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  #1  
Old 01-19-2021, 10:20 PM
Geofois Geofois is offline
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Default Got some IMR4831...gonna load some 30-06, 308, 303, 30-30

Hey Guys,

I was running low on powder and someone sold me a jug of IMR4831. I see load data for 30-06 in my Lyman 50th in a range of bullets weights down to 110g. I don't see data for 308. I was looking through Steve's load data and I see he used it fine for 30-06, 308, 30-30, and 303. I know we shouldn't use other people's data and today was the first time I saw his page. I'll check my other manual but figured I'd ask if anyone has used Steve's data. I can always post a WTT and see if anyone has a more middle of the road burn rate powder. It's just for target shooting in a bolt gun although I do reload for my brothers M1 Garand so maybe I'll use my surplus powder for that.
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Old 01-19-2021, 10:30 PM
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If you're talking Stevespages dot com, yes, I use his load data as a reference all of the time, especially for powder cross compatibility.
That being said, I've also found that cross compatible isn't always ideal.
Burn rate variations mean that the powder can work really well in one caliber, but can be unusually dirty, or not particularly accurate in another caliber.
So, yeah, it will work, but maybe not as well as you expect.
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Old 01-19-2021, 10:40 PM
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Thanks, I'll be using my chrony and checking primers starting on the low end so should be fine.
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Old 01-20-2021, 8:10 AM
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Works well for 30-06 with heavy bullets in bolt action rifles. Not a powder for the rest and should not be tested in them at all.
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Old 01-20-2021, 8:41 AM
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You should bookmark this link to Hodgdon's load data if you haven't.

The only one of your calibers Hodgdon has tested with IMR4831 is .30-06. There's no data for the others.

My $.02: Out of an abundance of caution I'd avoid loading anything but .30-06 until and unless you can find someone else (other than Steve's pages) who's loaded your other calibers using that powder. It doesn't seem that risky if you work up a load but I wouldn't attempt it until I understand what the risks might be.
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Old 01-20-2021, 9:05 AM
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Mis read the powder. Got it wrong!

Last edited by slamfire1; 01-21-2021 at 4:00 PM.. Reason: train wreck!
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Old 01-20-2021, 9:14 AM
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Old 01-20-2021, 10:52 AM
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Thank you Bumslie. It's always interesting that the more books we have the more published data we end up with since every book seems to leave some things out not because things are unsafe, mainly they just didn't test everything on the planet or a powder just might not be ideal. As I mentioned before my Lyman book had 30-06 all the way down to 110g =/. I just need it for 168g and maybe 150g and will see if anyone needs some slower powder to swap. Thanks guys

Thanks Jack, I use that website religiously to check on loads. I also use https://shootersreference.com/reloadingdata/ for other powders. I don't use this site too much but it downloads a nice pdf for most loads https://www.speer.com/reloading/rifle-data.html
Forgot to mention I did find a few discussions with guys that loaded 308 with it and got good results so it seems safe just not ideal. I have enough other powder for 308, 223, 30-30 etc so far but if by summer we're still screwed with supply then I might need to start using it for 308. I love shooting my 1903a3 too much so probably won't shoot 308 much for a while. That's the nice thing with 30-06, seems more versatile. It even handles my not ideal MP440 which is like TAC.

Last edited by Geofois; 01-20-2021 at 12:11 PM..
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Old 01-20-2021, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geofois View Post
Thank you Bumslie. It's always interesting that the more books we have the more published data we end up with since every book seems to leave some things out not because things are unsafe, mainly they just didn't test everything on the planet or a powder just might not be ideal. As I mentioned before my Lyman book had 30-06 all the way down to 110g =/. I just need it for 168g and maybe 150g and will see if anyone needs some slower powder to swap. Thanks guys
I'm a little out of it due to sickness, but notice what I posted was only for h4831, not imr.

I did not realize this when I initially posted.

Imr and h are not interchangeable, they are on different spots on the burn chart, but it could give you a starting point to extrapolate data if you feel inclined to use the imr powder.

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Old 01-20-2021, 11:46 AM
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Thanks Bumslie for catching that. H4831 is actually a little slower on the burn rate chart so if H4831 was used then IMR4831 being slightly faster or the same might also work. There could be other differences like shape of powder and density affecting how much you can cram into a case. I'll use my Lyman book so should be fine, thanks.
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Old 01-20-2021, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackEllis View Post
You should bookmark this link to Hodgdon's load data if you haven't.

The only one of your calibers Hodgdon has tested with IMR4831 is .30-06. There's no data for the others.

My $.02: Out of an abundance of caution I'd avoid loading anything but .30-06 until and unless you can find someone else (other than Steve's pages) who's loaded your other calibers using that powder. It doesn't seem that risky if you work up a load but I wouldn't attempt it until I understand what the risks might be.
Also - you could call Hodgdon directly and speak with a tech. They have helped me on more than one occasion regarding recipes for powder/caliber/bullet combos not published on their website.
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Old 01-20-2021, 12:41 PM
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/\ Somewhat. /\
Older calibers may not apply.

I asked them if any of their modern powders would do for .30 Herrett what 'Lil Gun did for the .22 Hornet.

"We don't have a Herrett Barrel to test."
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Old 01-20-2021, 1:32 PM
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Some data I got from a couple sources. Lyman shows a much faster velocity for lower loads but speer probably used a 20" and Lyman 24".

150g 55-61.5g(Steve) 55 2571fps – 61+ 2903(Lyman)
155g 54.2-59g(Steve)
168g 49.3-61g(Steve) 57 2450fps-61C 2693(speer) 54.5 2544 – 60.6+ 2847(Lyman)

Last edited by Geofois; 01-20-2021 at 1:34 PM..
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Old 01-20-2021, 3:02 PM
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Thanks for the links.
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Old 01-21-2021, 7:58 AM
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Mis read the powder name and got it all wrong!

Last edited by slamfire1; 01-21-2021 at 4:01 PM.. Reason: train wreck
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Old 01-21-2021, 8:37 AM
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If you don't know what an "ideal" powder is just use VV20N29 in your 308
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Old 01-21-2021, 9:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slamfire1 View Post
I have cut that load by two grains, and plan to bang away with it at 600 yards, some time in the future. Sure,the lesser load won't be moving 2884 fps, but so what, what exactly does that extra velocity get me, other than pressure problems?
I guess it depends on what you're trying to achieve, and how far you're wanting to shoot.

I agree with you, though. I just finished a run of chasing the 3,000fps fairy with a 25-06. While I did get there easily enough, I found it not all it was cracked up to be. Mind you, my fooling around was for hunting rifles, and I was searching for a flat shooting rifle that would easily "point-blank" across longer hunting distances. Turns out, my 30-06 (coupled with my traditional load) was close enough to the 25-06 at the distances I wanted to shoot, so I traded off the 25-06 for a Winchester Model 70 in .308.

As an aside, I have another rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor (a lowly Mossberg Patriot) that shoots in the mid-2,600fps range. I took a Pronghorn with it at 336 yards last fall, so in hindsight I'm left wondering why I wanted a 3,000+fps gun to begin with.

Just like to tinker, I guess.
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Old 01-21-2021, 10:03 AM
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Thank you Slamfire. I think you're talking about 3031 vs IMR4831 which is what I got a jug of. I think I'll be fine in my 30-06 with it since Lyman does have data all the way down to 110g bullets so for 168g and probably 150g should be ok. Currently using a faster powder that takes only 45g to achieve an ok velocity but I do see flattened primers and a wide spread of velocities probably due to lots of empty case space. When I get to the range either this weekend or next I'll report back here. I agree we don't need max velocity to get great accuracy and from articles I've read in other calibers it seems like the accurate load is always less than max.
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Old 01-21-2021, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geofois View Post
Hey Guys,

I was running low on powder and someone sold me a jug of IMR4831. I see load data for 30-06 in my Lyman 50th in a range of bullets weights down to 110g. I don't see data for 308. I was looking through Steve's load data and I see he used it fine for 30-06, 308, 30-30, and 303. I know we shouldn't use other people's data and today was the first time I saw his page. I'll check my other manual but figured I'd ask if anyone has used Steve's data. I can always post a WTT and see if anyone has a more middle of the road burn rate powder. It's just for target shooting in a bolt gun although I do reload for my brothers M1 Garand so maybe I'll use my surplus powder for that.
"Someone"

Garands specifically require faster than normal powders than typical 30-06 loads to keep their gas port pressures down so you don't damage the action.
That's why most loading manuals have Garand-only data.
Garands should not be loaded with bullets much over 150gr.
That's what they were designed for.
There are adjustable gas plugs to allow you to bleed the excess pressure and then you can run heavier bullets.
Garands also should not be reloaded with powders slower than 4064 and 4895 unless you have an adjustable gas plug.

I would not use the 4831 in 30-30 or 303 either as those are smaller cases running at lower pressures.
4831 wants to be at 55-65k psi to burn nice and clean.
4831 is a great powder in a bolt action 30-06, 270 or 25-06 or most long action magnums.
It's a little bulky for really good performance in most short action cases unless the case is pretty overbore.
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Old 01-21-2021, 3:40 PM
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Hah "someone" took me a second to realize

I'm not into garands but they are ok. I'm more of a bolt action person these days. I like my AR15 but it's almost too easy to hit at 200 yards so I'll stick to my 1903a3 and Enfield No4 mainly. My brother does shoot a garand but I have enough powder for it as stated earlier and my other calibers. Unless a year from now I only have 4831 left then I'll play with Stevespages loads but I'm sure after summer there should be some supply. Thanks for the heads up. One case that will shine will be the 6.5x55swede my brother has so for now just 30-06 and swede will get the powder. Thanks "someone" =)
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Old 01-21-2021, 4:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geofois View Post
Thank you Slamfire. I think you're talking about 3031 vs IMR4831 which is what I got a jug of. I think I'll be fine in my 30-06 with it since Lyman does have data all the way down to 110g bullets so for 168g and probably 150g should be ok. Currently using a faster powder that takes only 45g to achieve an ok velocity but I do see flattened primers and a wide spread of velocities probably due to lots of empty case space. When I get to the range either this weekend or next I'll report back here. I agree we don't need max velocity to get great accuracy and from articles I've read in other calibers it seems like the accurate load is always less than max.
I have tried IMR 4831 in the 6.5 X 55 and in the 270 Win. Worked very well. I don't see a reason why it would not work well with heavy bullets, that is 190's and above, in the 30-06.

I tried IMR 4350 in a 30-30 case, and that was a failure. Velocities with a full case were too slow for any application. Since IMR 4831 is even slower, I don't see any future. The 308 Win is too small for practical velocities with 4831, and I would say, the pressures a 303 Brit operates at, IMR 4831 will not be a good choice.
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Old 01-31-2021, 8:57 PM
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It looks like the IMR4831 is hotter/faster than what the published data says. I was blowing primers on 56g which is the starting load for a 168g bullet in the Speer manual saying it would do 2398fps. Max is 60g at 2664fps. At 56g I got 2719fps. My Lyman manual has range of 54.5g 2544fps to 60.6g 2847fps. I found an a pdf of an old Lee manual that is probably more correct 52.8g 2607fps to 56g 2760fps. I've read lots of powder can vary but damn, blowing primers on the starting load of one manual. I'm actually pleasantly surprised since it would seem like it would do fine with 150g bullets if it's faster than what it normal should be.
On a side note H450 worked great. Did 56g avg 2605fps, 57g 2652fps, 58g 2736fps. It also seemed faster than the published data that I found from an old Hodgdon manual. 57g was one ragged hole but just at 50 yards. I only did 5 rounds of each load but the ES of 57 was 24fps so not too bad.

Last edited by Geofois; 01-31-2021 at 9:51 PM..
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