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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #41  
Old 08-16-2021, 5:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 200Apples View Post
I like to add a ghost ring sights setup to my lever guns. I don't have all 8 levers so equipped, but at over $100 each for the sights system it's going to take me a little more time.
Chris, what ghost ring setup are you referring too. I have a couple on my 92s and they don't cost any where near $100.00..
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  #42  
Old 08-16-2021, 5:46 PM
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Personally I would just keep it on y truck window rack for 30 years and shoot the heck out of it. After that it would have a perfect patina
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  #43  
Old 08-16-2021, 6:14 PM
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Thanks Trapp, I think your right. I didn't include the lever or the side gate, didn't think about the hammer. So far just the receiver, forend cap and butt plate will get CCH.
And I didn't include the buttplate and cap. This is fun, almost like democrat spending other peoples money! I want to see this one when it's finished!
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  #44  
Old 08-16-2021, 7:00 PM
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Chris, what ghost ring setup are you referring too. I have a couple on my 92s and they don't cost any where near $100.00..

The XS Sights Systems' ghost ring. They're the ones Marlin chose for sights on the late SBL/CSBL/CST. A neat feature is the white line, square front sight post and then the compactness of the ghost ring.
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  #45  
Old 08-20-2021, 6:53 AM
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Yes, which is the reason for me getting the Rossi after I got the Freedom Arms. I considered it an excellent short-medium range deer hunting combo. I fired maybe 10-20 full house 454 rounds through the Rossi then the sights flew off. First the rear, then the front came off in my hand. The dovetails were not machined deep enough to secure the sights. I've dinked around a bit to try to fix it (shimming, etc.) but it needs the attention of a competent gunsmith (like Steve's Gunz who is the "Rossi 92 Specialist").

Then I quit deer hunting. Still want to get the 92 squared away. I got rid of the stupid safety on top and put a metal magazine follower (and maybe a couple of other recommended refinements). Once I get the sights done (I have a sight definition that will require gunsmithing since I don't know if they exist actually) I want to refinish the "orange" stock into more of a walnut color. I have read of a method to do that.

I'll try uploading a photo. I have since added a Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley in 454 to the realm.

Dan
Basic question regarding your FA (model 83): when you carry it holstered in the field, are you moving the hammer to the manual safety position, or loading with only four rounds, with the hammer over an empty chamber, ala Colt SAA?……I know what the manual says (at least the recent version), but am curious as to how other folks go about this.
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  #46  
Old 08-20-2021, 7:04 AM
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Originally Posted by splithoof View Post
Basic question regarding your FA (model 83): when you carry it holstered in the field, are you moving the hammer to the manual safety position, or loading with only four rounds, with the hammer over an empty chamber, ala Colt SAA?……I know what the manual says (at least the recent version), but am curious as to how other folks go about this.
Good question. As you say, FA recommends carry with hammer down on an empty chamber (they even say that in the manual for their Model 97 which has a transfer bar mechanism). I think they are being overly cautious for legal reasons, not practical ones.

I have not carried my Model 83 loaded in the field but would have no problem loading all five chambers. The first click safety is very robust with a solid hammer block. I understand this design was a result of a lawsuit where there was an ND due to a failure of the original mechanism but I have no details on this event.

Ruger was hit with one similar when a Super Blackhawk owner dropped his loaded revolver and it fell on the hammer and discharged killing him. This was in the early 70s before the transfer bar was designed into all Ruger single actions.

The Freedom Arms single actions truly have no equals, they are incredible (but you probably already know that).

Dan
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  #47  
Old 08-20-2021, 7:37 AM
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Good question. As you say, FA recommends carry with hammer down on an empty chamber (they even say that in the manual for their Model 97 which has a transfer bar mechanism). I think they are being overly cautious for legal reasons, not practical ones.

I have not carried my Model 83 loaded in the field but would have no problem loading all five chambers. The first click safety is very robust with a solid hammer block. I understand this design was a result of a lawsuit where there was an ND due to a failure of the original mechanism but I have no details on this event.

Ruger was hit with one similar when a Super Blackhawk owner dropped his loaded revolver and it fell on the hammer and discharged killing him. This was in the early 70s before the transfer bar was designed into all Ruger single actions.

The Freedom Arms single actions truly have no equals, they are incredible (but you probably already know that).

Dan
Thank you for the reply.
Yes, I know first hand of the quality (shot about five of six different examples) and have been asking several owners. Late last year (or earlier this year) my original plan was to order one, but a bunch of life things got in the way and it got stalled, until yesterday….now it’s a bit of a wait (four-five months), so that gives me plenty of time to gather up necessary accessories and components. Brass for the .454 will be the major priority, as I have more than enough .45ACP for that extra cylinder I ordered.
As to the lawsuit, from what I’ve found on the web, some doofus lost a leg due to poor gun handling, and blamed FA for a defective design, but didn’t win. It appears as though FA made a blanket statement regarding method of carry as a form of CYA. Others whom I respect carry with five rounds, in the safety position as well.
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  #48  
Old 08-20-2021, 8:44 AM
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Thank you for the reply.
Yes, I know first hand of the quality (shot about five of six different examples) and have been asking several owners. Late last year (or earlier this year) my original plan was to order one, but a bunch of life things got in the way and it got stalled, until yesterday….now it’s a bit of a wait (four-five months), so that gives me plenty of time to gather up necessary accessories and components. Brass for the .454 will be the major priority, as I have more than enough .45ACP for that extra cylinder I ordered.
As to the lawsuit, from what I’ve found on the web, some doofus lost a leg due to poor gun handling, and blamed FA for a defective design, but didn’t win. It appears as though FA made a blanket statement regarding method of carry as a form of CYA. Others whom I respect carry with five rounds, in the safety position as well.
I got lucky. When I ordered mine in March of 2011, I was told there was a 9 week lead time since they typically build to order. When the order was placed, it turned out they had one in stock exactly to my specifications, all they needed to do was fit a .45 Colt cylinder (which took a week or so).

Dan
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  #49  
Old 09-04-2021, 1:10 PM
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I heard from Turnbull today. This is what the work order says..


#3 SAFETY92CC
Winchester 1892 Safety Conversion> Remove tang safety.
Convert hammer and firing pin to traditional half-notch
safety system. Drill & tap for tang sight. Modified receiver &
hammer to be Case Hardened with lever, rifle forend cap &
crescent buttplate. All blued parts will remain factory blued
finish

#4 CC
Color Case Harden 1892 receiver, lever, hammer, forend
cap & crescent buttplate.

I think I'll call them next week and get a price on some simple checkering of the buttstock and forend. I'm stuck on this. I'm probably over thinking it too. If you guys have a picture of some checkering that's simple and clean I'd much appreciate a picture.

These are pretty simple and functional. I believe these are lasered.


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Last edited by golfish; 09-04-2021 at 4:36 PM..
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  #50  
Old 09-04-2021, 1:19 PM
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Originally Posted by 200Apples View Post
Our esteemed colleague SplitHo0f is a rifleman of the first order. Anything he might do to one of his long guns is eminently practical tactical...
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https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1884858
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  #51  
Old 09-04-2021, 1:30 PM
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Yes! ...but never tacti-cool.
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  #52  
Old 09-06-2021, 7:19 AM
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Yes! ...but never tacti-cool.
Haha, thanks Apples.
To me, “tacti-cool” is watching my kid swap out and quench machine gun barrels to keep them from burning up.
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  #53  
Old 09-06-2021, 7:29 AM
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Originally Posted by golfish View Post
I heard from Turnbull today. This is what the work order says..


#3 SAFETY92CC
Winchester 1892 Safety Conversion> Remove tang safety.
Convert hammer and firing pin to traditional half-notch
safety system. Drill & tap for tang sight. Modified receiver &
hammer to be Case Hardened with lever, rifle forend cap &
crescent buttplate. All blued parts will remain factory blued
finish

#4 CC
Color Case Harden 1892 receiver, lever, hammer, forend
cap & crescent buttplate.

I think I'll call them next week and get a price on some simple checkering of the buttstock and forend. I'm stuck on this. I'm probably over thinking it too. If you guys have a picture of some checkering that's simple and clean I'd much appreciate a picture.
There is a special joy to owning a nice firearm that has been properly worked over by a highly respected, talented, and skilled craftsman. I’m sure it will be excellent, and well worth the wait. I’ve seen in person some of his work (1866 Winchester, and a few others), and it was gorgeous.
Now I’m patiently waiting until early next year while FA builds my revolver.
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  #54  
Old 09-06-2021, 10:35 AM
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That Winchester is one sweet rifle
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  #55  
Old 09-07-2021, 2:03 PM
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I've shot golfish[Mark's] Miruko. It's damn nice looking as is/was. Can't wait till he gets it back. That is gonna be a beautiful levergun. And if he picks up that Std. Manuf'ing .45 Colt revolver; he'll be impossible to deal with!

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  #56  
Old 09-07-2021, 6:34 PM
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That is gonna be a beautiful levergun. And if he picks up that Std. Manuf'ing .45 Colt revolver; he'll be impossible to deal with!

Hahaha! That may be, but, either way, I'm lookin' forward to sub-80 degree temps! so's we can lever ourselves to our hearts' content.

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  #57  
Old 09-07-2021, 7:57 PM
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Originally Posted by golfish View Post
I heard from Turnbull today. This is what the work order says..


#3 SAFETY92CC
Winchester 1892 Safety Conversion> Remove tang safety.
Convert hammer and firing pin to traditional half-notch
safety system. Drill & tap for tang sight. Modified receiver &
hammer to be Case Hardened with lever, rifle forend cap &
crescent buttplate.
Hey fellas, I'd really like to put on a tang sight on this gun. Because of the tang safety I don't think it was drilled for it.

Does anyone know what tang sight will work for this one ?

How's this one look?
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1005865953


I hear ya Tom...we nees to get out to the Mojave
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  #58  
Old 09-07-2021, 8:33 PM
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Hey fellas, is the wood on this gun walnut with some redish stain on it?

I've noticed that most of the guns Turnbull does wood refinishing on have a redish color to them. I've even noticed that the replicas that some of the Italian companies make have the same color.

I like the real brown walnut that came on this gun. It's a lot like the walnut used on the Marlin 1894s that were made in the final years. The pictures of my Henry Long Ranger that I posted above has a little darker flavored walnut.

Guys, I apologies for all of the silly questions. This could be my only shot at getting a nice gun done by Turnbull. I wish I could have done an older 92.

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  #59  
Old 09-07-2021, 9:00 PM
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Now I’m patiently waiting until early next year while FA builds my revolver.
Will you have a lever gun to match?
I'm looking forward at seeing these. The couple that Dan has posted are awesome...

Hurts my my forehead just looking at em
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Old 09-07-2021, 9:30 PM
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Will you have a lever gun to match?
I'm looking forward at seeing these. The couple that Dan has posted are awesome...

Hurts my my forehead just looking at em
IF…..I wish to have a .454C lever-action, not sure what route to take on that. Does/did Miroku make such a carbine on a 1892 action? Not interested in any of the Rossi, or any other foreign made copies, unless they could be done up the way I want, and built to suit. I’ve a number of those in other calibers, and although I don’t post too many pictures, I have as well a decent sampling of original levers by Winchester, Marlin, Savage, etc. None are in .454C, however.

At one time I was seriously considering a WWG Co-Pilot, however I learned of some issues about those from a good source, and lost interest.

The Turnbull examples I’ve examined were simply outstanding; I think you will be very pleased with the end result. And it will be a good shooter as well.
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Old 09-07-2021, 10:25 PM
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IF…..I wish to have a .454C lever-action, not sure what route to take on that. Does/did Miroku make such a carbine on a 1892 action? Not interested in any of the Rossi, or any other foreign made copies, unless they could be done up the way I want, and built to suit.
I've read good things about the Rossi in that caliber. I like that it can be loaded from the tube or the loading gate. Although I did read that some had problems loading 454 through the gate. I'm really not sure on this.

I don't recall reading anything from guys that have put a few hundred rounds through em. We know the action can handle it. I'd like to get one and put 300 rds through it...

Well, I mean I'd like to get one and have my son shoot 300 rds over a week or two
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  #62  
Old 09-08-2021, 5:42 AM
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Holy Moly, these posts are getting interesting. You fellas are putting together some mighty fine hardware. That is great! Can't wait to see these.

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Old 09-08-2021, 7:07 AM
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I've read good things about the Rossi in that caliber. I like that it can be loaded from the tube or the loading gate. Although I did read that some had problems loading 454 through the gate. I'm really not sure on this.

I don't recall reading anything from guys that have put a few hundred rounds through em. We know the action can handle it. I'd like to get one and put 300 rds through it...

Well, I mean I'd like to get one and have my son shoot 300 rds over a week or two
I see that the Rossi IS available (at least on their web page) in stainless steel, so that could be a start; I’d much prefer a shorter barrel, 16” or close. The magazine tube loading port might be an issue with that, but I’d have to measure carefully to see how that would work out with the shortened barrel. There is some room for compromise, however. Lastly, a synthetic stock, with a better set of sights, or forward rail. While it’s apart, a simple bead-blast finish, and call it good.
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Old 09-08-2021, 7:18 AM
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Hey fellas, is the wood on this gun walnut with some redish stain on it?

I've noticed that most of the guns Turnbull does wood refinishing on have a redish color to them. I've even noticed that the replicas that some of the Italian companies make have the same color.

Just imagine for a moment, seeing that beautiful rifle on a nice peg rack on the wall of a fancy mountain cabin next to a lake…..on the wall with all the mounted sets of antlers, heads, skins, etc. Add a nice Colt SAA next to it in a custom leather holster, and you’re all set. Of course there would be more, but you get the thought…
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Old 09-08-2021, 7:39 AM
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I've read good things about the Rossi in that caliber. I like that it can be loaded from the tube or the loading gate. Although I did read that some had problems loading 454 through the gate. I'm really not sure on this.
I do have to say that my Rossi 92 in 454 Casull is not very high quality. Wood to metal fit is rather crude and other parts (barrel band for instance) are a bit rough. And, as I mentioned, the sight installation is terrible. The action seems solid and the feeding and loading are fine. The rifle could use a good going over to refine many small details. The cushioned butt pad is necessary, this thing packs a pretty solid wallop. I do really like the option to tube or side gate load. The tube is excellent for unloading, much safer than shucking every cartridge through the action and picking them all up. This is one thing I really dislike about my Marlin 336 (and 1936 for that matter) and the 1894.

I just need to contact Steve's Gunz with my wish list and see what they have to say. I tried a ghost ring sight and I'm not sure about that one. I have fiber optic sights on several of my revolvers and really like them, may consider those for the 92. I would need to have a vented hood over the front sight (even if it has to be custom made). I have hoods over the front sights of all of my lever actions (protects them when I lean the rifle in the corner).

I don't have any excuses, just lazy I suppose. I need to get this done before the end of the year if I can since I will be retiring then (and will be much poorer).

Dan
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Old 09-08-2021, 7:44 AM
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bergmen, you may be much poorer, but, you will be better off. Believe me.

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Old 09-08-2021, 7:52 AM
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bergmen, you may be much poorer, but, you will be better off. Believe me.

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Oh, I think so. I have no problem leading a very simple life style. I don't want to derail this fine thread but I have enough reloading supplies for decades so I'm good there (as well as fine beers and gin).

Back on topic. I checked out the ghost ring aperture sight that XS Sights offers for the 92. Have not seen that system before, looks very interesting, I would like to know more (the rear may mount back on the rear of the receiver).

https://xssights.com/products/sights...-sights/rossi/

(edit- I see on their website that they are going to discontinue this sight for the 92 - darn).

Dan

Last edited by bergmen; 09-08-2021 at 7:57 AM..
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Old 09-08-2021, 8:12 AM
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I checked out the ghost ring aperture sight that XS Sights offers for the 92. Have not seen that system before, looks very interesting, I would like to know more (the rear may mount back on the rear of the receiver).

https://xssights.com/products/sights...-sights/rossi/

(edit- I see on their website that they are going to discontinue this sight for the 92 - darn).

Dan
I use XS products on other firearms, and have had excellent results. That particular front sight I have on a few rifles, and really like it. On my R77/44, it is so much better than the factory small, shiny brass bead that is difficult to pick up in most uses.
If you can get the set before they are all gone, I’d do that today.

As to the quality issues you mention about the Rossi 92, that is exactly what I would rather not deal with, and would gladly pay much more for something that exhibits quality and craftsmanship from the start. I suppose one could look at it from the standpoint that you are basically purchasing an “unfinished kit”, wherein the parts are “pre-assembled” to keep packaging simple. Once the buyer takes possession, it’s off to the customization process, to finally, with added expense, arrive at what it should/could have been from the start. That’s OK, I get it that most folks don’t want to $pend that much on a rifle, so the manufacture’s have to settle on a level of quality that still sells, but basically works for the most part.
It is what it is……
Wish Miroku would produce a quality version.
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Old 09-08-2021, 10:27 AM
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As to the quality issues you mention about the Rossi 92, that is exactly what I would rather not deal with, and would gladly pay much more for something that exhibits quality and craftsmanship from the start. I suppose one could look at it from the standpoint that you are basically purchasing an “unfinished kit”, wherein the parts are “pre-assembled” to keep packaging simple. Once the buyer takes possession, it’s off to the customization process, to finally, with added expense, arrive at what it should/could have been from the start. That’s OK, I get it that most folks don’t want to $pend that much on a rifle, so the manufacture’s have to settle on a level of quality that still sells, but basically works for the most part.
It is what it is……
Wish Miroku would produce a quality version.
I do too. When I purchased and received the rifle I didn't know that Rossi was owned by Taurus. I was disappointed to learn this and this explains the crudeness of the manufacturing. Long ago I purged all Taurus firearms from this household with the intention of never acquiring another one (quality, reliability issues ad-nauseum).

Fortunately, the action, barrel and function are satisfactory. This was intended to be a field gun so fine cosmetic qualities were not that important to me (they certainly are on other rifles and handguns I own, having spent several $k on my Marlin 39A and Springfield M1A to spiffy them up).

This was the only 454 Casull lever action rifle available at a decent price range (I paid $650.00 NIB). Others available (can't remember the name right now) are in the $3,500 class which is way out of my price range.

I'll spend some time and money on this one, make it a project and hope for the best.

Dan

(edit - Big Horn Armory is the company I was trying to remember. $600 non-refundable deposit required - about what I paid for the Rossi. $3,049 base price, too rich for my blood.)

Last edited by bergmen; 09-08-2021 at 10:45 AM..
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Old 09-08-2021, 11:59 AM
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I heard back from Joon at Turnbull this morning about the checkering. They would do it for another $900.00.

The checkering on the straight grip will look like the picture I posted above.
I need to think about it. I guess for hand checkering the price isn't too bad.

I've got to think about this.


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Old 09-08-2021, 7:17 PM
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To me, $900 seems like a lot for checkering, although I have no real comparison to what other craftsmen would bill for such, or what is entailed, time, etc. I believe that coming from his shop, it will be the best that could be done, so there is that. My choices in weapon enhancement tend to be geared to practical needs first, cosmetic likes second. If it’s a BBQ rifle, I’d say make the investment. If it’s a daily hunting/ranch rifle, I’d likely not.
Tough choice, isn’t it?
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Old 09-08-2021, 7:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splithoof View Post
To me, $900 seems like a lot for checkering, although I have no real comparison to what other craftsmen would bill for such, or what is entailed, time, etc. I believe that coming from his shop, it will be the best that could be done, so there is that. My choices in weapon enhancement tend to be geared to practical needs first, cosmetic likes second. If it’s a BBQ rifle, I’d say make the investment. If it’s a daily hunting/ranch rifle, I’d likely not.
Tough choice, isn’t it?
This hand checkering cost me $1,200 which was way more than I expected to spend. Expertly done but still...



Dan

Last edited by bergmen; 12-03-2021 at 7:44 AM..
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Old 09-08-2021, 7:45 PM
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^^^^^It's not very often that I see checkering on a M-14/M-1A. It looks nice.
My M-1A pattern rifles are total scratch magnets, but when I was using them often, all those were earned.
With that forward rail, it reminds me of my SA Scout Squad; which make/model is yours?
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Old 09-09-2021, 7:01 AM
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^^^^^It's not very often that I see checkering on a M-14/M-1A. It looks nice.
My M-1A pattern rifles are total scratch magnets, but when I was using them often, all those were earned.
With that forward rail, it reminds me of my SA Scout Squad; which make/model is yours?
It's a Springfield Walnut Scout Squad I bought new about 12 years ago. I made the mistake of showing this to my gunsmith who overhauled my 39A and did a spectacular job on it. He looked at the quality of the wood and went a little crazy, spent many hours hand rubbing it (his specialty) and hand checkered it.

In retrospect I'm not too sure it was such a good idea. This rifle was intended to be a rough-n-ready fun/truck gun. I wasn't going to beat it up or abuse it but I wasn't going to baby it either. Now, I have to be real careful how I handle it, I don't want to damage the fine workmanship. It is beautiful to look at but seems less practical.

Dan
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Old 09-09-2021, 7:16 AM
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My preference in lever actions is smooth straight stocks but that will soon change. I have two Henrys in jail that have straight stocks but have checkering. They are the color case hardened steel frame side gate rifle and carbine in .357 magnum.
I'm okay with that because I guess you can't have all of your lever actions and all of your 1873 style single action revolvers looking the same. You have to eventually have some variety.
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Old 09-09-2021, 7:18 AM
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It's a Springfield Walnut Scout Squad I bought new about 12 years ago. I made the mistake of showing this to my gunsmith who overhauled my 39A and did a spectacular job on it. He looked at the quality of the wood and went a little crazy, spent many hours hand rubbing it (his specialty) and hand checkered it.

In retrospect I'm not too sure it was such a good idea. This rifle was intended to be a rough-n-ready fun/truck gun. I wasn't going to beat it up or abuse it but I wasn't going to baby it either. Now, I have to be real careful how I handle it, I don't want to damage the fine workmanship. It is beautiful to look at but seems less practical.

Dan
You could always find a surplus stock for it……..
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Old 09-09-2021, 7:46 AM
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You could always find a surplus stock for it……..
Well, the rifle has just assumed a new role. I don't want to take this fine stock off and put it in the corner and waste $1200. I could get a second M1A for a beater...

Dan
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Old 09-11-2021, 7:25 AM
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Hey fellas, is the wood on this gun walnut with some redish stain on it?

I've noticed that most of the guns Turnbull does wood refinishing on have a redish color to them. I've even noticed that the replicas that some of the Italian companies make have the same color.

I like the real brown walnut that came on this gun. It's a lot like the walnut used on the Marlin 1894s that were made in the final years. The pictures of my Henry Long Ranger that I posted above has a little darker flavored walnut.

Guys, I apologies for all of the silly questions. This could be my only shot at getting a nice gun done by Turnbull. I wish I could have done an older 92.

I guess a lot of the original Winchesters in the day were pretty red. I know that there are several stock stains (from Brownells) that are called Winchester Red and Pre 64. I use to have a bottle of Winchester Red and used it on some knife handles. I've got boxes of stock cut offs from Butch Searcy at All American Double Rifles to use for knife handles and some of it naturally has some red to it. I was along for the ride when my friend JP interviewed Butch for this article and thats when I traded Butch for his stock cutoffs.:

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/372198/

ItThat article shows a few pics of what Butch does with the wood. His rifles don't seem to get as red though as those Winchesters. I have to admit even though I know that our Ubertti 73 stock is stained, I still find it very attractive. Some of Butch's stock cut offs. Nothing on these guys but clear Danish oil:





Ya can see that natural red in the walnut coming through. Me I'd just turn em loose and slip the bridle there at Turnbulls. Although not so sure on the checkering. Do ya need it on a pistol caliber rifle and it might get in the way of some purty wood.
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Old 02-24-2022, 11:27 AM
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Well, Turnbull said it was a 6 month turnaround and they were right on. I should get the gun next week.
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Old 02-24-2022, 4:14 PM
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