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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: What are your feelings about Front Sight?
Great Training for Beginners Only. 87 8.48%
Great Training Beginner and Advanced. 683 66.57%
The Quality of Training is Going Down Hill. 24 2.34%
I paid too much for my Membership! 45 4.39%
They will go out of business this year! 25 2.44%
Don't want anything to do with them! 162 15.79%
Voters: 1026. You may not vote on this poll

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  #13001  
Old 06-06-2021, 8:06 PM
Kate Kate is offline
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Default Knights of FS Training week?

Does anyone have any clue what happens in the KoFS training in July? 4 days sure seems like a long time to sit, probably in the tent, in the summer. Does one bring their gun(s) to it? I have not seen an agenda or any actual explanation.

Does anyone know?

Katie
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  #13002  
Old 06-07-2021, 10:37 AM
Muzz Muzz is offline
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Ok. Here’s what I know about private training scheduling. This may have been posted before so apologies if it has. They schedule six months out. So on June 1st they opened up scheduling for December. If you call on the 1st of any month coming up, the month that’s six away is usually free and clear. That’s you best chance of getting what you want if you can plan 6 months out.

Now, on to Front Sight’s new Assault Weapon storage policy. There is no more policy. Apparently they can’t store weapons anymore? I was told it’s a Federal law? WTF? Yes, they’ve been nice enough to hold it for nearly 20 years for me but this doesn’t make any sense. It just so happens I was planning to get it out of storage this year anyway to build a featureless rifle for Kalifornia, however this seems like a “What other services can we cut back on” by FS. Why the hell can Ammo Supply Warehouse store weapons but FS cannot?
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  #13003  
Old 06-07-2021, 11:25 AM
Muzz Muzz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LRG View Post
I was going to ask about the Knights membership as well. Sounds like the private training scheduling can be a pain. Some questions:
  1. How far out can you schedule private training? I usually plan my trips a few months in advance.

    {You can schedule 6 months in advance, opening on the first of every month. On July 1st, you an call and start scheduling for January.}

  2. I think I heard that private training is like 6 AM to noon or something similar, is that correct?

    {I believe those hours are for July and August, cuz of the heat.}

  3. I believe you have to schedule the class from their normal list. Would the class format allow for and instructor have the latitude to do parts from other classes? Example, schedule a rifle class but brush up on handgun or shoot the handgun test?

    {They can accommodate some of that, generally though, one class format per day.}

  4. What length (days) are the private trainings?

    {1, 2, 3, 4, or maybe even a half day or possibly more. Generally a regular 2-day class can be covered in 1 day and a 4 day class can be covered in 2 days.}

  5. Any issue with doing a private training with just me in it? I'd assume it's ok but wanted to sanity check.

    {Yes. A lot of the private training memberships are single student. 1 President, for example. There were custom President memberships created and the number before President shows how many you could have in your private class. Somebody went up to 40President}

  6. What are people's thoughts that have taken the same classes in both public and private format? Pro's and Con's?

    {Negligible cons for me. No lectures, reduced teaching time, more shooting time.}

  7. Is there a list of classes offered in private format? I'd guess some like ATHG, Precision Rifle, etc. wouldn't work for that.

{Call them and ask. I think they just don't want you asking to do a ATHG with an Uzi.}

I'd be upgrading for the private training obviously, time is precious so I do see the value in being able to do more training in less time. However if it's hard to schedule them, or you can't schedule them too far out, or there are other things that are a pain, it may not be worth it.

Also, last I remember seeing the transferrable memberships with private training had become more valuable and expensive. I should have snagged one when they were $1000. Does that still hold true? $5K is a lot for private training and I likely won't use the +9 part of it but may be worth having in the future. Membership prices never get any cheaper so if I'm going to upgrade, no sense continuing to wait. Are there any other/better avenues for upgrading to private training I haven't thought of?

{That $5K for the Knight private training is the best you'll see. Up to 10 people. All the previous offers I can recall were $1K per person, Knight works out to $500 per person.}
I hope I got those all correct for you.
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  #13004  
Old 06-07-2021, 2:55 PM
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Vinnie Boombatz Vinnie Boombatz is offline
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Has anyone installed an LTT Trigger Job in a Bag on their M9A1/92FS and had their weapon successfully pass weapons inspection? I don't own a trigger pull gauge and am pretty sure my single action trigger on the M9A1 won't pass after installing the TTIAB with a 14# spring. Doesn't seem like going to a heavier hammer spring does much to the single action trigger pull.
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  #13005  
Old 06-07-2021, 9:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LRG View Post
I was going to ask about the Knights membership as well. Sounds like the private training scheduling can be a pain. Some questions:
  1. How far out can you schedule private training? I usually plan my trips a few months in advance.

    Six months out is as far you can book
  2. I think I heard that private training is like 6 AM to noon or something similar, is that correct?

    Private training usually follows the regular schedule (8am - 5pm), but there is some flexibility. Some accommodations can be made. Want to start at 6AM? I heard it's been done. Want to start at 9AM? Sure. Ask and they may be able to accommodate you.

    Want to break early for lunch? Go ahead. Want to leave early? Hey, it's your class, do what you want.

  3. I believe you have to schedule the class from their normal list. Would the class format allow for and instructor have the latitude to do parts from other classes? Example, schedule a rifle class but brush up on handgun or shoot the handgun test?

    You can schedule half days of one and half days of another. I doubt all combinations are possible. You can probably do half rifle/half pistol. The range master is most likely qualified for both. Privates offer flexibility.

    I've done half day empty hand/edged weapons.

  4. What length (days) are the private trainings?

    Four days in a row is the max.
  5. Any issue with doing a private training with just me in it? I'd assume it's ok but wanted to sanity check.

    No problem with one person. I've done it. Be ready to work because you'll be relays one and two.

    If you get a cool instructor, you'll have a great time as you'll get run through extra drills. If not, you'll get a guy that adheres strictly to the curriculum and you'll be done with it by lunch.

  6. What are people's thoughts that have taken the same classes in both public and private format? Pro's and Con's?

    Private classes are beneficial for the fact that's it's a time-saver. You show up and get to work. You're not sitting in the middle of 40 people getting lectures and waiting for everybody to get their questions in and then wait for them all to get their stuff together to run a drill. There's no waiting for the relay ahead of you to finish. Lectures and instruction are presented in a more casual format. I like not having to retreat back to the chairs, receive instructions and go back down range. We can do it down range and run the drill immediately. I hate waiting and wasting training time.

    Because you save so much time, you can shoot more. (I took Tac HG and HCMP in private last month. The RM told us management wanted to keep it to 200rds for Tac HG and 500rds for HCMP. We brought 1200 rds each and shot almost 1k rounds in two days.)

    Individual attention and personal diagnostics is a big pro.

    If you're safe and competent, the rules are relaxed a bit. In the regular classes, rules are adhered to strictly to account for the lowest common denominator. The instructors seem to be on guard on the lookout for f-ups.

    Individualized instruction. In the regular classes, you have to go with the flow of the class. Didn't get it? Try to keep up anyway. In private, you can go over techniques again to understand them and work to get better at them. It's your class and it's for you to learn.

    Tests in privates count. Want to DG a course? Work on it in private. You can test multiple times. (I need to DG shotgun and will work on that in private one day).

    No sitting in the classroom for the intro speech. 30 more minutes of training.

    A minor, but much appreciated pro: parking. You have your own range so you can park right up to it like the instructors do (at the ranges where it's available).

    Cons? I can't really think of any. Scheduling classes would be one for me. It's not that bad, but it's not as easy as looking at the mainl schedule to plan ahead. It takes some work.

  7. Is there a list of classes offered in private format? I'd guess some like ATHG, Precision Rifle, etc. wouldn't work for that.

    Most classes are available. The ones that are not (off the top of my head) are: ropes and rappelling, classroom-based courses, ATHG, night courses.

    Precision rifle is great in private. It's soooo much faster. Got your data? Good. Pack it up and move on. No need shoot (or wait) for another string or two. My buddy took his first PR class (precision rifle noob) in a one day private with me last month. He probably gathered 70% of the data (100-800yds except 50 yards increments) in one day of what is normally a four day course.


I'd be upgrading for the private training obviously, time is precious so I do see the value in being able to do more training in less time. However if it's hard to schedule them, or you can't schedule them too far out, or there are other things that are a pain, it may not be worth it.

Also, last I remember seeing the transferrable memberships with private training had become more valuable and expensive. I should have snagged one when they were $1000. Does that still hold true? $5K is a lot for private training and I likely won't use the +9 part of it but may be worth having in the future. Membership prices never get any cheaper so if I'm going to upgrade, no sense continuing to wait. Are there any other/better avenues for upgrading to private training I haven't thought of?
Answers in bold.

Private training is worth it. There isn't much of a downside.

Last edited by DRM6000; 06-08-2021 at 9:11 AM.. Reason: Grammar
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  #13006  
Old 06-07-2021, 9:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kate View Post
In my experience, it is quite hard to coordinate MY schedule and their availability. You call and say I want the 4DDHG curriculum, let's say, in 3 days, starting on 14 September. Them: Nope, that is not available. Me: OK, when is the next Weekend I can do that? Them: Nope. You tell me a date, I tell you Yes/No.

And, they schedule only so far out.

Perhaps it has gotten better. Although, I suspect with more members who can do Private classes, things have gotten tougher. I did not even try for a private class this past year...

Katie
My experience was kinda the opposite. Dani gave me the available days and dates she could do.
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  #13007  
Old 06-07-2021, 10:09 PM
Kate Kate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRM6000 View Post
My experience was kinda the opposite. Dani gave me the available days and dates she could do.
It was so hard, I have not tried in a long time. It sounds like they have a more efficient process now. THAT is very good.

Thanks for the information!

Katie
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  #13008  
Old 06-08-2021, 11:59 AM
LRG LRG is offline
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Thanks so much for the excellent and detailed replies, Muzz and DRM6000! I know writing long responses like that takes time and appreciate it.

The answers are what I was hoping for for all the questions; looks like the private training would be a great fit for me.

The more individual attention crossed my mind but DRM6000's comments on it made me realize how helpful that would be for me. I do pretty well in the classes and don't usually get much attention from the staff as they're normally chasing after the lowest denominators that are having trouble pointing the right end of the gun downrange, lost, etc. The few times they've really tried and given me feedback it's really helped, so I'd love to get that throughout a whole class. I feel like that could help me take things up a notch.

I've gotten some unbelievable value out of my $20 EBay Diamond membership, but seems the time has come to give the good Dr. a little extra lunch money with a membership upgrade. Although Knight isn't cheap, it won't take too many days of 1:1 training to feel like the cost is recouped.
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  #13009  
Old 06-08-2021, 6:40 PM
sofakingwetodded sofakingwetodded is offline
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Any knights out there willing to show a picture of their shield and sword? The informercial page seems to be showing a rendering.
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  #13010  
Old 06-09-2021, 6:46 AM
sofakingwetodded sofakingwetodded is offline
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Anyone going to be training this coming weekend? I'm doing a 4-day 6/11. would be nice to meet some of you
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  #13011  
Old 06-09-2021, 8:19 PM
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I just took the 1911 Armorers course today. The new gunsmith Brian, knows his stuff and seems like a great guy too. It will be a few months until the shop at FS is back up to 100%. A lot of services are not happening right now, like undercutting the trigger guard on Glocks. They’re concentrating on repairs of student guns it seems. That laser engraver is set up in the classroom for you to witness it in action. The light it gives off made me wonder if I should be wearing welding goggles. That thing can make an artist out of anybody.

Gotta add: The pro shop had some .44 Automag rounds for sale. I had never seen them before and they let me fondle them.

Last edited by Muzz; 06-09-2021 at 8:52 PM.. Reason: Add info.
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  #13012  
Old 06-10-2021, 5:02 PM
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Yea, that guy operating the laser should put the protective shield down while it's burning away.
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  #13013  
Old 06-11-2021, 5:39 PM
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Is there possibility that the old course round counts would come back when ammo prices decline? Signed up for SB in December.
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  #13014  
Old 06-11-2021, 7:02 PM
Muzz Muzz is offline
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Ya kidding’? They’ll up the round counts as soon as the ammo bunker squeals that they’re not making their 1000% profit.
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  #13015  
Old 06-11-2021, 7:51 PM
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The Ammo Bunker won’t make a single red cent from me. Every time I visit my daughter in Henderson, we bring 22 lbs of ammo whether we’re going to FS or not. That’s only when we fly in.
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  #13016  
Old 06-13-2021, 6:16 PM
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No plans to change round counts until availability stabilizes both on the price and mass availability side.
Honestly, I doubt it'll happen this year
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  #13017  
Old 06-14-2021, 2:12 PM
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Spring Mountain Pass between Front Sight and Vegas is closed due to wildfire*

FS students staying in Vegas better make other arrangements.

* someone shooting steel core ammo in the desert started the fire supposedly

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Last edited by beanz2; 06-14-2021 at 2:21 PM..
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