HMF primers-made in Russia: anyone have any recent experience w these?

[Strafer]

I recently picked up some small pistol primers made in Russia. Made by HMF, they appear to be new old stock. See attached pictures.

Anyone have any recent experience w these?

I plan to use a few primers from each box of 1000 to do some test batches and see if there are any issues.

Other than a visual inspection (they appear like new to me) and doing some sample batches of reloads, any other tips to check them?

Not sure it matters, but my load is:
380acp with 3.4 gr of W231 and 100gr X-treme RNFPs. They run about 850 fps out of my sig p238.

Thanks in advance,
Strafer



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[whutsup40]

Never seen them before!!

[jsanch03]

Ahhh yes the heavy metal free Murom primer. I bought 5k of these for $10 per 1k last year! The biggest thing about these primers is their shelf life. Check the date of manufacturer if it’s within 10 years more then likely you wouldn’t have to tweak your load. I however, so happened to buy the primers that had been made over 15 years ago but at $10 per 1k I wasn’t going to complain.

What worked for me aside from doing some research online was loading my 9mm a little hotter then usual for consistent burn and I had to alternate the flash hole.

Some argue against doing anything to the flash holes because of primer setback or excessive pressure. If you were to look at a 9mm case marked with an NT on it it stands for non toxic and is loaded with some form of metal free primer. You’ll also notice that the NT marked case has a slightly larger flash hole then standard cases with standard primers. What I did was opened up the flash hole to match the NT flash hole then used a Lyman flash hole debuting tool to create a nice concentric funnel. This in theory allows for a more consistent primer flash before the compound ignites the powder. Some rifle shooters do this to their match brass. If you’re really interested I can upload pictures of the altered brass on Wednesday. Other then having to alternate the brass those primers will go bang and work. It will be a pain to drill and deburr the flash holes but I did it to 1k cases and used them for all 5k murom primers I had.

[Strafer]

Originally Posted by jsanch03

Ahhh yes the heavy metal free Murom primer. I bought 5k of these for $10 per 1k last year! The biggest thing about these primers is their shelf life. Check the date of manufacturer if it’s within 10 years more then likely you wouldn’t have to tweak your load. I however, so happened to buy the primers that had been made over 15 years ago but at $10 per 1k I wasn’t going to complain.



What worked for me aside from doing some research online was loading my 9mm a little hotter then usual for consistent burn and I had to alternate the flash hole.



Some argue against doing anything to the flash holes because of primer setback or excessive pressure. If you were to look at a 9mm case marked with an NT on it it stands for non toxic and is loaded with some form of metal free primer. You’ll also notice that the NT marked case has a slightly larger flash hole then standard cases with standard primers. What I did was opened up the flash hole to match the NT flash hole then used a Lyman flash hole debuting tool to create a nice concentric funnel. This in theory allows for a more consistent primer flash before the compound ignites the powder. Some rifle shooters do this to their match brass. If you’re really interested I can upload pictures of the altered brass on Wednesday. Other then having to alternate the brass those primers will go bang and work. It will be a pain to drill and deburr the flash holes but I did it to 1k cases and used them for all 5k murom primers I had.

Thanks for the input. I alter the flashholes of my precision 223 and 22-250 cases, but never had to do it for pistol cases.

Do the heavy-metal-free primers burn at a lower temperature or slower burn rate or something?

The back of the box says 10-03. Hoping that means March of 2010 and not October of 2003 because I definitely did not pay 10 bucks a box, lol.

Anyway, thanks for the fast response.

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[ptmn]

I have a what I think are the same leadfree primers. Mine are packaged in PMC boxes that say made in Russia. They shot ok. Didn't notice any felt difference with same loads using standard primers. I only used them for 380, 9mm and the dreaded small primer 45 ACP.

I did have a small amount of misfires with a batch of 380. I think it was 2 or 3 rounds out of a couple hundred. One worked after rechambering and firing again, the others were dead no matter how many primer hits.

Leadfree primers are scarce, so if I had the chance I'd buy them again.

[sofbak]

HMF, Murom, Wolf, and Tula all use that same part number for those primers-KVB-9E. I think the E is for lead free.

I tried some Tula labeled large pistol primers a few years back and had about a 20% failure to fire rate. Running them through a DA/SA sig p220, I got them to fire on the second attempt. Here is my thread on the subject:

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...d.php?t=744064

Be sure they are fully seated in your case. That seemed to be the consensus on my 20% failure rate.

[LMan57]

I have never tried them or ever seen them where can I get some to try out?

[Strafer]

Thanks for the responses, guys!

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[Cowboy T]

Murom primers are good stuff and last a long time. Go ahead and use 'em; you should be just fine.

[jsanch03]

From what I have read the compound does not burn as hot as standard primers. The only issue that I had was 1 in maybe 50 shots fired had a considerable difference in felt recoil meaning they felt weaker then other shots. Again, that was my experience with an old lot. Load some up and see how they shoot. If you don’t have to alter any cases then you really scored because altering cases specially several hundred takes up quite a bit of time.

As far as primer seating, if you’re loading on a Dillon you should encounter any seating depth issues. I’m curious how these primers work out for you. I look forward to an after action report!


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[Sheldon]

I bought a bunch not too long back and I am getting hangfires with the ones I have loaded up. I dont know how old they are but that is the same exact packaging. I dont know if it is just that box or all of them. Will have to grab some from different sleeves and see if they all have same issue.

[M1NM]

Originally Posted by sofbak

...... I think the E is for lead free..

The heavy metal free refers to mercury not lead. As in Fulminate of Mercury that made up the old corrosive primers.

[sofbak]

I don't think so, the brick of Tula that I bought said "lead free". This article/test report from the DOD seems to back that up:

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...-primer-tests/


Note key findings of that test on lead-free primers:

Key Findings of the WSTIAC Primer Study Were:
1. Lead-Free primers suffered from significant delays in ignition.

2. Lead-Free large rifle primers had a “a much larger variation in peak blast pressure” than did lead-based large rifle primers.

3. Field tests showed 7.62×51 rounds loaded with lead-free primers to be less accurate than rounds loaded with lead-based primers.

4. So-called “match-grade” primers were NOT always more consistent in pressure than standard primers.

[jsanch03]

You might have to zoom in a little to see the enlarged flash hole and debur. I still have about 1k cases saved since it took so much effort to alter them and just in case I come across those primers again.


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[Strafer]

Originally Posted by jsanch03

You might have to zoom in a little to see the enlarged flash hole and debur. I still have about 1k cases saved since it took so much effort to alter them and just in case I come across those primers again.


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Ah, cool! Thanks for sharing that. I will see how it goes. I hope to report back here if I had to do flash holes after I've done some sample batches.
Thanks again!

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[Sheldon]

I can vouch for this.

1. Lead-Free primers suffered from significant delays in ignition.

[hambam105]

First time I've seen that package.

You can get away with primer inconsistencies with com bloc primer manufactures or with your assembly
techniques making 9mm Parabellum. But as for reloading .380acp and especially for .32acp for stone
reliability purposes, primer selection as well as proper primer fit is extremely critical.

[mrkubota]

I have a batch of the 50bmg Murom lead free primrrs. They've worked OK so far, but I do seat them well with the cupped seater stem first, then 'prime' them with the flat cup stem.
The primer cups are made from copper washed steel, so perhaps thats what affects their sensitivity.

[UrbanTarzan]

Hi All,
Im brand new here and found this site while doing research on these primers. I'll swing by the new members area and make my introduction and all that good stuff but i wanted to share my findings with these primers.
I picked up 3k of these at a show and had them on the shelf for a "rainy day" ... with the current state of primer availability id say its POURING!!!
I decided to save my CCI's and use these for my next run of target ammo.
I had been loading 9mm Berry's Plated 124gr RN with 4.0gr of HP38 and getting a consistent 1020fps with a COL of 1.15"
I took the first 5 rnds with these primers out to the Chrono and got an abysmal 680fps with a FTE every round .
My first thought was to switch powders to something that would fill the case more and give a more consistent burn, but i was all set up with the HP38 and i wanted more data before i broke down and switched powders.
The HP38 doesnt give much room for play so just upping the charge wasnt an option.
So i took some measurements and decided i could safely seat to a COL of 1.10" and still not be anywhere near touching powder and still be in the first half of the bullet wall.
So out to the chrono with the first 5 and i got 950fps ... better but not where i want to be at 1050ish .
Ok so i broke down and switched to HS6 , i ran my usual "Target load" of 6.0gr at COL 1.15" and got 700fps
So i upped the charge to 6.5gr
ETA: Just upping to 6.5gr produced 920fps
Then I proceeded to incrementally increase the seating depth on my first 5 rounds starting at 1.11"
My results were
1.11'" -- 1010fps
1.108" -- 1025fps
1.106" --- 1040fps
1.104"--- 1079fps
1.102" ----1091fps
I went with 1.106" and made 20 .. i had a Stddev of 8fps and an average v of 1042fps.
Very good consistency and not a single primer fail thru all my tests and to date.
My conclusion is that these burn a little cooler than US primers and need a full or near full case for good ignition of the powder. I feel good about them , i was able to stay well below max charge and stay within acceptable COL and still achieve the velocity i was looking for .
It may take some experimenting from what works with other US primers but keeping all this in mind you should be able to find a charge that works pretty well.

[CSACANNONEER]

I remember paying about 10 cents each for those (for 50bmg) about 15 years ago. They worked fine. In fact, I may still have some. I wish I had bought more back then.

[Strafer]

Update 20210316:

I whipped up a batch of 20 rounds of 380 ACP for my Sig P238 using the HMF primers, 3.4gr of W231, and 100gr Xtreme RNFP. I made no mods to primer flash hole or COAL (which for my Sig maxes at 0.960" and that's what I load to).

All 20 rounds went bang with no delayed ignition or any FTE.

I was shooting at a place where I could not setup my chrono, so I don't know their velocity compared to using regular primers. The rounds certainly didn't feel any different from my regular reloads though, and didn't show any accuracy difference IMO. I expect to chrono the HMF rounds at some point to see if there are any deltas in velocity compared to my regular reloads.

-Strafer

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[UrbanTarzan]

Originally Posted by Strafer

Update 20210316:

I whipped up a batch of 20 rounds of 380 ACP for my Sig P238 using the HMF primers, 3.4gr of W231, and 100gr Xtreme RNFP. I made no mods to primer flash hole or COAL (which for my Sig maxes at 0.960" and that's what I load to).

All 20 rounds went bang with no delayed ignition or any FTE.

I was shooting at a place where I could not setup my chrono, so I don't know their velocity compared to using regular primers. The rounds certainly didn't feel any different from my regular reloads though, and didn't show any accuracy difference IMO. I expect to chrono the HMF rounds at some point to see if there are any deltas in velocity compared to my regular reloads.

-Strafer

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I havent loaded any .380 with these primers yet but it did cross my mind that with the smaller case and similar charge weights to 9mm that they may funtion better or as expected in .380 .
3.4gr of w231 in a .380 case is substantially more full than 4.0gr in a 9mm case.

I shot about 200rnds with these primers over the weekend. I did have one stove pipe out of the 200 but I believe it was a limp wrist issue as im dealing with a severe pinched nerve in my back and have lost 80% of my strength in my shooting hand. I was shooting fast and just completed a tactical reload and i dont think i recovered my grip properly. The shot sounded and felt the same as all the others.

I will probably load some .380 this week and I'll post my results

[Strafer]

Update June 5, 2021

Chrono'd some 380 loads using the HMF primers. 100gr x-treme RNFP over 3.4gr W231 powder. COAL of 0.960". Shot out of my Sig P238 (2.7" barrel).

The same load from the same gun but using Win Match SPPs resulted in an average velocity of 853fps.

Using the HMF primers produced a lower average velocity of 796fps. A delta of 57fps.

There was not one failure to ignite. I have confidence in these primers.

I also chrono'd some 9mm loads using the HMF primers, 115gr x-treme FMJRN, and Titegroup and W231 powders (separately of course). These were fired out of my CZ P-01 w a 3.75" barrel. All loads w a COAL of 1.114" Again not a single failure to ignite.

Observed average velocities across 10 shots per load are listed below:

Titegroup:
4.1gr - 985 fps
4.2gr - 1071 fps
4.3gr - 1102 fps
4.4gr - 1098 fps
4.5gr - 1126 fps

W231:
4.5gr - 1004 fps
4.6gr - 1085 fps
4.7gr - 1036 fps
4.8gr - 1066 fps
4.9gr - 1101 fps

(not sure what happened w the lower velocities yet heavier powder charges).

Anyway, the primers performed well, IMO.











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['ol shooter]

I'd be afraid they would try to hack my loading press.

[Strafer]

Update

I have since used all 4,000 of the HMF primers that I purchased in March of this year. I used them to load up 9mm and 380acp.

I had less than 10 that didn't ignite, if that.

I would buy and use them again if the opportunity arose, especially if the price was right.

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