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  #1  
Old 06-07-2021, 1:25 PM
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Default DoJ Inspection coming up. What should I expect?

Home based FFL here. Have my first DoJ Inspection coming up (about 18 months since I got my FFL) and wanted to know other FFLs experiences and what to expect during the inspection.

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 06-07-2021, 1:38 PM
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Clean underwear?

Sorry,
Couldnít resist.
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  #3  
Old 06-07-2021, 1:42 PM
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Originally Posted by tsmithson View Post
Clean underwear?

Sorry,
Couldnít resist.
Perfect. I just did a load of laundry 😂
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Old 06-07-2021, 1:57 PM
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Clean underwear?

Sorry,
Couldnít resist.
Negative. A big stench and flies buzzing around will get those DOJ types moving on quickly?

.
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  #5  
Old 06-07-2021, 1:58 PM
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dibs on your CA compliant guns
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  #6  
Old 06-07-2021, 2:47 PM
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I did my first one about a year ago (home based FFL also). They told me to have a years worth of paperwork (4473's also) available along with my A&D book. They gave me about 3 weeks notice so that wasn't an issue. Made sure all my signage was current and displayed and just sat at the table with her while she compared her list of my inbound firearms with the paperwork I had and my book. It was about as low-key process as it could be. I asked her some broad questions while she did her thing...mostly stuff like "so when people are getting in trouble, what are the common issues" and it revolved mainly around missing inventory. I don't stock anything so that wasn't an issue on my end, but apparently it's a thing. They told me to assume it would be about a 4 hour deal, it was just over an hour.
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  #7  
Old 06-07-2021, 3:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t-1 View Post
I did my first one about a year ago (home based FFL also). They told me to have a years worth of paperwork (4473's also) available along with my A&D book. They gave me about 3 weeks notice so that wasn't an issue. Made sure all my signage was current and displayed and just sat at the table with her while she compared her list of my inbound firearms with the paperwork I had and my book. It was about as low-key process as it could be. I asked her some broad questions while she did her thing...mostly stuff like "so when people are getting in trouble, what are the common issues" and it revolved mainly around missing inventory. I don't stock anything so that wasn't an issue on my end, but apparently it's a thing. They told me to assume it would be about a 4 hour deal, it was just over an hour.
Good information, thank you. Just to clarify, was this CA DoJ or ATF?

And she only gave me about 5 days notice
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Last edited by NorCalFirearmSupply; 06-07-2021 at 3:41 PM..
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  #8  
Old 06-07-2021, 4:55 PM
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Soap on a rope?
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  #9  
Old 06-07-2021, 9:05 PM
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So one real answer? Thanks guys
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Old 06-07-2021, 9:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalFirearmSupply View Post
So one real answer? Thanks guys
Free bump for being forced to LOL several times at your threads posts.

Good luck with the appointment.
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  #11  
Old 06-07-2021, 9:44 PM
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Originally Posted by tsmithson View Post
Free bump for being forced to LOL several times at your threads posts.

Good luck with the appointment.
Tnx. Was hoping for more helpful answers but I'll take it.
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  #12  
Old 06-08-2021, 6:30 AM
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Typically check

Signage to check if current.
Suicide warning sign and guns tagged
All 4473 and Dros since last look.
Will look for assault weapons in inventory.
Proof of residency copies.
Inventory versus book.
COE current all employees
Ammo sales paperwork
Inbound guns from out of state paperwork.


Probably missed something. Kevin
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  #13  
Old 06-08-2021, 9:29 AM
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4473's are property of ATF. You don't have to show them 4473's

Now, i wouldn't say that in a cocky way but legally if they insist on seeing them i would advise them that you are not giving them consent to do anything with them. If they insist, i wouldn't get in their way but i wouldn't help them. Just make it clear you are not consenting to them. Its not a huge deal but in some ways you could be liable for privacy issues if you give consent.
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  #14  
Old 06-08-2021, 3:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcangelwis View Post
Typically check

Signage to check if current.
Suicide warning sign and guns tagged
All 4473 and Dros since last look.
Will look for assault weapons in inventory.
Proof of residency copies.
Inventory versus book.
COE current all employees
Ammo sales paperwork
Inbound guns from out of state paperwork.


Probably missed something. Kevin

This pretty much sums it up. They do want to check a/d book against disposition dates on dros occasionally but for most part they didnít go out of way to look for anything specific. They checked our Safes for sale along with locks.


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  #15  
Old 06-09-2021, 10:25 AM
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Separate lower/upper on ALL your AR15s and tear down AKs.....just do it to CYA. Saves you the sweat "is that stock collaspable?! Did I make sure that stock cant fold?" etc etc. Double and Triple check what your A&D Book says you have you have, put your hands on it. Check your DROS paperwork for signatures and thumbprints. They don't care about the 4473s, thats ATF. Again, make sure your AR and AK pattern rifles are taken apart, its just easier that way. Got all your Suicide tags? Guns locked up? No 80% laying around? Ammo locked up? Check the A&D books and DROS paperwork again. All the current DROSed "In Jail" guns have the paperwork with them front and center, make sure they are compliant. Everyone has valid COE? Ammo paperwork in order? If you have high cap mag permit have that paperwork in order too.
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  #16  
Old 06-10-2021, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcangelwis View Post
Typically check

Signage to check if current.
Suicide warning sign and guns tagged
All 4473 and Dros since last look.
Will look for assault weapons in inventory.
Proof of residency copies.
Inventory versus book.
COE current all employees
Ammo sales paperwork
Inbound guns from out of state paperwork.
Copies of FSC (I had a corrective action because I didn't keep a signed copy of a FCS I issued)
Copies of Safe Handling
Copies of Gun Safe affidavit (corrective action for not initialing the box in the middle of the form)

I assume they also may want to see any acquisition records for used firearms you've purchased for your business. I cant remember if they check the DOJ pre-authorization form/number. I also can't remember if they wanted to see copies of licenses for FFLs who I shipped guns to but I do retain those records.

I have not had an inspection since the new ammo laws went it place or since I acquired a HiCap mag license but I'm sure there are records of those transactions they will want to see if applicable.

All in all, I thought my rep was very fair and helpful. A nearly painless experience.
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  #17  
Old 06-10-2021, 12:11 PM
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OK...now I have questions:
What's a "Suicide tag"? Are you referring to the "WARNING" tag?
What "signed copy of FSC"? There no place for a signature on the dealer copy of the FCS.
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  #18  
Old 06-10-2021, 1:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
OK...now I have questions:
What's a "Suicide tag"? Are you referring to the "WARNING" tag?
What "signed copy of FSC"? There no place for a signature on the dealer copy of the FCS.
You are correct. The dealer signs the customer's copy of the FSC when issued. In this cases I printed two copies, sighed the customer's copy and filed the second copy (which wasn't signed by me or the customer) with the DROS. My bad, I think it was the first FSC I'd issued. I was just pointing out how closely they checked some stuff.
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  #19  
Old 06-10-2021, 1:34 PM
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OK..Had me worried for a minute
Any idea what a "suicide tag" is?
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  #20  
Old 06-10-2021, 1:51 PM
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Default AB-645

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...201920200AB645

This bill would require, as of June 1, 2020, a specified statement regarding suicide prevention to be included on the firearm warning label, and to be posted on the premises of each licensed firearm dealer.
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  #21  
Old 06-10-2021, 2:43 PM
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OK. Missed that one. Anyone know where/how to acquire these tags?
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  #22  
Old 06-10-2021, 4:07 PM
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You have to print/buy your own now. I have an excel file somewhere that allows you to print a sheet of them English on one side and Spanish on the other. You need a color printer though as I understand the yellow highlighting is mandatory. Assuming I can find the file it I'd be happy to send to you if you PM me your email.

Full disclosure - I didn't create the file, it was the work of another Calgunner who posted it on this subforum some time back. I'd give them credit if I could remember who they were.
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  #23  
Old 06-10-2021, 8:04 PM
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If Nardo cant find it PM me and I will send you the one I made.
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  #24  
Old 06-11-2021, 5:43 AM
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I have them available in 500 packs for $27.50 prepaid priority mail shipping. 5.5 cents each. Printer cartridges can get expensive. Kevin

https://rkffl.com/products/californi...7-355ad93e8121
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  #25  
Old 06-11-2021, 7:19 AM
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Originally Posted by HPT View Post
If Nardo cant find it PM me and I will send you the one I made.
I defer to HPT. I think he was the original author of my copy.
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  #26  
Old 06-11-2021, 7:25 AM
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One more thing I remembered from my first inspection. They wanted to see any cancelled or denied DROS forms and paperwork.
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  #27  
Old 06-11-2021, 7:53 AM
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Here is an Excel version that will duplex print both sides for those who want it.

Gun Warning Labels as of 6-1-2020.xlsx
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  #28  
Old 06-11-2021, 8:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPT View Post
Here is an Excel version that will duplex print both sides for those who want it.

Attachment 1021279
Got it...thanks
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So, now it is ironic that the State whittles away at the right of its citizens to defend themselves from the possible oppression of their State.
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  #29  
Old 06-11-2021, 9:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nardo1895 View Post
You are correct. The dealer signs the customer's copy of the FSC when issued. In this cases I printed two copies, sighed the customer's copy and filed the second copy (which wasn't signed by me or the customer) with the DROS. My bad, I think it was the first FSC I'd issued. I was just pointing out how closely they checked some stuff.

I thought when you issue an FSC you cut the paper in 2, top gets stapled to the test and filed while the bottom goes to the customer with two signatures.

When customer buys a firearm, a copy of the customerís FSC gets stapled to the DROS along with the 2 affidavits - handling and safe.
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  #30  
Old 06-11-2021, 9:09 AM
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How did it go?
I think this is the first mention of an inspection ive heard of since COVID. Im sure they are happening just the first I heard.
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  #31  
Old 06-11-2021, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
OK. Missed that one. Anyone know where/how to acquire these tags?

RKFFL.com makes the tags 100/$7.50


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  #32  
Old 06-11-2021, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronlglock View Post
I thought when you issue an FSC you cut the paper in 2, top gets stapled to the test and filed while the bottom goes to the customer with two signatures.

When customer buys a firearm, a copy of the customerís FSC gets stapled to the DROS along with the 2 affidavits - handling and safe.

Safe affidavit only works with longguns.


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  #33  
Old 06-11-2021, 5:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxWoodsHunterxX View Post
Safe affidavit only works with longguns.


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"Are you Serious Clark?" Please show me where this is stated in the Reg.'s/law, Im not being a A-hole I guess I've been doing it wrong.

A perfect example is any of the CZ handguns, the lock meets the Fed requirement but not the State. In this case I offer a Safe affidavit OR a CA approved lock.
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Old 06-11-2021, 7:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medicdubs96 View Post
"Are you Serious Clark?" Please show me where this is stated in the Reg.'s/law, Im not being a A-hole I guess I've been doing it wrong.

A perfect example is any of the CZ handguns, the lock meets the Fed requirement but not the State. In this case I offer a Safe affidavit OR a CA approved lock.
The actual CA law makes it illegal to deliver the gun with a lock or device not on the lock roster. Federal law says a locking device must be present to pick up the handgun. You now get to read between the lines.
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Old 06-12-2021, 6:16 AM
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Default DoJ Inspection coming up. What should I expect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by medicdubs96 View Post
"Are you Serious Clark?" Please show me where this is stated in the Reg.'s/law, Im not being a A-hole I guess I've been doing it wrong.

A perfect example is any of the CZ handguns, the lock meets the Fed requirement but not the State. In this case I offer a Safe affidavit OR a CA approved lock.

Just saying you might want to read up or at least get confirmation from both your ATF and DOJ Auditors before you assume anything.

And secondly itís against the law to deliver any handgun without an approved lock. Private party or dealer sale.

Child Safety Lock Act of 2005 (CSLA). It was introduced as an amendment to the Gun Control Act and became effective on April 24, 2006. The law simply states that it is unlawful for ďany licensed importer, manufacturer, or dealer to sell, deliver, or transfer any handgun to any person, other than another licensee, unless the transferee (buyer) is provided with a secure gun storage or safety device for that handgun.Ē


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Old 06-12-2021, 3:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxWoodsHunterxX View Post
Just saying you might want to read up or at least get confirmation from both your ATF and DOJ Auditors before you assume anything.

And secondly itís against the law to deliver any handgun without an approved lock. Private party or dealer sale.

Child Safety Lock Act of 2005 (CSLA). It was introduced as an amendment to the Gun Control Act and became effective on April 24, 2006. The law simply states that it is unlawful for ďany licensed importer, manufacturer, or dealer to sell, deliver, or transfer any handgun to any person, other than another licensee, unless the transferee (buyer) is provided with a secure gun storage or safety device for that handgun.Ē


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So I just went over the the law, 11 CA ADC ß 4101. Concerning the safe affidavit, I can not find anything referring to the BOF 978 being for long guns only.

I don't disagree with what you posted above. I also don't just assume anything, I am aware of the differences between the State and Federal requirements. Which is why I referenced the CZ handguns.That is why I offer a Safe affidavit in lieu of buying another lock. I meet the Fed requirement with the Blue cable lock that is included and the State requirement with either a BOF978 or purchasing a CA approved lock.

Also the FAQ on the DOJ site is pretty clear. https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/fsdfaqs
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Old 06-12-2021, 6:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medicdubs96 View Post
So I just went over the the law, 11 CA ADC ß 4101. Concerning the safe affidavit, I can not find anything referring to the BOF 978 being for long guns only.

I don't disagree with what you posted above. I also don't just assume anything, I am aware of the differences between the State and Federal requirements. Which is why I referenced the CZ handguns.That is why I offer a Safe affidavit in lieu of buying another lock. I meet the Fed requirement with the Blue cable lock that is included and the State requirement with either a BOF978 or purchasing a CA approved lock.

Also the FAQ on the DOJ site is pretty clear. https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/fsdfaqs
Technically, a CA FFL isn’t even supposed to distribute a non certified lock with any gun transferred. That means that a non compliant gun lock should be removed from the box and replaced with a CA Certified Lock.

This is why people say that you can’t use the uncertified lock to satisfy the Feds and then use a safe affidavit.

Last edited by taperxz; 06-12-2021 at 6:37 PM..
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  #38  
Old 06-13-2021, 9:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
Technically, a CA FFL isnít even supposed to distribute a non certified lock with any gun transferred. That means that a non compliant gun lock should be removed from the box and replaced with a CA Certified Lock.

This is why people say that you canít use the uncertified lock to satisfy the Feds and then use a safe affidavit.
I'm aware of that also, my question for the state would be what right do I have to take something that was purchased by another person? Although all handguns are sold with a lock per Fed. law the locks aren't free, it is included in the purchase of the gun.
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  #39  
Old 06-13-2021, 10:35 AM
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Also make sure all your FSC/HSC's are in order, organized and filled out completely.
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  #40  
Old 06-13-2021, 10:41 AM
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ugimports ugimports is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Fremont, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medicdubs96 View Post
I'm aware of that also, my question for the state would be what right do I have to take something that was purchased by another person? Although all handguns are sold with a lock per Fed. law the locks aren't free, it is included in the purchase of the gun.
If you receive a pistol with hi-cap magazines for transfer to a non-exempt person what do you do?
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