool that has a knife blade (folded) among it's many tools in it's collapsed state, or a folded pocket knife if either are carried completely concealed within a purse or pocket with no clip exposed.
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  #58  
Old 06-28-2021, 12:38 PM
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City of Glendale CA Bold is my doing. As I read this they don't distinguish between types of knives, folder or fixed. When they say "plain view" I'm assuming that means open carry. I take this to mean you can't open carry a 3" fixed blade. You can carry a concealed folder that is otherwise legal in the state.

- http://www.qcode.us/codes/glendale/?...-9_24-9_24_050

Quote:
9.24.050 Carrying or wearing of knives or daggers in plain view in public areas—Prohibited.

A. No person shall wear or carry in plain view any knife or dagger while in any public place, or on any public street, or upon any place open to the public.

B. The prohibitions of this section shall not apply where a person is wearing or carrying a knife or dagger for use in a lawful occupation or for the purpose of lawful recreation, or where the carrying or wearing of a knife or dagger is a recognized religious practice, or while the person is traveling to or returning from the activities specified in this subsection.

C. For the purposes of this section, the terms “knife” and “dagger” shall include any knife, dirk, or dagger having a blade three (3) inches or more in length, any ice pick or similar sharp stabbing tool, any straight-edge razor, or any razor blade fitted to a handle. (Prior code § 11-8)
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  #59  
Old 09-18-2021, 11:45 AM
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there was a conversation on Calguns recently where the parties were convinced fixed blade in glove box or otherwise not in plain view in CA was "concealed" (so need to switch to folding knives).

I'll try to find it.

But from THIS thread I'm understanding fixed blade knives are perfectly OK in car concealed or not, correct?

Ok to carry Bowie knife in car door side pocket or under seat?

Also, how much needs to be showing to not be considered "concealed on person"? What if the sheath if stuffed into a pouch on backpack shoulder strap and the belt loop is preventing 80+ of the handle from being viewed from head on? (asking for a friend)

What about a Mora knife clipped in cargo pants with less than 1/2 the handle showing?
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  #60  
Old 09-18-2021, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkie Pie View Post
I can guess the answer already however I thought I would ask you as you are more knowledgeable about California knife laws by far than I am and before I pay money to an attorney to answer the question. I also know each municipality, city, and county has separate ordnances governing the carrying of knives in addition to the State Laws but I am just asking a general in California State law question. That all said. Do you think it legal under California state law to carry a Spyderco Ronin 2 fixed blade openly on your belt (blade length is 4.08") for civilians? Thanks!


HOLY CRAP! PINKIE PIE IS BACK! WELCOME BACK SIR.

Your melt down thread where you called out the head janitor was epic.



Thanks Librarian. I really was in the dark about all of the laws on knives in California.
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  #61  
Old 09-18-2021, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Chudungus View Post
there was a conversation on Calguns recently where the parties were convinced fixed blade in glove box or otherwise not in plain view in CA was "concealed" (so need to switch to folding knives).

I'll try to find it.

But from THIS thread I'm understanding fixed blade knives are perfectly OK in car concealed or not, correct?

Ok to carry Bowie knife in car door side pocket or under seat?

Also, how much needs to be showing to not be considered "concealed on person"? What if the sheath if stuffed into a pouch on backpack shoulder strap and the belt loop is preventing 80+ of the handle from being viewed from head on? (asking for a friend)

What about a Mora knife clipped in cargo pants with less than 1/2 the handle showing?
Concealed in a vehicle is not a state-level crime, but can be a local crime; apparently Marin County has such a law.

Kindly read all of the first couple posts.

No definition for 'concealed' - will depend on LE at the time.
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  #62  
Old 09-18-2021, 8:35 PM
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UN-CONCEALED FIXED BLADE KNIVES may be legal, depending on where you are.
......

So someone can open carry a gerber guardian on their person?


And what is the penalty if busted concealed?
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  #63  
Old 09-18-2021, 8:41 PM
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And what is the penalty if busted concealed?
Cite and release?
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  #64  
Old 09-18-2021, 8:42 PM
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Originally Posted by fast54vw View Post
UN-CONCEALED FIXED BLADE KNIVES may be legal, depending on where you are.
......

1) So someone can open carry a gerber guardian on their person?


2) And what is the penalty if busted concealed?
1 - maybe, "depending on where you are."

2 - felony, as outlined in the first post in this thread .

- that's two members in the last few days who have asked questions answered in that first post.
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– Declaration of Independence, July 4th, 1776
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  #65  
Old 09-19-2021, 9:57 AM
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Default Could Or should??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Chudungus View Post
there was a conversation on Calguns recently where the parties were convinced fixed blade in glove box or otherwise not in plain view in CA was "concealed" (so need to switch to folding knives).

But from THIS thread I'm understanding fixed blade knives are perfectly OK in car concealed or not, correct?

Ok to carry Bowie knife in car door side pocket or under seat?

Also, how much needs to be showing to not be considered "concealed on person"? g?
Can you carry / keep a fixed blade knife next to the driver?

Should you carry / keep a fixed blade next to the driver?



I've been stopped enough times and never failed the criminal profile test.
I always have a pocket knife- a folder clipped to my pant pocket... wearing a suit- yes the knife is there too.

Police have never worried about my pocket knife nor OC spray in door pockets.

Should an officer see a KBar handle under the dash, it might make them criminally profile me and wonder why I have a K Bar under my dash...

I want the officer to know I'm basically law abiding and maybe I was driving safely above 50 mph.

I don't want them to think I'm sketchy as hell as I have a K bar.

I don't want to get asked out of the car
I don't want to be terry frisked
I don't want to be cuffed and set on the curb or back of a car
I don't need my car to be searched as they have PC for the K Bar

Now 45 minutes have passed.... now they get to decide their next step

1- place knife in my trunk and give me a warning
2- give me a misdemeanor cite and a court date - knife taken as evidence
3- knife realized to be OK and I get a apology for being taken out of the car and a warning for whatever PC for the initial stop.

I can think of a lot of tools that can be in my car that might be as effective as a knife but not make me seem like a questionable person who should be criminally profiled.
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Rule 2 -NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY (including your hands and legs)

Rule 3 -KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

Rule 4 -BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT
(thanks to Jeff Cooper)
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  #66  
Old 10-04-2021, 1:47 AM
SLOSA Rimfire SLOSA Rimfire is offline
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When it comes to manual-opening folding knives, California has no legal limit on blade length, so long as the knife is carried folded-up and not locked open. At least that's what a bunch of layers' websites claim -- I can't find a copy of the actual penal code online.

My local city penal code says this:

9.16.010(B) Dangerous and deadly weapons—Defined
"The term “dangerous and deadly weapon” as used in this chapter shall also include, but not be limited to:

1. Any knife having a blade of three inches or more in length;"

9.16.020 Dangerous and deadly weapons—Discharge or carrying prohibited.

B. "Except as expressly permitted by state or federal law, it is unlawful for any person to carry upon his or her person or to have in his or her possession or under his or her control in any public place within the city any dangerous weapon specified in Section 9.16.010(B);"

So the $10.00 question is does California expressly permit the carrying of any sized folder so long as it's folded-up when being carried? I can't find the exact penal code on line. All I can find is a bunch of lawyers' websites claiming that any length folding knife may be legally carried in California so long as it's closed.

Thanks for any help.
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  #67  
Old 10-04-2021, 12:36 PM
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Librarian Librarian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLOSA Rimfire View Post
When it comes to manual-opening folding knives, California has no legal limit on blade length, so long as the knife is carried folded-up and not locked open. At least that's what a bunch of layers' websites claim -- I can't find a copy of the actual penal code online.

My local city penal code says this:

9.16.010(B) Dangerous and deadly weapons—Defined
"The term “dangerous and deadly weapon” as used in this chapter shall also include, but not be limited to:

1. Any knife having a blade of three inches or more in length;"

9.16.020 Dangerous and deadly weapons—Discharge or carrying prohibited.

B. "Except as expressly permitted by state or federal law, it is unlawful for any person to carry upon his or her person or to have in his or her possession or under his or her control in any public place within the city any dangerous weapon specified in Section 9.16.010(B);"

So the $10.00 question is does California expressly permit the carrying of any sized folder so long as it's folded-up when being carried? I can't find the exact penal code on line. All I can find is a bunch of lawyers' websites claiming that any length folding knife may be legally carried in California so long as it's closed.

Thanks for any help.
Cities and counties can make their own rules. Max is a misdemeanor.

Other than the limits noted in the first post in this thread, state law is silent on lengths.

ETA I've spent a lot of time in SLO - wife is from there - and there are plenty of cowboys and farmers in town with folders clipped into pockets. I've carried mine for over 20 years. SLOPD, wisely, has better things to do than worry about those.
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– Declaration of Independence, July 4th, 1776
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

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Last edited by Librarian; 10-04-2021 at 5:14 PM..
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  #68  
Old 10-04-2021, 6:43 PM
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Just a reminder:

the first two posts in this thread have nearly all the useful info on CA knife laws.
Read those and you'll usually find your answer
- that's why those posts exist.
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When a Long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, Pursuing Invariably the Same Object, Evinces a Design to Reduce Them [I.E. the People] Under Absolute Despotism, It Is Their Right, It Is Their Duty, to Throw off Such Government, and to Provide New Guards for Their Future Security.”
– Declaration of Independence, July 4th, 1776
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Consider Samizdat; consider some reading material, such as this and that.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



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